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You get to set your boundaries wherever you like regardless of whether those boundaries make him comfortable.

I just... He knows that his questionable relationships with women are a problem for you and yet he continues to deliberately pursue them. You don't have to be okay with continuing disrespect, which imho this thing with his brother's girlfriend definitely is. As well as sniffing around a female coworker. I certainly wouldn't be okay with it if I were in your spot. Just my 0.02.

[This message edited by EllieKMAS at 9:45 PM, July 20th (Monday)]

Obviously I'm not okay with his interaction with future sil since I'm posting. He already knows former co worker was crossing a line.

It's what to do about about this that I'm unsure of.

Easy fix? Put the whole fam on the message string.

Harder fix? Tell him this isn't appropriate and he needs to send her a soft "NC", to wit: "Due to my past infidelities, our constant contact is causing problems in my marriage and is disturbing my wife. I am happy to discuss wedding plans, provided we do so in a group setting only."

Shittiest thing about boundaries is having to lay them down and then follow through with consequences when they are violated.

[This message edited by EllieKMAS at 9:55 PM, July 20th (Monday)]

Easy fix? Put the whole fam on the message string

.

I have had his entire family blocked from my fb since the second affair came to light and I found out MIL and SIL both knew.. they all worked together. It wasnt a secret from everyone there what he and ow2 were doing. The relationship with his family crumbled for wh and I and it's taken years for us to get this far in reconciling.

I have my boundaries with them that keeps me from going crazy. So no message strings there lol

This might actually be a good opportunity for both of us to sit down with BIL and gf and discuss our experience with infidelity.

First things first is explaining my position with his frequent contact with gf. And then suggesting the above.

Nope. I’m with NTV for the record.

My WH has known one SIL longer than he’s known me (20+ years) and he texts her on her bday and if there is an issue (like her mother being sick, our niece potentially having COVID). I’m either included on these texts or told about them. Other SIL he actually just texted this week bc we found out she left BIL and WH wanted her to know we (he and I) were available for any support she needed.

No way in hell does he text ANY woman “all of the time”.

On the flip side, my sister and WH have only texted about me or his A (when he apologized to her).

I don’t ever text his brothers (even on their bdays) and only text my sisters husband if it’s in regards to our kids.

We don’t have “friends” like that. Me, bc I’ve always had boundaries and WH because he doesn’t want to be an assshat anymore who needs kibbles from any woman.

I hate that your H is such an ass without boundaries. You are a freaking gem and he’s wasting his life not appreciating that. ❤️

He was complaining that his foot hurt. I told him at least hes had a tetanus shot. He says ya I wont get lock jaw. I reply with that would be an improvement. He looks at me puzzled and asks why.

I then tell him it would be better if his thumbs were both broken. (Cue deer in headlights look from him) as I continue with "then you couldn't keep messaging people non stop".

Light bulb went off. I could see it in his eyes.

He knows I dont approve of him messaging anyone with a vagina. While I am pretty sure he got my point I think we could use mc to better communicate.

I will say what I have said a million times here. WH went to MC and she asked to meet with us separately. When I was done talking, she said, "Why are you giving H such mixed messages?" I was taken back. She said, "When you tell someone you don't like something but do nothing differently, they don't believe you. If it's not acceptable, then why are you accepting it?"

So DragnHeart, if it's not acceptable, why are you accepting it? What have you done to show it is not acceptable?

Here are some options:

Break his phone if he keeps texting. Warn him that this is your plan.

Pack a suitcase when he is texting.

Stop making him any food--ever. Dinner? No plate for him. Explain that you feel ignored, so you assumed that was the way he wanted the marriage to go.

Take a picture of all the text messages with your phone and send to BIL.

Explain that it's you or her: which person does he want in his life?

DragnHeart, this is wayward behavior. You are not in R.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 1:15 AM, July 21st (Tuesday)]

This might actually be a good opportunity for both of us to sit down with BIL and gf and discuss our experience with infidelity.

Omg, no. This is because you are struggling to enforce your own boundaries. Say no. Mean it. Do something.

Hell no. These texts are not appropriate at all. He needs to shut them down. He does not need to give a reason-specifically one that points towards you DH-being the big bad green jealous monster.

And IMHO... I would be much more direct in your delivery to him. You can hint around all damn day and then he can just deny...you never said it bothered you when we texted, blah blah blah.

[This message edited by AnnieOakley at 1:17 AM, July 21st (Tuesday)]

Is it unreasonable to expect him never to interact with other woman? It has been many years since his last PA. With his friendly/flirty personality it's hard to know what I should keep as boundaries.

Absolutely not. And it's not "any other women" it's just women who are appropriate sexual partners. I'm sure you wouldn't mind him TXTing your grandmother like that, for example. I have a really hard line on it and people think I'm crazy, but I basically have a "no private (personal) conversations" rule with women I find sexually attractive. I'll talk about work with them and I'll keep the conversation professional and then move on. If they TXT me, which some have, I just ignore it (unless it's about work, of course). In my personal life, it's a hard line, just "no". There's simply no good reason I can see to introduce that level of danger into my marriage; you can't have an A if you don't have someone lined up to have an A with. I literally would have to start from 0 if I wanted to have an A today; it would take a long time and lot of effort. If you have 10 attractive (to you) women on TXT rotation, it would be dramatically easier. It's a loaded gun with one in the chamber and the hammer back, just pull the trigger and it goes bang.

No way in hell does he text ANY woman “all of the time”.

There's an axiom that's oft repeated in some circles that's basically, "If he keeps talking to you, he wants to f**k you". While I think it's a tiny bit overstated (after all, I do talk to my Mom a lot, and well, I'm pretty certain that's not my goal), it's also not entirely off base. When I was looking to hook up, I'd spend hours a day talking on the phone, TXT, e-mail, etc with women. Why? Because I wanted something and was working to get it. Now I spend 0 hours a day outside of my wife, both because I think it's important for her not to worry about it, but also because, well, what's the point? Why put in all that effort if I'm not going to sleep with them? It's just a really poor risk/reward ratio, spend time TXTing endlessly for what? The only answer that would motivate me is "well, obviously, for sex". With that off the table, there's no reason for me to do it; it simply has too much risk for very little/no reward (when I can TXT a man instead, get the same reward and have 0 risk).

Many years ago, when my H and I were going out socially with his brothers and their wives, one day plans fell through and it ended up being my brother-in-law and I going to a dance joint to listen to music.

I didn’t think anything at all all of it, but when I pulled up to the place, and went inside, and realized that it would be only him and I, sitting at the table together, possibly having a drink together, and God forbid… If he should suggest that we dance… I got a real creepy feeling.

It wasn’t that he was interested in me at all, nor I in him. It was just the creepy factor of it. This wasn't my husband. It just wasn’t cool to me. And I am a person who absolutely feels that it’s OK to have friends of the opposite gender.

Anyway, I sat and talked with him for 10 minutes or so, so that I wouldn’t be rude by not coming in and sitting down. But I didn’t order a drink, and then I said something about it being time that my H was going to be home, so I need to head on home.

It was all fine in the end, but I did have an “ick factor“ going on with me… Just like it was not a great situation.

Another example is that at my church, of all places, there is a young man who teaches Bible study classes. He and I have “clicked“ like you sometimes do with a person of the same gender or of the different gender. I am old enough to be his mother. But I very much enjoy going to his classes. We disagree about theology, but he is so very smart and I can learn so much from him.

But I am totally aware of the fact that I don’t want anyone to get the wrong impression about our friendship. Last week, the Bible study was changed to another location, and I could’ve found out his phone number and called him, but I felt odd about it. At the end of the evening, I asked if someone in the group would please take my phone number so that I could be called if there was a change of plans in the future. This guy told me he would text me with his phone number, as the leader of the group, so I would have his number. Subconsciously, I searched around the group to see if his wife was there… And she was. And I felt relieved that he had not given me that number to me when she wasn’t there. Simply for appearances.

As I said, I have had just as many best friends that were male as I have had female. But since my husband’s infidelity, I have hypervigilance about appearances. And the line “not to cross” with male friends has changed. I don’t want there to be even a chance of a misinterpretation.

This is what I think your husband is missing. Only he and you can know whether or not this is some sort of hidden agenda on his part, or simply an immaturity and disrespect about boundaries.

The part that is so frustrating to me, with things along these lines, is that these appropriate boundaries don’t come natural to some FWSs, even after infidelity.

I guess it’s impossible to know if they don’t get it, or they get it and they don’t care. Either way, it’s disrespectful to you, and setting up a situation for potential possibilities.

I don’t think you are out of line to feel these are very poor boundaries and that it is unacceptable.

Both of them are out of line. And they know it.

Your WH isn't her BFFgirlfriend. And if he likes the drama/attention of it all - he needs to grow up.

If your BIL is OK with his fiance being BFFs with your WH - that's some messed up stuff.

Make a family group chat if necessary. But the whole thing [the more I type] is pissing me off. In fact if you go bat shit on your BIL and tell him he makes it stop or you will - I've got your back and your bail.

"Why are you giving H such mixed messages?" I was taken back. She said, "When you tell someone you don't like something but do nothing differently, they don't believe you. If it's not acceptable, then why are you accepting it?"

THIS ^^^

DH, what will it take for you to consider D? Catching him in bed with future SIL? An OW taking the bait and catching him with her? If all it took in combating infidelity was to sit down and remind our WSes that we don't like it when they have As, this place would be a ghost town. You want an infidelity free marriage and yet you have an infidelity rife marriage. Talking to him isn't working and any assumption of, "I think he gets it," is a pipe dream. If he got it now from your vague little comment, don't you think he would've gotten it on DDay or after you caught him fishing for a new OW or any of the other numerous times you caught him? No, he doesn't get it. He gets that he can keep cheating and that the only consequence is you being mad and having a conversation with him so the cheating is worth it to him. If you want him to change, you need to change your approach to this.

Personally, I'm questioning why you're defending him and not blowing this up. He was caught looking to cheat on you. He is already crossing into EA territory with the amount of texting, the emotional intimacy of his texts, and she's encouraging it by showing off her outfits and telling him to choose. What happens if he ignores you and keeps texting her? What if he escalates it to secret alone time or sexting or sexy pictures? What will your consequence be?

I just blew up my W for less than that. Slippery slope.

Sorry all I just got up, again. Feeling really drained today. I need more coffee.

I'm hoping to go back and try to respond to specific things after I wake up more.

(((((I'm going to respond regarding the future SIL. I already made it clear the former co worker texts werent ok)))))

So DragnHeart, if it's not acceptable, why are you accepting it? What have you done to show it is not acceptable?

Because it's hard to judge if hes trying to be friendly since she is going to end up being family or if hes being flirty looking for something.

The facebook messages go back as far as the day after the ATV accident and up until this past Sunday.

Other than the two lines I quoted theres nothing from wh to sil that I'd consider a red flag. He followed a really specific way of writing when emailing this ows. Theres really none of that. He answers SIL questions, gives some of his experiences and opinions. I do find it odd that shes asking for his opinion on wedding dresses. These are just photos of dresses, NOT her in a dress.

Her messages to him are alot longer than his to her.

I know that if I say something hes going to insist he is just being friendly to her and that since shes going to be officially family theres nothing wrong with that.

This is because you are struggling to enforce your own boundaries

Most likely yes. But when is my lack of healing an acceptable reason to keep him from interacting with members of the opposite sex?

Absolutely not. And it's not "any other women" it's just women who are appropriate sexual partners. I'm sure you wouldn't mind him TXTing your grandmother like that, for example

I dont mind him messaging anyone as long as it isnt hidden from me. The secrecy, going behind my back shit that's upsetting because I ALWAYS find out.

Now he hasn't tried to hide it when they are messaging and he answers honestly who he is speaking to. He knows when HIS phone goes off it's a trigger for me.

I also have access to his accounts via my phone or through his anytime. The problem with Facebook messenger is the "secret conversation" option. Easily turned on and off and easy to delete any messages. I dont know if messages before what I can see are archived or if hes deleted them. At least through texts I can see the numbers if who he is messaging and how often even if I dont have the texts themselves.

There's an axiom that's oft repeated in some circles that's basically, "If he keeps talking to you, he wants to f**k you"

Both of them are out of line. And they know it.

She seems to be the one sending the messages first. While I agree wh needs to keep it more professional or formal and not nice nice I have to wonder if shes fishing....

Your WH isn't her BFFgirlfriend. And if he likes the drama/attention of it all - he needs to grow up.

Oh theres no IF. I know wh likes the attention. Shes coming to HIM for advice. Gives him the good feels if being important...

If your BIL is OK with his fiance being BFFs with your WH - that's some messed up stuff.

I dont even know if bil knows gf is messaging wh. I could bring it up the next time I see him.

Make a family group chat if necessary. But the whole thing [the more I type] is pissing me off. In fact if you go bat shit on your BIL and tell him he makes it stop or you will - I've got your back and your bail.

I'm to tired to go bat shit crazy on any of them. People messing with my horses, then I go batsuit crazy lol. As I did Sunday. This messaging shit is more an annoyance.

DH, what will it take for you to consider D?

Winning the lottery so I can buy him out of the house and not lose my dream farm.

While I agree wh needs to keep it more professional or formal and not nice nice I have to wonder if shes fishing....

IMHO, he needs to shut her down. This is a major trigger for you and 'friendly or flirty' is kind of beside the point that what he is doing is not appropriate. He shouldn't be giving this chick ANY reason to think there's interest there - which he IS by continuing to have these types of interactions with her. He may not be 'encouraging' it, but he sure as shit ain't DISCOURAGING it either. And this is a slippery slope he's on cus he's getting kibbles n bits from this shit and that is in NO way alright given his past behaviors. Just my 0.02.

I dunno, but I don't think him with him being a guy and all that he would be out of line telling her to go find a girlfriend to discuss dresses with. The whole thing is just seriously odd.

This is a major trigger for you and 'friendly or flirty' is kind of beside the point that what he is doing is not appropriate

Thank you. That's what I needed to hear. A way I can explain it to him so maybe he understands. That it's irrelevant if hes just trying to be friendly. Having the conversation in the first place is the problem.

I agree she needs to find a female to do the dress shopping with...

Then again he doesnt have to understand it. Just know that I'm mot comfortable with it. That should be enough for him to stop.

That's what I needed to hear. A way I can explain it to him so maybe he understands.

Sorry to say this, but it is very codependent thinking to want him to understand. They are your boundaries. You need to be strong. You tell him it needs to stop, and that's it. He does not need to agree, just do it. You think a guy understands when you tell him to take his hand off your breast? Or an intruder understands when you dial the police? Who cares! Enough is enough.

I never understand why posters start a thread about something they find upsetting and then spend pages telling each poster why the upsetting behavior is actually fine. This is so confusing to me. It's not ok and you know it. Your gut is screaming. You are hating the texting. Why do you convince yourself that your feelings don't matter?

I'm sorry but your WH's behavior is repulsive. Just disgustingly disrespectful to so many people. It's like he's got an open secret girlfriend.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 10:36 AM, July 21st (Tuesday)]