SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

gmc94

thank you for the reply. I do not mean to come across self centered. I am trying not to center on my BS because this post is about me trying to become a wholehearted and safe partner.

He is the center of my universe. To be honest, if it wasn't for the small chance of R, I am not certain i'd still be alive. I feel immense shame and guilt. I've been trying like you suggested to emerge in that and learn from it rather than having it kill me.

My BS is the most wonderful person. He is everything a woman could ask for and more. He is hurting very badly. Fell into depression. Hate. Anger and frustration. Sadness and all emotions together. Please do not think I am not empathizing with him. I am every moment of the day! But the reality is that we are in NC and I can not do anything to help him but work on myself.

If you have any other advice I am happy to listen!

This affair was the result of my unresolved past. Two IC have confirmed this to me. It never had anything to do with the lack of love for my BS. But with the lack of self love and self worth towards myself.

This A was the result of you WANTING and DECIDING to cheat. Add to the "lack of self love", lack of RESPECT, INTEGRITY and HONESTY, even if you didn't love yourself or your BS if you had respected him you would have filed for D then date your AP, and NO you didn't "turn everything off" you hid your A, you consciously lied to your BS and kept doing it for months, your fear to getting caught was "ON" the whole time, you were not "Numb" to the embarrassment and consequences, that's why you like most cheaters hid your A. You're just 2 months from D day, keep posting you have a long way to go.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 7:20 PM, August 22nd (Saturday)]

Rose, this has now been moved to wayward which as it should be is a protected forum, so I will choose my words more carefully and won’t be as blunt.

It’s really not my pain talking. It’s the pain I have for your BS. It’s still all about you. I want this, I was burned as much as him, I’m not a cold hard bitch, I’m a loving wife, I was abused too.

You speak volumes about your pain, but barely a mention of how he is feeling.

I just hope you love him enough to let him go, use the time to learn, and start again fresh so he can move on and be safe. Not just in love, but physically safe from anymore thoughts about suicide

[This message edited by waitedwaytoolong at 7:23 PM, August 22nd (Saturday)]

Oh Rose. Your story is heartbreaking. But as a fWW myself, I can tell you that you have alot of work to do. I see alot of my early self in you. It takes years to grow from this.

I would agree with other posters that if your BH needs NC, respect that.

My H chose R, and 10 years out, we are separated and probably divorcing. I made alot of mistakes,as you have. I opened up my marriage when I shouldn't have.

I never didn't love my H, but what I did hurt him, and changed him forever.

Before you choose R, if it's offered to you, please know that he's never going to be the same man, you're never going to be the same woman, your relationship can never be what it was. You have to be ready to accept that, and really understand what it means.

Spend some time reflecting on who you are and what its going to take to be who you'd have to be here. If you're really, truly honest with yourself, you may find it's best you let him go and work on being a better GF for tbe future.

[This message edited by bewuzzled at 8:06 PM, August 22nd (Saturday)]

Can I ask how long did the TT last? Was it your BH's suicide attempt that made you finally tell the truth?

Similarly, why did your family and friends turn on your WH? What did you tell them about the affair? Did you blame him? I've got to say it would be unusual for everyone to turn against the betrayed in a situation like this. Did these people know and cover for you? Did you blame your BH for the affair when talking to them?

"He is the center of my universe."

"My BS is the most wonderful person."

Who are you speaking to here? It's not the SI crowd. Please stop talking to him.

To be honest, if it wasn't for the small chance of R, I am not certain i'd still be alive.

Wow, please reread this a few times. Does he need or deserve this responsibility? You just told him if he doesn't offer R, you may kill yourself.

But the reality is that we are in NC and I can not do anything to help him but work on myself.

It's my opinion that you are using SI as a way to communicate with him. So you're not NC. Please if you do care for him. Use SI as a tool to help "survive infidelity", not use it as a tool to control an outcome. I'm speaking from experience. My STBXW, and I both used this place for the wrong reasons.

Please, please, please. Stop talking to him through SI.

The op words seem to be a huge smoke screen.

They received the gift of reconciliation and lived with their spouse and then cheated again?!

I was stunned at one strike exercising judgment on two strikes. But the real explanation is that reformed wonder woman will take care of all and protect from the evil women around.

Letting my BS go as you say will not ensure that he will never be encounter such a trauma again

I can however ensure that I am going to be the person that will not ever cause him harm again!

While the op had magnanimously admitted to guilt,

This AP got into my head and triggered my unresolved past broken parts

And if you don't believe it, even the experts say so

This affair was the result of my unresolved past. Two IC have confirmed this to me

But not to worry. It really did not mean anything for 5 months.

During the course of the affair I felt nothing. It is like it was a separate universe

Maybe this is what a semblance of understanding/acceptance looks like, from another thread on the forum

There may be some self preservation going on too. Like an internal dialogue of some kind. “I loved her during my A. Of course I did. But my actions prove that I didn’t. But if I tell her I didn’t, then all she’ll hear is I didn’t love her and I had an A and then we’ll D. Well, since I believe I loved her during my A, it’s the truth. And I don’t want to hurt her anymore than I already have. And I really do love her (now). So that’s my answer.”

It’s still all about you. I want this, I was burned as much as him, I’m not a cold hard bitch, I’m a loving wife, I was abused too.

You speak volumes about your pain, but barely a mention of how he is feeling.

And please re-read everything Neanderthal said. Then read it again. And again.....

Have you read the top thread in Wayward (things every WS needs to know)?

I also bumped a thread by DaddyDom called the process of discovering our true whys.

As well as another thread by DaddyDom called getting it vs owning it....

Those threads MAY shed some light on what others are trying to say here.

Saying you would "never" do this again? Poppycock. IMO, it may be beneficial to just stop even thinking that way. It does not make most BS feel one lick safer to have a WS say that - esp so early in this YEARS LONG process. Why? Because EVERY WS (and pre dday BS) believes they would never do it to begin with.... and yet.... the DID do it. They DO have the capacity to have an A and all the awful choices/behavior that goes along with it.

I see a lot of flowery words from you (and agree with Neanderthal that it doesn't seem to be written from a place of inner authenticity), but not much ownership or empathy. You can get there, but the idea that you ARE "there" is misplaced in your posts IMO.

Empathy is a whole different ball of wax. Check out some Brene Brown on Empathy. It's about you getting to your BS' level (someone once said it's about getting down ON THE FLOOR with the person who is hurting, and I love that imagery). It's finding ways to feel what he's going through while also putting aside your own shame and guilt. Also, being NC does not mean you cannot have empathy for your BS. You can have that empathy within yourself even if it cannot be expressed directly to him.

Godspeed.

I am going to IC and I know I will NOT cheat again! There is no way either one of us would survive it.

I have no doubt in my mind that I will not ever cheat again in my life!

Being honest and faithful takes more than a single decision, and it takes more than a declaration of intent.

I'm sure you didn't think you'd cheat, and yet you did. No matter what behavior you have changed in you in the last 2 months, it''s way too early to declare victory. It's way too early to adopt ne behavior and make it your default. It's way, way to early to resolve FOO issues.

Becoming a 'wholehearted' partner takes decision after decision, day after day. And you have to recognize that you probably still retain vulnerabilities to cheating again, so you need to learn to monitor your head, heart, and body at virtually all times. And you need to be learn to keep yourself safe when it feels like too much effort for too little payoff.

I think you may be too assive about about this. The om didn't get into your head - you let him in. Becoming wholehearted may be a one-time thing, but there's no magic - staying wholehearted takes work every day, sometimes every minute of every day.

You need to teach yourself to make being wholehearted automatic - your default, as I mentioned above.

You can do it, but you need to realize more about what it is you are aiming at. I don't know who your H is, and I don't know if R with him is in your future. I believe, however, that you'll be better off if you change yourself from cheater to good partner whether you D or R.

*****

My own choice 53 years ago was 2-fold. First, whenever I became aware I was thinking of sex, I brought my W, and only my W, into my awareness. I associated sex for me only with her. Second, I realized that a list of the things that could hurt a relationship is endless, and training myself not to do them all would drive me crazy, so I just set a simple boundary of not doing or saying anything with a potential sexual partner that I wouldn't do or say in front of my W.

Dearest Rose,

Welcome to SI. Please remember to be kind to yourself. YES, it is okay to be kind to yourself.

If your H has chosen NC (is shutting you out), then you most certainly CAN make this difficult time about you and your healing.

I would give him his space, while letting him know that you are available to him, when and if he chooses to communicate.

In the meantime, if you have developed trust with your individual counselor, please continue with your therapy.

I would also recommend lining up a marriage counselor in the event you have the opportunity to attend counseling with your H.

I most certainly DO think it's possible to heal yourself and to become a safe person to both yourself and to others.

I DO think it's okay, and natural, to be thinking of yourself. Thinking of yourself does not mean that you are unable to think of anyone but yourself. Thinking of yourself does not mean that you are some selfish monster that doesn't have the ability to think of others. It also doesn't mean that you can't find empathy for others. To me, it means that you are questioning yourself and your mindset, and attempting to see things-- to make sense of your pain and your mistakes. It means you are human.

I would like to encourage you, once again, to be kind to yourself-- there will be plenty who want to beat you down. Please reject the hate.

Choose love and kindness in this time of healing.

In fact, you BOTH need kindness and understanding in order to heal. I encourage you to find competent, trusted professionals that can assist you and your H in repairing yourselves and your M.

To all of you good people that took the time to read my post and comment on it, I must tell you this: THANK YOU and I AM SORRY.

Since I posted last, I reread all of it. All comments and especially my responses.

This response here now, is coming from a place within me that I am, as of now afraid of.

I am sorry for my defensive behavior/ commenting.

Many of my statements came from a place within me that is filled with selfishness and arrogance. - Thank you all for pointing this out to me, showing me that I am not as far into my healing process as I thought.

I initially reread all the comments because the replies made me feel misunderstood. I had the intention with my post to ask how to become a better person. The responses I got were not what I expected. The criticism caught me off guard and showed me sides of me that I was not ready to acknowledge. I responded defensive and poorly and I am sorry!

The initial post came from a place within me that I thought to be sincere, that I never meant to harm my BS. I thought that my post was self centered because I had to focus on myself in trying to become better and to get somehow through this, since I have not received the gift of R -Or of having the chance to help my BS with his healing due to NC.

I also realized how toxic people around me had been, how critical of my relationship and how they encouraged me to have doubts , without knowing the truth about it. I felt entirely alone. And the ONE person who actually understood and loved me, I hurt. - And that shame, guilt and loneliness made me start to play the victim here.

It made me want to defend myself in front of all of you, instead of make me feel vulnerable and make me want to live wholeheartedly. I am sorry for that!

I am more aware now of myself and the situation thanks to all of you replies! The difficult truth that I did not want to see at first. I AM NOT THE VICTIM. MY BS IS.

I made these decisions that led me down the wrong path, step by step. - The single good decision I made was to end the affair!

I made decisions not to tell my BS. To hide it from him and myself. I suppressed in my own mind because the pain was too much to deal with. I could not face what I had done. - and in reading through my previous replies here, I see that I am still struggling to face what I did. The shame is taking over at times and makes me want to hide from it. I experience the shame in a way that prevents me from seeing anything good. Shame gets in the way of me being fully honest with myself and even here, speaking about what I did. It destroys every good decision I make because I tell myself I do not deserve it. That I don't deserve anything good after what I have done to my BS.

My statement that I wrote here "I will never do this again" - I was wrong to say that. YOU were all RIGHT! 9 months ago, I was saying the same thing and I did it..

I HATE that i did!! I understand that while reading my previous comments you all must have been just shaking your heads. That I seem like I am in denial. And you are right. I was in denial when I wrote that.

There is SO much work ahead of me. I told myself : I knew I would never do this again, wanted to believe that I was a good person. I was NAIVE, SELFISH and ARROGANT when I said those things! I was prideful and not at all as self aware as I thought. And those are exactly the things that led me down the path of destruction that made me do the things I did 9 months ago.

That tells me that I have not changed nearly as much as I hoped I had, and this realisation hurts. Thank you all for pointing this out to me and making me realize that I was about to walk down that wrong path again. Thinking that I was beyond the stage of making the same mistakes as before.

"I know I will never do this again" WRONG!!!!! - I can't say that I know I will never do this again. BUT, I can say I AM DETERMINED TO DO EVERYTHING I CAN TO NOT EVER LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN and to never let that side of me see the light of the day again!!!! To ALWAYS BE AWARE that it is there but to minimize it step by step and replace it with good.

I need to learn. I need to change my decision making and my coping strategies. I have started this process and I hope you all will help me with that.

When I said " I can't live without him" I felt like I meant it. I still do. I never meant to use this site as a communication tool and I have done my best to respect the NC and give him the space he needs to heal himself. But I have to do more!!! It is not fair of me to say something like that - not fair to him! I had no right to say it and put pressure on him. No matter the fact that it was not my intention, that is what it ultimately would do. Put pressure on him. It was selfish of me. It was my selfish thinking that I don't want a life without him. Because I do love him very much.

I told myself that I always loved him. But you are all right. For 5 months I did not. For 5 months I lied. I hid the truth and let somebody else into my head. I made everything else a priority but him. I decided to sleep with the AP and let his words get to me. And listen to the AP every time he told me not to tell my BS. That is one of the things I HATE the most. I was a monster, a coward. I did not want my BS to get hurt. But I continued lying, having the affair, sleeping with someone else, because that was the price to fill a need I had. And I was so selfish that it felt like that need was more important than protecting my BS. And I HATE it. That is not love.

I don't want to be defensive, I don't want to be selfish. But I was and I still am to a large extend. I do NOT want to be that anymore!!

There is NO excuse for what I did. And I am really trying to change. But it is hard. It is my instinctual reaction to become defensive when I read the truths about what I did. I feel like I have the intention of not being defensive. I try to understand. But I have so much trouble accepting that what I see written in these replies is truly who I am. I am insecure about myself and I have been for a long time. I realized that I get a lot of my self worth from other people and what other people think/ say of me because I feel like a failure. I feel like I let my mom down when I did not protect her from her own affair and marrying someone who continued to cheat on her after, and I let my little sister down by not protecting her enough from that environment we grew up in. I feel like I let my ex-husband down, and now I know that I have let my BS down in the worst way. I feel like a failure, and I am reliant on what other people think to give me value, and I realize now that it makes me defensive even here, when people are just honestly trying to help me by being critical and direct. It is the same thing that led me to getting my self-worth from someone outside of my relationship. It is the SAME THING that led me to cheating, and now I see from my responses that it is still a part of me.

I need to learn how to get validation and self-worth from myself. And everyone here helped me realize that, and in return I was defensive and convinced myself that you couldn't be right about me. But YOU ARE RIGHT!

I've made so many excuses. I blamed the AP instead of myself. I portrayed myself as a victim. I did it because it was easier to do that. Part of me does feel like a victim, but what I have mixed up is that I'm not a victim. I was weak. He didn't force me to do anything. He didn't trick me. I knew what I was doing every time I went to his house. It's obvious now what he was doing, but somehow it wasn't obvious then. I was so arrogant and stupid that I didn't see it. I kept convincing myself that it wasn't like that. I was naive at first, when our conversations first began, but I kissed him. And from then on I knew what was happening, and I continued. I was not naive, or tricked. I was narcissistic, selfish and cruel, and a horrible person. I'm trying to come up with reasons for how I could be capable of what I did, and I see now that it has caused me to make excuses like "the AP got into my head" or blaming it on my past. I'm trying to find reasons because it doesn't make any sense to me now that I could do what I did, and I can't believe I turned my back on the most important person to me. But there is no excuse. There is no reason to do what I did. The replies here pointed that out to me, showed me that I was making excuses, and I hid from it. It is tearing me apart to know the pain I’ve caused without being able to help my BS.

My post here came from a good place inside me. I really am trying to change, and I made this post hoping to find ways to do that. But when I started getting responses that opened my eyes further to what I've done, I hid from it. I got defensive. I viewed myself as the victim again. I let my arrogance and selfishness show, and when people pointed it out to me, I didn't want to see it because they are the same things that were present in me nine months ago that led me to what I did.

I want to take ownership, but each time I try I feel like I am falling into a hole of depression that I will not be able to get out of again. So I stopped. I must take ownership now, and going forward. I do struggle to communicate what I am really feeling and what I'm really meaning, but I will not give up. I am truly sorry for hurting him. I feel that each time I try I use the wrong words, even the IC pointed that out to me. I do not use the right words to express the true meaning what I am trying to say.

This post was typed with the help of spell check this time to ensure fewer typos before posting it on here.

I will try to be vulnerable here. I will try to look at responses with an open mind, as ways to improve myself instead of personal attacks. I am struggling so much, but I really am trying. This right here is basically the only support system that I have at this time apart from IC. I am entirely alone without friends or family and it scares me. (I cut contact with almost everyone due to their twisted points of view) I hope everyone here will understand that I am trying, even though I see now that I am still failing in many ways. I hope you will all continue to help me.

Sincerely,

Rose2206

Coming to SI and posting is not an easy thing to do.

So, regardless of how long it takes for anything about changing yourself sinks in, you are here. You are posting. You are trying to receive the messages of others who have been in the trenches of infidelity. That's more than I can say for my WH.

And I want to say that I absolutely disagree with the idea of seeing a MC in the near future. You MAY get lucky and find someone that's helpful. The odds are not very good on that front. Many (most?) MC will focus on the M and not helping your BH through his TRAUMA. They are apt to Dx the BS with codependence, when what looks like CoD may be a trauma response (we are all different), and pathologizing the BS for their trauma is basically re-traumatizing the BS. MC often want to interact in a way that gives the perception of "fairness" to both parties, which can leave one/both in a tailspin. I am not saying that MC is a bad thing... what I'm saying is that MC is not appropriate early in the process... it should be considered after both parties have some solid healing under their belt, and after both WS & BS are fully COMMITTED to R. I doubt either of you are anywhere near that place (certainly not with your BH enforcing NC).

Focus on the healing before focusing on the M.

Focus on YOU and how you can become authentic.

Read the things I mentioned - probably starting with SHAME. I'm a BS but read anything I could get my hands on by Brene Brown. My favorite is still an of a series of talks (I think they are TED talks) called the Power of Vulnerability. I think it was about 8hrs altogether (I found it on Hoopla via my local library, but they may also be on YouTube...).

If you want to learn about the trauma you BH is experiencing (and beware, this may cause a shame spiral in you, so make sure you are up to it) is the Marnie Breecker interview with Duane Osterlind on "The Addicted Mind" podcast (a quick google search will find it - it's 2 parts). You can follow that with the Breecker/Osterlind Podcast called "Helping Couples Heal". They are CSATs (Certified Sex Addiction Therapists), but their experience/training/work applies to any WS or BS (and also beware they use the "default" male pronouns for the WS and female for BS... it's just for simplicity and they explain that, but sometimes folks get irked by it).

I highly recommend Rick Hansen's "Resilience" for learning to find joy and be your own friend. Again, I'm a BS but it was a game changer for me (and I recommend finding it on audio, as there are exercises that are easier to do w/o having to look at text. Again, I got it on audio via my local library).

Others will disagree, but I do not recommend "after the affair" by Janis Spring (But I did LOVE her "how can I forgive you" ), or ANYTHING written by Esther Perel or Mira Kirshenbaum. I find all of those works to be chock full of BS blaming - which I don't believe helps a WS or a BS in their healing .

Other WS have written about Pema Chodron's work. I have tried repeatedly, but just can't seem to get into it. I think there's something about her writing style that doesn't jibe with me, but others can and really love it. I do LOVE her concept/teachings about learning to be Ok with the uncertain and uncomfortable parts of life.

Learn about and practice mindfulness. I use a free app called Insight Timer and do their guided meditations (some of them can get my brain back online my just hearing the intro music). There are other apps, but I'm as frugal (aka cheap) as they come, and find this app's free version to be the best I could find.

That's already a lot to take in.

Godspeed.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 3:46 PM, August 23rd, 2020 (Sunday)]

Rose:

Of all of the types of stories on this forum, I find yours to be among the saddest.

I have no doubt you are both horrified and mortified by what you did, and would give anything to have not chosen the road you took.

Moreover, it's clear that you were deeply manipulated by an experienced, scumbag predator, who found your weaknesses and took gross advantage of them.

May he burn in hell.

But you took this road, eyes wide open, willingly, and despite clear warnings -- among others, multiple ones from your husband himself.

And as a result, you gave away something precious to both you and your H, for almost no apparent benefit, and at tragic cost to you, your H and your M.

My reading of these forums suggest that there's almost nothing a WW can write -- especially early on -- that won't be met with 2x4s all around. Anything you say about HIM, about your love for him, about your awareness of the need to support his healings any way you can (including NC) is likely to be interpreted as narcissistic, wayward thinking. It's good that you are willing to accept this.

But as a man, a wife walking into this seduction trap that you both saw being laid, featuring galactic guilt, bad sex, TT, etc. would be very difficult to overcome. Best case, you reconcile but live with the hurt on both sides for the rest of your days.

And all for nothing.

I'd offer two suggestions. First, I'd go very easy on the "I love you more than the stars above/you're my LIFE/the best man I know" bit for a period extending for years. It won't ever sound authentic to him, and as such, will just make the wound smart even more.

Obviously, as you want nothing more than you do to repair your M, it's now his call as to how best to proceed. It may make sense to convey a feeling that he shouldn't take you back unless that is truly what is in his heart to do. It will show kindness to him, and may make him think more clearly about what is salvageable here.

And as I've written before, to feel better about yourself, maybe find someone who needs help desperately, and provide it anonymously.

Then do it again.

I know some of what you're feeling, and trust me, Rose, it'll do you no harm.

I've had much progress over the course of the last two weeks in particular to grow and learn. I've noticed my "filter' has changed. The way I view situations and people.

It’s been two whole months since DDAY and you’re telling us in a matter of 14 days you’re a changed person who has grown and learned so much, apparently from reading a couple of self help books.

I’m sorry to say this sounds incredibly immature.

If you think his suicide attempt gives you some idea of the devastation you have caused this man’s soul you have no idea — but you’re about to find out over the next several years.

Also quit blaming the old fox who you believe lured you into being an adulteress. You are not an innocent babe wandering in the woods. Cut it out.

Hello Rose,

Sorry you're here but glad you found us. I've been following your thread and I haven't seen any mention of a sexual harassment suit against the surgeon. It was absolutely your fault for walking in to his snare, but he bears culpability for the inequality in the relationship. I bet a nice #metoo suit would (a) stop him from being a 'playa' and (2) it might be a further way of demonstrating to your husband your willingness to do whatever it takes. Just sayin'. Besides I have no love for AP's.

Seriously how many times has the “manipulative player” excuse been used by WW’s here on SI? My own WW used it and she’s almost 50. It is facially absurd as a claim. You’re not a child. It beggars belief that women in the 21st century who want to be treated as equals in the same breath want to shirk responsibility for their own lustful, willful, free decisions and lay it at the feet of some Svengali-like mesmer magic they claim men have over them. It doesn’t wash and your husband knows it, but you want to keep flogging at it, which is among a myriad of reasons why is he grief stricken and depressed.

[This message edited by Thumos at 9:23 PM, August 23rd (Sunday)]

Rose, what's done is done. As devastating as all this is, slow down and just work on you. Find what was broken within you, work on fixing that, work on making yourself a better person.... It takes a lot of time, but you have to take it one easy step at a time.

As to your BS, just let him heal. The fact he recommended this site to you is a positive. But now leave him be and he will R if he decides to. If he opts not to, then continue to work on yourself and be the person you need to be for your next.

I bet a nice #metoo suit would (a) stop him from being a 'playa' and (2) it might be a further way of demonstrating to your husband your willingness to do whatever it takes.

Completely inappropriate, the OP is in no way a victim. Good way to down play all those women who actually were sexually assaulted or harassed in the workplace. I'm glad the suggestion didn't come from another woman at least.

I asked a couple of questions earlier I'd still like to get answers to please.

1 - how long did you trickle truth for?

2 - what did you tell your family and friends to make them all turn against your WH? For them all to blame him?

Completely inappropriate, the OP is in no way a victim. Good way to down play all those women who actually were sexually assaulted or harassed in the workplace. I'm glad the suggestion didn't come from another woman at least.

Thank you, Carissima. Just when I start unwittingly slipping back into my post DDAY rejection of an entire gender, women like you step up. Thank you - made my day!

Completely inappropriate, the OP is in no way a victim. Good way to down play all those women who actually were sexually assaulted or harassed in the workplace. I'm glad the suggestion didn't come from another woman at least.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I'd also like to add that a lot of people responding here and to the other thread in JFO seem to be unfamiliar with the way hospitals work. Unless it's a teaching hospital, surgeons are not employed by the hospital. And in no hospital situation is a physician likely to be part of the hierarchy of nursing staff. For someone who willingly participated in an A with a surgeon there would be no up side to reporting this to HR or attempting any sort of "harassment" claim. The surgeon brings in $$$$ for the hospital while the nurse is an expense. Sadly, it's hard enough to get a hospital to revoke privileges from an outright incompetent MD.