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My wife just really isn't interested in working hard on our M.
I've decided on divorce and an trying to minimize the impact on the kids (5 and 8) and get an amicable and hopefully favorable agreement out of my WW. Do any of you have strategies or suggestions to achieve these goals?
Is there a good way to prevent the divorce becoming contested?
Does it make sense to try to send the kids to Grandma's house or something for a week and get things figured out and settled that way?

[This message restored by Webmaster at 4:31 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:08 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

At the beginning of the process, my XWW didn’t want me to have the house too. I think that she thought that our 3 kids would prefer staying with me if I had the family home. It was clear that she couldn’t afford it but I could. My attorney and her attorney made it clear to XWW that legally she couldn’t prevent me from buying her out if she couldn’t afford to buy me out.

TIF, have you gotten a lawyer consult for yourself?

I actually think it's a good idea to send the kids to grandma's for a week while you try to work through it with your STBX. If she won't play fair, have your own lawyer on stand by.

Yeah I talked to a lawyer and I came up with a financial strategy to maximize my net worth if it gets contested.
We would still need to figure out custody and a parenting plan. STBX would need to find a place to live. We need to figure out if I can give her less liquid and more alimony or if I have to buy her out straight up with a cash out refinance or extra retirement split.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 4:31 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:08 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

It's an emotional/personal strategy to prevent my STBX from becoming combative.

Ultimately, you know your STBX better than any of us, and you need that knowledge to strategize based on how she typically reacts in order to try to stay one step ahead.

I had to do that with Xhole because I wanted to keep it uncontested. In order to work the game to my favor, I listed the assets I knew, without doubt, that he wanted. For the most part, I did not care about those items so I made a big "gesture" about him getting that stuff. May have thrown in commentary about what a loss it was for me to feed his need to "win." I also took a bigger amount of debt for the same reason - to make him think he was "winning." All in all, it worked and I ultimately got what I really wanted, the house and all equity.

So, my point here is this. Figure out a strategy that makes her think she is "winning" the battle. Some people with NPD tendencies won't settle for anything less. That means playing a big game to let her think she has beaten you down and won the day, and being a gracious "loser." It all feeds their ego and need to win.

After it's all done, THEN you can laugh to yourself about how you played your hand. In my case, had I NOT made Xhole feel like he got the better deal, he would have made the D a nightmare. Getting it done quickly was also a big goal of mine, which meant not fighting for little inconsequential crap.

To be clear, I'm not talking about denying her what she is legally entitled to, but rather who ends up with what in the final shuffle with you getting what you (realistically) want out of it.

The typical negotiation tactic of asking for the moon and working down would not have worked with Xhole. I had to devise my strategy based on how I knew he would react. Going hard ball would have failed as well. This is why I say your knowledge of her is the key to your own strategy.

I would agree with Phoenix that you know her best. How do you think she will react?

Does she know you are going to file? I would think the best way is to approach her and say you are going to file for D and you hope to make it as easy on yourselves as you can and you would like to discuss splitting the finances and custody. Start off with things you think are easy to agree to, i.e. 50/50 custody. Don't start off with too many details, i.e. which days or drop off times, etc. Also, ask her what she would like a lot. You don't have to agree. If you think she needs some time to consider, just ask her if you guys can discuss it in a few days.

If the house is a major issue for her, set it aside for now. Propose that you have a valuation done (not by a realtor though) and use that as the basis. From there, you subtract what you owe on the house and half of that is her equity.

If she is combative record all. Check your state laws but you do NOT want to be accused of something you did not do.

Yeah I talked to a lawyer and I came up with a financial strategy to maximize my net worth if it gets contested.

Remember that your WW will also talk to a lawyer and come up with a strategy to maximize what she'd get in a divorce as well. Treat it like a business deal, try to keep your emotions out of it (very hard sometimes, I know), and know going into it what your absolute line in the sand is.

As far as your kids go - if you think the discussions with your WW are going to turn into loud arguments or fighting, then it might be better for the kids to go to their grandparents. Just be careful that the kids don't start thinking that sending them away had anything to do with why their parents are divorcing.

This0is0Fine,

Sorry to see that D is the endgame here. I know it’s been a long painful road. Have you told your WW that you are done and are for sure going to file for D, or are you just going to spring it on her? If you haven’t told her, and you sit down and calmly discuss where you’re going and why, it might help smooth the process and ultimately get you more of what you want. Good luck

I would also caution against believing that you have some control over her reaction, willingness to compromise and eventually the outcome of your settlement.

I have spent way too much time trying to figure out the best way for me act or best way for me to say whatever in an effort to impact my WHs behavior and willingness to give me what I want in our divorce.

My therapist has really challenged me on this. You can be smart and not be combative or fuel the fires without feeling like it’s your responsibility to make her be willing to work with you.

I just feel like so many BS have spent a lot of time tip toeing around their WS and it’s not a healthy dynamic during a divorce. I would just ask her how she wants to handle it - you can try talking about it or do you just want your attornies to handle it.

I had to deal with an NPD cheater, and it was a tightrope walk. The hardest part was limiting my direct communication with him when I was still feeling emotionally run ragged and vulnerable.

Try to run all communication possible through your attorney. I know with kids, that can be tough, but I know there are apps that can help you sort that stuff out. The fewer emotions you can show your STBX, the better off you are.

I had a lot of information about my ex’s shenanigans from a PI and my own investigations. The less my ex knew about what I had, the better, although he was aware that I was holding some stuff close to my chest. He also didn’t want his financials scrutinized too closely, so that gave me some leverage.

Another thing that really helped me was that I had the best divorce lawyer in my area that none of the other lawyers wanted to go against in court. I found mine through a friend who used to clerk for one of the county’s family court judges, so she knew everyone’s reputations.

And just an aside, my NPD ex treated his own attorney like crap, and I think that ended up helping me as well 😂. He called her a moron in our only joint negotiation session. She wasn’t a moron at all.

This0is0Fine, please don’t be offended in what I am going to say. People today have become so result oriented that they look at a problem and decide on a solution. A lot of people I know have forgotten how to investigate and be patient. I do not know from your post if this has been going on for years or just recently. Please try not to be rash. Is there a problem in intimacy or attention, infidelity, or the marriage is just becoming routine and stale? How hard is working hard to you. Is your standard in working hard the same as hers? Have you tried marriage counseling?

There are many couples who regretted their divorce because they have not foreseen the other problems that come out of it. Some of them could not find someone to love them as the original spouse and thought they could have continued to work on their marriage. You can also look at weekend marriage seminars like “A Weekend to Remember.”

She refused to do work unless asked. She doesn't finish the assigned reading for MC. She never changed jobs. She never really went NC. She pines for OM and for closure that she wasn't just thrown away, that the affair did have meaning. She is just so far off the reconciliation page and I have given her months to figure it out.
I told her I worry about her repeating. She said she couldn't promise it wouldn't happen again. As though she is not completely in control of herself. I told her I could easily promise that I would never cheat on her. She says I can't know the future with certainty.
Right now everything between us is fine. I just am unwilling to carry this risk forward.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 4:31 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:09 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

Sorry to hear that there was an affair. That changes everything and that gives your post a different context. Nothing will happen if she is unrepentant. I would hire a private detective to gather evidence. It is not an outrageous idea, many have used it. It is not for destroying her but as a defense when she has tricks up her sleeves. She might be a narc who will twist things around against you, ending up in he said vs. she said. Consider building your team first, lawyer, financial experts, adviser, before you even mention anything to her.

WheresMyBlanket, in case you didn't know, there are 48 pages in JFO where TIF was working through this before getting to this point.

I did not. Thank you for pointing that out. I was also betrayed a long time ago, just wanted to help. I guess I'm not. Goodbye.

Please don't leave, WheresMyBlanket. Stay and help.

Don't worry I'm not leaving permanently and you did not offend me. I only meant goodbye for now and I need to chill out, quite humbled.

It's an emotional/personal strategy to prevent my STBX from becoming combative.

Oh, TiF! You couldn't stop her from engaging in the A. You couldn't make her quit her job. You couldn't make her take a polygraph. You couldn't make her R. You can't even make her guarantee that she won't cheat again. Of course you will not be able to prevent her from becoming combative. You can only mitigate the fall out by sending your kids away for a bit while you have this uncomfortable conversation.

Are you prepared for her to cycle through anger, tears, threats, and pulling out all of the stops to get you to not D her aside from, you know, actually doing the work of R? Are you prepared to hear every promise she can think of that she has no intention of keeping? How will you stay strong while she pleads with you not to D her? Practice what you will say when she suddenly promises to quit her job and do the polygraph. Practice saying it's too late. Practice telling her she needs to stick to the issues at hand such as financials and custody. Tell her the papers are being served no matter what she does or says. IF she turns this around, she will do it even though she has been served and there is a court date but whatever you do, DO NOT back down on this otherwise you will be here months from now with the same issues.

It will be a kindness if she is able to put her ego kibble needs long enough to give D a fair consideration but up until now, she's fought for you only when divorce is on the table and never when you've graciously offered R to her. Don't expect this to be any different. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

I feel for you.

Our Family Laws are so heavily unbalanced in favour of the parent who gets custody of the children. Generally the mother.

My babies were 5,6&8 when WH was leaving us in 2003.

The family home was heavily mortgaged so had he proceeded with Divorce back then, we both would have been left penniless and homeless. Because of this fact he knew that I would have been granted custody as I had a full time job. But I would also inherit a large mortgage. His parents intervened and vowed to support me and their Grandchildren if he left. So he forced me to take him back.

You may have a legal battle on your hands if you wish to keep the house.

I have read here about many couples who are just waiting it out until the children are grown up. A lot like what I thought I was doing.

It never gets easier for the children but keeping them in an unhappy marriage is possible a terrible option.

A male friend of mine did get full custody of his three then aged, 2, 4 & 6. His WW left the State to be with AP.

He raised the children alone but did have to eventually sell the house as part of the financial settlement.