SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I love people. I love humanity. I can love my H in that way. I don't have to be head-over-heels "in love" with him. I don't think that feeling lasts, anyway. In a LTR, that initial limerent infatuation turns to a deeper connection, a knowing, an understanding, an appreciation (hopefully).

We have sex, although not often. My H says he loves me. I do sometimes say it back out of habit. It comes out as a sort of mumble. I don't know if he notices that. He hasn't said anything about it. I have told him that I don't think I will ever feel the same toward him again. He said he understands and accepts that. 🤷‍♀️

We do disagree and argue more, I think, but it's healthy discourse. Rather than me ranting and raving and him stonewalling, he voices his thoughts and feelings now so we can really discuss them. He's not as passive aggressive as he used to be. He doesn't deny his uncomfortable feelings as much. I try my best to not be mean or cruel. That's a hard one for me that I've always had a problem with, not something that has only come up since he cheated.

That being said, we get along most of the time. We have fun together as a family. He comforts me when I'm upset or having an anxiety attack. He's the first person I called when I started freaking out last week over something I read in the news. My dad was the 2nd person I called. I think we have a pretty typical LTR. Just don't ask me how I feel about him when I'm pmsing! 🤣

Our boys see commitment. They see us living a promise that we made to family. They see the daily ins aouts outs, struggles and triumphs of a LTR. They see us admitting when we have screwed up, apologizing, and making efforts to change. Hopefully, that will help them with their own relationships.

I, too, find it interesting that a lot of people assume that we must be miserable if we aren't in love with each other. I'm actually quite content, living my best life, a life I couldn't live if I became a divorced mother.

Coco and Prissy, you said it really well. I'm not miserable by any means. We do argue from time to time and I do have my sad/angry days, but not as many as when I first found out. I don't feel like we're modeling anything bad for our son at all.

Love didn't stop him from cheating. He had extremely immature views of love. Thought it came with constant thrills, constant sex, etc. This has been a big wakeup call for him, I think. On my side, I accepted less because I loved him. Because I thought when our son was older, finances were better, etc., things would just work out and we'd get back to our early relationship years. So a wakeup call for me as well.

(Not suggesting that affairs was a good thing for our marriage because really, he killed our marriage. All of this could have been resolved without all of the hurt and lies, and honestly it made our marriage shitty during the affairs.)

Some may say I'm lowering my standards or settling, and I don't agree. My standards are now higher than ever. He is now better than ever (though he still has work to do). I will never again settle for less than from him, and can now comfortably say I can walk away should he revert back to his affair days. Love won't hold me back.

I'm actually quite content, living my best life, a life I couldn't live if I became a divorced mother.

Sums it up nicely.....

At this point in my life, the only reason I will stay is if she doesn't cheat.

I think it's OK to question something like staying for the kids once, on the basis of, 'Are you aware that _____?' I don't mean to argue with another person's decision, but I do think it's OK to make sure someone is aware of as many relevant factors as possible.

I think it's also OK to question in terms of, 'Are you sure that's enough for you?'

And I think it's OK to ask questions out of curiosity.

Above all, though, I think it's important to do what you are doing, landclark - DF - coco - others, in asking yourself why you're staying and being honest about the answers, and I agree that you don't need to defend your answers.

*****

...I know these examples are all about me and are somewhat selfish or self serving, but I feel like after what he's done, I am allowed to be a little self serving. I am allowed to consider what I am getting out of the relationship.

For a relationship like M, I think it's always appropriate to have selfish reasons for staying in the M.

I think human beings have to both give and get. I just don't see staying in an M with someone who doesn't give me enough of what I want and doesn't want enough of what I want to give.

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:21 AM, June 8th (Monday)]

I stayed because for 23 yrs he was the perfect husband. I stayed because I have now been with him almost 26 yrs and our lives are completely intertwined with each other and neither one of us can see or imagine our lives without one another. I stayed with him for all the wonderful things he did right and forgave the one thing he did wrong.

We don't have kids so that was never a factor.

I couldn't see his AP taking over my life and neither could he. She was merely a symptom of a bigger problem that he and I worked through together.

Of course there is more, and I know these examples are all about me and are somewhat selfish or self serving

I don't know that anyone, WS or BS would ever choose to stay if the reasons were not self-serving. I can't really think of any reason at all that doesn't have a self-serving element to it.

When we get married, even those of us who were truly in love with our spouse -- we wanted to do that because we wanted to be with them, we wanted to feel that way with them, we want to share our life with them.

And, honestly I think for most of us who have gone through different phases towards reconciliation, the reasons change or evolve over time.

My early reason is it seemed like I should not walk away from such a long and mostly successful marriage without giving it some time to try to get to a different place, to give it a last shot sort of thing. Today, it's because I have a different perspective of what the problems were, and none of them (other than the affair) were big enough that they would ever begin to overshadow the good. I have a deeper appreciation of the person I married and all the things he brings to the table as a husband, partner, coparent, best friend, etc. I love him, maturely and intentionally and he does the same. But between reason #1 to now there have been lots of other reasons that got us to the next reason or stage.

We are the ones who have to live with what we choose, and most often we choose things for reasons we benefit from. When you see BS who are trying and trying and getting nothing in return that's when you have to ask yourself if that particular BS might need to re-evaluate what they need to heal in order to get out of this abusive cycle. So, in other words, I think you have to get curious and concerned if the person doesn't have any self serving reasons.

2 - I am in my mid-40s, and frankly don't want to date again. I didn't like it before, and know I would hate it even more now. I have no interest in starting over with somebody new. I need to lose weight, but don't want to have to lose weight for the sake of worrying about attracting somebody else. I don't want the insecurities with somebody new. I am still getting good sex, I know it's safe sex, and it's not something I want to have to worry about with somebody else. This does kind of tie into the kid thing in that I also have no interest in introducing another man into his life. So sure, I am sure I could ultimately find somebody else, but that's a lot of work I don't want to have to do.

Is #2 an insecurity thing? The reason why I am asking is so many women in their 40s fear being alone, dating, body images, fear of being too old.... as if being 40 has an expiration date. I think this in itself is something you need to work on for yourself. The mindset should be - if I leave tomorrow I will be fine. Alone or with someone else.

❤️ Yourself always!

The fears in your mind have no power unless you give them power. Don’t let fear be stronger than courage

From one woman in her 40s that did divorce with one kid

[This message edited by CaliforniaNative at 1:53 PM, June 8th (Monday)]

Is #2 an insecurity thing?

Not really, no, it's just not something I have any interest in doing again.

The mindset should be - if I leave tomorrow I will be fine

That is my mindset.

Im a BS we have reconciled, but with a man’s perspective.

I looked at your list and the vast majority reflects my situation as well. The finances. My insecurity if I was to have to begin a new relationship (although a lot of this is a result of her affair). How good of a mother she is, how sweet she can be. How helpful she is and what a huge contribution she makes to our family (financially and otherwise). We now seem to ‘ring-fence’ her affair and the things that it directly touched and otherwise our marriage is strong now. She knows the impact of her affair on me and is as remorseful as I want her to be.

While I still struggle with aspects of her affair Ive never regretted reconciling. Although I would also say that my love for her, which never diminished is also a big factor.

Reece

My reason for staying after D-Day was because I loved him. The reason I stayed after D-Day 2 was for the kids then on False R I had no reason except fear. Currently we are IHS and dealing with co-parenting during a pandemic.

Kids were a strong reason, but now that I see that STBX uses the kids to get to me I realized I should have left a long time ago.

My personal reasons include your #7. We had just gotten M'd and had only started living together after returning from our honeymoon. We had no M history to look back on. I had hopes and dreams. We were just starting out.

At the time, I thought OW1 had been a bad influence on WH, an intentional distraction to WH, but I wasn't going to continue in a relationship with WH with OW1 being available as a physical distraction (double betrayal) or as a confidant influencing his behavior or thoughts or feelings. So, at the time, I thought NC would bring back the WH I had dated and fell in love with.

Along these lines, I also didn't want OW1 to "win". She didn't want my lifestyle or WH. She just wanted to cause trouble and break us up. There are other things I found out a few years later from people that had been silent during that time that pointed to OW1 doing this intentionally. My EXBF (the one that assaulted me) was a stalker & bunny boiler type. He was pulling crap at college and in the friend group. Even had another student point blank challenge EXBF one of the times he was trying to intimidate me in a common area at college. Found out EXBF had planned to crash the wedding ceremony and try to ruin it. One of the attending guests was going to be an accomplice.

So, I didn't want OW1 to "win" by breaking us up. I wanted to try. WH did contact her to break it off with her quickly. But he was struggling with understanding that going to anything to do with that social group, especially if the event was held at her house , was a big, fat NO. No, you're not going to try to show me that you're just friends. Loyalty to me is not being near her in any way, even across the room to notice her (and roll your eyes that you can't go over to her because you're with your "insecure ball & chain").

Now, I don't know just yet. WH's been trying to be the H he hasn't been to me all of these years. I have physical and health issues that for me work out better to stay and see how WH does for now. And the youngest is getting ready to start college. I'd like her to not have major upsets right now. I'd like her on her feet in a career before considering living separately (or whatever I decide). I'm getting my ducks in a row. I don't believe I would ever again M. If I become single again, I might have relationships, but never cohabitate or comingle finances or property again.

My life, my shoes.

WH and OW#3(?) planned a future together including HER mothering Marriage son. I could see her evil influence on my baby. No, I wouldn’t risk it. It took my 8 years to have him. Fuck no.

WH wouldn’t make our son the priority he deserves to be, so nope.

Fuck that

20yrsagoBS, yeah, the first OW said she should lovingly accept my son as her own. Like I would have let her anywhere near him! Now I’ll make damn sure she never gets that chance. No way.

[This message edited by landclark at 6:51 PM, June 8th (Monday)]

Interesting topic. I asked my dad why he stayed.

1. Financial....she would take half of his military retirement.

2. He feared she would turn all the grandkids against him (she would)

But after she died suddenly about 15 years, later, he found a new lady and they have been awesome for 12 years.

I just don't see staying in an M with someone who doesn't give me enough of what I want and doesn't want enough of what I want to give.

This is perfect. I hear and read so much about how selfish and wrong it is to be with someone because of what they do for you. You should just love them. To me, that seems very CoD.

If you want to be part of my life, you damn well better bring something positive to the table. You also need to accept and appreciate what I bring. If I'm not enough, walk away. If all you plan to do is sit around and say, "I love you," walk away.

There is give and take in healthy relationships. It's not 50/50. IMO, it's usually 80/20, switching between who is giving and who is taking depending on the current circumstances.

I've been thinking more about arguing. I think we probably argue less now because I just don't care much anymore. When I get annoyed or pissed at somethinghe says or does I walk away, take some deep breaths, maybe rant to a friend or on here for a bit. I don't bother trying to get him to see the error of his ways anymore. It's stupid, little stuff that doesn't matter in the big scheme of things.

We had a really good, real discussion about current events the other day. We shared our own thoughts, feelings, and opinions without getting upset. It was amazing! He actually engaged in discourse with me! I saw growth in him and an acknowledgment and acceptance that not everything is the way he sees it. There are other valid perspectives. That is huge for him!

I did note that it wasn't lost on me that, yet again, he had dismissed me when I tried to talk to him about these issues months and years ago, but now that others were saying it, he believes it to be true. He, again, tried to say it was because of my delivery. I told him that maybe he needed to look at why he rejects only my delivery. Maybe his reaction to me is more about him and his biases than it is about how I say something. IOW, if I weren't his wife, or if I were male, would he be more inclined to consider what I say? Anyway, that's a tangent.

I think it's OK to question something like staying for the kids once, on the basis of, 'Are you aware that _____?'...

I think it's also OK to question in terms of, 'Are you sure that's enough for you?'

I want to address this. My answer is, yes and no. When you ask if someone is aware of some perceived consequence, it can come across as an assumption that you know more or better, or the other person is ignorant. I think it's best to come from a place of assuming the person has considered all the important and relevant factors.

I also think it depends somewhat on the individual situation. Asking if something is enough once might be fine. Once you get an answer, maybe let it go. Again, there's a difference between asking if one is ok with something vs. telling someone that their choice is wrong and harmful, especially if you keep pushing it.

I'm sure I'm guilty of doing this. I'll have to check myself more.

I have very strong opinions about D when children are involved. I know that some people are able to D and maintain a positive family structure and influence on their children. I know that there are many successful single parents. I know that, sometimes, D is what is best for the children. However, I don't think that D is just as valid as staying together when it comes to the children. IMO, D is the last resort when children are involved.

Maybe I'm biased because I was a child of a broken family, ultimately, because my mother was a cheater. My childhood was not pleasant. We struggled even though both my parents were college educated, Masters and PhD level, and had professions. I suffered greatly emotionally from the loss of my dad being in the home on a daily basis. I spent years as a child thinking my dad left because I broke his glasses when that never even happened.

This all happened during the women's lib movement. Women were being told they didn't have stay in bad Ms anymore. They could get good jobs and support themselves and their children. They didn't need a man. Children didn't really need fathers. Most of that was a lie, at least then.

I'm a feminist. I'm all about choice and women being free from the bondage of male domination. However, I absolutely disagree with the idea that single parenthood is just as good as a two parent, intact family. I absolutely disagree with the idea that children don't need fathers. I'm not saying that all children are doomed if they don't have those things. I'm saying that it is best to do everything possible to keep the family intact for the children. I'm not going to argue about this. Just stating my opinion. 🙂

[This message edited by cocoplus5nuts at 9:06 AM, June 14th (Sunday)]

Anyway, that's a tangent.

I think you bring up an interested topic for discussion though. When I first got together with my WH, we had lots of deep discussions on life, parenting, politics, religion, etc. Never fighting, not always agreeing, but good discussions. That certainly had gone away over the last several years. He was very dismissive of me, and I honestly I felt like his views on life had somehow completely changed and were opposite of mine where before we had a lot of similarities. Now since DDAY, more so just recently, we're back to being able to have good discussions. It makes me wonder if he either was changing his beliefs based on whatever woman he was talking with at the time, or if he was just trying to get me to shutup. I realize if he was changing for a woman, he could also be changing for me, but this seems more like when we first got together, and he also initiates discussions now.

I also think it depends somewhat on the individual situation. Asking if something is enough once might be fine. Once you get an answer, maybe let it go. Again, there's a difference between asking if one is ok with something vs. telling someone that their choice is wrong and harmful, especially if you keep pushing it.

Yes, exactly. I am sure I am also guilty of this and need to check myself more. Especially since it recently happened to me and I see first hand how annoying it is.

When you ask if someone is aware of some perceived consequence, it can come across as an assumption that you know more or better, or the other person is ignorant. I think it's best to come from a place of assuming the person has considered all the important and relevant factors.

I agree. Very good point. It's really hard to communicate tone of voice on the web, but if one wants to raise an issue for another person to consider, one has to choose words very carefully.

On a more humorous note, it looks like autocorrect struck again, coco. I don't think you mean 'women's library.' I note it because we had just returned from almost 2 years overseas with a newborn when consciousness-raising groups were in fashion. Not fun for me. Instructive, but not fun. I can't believe I took our 4month old to a graduate seminar once because we had conflicting commitments....

Old timer here.

Initially I chose to give R a go because I loved him, and was horribly CoD.

I also chose to give it a go, because we were at the beginning of the recession, and my H was out of work. I would have had to pay not only CS but SS should we have D'd right then, and I honestly don't know that he would have tried to find work at that point d/t his issues and depression.

However repeated disrespect to me, and breaking NC lead me to decide that CS and SS wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, what would be was my kids seeing me be a doormat and allowing him to treat me with disrespect. This is when I found my voice, and things really truly changed. I demanded better, and fortunately got better.