SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I have been lurking here for several months now and have been reading every post I can, but I have not been commenting. I just felt that I had no right to bring an opinion to bear unless I have shared my particular experience. I will try to be as brief as possible.

My life has been paradoxical in it’s facets since I can remember. I was cursed to attend a school which could be described as not on the wrong side of the tracks, but not quite on the right side either. It would suffice to say that I had very little in common with my piers. I did not play rugby and in my school that was sufficient to get you labelled as being gay and made it open season on you for every bully. I actually dreaded going to school and came home bloodied on many a day. I thus grew up pretty much a loner and save for a couple of people Never related to any of my piers.

On the other hand, I started flying aircraft at a very young age. I was all of 14 the first time I took of and landed a plane without hands on assistance. This brought me into contact with older people and moving in their circles as a kind of pier (I had their knowledge, but not their maturity). I never quite fit in anywhere in my formative years and to top this all off (and this brings me to how infidelity has impacted my life) my first serious girlfriend in university died, she was on life support after a motorcycle accident, declared brain-dead when I was informed. The tragedy was two-fold for me. My girl-friend (with whom getting engaged was discussed seriously) was about to taken off life-support, but the event that put her there had already taken her from me. She had been cheating on me with her ex and was on the way back from a party (where I later found out they had very publicly engaged in sexual acts) and she told me she had family matters to attend to when the accident occurred. This was my first brush with infidelity, but not my last by a long shot.

Moving forward a couple of years. I had completed my military service and dated a couple of women, nothing serious when I ran into another women I used to know in university. Ours was a whirl-wind romance and not even a year later we were married. I flew through a couple of promotions and was soon earning a huge salary in the IT industry. In 1995 we bought a huge house and tried to settle down, but her issues surface almost from the word go. She had borderline personality disorder and a huge problem with temper control. One night after being unsuccessful at dodging a huge glass flying ashtray and having my face turned to a bloody mess, I decided to put some space between us for a while. I took a contract in another city just to see if things can cool off. I have to state that even-though she constantly hit me and threw things at me I was very restrained and never got physical with her. After a couple of months apart, I visited my own home and that night in bed, she had new moves. She wanted things I didn’t even know existed and she definitely didn’t know about before. I was suspicious and my suspicions were soon confirmed. She had taken up with a lawyer from her place of employment. Well, that was that for me. I filed and after a particularly nasty divorce, took up my mantle as bachelor. We luckily did not have any children. That was my second brush with infidelity and also my second serious relationship.

Not long after and perhaps too soon I literally ran into the next woman in this sordid tale. She was a doctor at the local hospital. We didn’t get married, but soon moved in together. About a year after, she announced that she was pregnant. This was in 2000. I was for a brief moment, the happiest man on the face of the Earth and by brief, I mean all of 5 seconds. With her next breath she announced that she was getting an abortion. After we split up, because I could not be with someone who would kill my child, it came to me via mutual friends that she had to have the abortion because she wasn’t even sure if the child would have been the same race as we were. My third serious relationship and again it was broken by infidelity.

For years after that I figured that I didn’t fit in anywhere as I had felt during my formative years, I felt like a complete social failure because every woman I have ever wanted to start a family with had cheated on me and discarded me like just so much trash.

Which brings me to what brought me to this site. Years later, I met a woman and in my early 40s I became a father for the first time and just past my mid 40s again. I am now 50. I sensed something had been off with my wife for a while. I eventually cornered her without proof and she confessed to an EA with someone she had only met fleetingly. I am in IT and I was able to uncover all communications, deleted and existing. I have verified it never went to a PA and had ended last year in March, but it was a betrayal none the less. Let’s just say my trust levels are at zero. I verify everything. We are reconciling, but if I get as much as a whiff of any further betrayal, I would walk. I have started over so many times in my life that one more time would almost be the norm for me, save for the fact that we have children.

It has been my experience that all the women I have invested my heart into my entire life, despite me being a good provider and eventually in-spite of having been bullied at school, a military veteran who no-one would really like to bully or cross any more (not a push-over), has cheated on me, also despite the fact that they all knew a PA is an immediate deal-breaker and an EA is so close to the line as to leave skid-marks.

I guess my only questions are:

Am I just the guy women think they can walk over (beta-male) even-though I really am not?

Or

Do women think so little of men these days that cheating is almost a given?

Either way, I guess I just have to accept the reality of where I am. (Quick Edit for grammar, apologies)

Thank you all, this was more of a life rant and vent, not so much aimed at soliciting advice, but introducing you to where I come from should I ever comment here. You have already helped me by simply sharing your stories, thank you all.

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 11:45 AM, July 17th (Friday)]

Am I just the guy women think they can walk over (beta-male) even-though I really am not?

Or

Do women think so little of men these days that cheating is almost a given?

There's another possibility not listed in your question, but more likely: you have a bad picker. Your algorithm for selecting mates is broken.

3 for 3. That's more than just bad luck.

I wish you the best, but in my opinion you need to figure out why you choose the women you choose.

Thank you ButForTheGrace, I concede that your possibility although not mentioned in my post had been contemplated, but I really had no advanced glaring red flags in all three cases. I am going to postulate perhaps a fourth possibility. The absolute lack of luck, but all being said, you might be right and I just have a defect in my picker I failed to detect.

DV, everyone says there were no warning signs. That doesn't make it true. The first time Wife #1 hit you was a big, flashing red warning sign that you needed to GTFO before more abuse happened. You chose not to until she cheated. I'm betting if we received the full truth of these relationships, we'd see many red flags waving that you didn't see because when you have rose tinted glasses on, all the red flags just look like flags.

Get IC for yourself. Get a copy of "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover. I'm betting there are still areas of your life that could be improved upon by you working on setting boundaries and following through with consequences that don't involve you ghosting someone.

What is your current WW doing to win your trust? Has she figured out why she cheated? Is she in IC to address why she risked her marriage and family for an online A?

nekonamida, As always this board is filled with wisdom. As said I have been lurking for a very long time before posting anything and I have learned from the wisdom posted here.

I have already read No more Mr. Nice Guy. It was in fact one of the first things I did do when I started reading here and even before I joined.

To answer your question as to the current state of affairs, I have full transparency on all devices and social media. I have all the passwords and I know where she is every moment of the day as well as what activities she is engaged in.

She has agreed, no more male friends, FULL STOP.

She knows I'm serious, any transgression that even smells like infidelity and I am out the door.

In South-Africa, everything first-world is still basically shut down still because of our Communist Government's power trip based on the state of Emergency because of the pandemic, but IC for both of us is in the pipeline, but getting an appointment is close to impossible.

She has faced the consequence of full exposure of her actions and everyone knows that I am serious that this was a last chance action. I have no qualms walking away.

That being said, I do love her and she has been nothing but remorseful. She has given me all details and tears were shed by both of us.

My past experiences unfortunately rose to the surface again and I know I need some help, because I have a lot of anger and sadness bubbling just below the surface which I can control, but really feel needs some attention.

Thank you very much for your perspective.

Welcome. I like your tag. Truth does conquer all things, especially with regards to infidelity.

I have also had other experiences with infidelity. It seems rampant in our society for BOTH men and women. I believe this is based on our sense of entitlement, the idea that a lack of integrity is a cause for celebration and that compassion is seen as a weakness, not a strength in our society/culture. This is truly apparent when looking at the chaos surrounding Covid, and the statements and choices being made in our country. This, combined with our own issues and the character defects and lack of integrity of those we get close to, is the root cause of infidelity IMHO.

I guess my bottom line is that most of us will have to deal with a cheater in our lifetimes.The current statistics on infidelity vary, but the numbers are high. Therefore, I would think it would be unusual not to have dealt with infidelity during your adult life. However, I think that we can increase the odds of finding a healthy partner if WE are heathy. I think that if we get the help that we need to be better and stronger people, then we can see the patterns that cause us to make bad choices in our partners. If I look truthfully at my choices in partners, I can NOW see unhealthy patterns. I can see them due to the work I have done on myself. I chose my current FWS while actively abusing drugs and alcohol, because he was compassionate towards others and animals, because he had a good work ethic, we had physical chemistry and because he wanted ME (ego kibbles). I looked only at the positive and ignored the red flags: he was an addict, his compassion was overshadowed by a sense of entitled selfishness when things were tough for us, he was co-dependent (which I saw as proof of his LOVE for me), etc. I will say that ANY relationship between using addicts is hopeless as we are some fucked up humans, but my decision making was poor despite the chemical component. If I look back before alcohol was an issue, I still made bad choices. My picker was unhealthy. When DDAY happened, both my FWH and I went to IC and worked really hard to become stronger and better. We also went to MC to work on our marriage. Turns out we deal with issues like the old "oil and water' analogy, which I think would be clear to me at this point in my journey (again, after a ton of work on myself) and would affect my choice with regards to a partner today.

For now, I am keeping my options open. If this marriage does not end up working out, I think I will be able to choose a better partner in the future. I, like many of the posters here, saw the weaknesses in my partner that assisted in his decision to cheat after DDay. Hindsight is truly a bitch.

My advice for you is to go to IC and begin to "fix your picker". Although that will help you find healthy partners, there are no guarantees. Relationships are always a gamble.

Sorry, posted this BEFORE I saw your other post re: the difficulty of finding IC where you live. I stand by the need for it though.

Notmine, thank you for your insights and I am glad you find yourself on a healthier road. Yes, IC is in the pipeline.

My main issue has not been with chemical dependency, but in the spirit of full disclosure, I do suffer from intense depression and have for my entire adult life. I have had various divergent diagnosis, but the common consensus is that it an Affective depression caused or at least expressed because of trauma. I have been treated for this, but to this day not fully successfully, but it's managed.

This can indeed be a magnet near a compass as far as my picker is concerned.

Strength brother, talk to her but take no crap 💩.

IC for you as well, can’t hurt but could help as to why you seem to be attracted to women who end up hurting you.

One day at a time

Buffer

I think you should consider that those with bad pickers cannot see the red flags in those they meet, and in some cases, those red flags are actually a draw. It takes quite a bit of therapy to uncover the types of people that attract you, why their self-obsession is perceived as confidence, their drama-filled life thought of as bad luck, and their bending of the rules considered ingenuity. My IC said, "Those with bad pickers find the perfect counter to their own interpersonal issues, two dysfunctions attracting."

This is a hard pill to swallow for many people. Can you see yourself as flawed without demeaning yourself? Can you use the flaws to lead a healthier life rather than to denigrate yourself even more in your own head? We can't fix something if we're too afraid to admit it is true.

In my opinion, many BS have bad pickers. Some don't. I absolutely did. Luckily I married a little later so had time to see my patterns. Others who marry young find it hard to admit because they only chose once. Given more time, they too could have made more poor choices like the both of us.

Can I ask, are you attracted to unstable women who are almost certain to hurt you and make you feel exactly as you did when you were young? That seems to be your pattern, right? I read somewhere that you will be given the same lesson to learn over and over until you learn it. It would be easy to say, "Trust no one." But the easy answer is usually not the best answer for obvious reasons. Consider this.

Maybe work on healing the hurts that made you feel so worthless when you were young so that you attract equally down to earth, drama free women who are not looking for a flashy marital ego boost but instead a mutually supportive love?

Fix the FOO, fix the picker.

I had to do the exact same thing.

Best wishes.

(This is true if you try to R also. You both need to work on your own FOO that brought you here, and then together you can build a new M.)

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 8:54 PM, August 20th (Thursday)]

I would definitely explore the type of woman you are attracted to and what you feel you can offer them...for instance being attracted to a woman who needs provision and likes to be cared for would be a trait that in the wrong woman means she will keep looking for that provision and validation in others.... sometimes the traits we like and that make us feel good actually give insight to the red flags. Like a KISA situation (Knight in shining armour) or all women who are fiercely independent and in someway emotionally unavailable. Often when we are hurt and find intimacy painful we find someone who is happy to avoid it on some level too. While both avoiding it opens up a void that sometimes leaves to wayward behaviour. And an inability to discuss or face it before its too late.

Definitely something to explore. I agree the domestic violence looks like it was a red flag but I bet there's some trait attractive to you which would give insight also to all the women...maybe not all had the same trait but I bet there's something.

Finally no blame on you at all.

Your first girlfriend passed and you didn't have to confront or deal with the conflict. The first wife when conflict happened you moved away returned then divorced when her infidelity was revealed thus not really facing it either. The doctor same conflict and you leave (understandably in both situations of course)

This is a big step for you as its the first time you've not cut and run (again all understandable) but it shows a pattern in you. Is it possible you are an avoider? Look at attachment styles. This also means conflict avoidance. And both contribute to unhealthy relationships. They Dont "cause cheating" but can add to the imbalance which puts the path in motion. And in addition.....avoidant attachment also often attracts and is attracted to fearful/anxious attachment....most dysfunctional attachment attracts another dysfunctional attachment. This may in part help to explain the pattern in your relationships but it may also give you insight how you can be healthier in a relationship to hopefully avoid further heartache.

It maybe off the mark but its well worth exploring because the previous traumas may have modeled you this way and with some work maybe you can become a secure attachment style. Which can only help your R. Or yourself going forward for the future in terms of finding a healthy relationship.

I've read a couple of your posts since you appeared I find them truly insightful and fascinating. So I've no doubt with some deep introspection and throwing ideas around you will find some clarity as to whats truly going on to help your personal growth.

I would definitely explore the type of woman you are attracted to and what you feel you can offer them...for instance being attracted to a woman who needs provision and likes to be cared for would be a trait that in the wrong woman means she will keep looking for that provision and validation in others.... sometimes the traits we like and that make us feel good actually give insight to the red flags. Like a KISA situation (Knight in shining armour) or all women who are fiercely independent and in someway emotionally unavailable. Often when we are hurt and find intimacy painful we find someone who is happy to avoid it on some level too. While both avoiding it opens up a void that sometimes leaves to wayward behaviour. And an inability to discuss or face it before its too late.

I very much agree with this assessment. It might be worth it to explore your family life in your formative years. I'm now doing it in IC and I've come to the conclusion that my family life has primed me to develop a faulty "picker". You see, I grew up in a rather emotionally cold home - my father was the sole breadwinner, working two jobs for much of my life and was pretty much absent from the picture (it's not an accusation, he is a good man with a golden heart, but I didn't get much of a chance to see him and interact with him while growing up). My mother has always been a somewhat domineering, narcissistic type, demanding and rather dismissive of my father. It didn't help that my father has always been conflict avoidant, bottling up stress and other emotions and perhaps letting off steam through work. As a result, I didn't see what I would call healthy interaction between husband and wife - affection, constructive conflict resolution or even an argument. I grew up to believe that a man's worth was strictly associated with how well he can provide for his family. More than that, I firmly believed that taking care of one's partner and children was all that mattered, one's own needs would always come second. In the course of time I became involved with two women who would later walk all over and finally betray me. Now I know that in both cases I unconsciously repeated my father's behaviour in the way I treated them. I concentrated on my work and earning potential (trying to prove my value to them) at the expense of other spheres of life. Little did I know that in both cases both of us spoke different "love languages" (mine was acts of service, theirs was physical touch and words of affirmation) and/or they displayed all the narcissistic red flags that my mother did when I was young. By the time I realised something was amiss in the relationships, both of them were beyond repair - my partners had started taking me for granted a long time before and finally set their eyes on other men, who apparently met their needs better than I could.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, it's a good idea to take stock of your family life. It could offer you at least some clues.

These two posts ^^^ by Tentwinkletoes and Sceadugenga are really good!

The problem when we realize we've been trying to earn love in some way (perform, be perfect, KISA, self-sacrifice) is that it is hard to stop. And as performers, we attract selfish types, those who are narcissistically selfish ("I am so awesome!") or those who are needily selfish ("Oh, woe is me! Poor me. Help!"). Except the me, me, me type can often justify cheating. And since we're all about them, they figure we'll let it slide.

The key is to change our relationship style. The selfish type won't be interested in us if we are not doing for them, but healthier people who don't need that focus on them ARE attracted to us. Changing the way we deal with others takes time. It pays off, but not overnight.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 4:37 AM, August 21st (Friday)]

The problem when we realize we've been trying to earn love in some way.

Yep, many of us grow up with a feeling that we are somewhat unlovable, as if deficient in some way and the only way to make up for that deficiency is by proving our worth, in effect "buying love" with our dedication. No wonder we act like a magnet for those types whose love is conditional and transactional in nature - you're only deserving of their love and affection as long as our own "provision" meets a pre-designated quota. Once, for whatever reason, it falls below the expected level, off they go in search of a better provider.

Depression can lead to poor impulse control, is it possible your spouses / gf s also struggled with depression but unlike yourself coped with it poorly ?

When people say “pushover” in a relationship context that means not setting / understanding / enforcing clear boundaries

That can certainly be remedied with IC/ MC

Also , when a woman / man cheats unless its an exit affair its usually with low hanging fruit . Doesnt cement the Ap as a alpha or the bs as a beta . Just means the ws is a cheater . That is the only logical inference but ofcourse people arent entirely rational because noone has zero insecurities

[This message edited by siracha at 6:56 AM, August 21st (Friday)]

Duplicate

[This message edited by siracha at 5:44 AM, August 21st (Friday)]

I say this with all honesty.

IT IS NOT YOU!!

I am not a mind reader and could predict my husband would cheat on me after 25 years of a good marriage. I can tell you that having experience dating both a serial cheater, an alcoholic, a guy with anger management issues and just some all-around selfish people, I learned to notice the warning signs and avoid certain types of people with behavior patterns that were 🚩🚩.

I stopped dating people who lived in bars. I stopped dating people who put sports first. I stopped dating people who yelled and angered easily. Lessons learned.

It is unfortunate the experiences that you have had while dating and married. However you have to look back and say those were the choices made by the cheater. The only thing we have in common is that You were the person being cheated on.

You seem like a real smart guy and did not choose the same Type of person Twice. It’s just unfortunate that so many people choose cheating as a way of coping with their issues or unhappiness. And it’s not something you can predict. People change unfortunately- not always for the better.

I hope this helps you.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 7:13 AM, August 21st (Friday)]

I just want to thank everyone for your responses. Something went wrong with my email client and it didn't sync with the email address I use here. It is my personal email account and as opposed to the one I use for business actually has very little activity.

I wasn't ignoring you, I just didn't receive the notifications of your posts.

Thank you, yes, I have been drawn to the wrong kind of woman. My picker did steer me wrong and we have been exploring trauma of my youth and military service in IC.

Things are actually going well with my SO (I do call her my wife although we never got married since we have 2 DDs and have been together for 12 years).

She continues to be transparent and apologetic when something triggers me. She is especially keen on showing me affection each and every day.

Her whys, now that's another question altogether, she is blaming getting older and feeling undesirable together with a feeling that I was not that attracted to her anymore. At the time, her anti-epileptic and depression meds were changed as well and her IC suggests that in that period, her inhibitions may have been lowered.

I just said that I don't care because lower inhibitions just uncover present proclivities and shows me that she has the proclivity to betray me.

She knows that she was almost out the door and that if it was anything more or I discover anything hidden, that option is in immediate effect.

I have spoken to the AP (he is single) his version is that if there were feelings involved, that it was absolutely one sided from her direction. This corresponds with the correspondence I have intercepted and recovered.

It actually made me more worried. What if he were interested and reciprocated, would I have been dealing with a full blown PA?

She still has a lot to explore in IC herself.

I guess the EA was just a small blip on the radar in the context of what I have been through before, but it dredged up all the old fears and hurt piled upon the new feelings of betrayal.

Waywards really mess us up for life, don't they?

Again thank you all for the time you took to support and advise an internet stranger. It is heartwarming to know there are caring people in the wider world out there.

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 9:24 AM, September 14th (Monday)]

I've been cheated on multiple times by different people, dated and worked hard for narcissists, had a sad and lonely life of a child with alcoholic parent.

Still believe in the goodness of people. Still try for being my best every day. Still believe in love. I will never give up.

Until this place, I thought it was just bad luck. No, I chose clever, using people who wanted my love and dedication. I put my trust in them. Their mask stays on until it slips. I didn't see any flags to run from but they were there. They must have been there. All I remember was happiness and excitement at the start of these. I was so sad all my young life, it felt like rain in the desert.

It feels so good until the pain. But it crept in slowly. Especially this last time. Being devalued/ discarded is a torture. I should have gone years ago.

I feel a calm now. It's not as fun as the joy and excitement but there is no sadness and pain.

I'm hoping if i can be strong in myself, I will find real love, not euphoria or self sacrifice.

I believe it exists. So I strive for that.