SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thank you all for your feedback. You've given me some new info to consider.

Do I now take her cars, expensive clothing and bank accounts away? I say that in jest, but am wondering about my personal perceptions on how best to treat a woman I am married to.

Should there be a limit to kindness and gentleness?

As for money, should my money be mine and her money be hers?

As for dates and vacations should those be limited to fast food and motel 6?

If I do too much it means I am trying too hard? Do I respond by doing much less?

Do I stop treating her like royalty and instead treat her like a peasant?

Your feedback has been some of the most interesting I've heard on this subject.

Let me clarify a couple of things. I don't lack self-confidence or strength. Despite going through infidelity and how my confidence was shaken during that time, I have always been a strong, self-confident man, an overachiever, but also someone who wants to lift up others.

Now, I never showered anyone with gifts on the first date. Nor did I ever attempt to purchase their affection.

I am someone who loves to see my wife smile (yes, even after the affair) when I do kind things for her. Admittedly, I don't see that very often, but kindness and thoughtfulness are big parts of my personality; have I been wrong all these years?

Do I stop treating her like royalty and instead treat her like a peasant?

Cheating aside, you treat her like your best friend, partner, and exclusive lover. You care about her opinions and beliefs. Really care deep in your core, not just out of politenss. (as she should yours!). You 'take care' of each other in whatever ways your marriage has evolved.

I am not sure what treating her like royalty entails. I personally love when men do the heavy lifting type guy things for women. That is more attractive than a thousand compliments.

Good luck figuring this out :-)

Admittedly, I don't see that very often, but kindness and thoughtfulness are big parts of my personality; have I been wrong all these years?

To me, this is the crux of it. You say here that you don't see her smile when you do kind things for her... does she show any gratitude for the kindnesses you show? If not, why keep doing them?

There isn't anything inherently wrong with being a kind and generous person. Where it becomes problematic is when you give that kindness and generosity to people who don't reciprocate. IMHO at that point, I think it's worth exploring why you would choose to keep giving to a taker. For me, that became a source of real resentment even before the cheating happened because I gave and gave and gave some more and didn't get much of anything back. And through my healing, part of what I have had to deal with is that I expended a lot of effort on someone who didn't appreciate it and didn't give me any effort in return. What he did was wrong, but what I did was part of my own codependency and FOO and wasn't okay either, no matter how well-intentioned I was.

Putting anyone on a pedestal is a problem because I think you're a lot less likely to question bad behaviors in that person. I did it with my xwh - there were a LOT of red flags that I ignored or didn't deal with because of the esteem I held him in.

You can stay with your wife for religious reasons ( ? I believe thats your motivation) but i think you have to stop wanting her love or affection

I think you need to start acting like a good roommate and start placing strict boundaries on your behavior . This doesnt mean treat her like she is a worthless peasant , just stop acting like a man in love .

Yes you should keep finances separate and yes you should always split the bill .

split the bill?

O have never allowed a woman to go Dutch.

split the bill?

O have never allowed a woman to go Dutch

Why not? Paying for someone is what you do for a romantic partner or a friend. She is not behaving like either.

If you don't treat her like a princess it doesn't mean you treat her like a peasant. It means you treat her like an equal partner.

In YOUR case she is not acting like a partner. She isn't reciprocating or showing gratitude. So why treat her like a partner? Don t do things that make her happy. Don t pay for her. If that makes her happy, fine. If she doesnt like it, then she changes her behavior to act like a partner, and then you treat her as such.

Why not? Paying for someone is what you do for a romantic partner or a friend. She is not behaving like either.

Whenever I go out with anyone, business partners, church members, my kids, grandkids or my FWW, I always pay. I do so voluntarily. To not do s creates a phobia within me. Stupid I know, but it's me.

If you don't treat her like a princess it doesn't mean you treat her like a peasant. It means you treat her like an equal partner.

And how do you define equal partner? Does she now need to go out and earn money equal to the amount I've earned over the years? Does she need to become an entrepreneur? What does equal partner mean? What's mine is hers. Even all the property she signed over to me after the affair.

In YOUR case she is not acting like a partner.

Probably true.

She isn't reciprocating or showing gratitude. So why treat her like a partner?

I've partnered in business with lots of people over the years. Many of whom I grew to dislike and distrust. But they still received shares equal to what was stated in our business agreements until the contracts expired or were dissolved. I am still in a marriage with her.

Don t do things that make her happy.

I am not purchasing her happiness, but I do like to make her happy.

Don t pay for her.

She is not working. How is that going to work?

Whenever I go out with anyone, business partners, church members, my kids, grandkids or my FWW, I always pay. I do so voluntarily. To not do s creates a phobia within me. Stupid I know, but it's me

You are writing on here, talking about how your wife seems to feel like you are putting her on a pedestal.

She isn't happy. You seem to want to make her happy.

The only person whose behavior you can change is you. That is it.

If you keep doing the same thing again amd again nothing will change. If you change your behavior - say, stop paying for women - something might change. As it is, this is what you have.

Next, your wife voided the marriage contract. She went against the terms of the contract. If you still want to honor the terms of the contract, that is your choice. It seems to make you miserable though. If a business partner stole money from you, you would see a lawyer and get out of the contract because the contract had been voided.

As for her not workong. First.why iant she? It doesnt make sense. She doesn't want to be treated like a princess? Princesses don't work. Regular people do.

And if you're married, in my state any money that goes into a joint account is marital property. So if she pays for dinner from a joint account, you're not paying.

But also. If she doesn't like how you're treating her, SHE should act differently. If she doesn't want you paying, she should get a job. And you can stop taking her out to eat. Stop doing things for her.

You say you like doing things for her. Well. If SHE doesnt like it, what is the point? And if she does like it but likes to complain, that is immature and she should live with those consequences.

Do I stop treating her like royalty and instead treat her like a peasant?

Why does it have to be the extremes? Perhaps just treat her like a normal person, people on pedestals tend to feel enormous pressure to be perfect, even if that wasn't the initial intent.

Duplicate - sorry

[This message edited by Carissima at 2:45 AM, October 20th (Tuesday)]

IMO, in order to be in a healthy relationship, it has to be a true partnership. Not like a business situation, but a real emotional partnership. That means that things like dinners and vacations and expensive gifts don’t form the core of your life together. Sure, if you have the means and enjoy those things, make them part of your life. But, those things won’t sustain a relationship. You both have to show kindness and respect and when one is down, the other steps in to take the wheel. You have to listen and understand where each other is coming from. You have to be unafraid to have difficult conversations. Otherwise, it’s all just fluff.

FWIW, I earn enough to buy myself whatever I want. I can put myself on a pedestal and treat myself on a regular basis. But, the thing I crave the most doesn’t cost a thing - I would trade in my career and my salary if I had a true partner in life and someone that I could consider a real companion. Someone who really listened to me and loved me unconditionally. These days, anything less seems to devalue me as a person. My exWh acted like I should be on a pedestal and to me, that meant I should shut up and know my place. There was a small part of him that resented me for being in the same career and earning as much money as he did. He didn’t want to be my equal, he wanted to be superior. There was one time that he told me to “go stand in the corner and look pretty.”

Similar to other posters, I also don’t see why there has to be a choice between a princess and a pauper. Those are two wildly different extremes that aren’t going to work. What is it that you want from her? Is it just that you want her to smile when you buy her a new handbag? How is that making you happy? Does she act grateful when you do that or does she reciprocate with her own act of kindness? If not, what’s the point? Like everyone, you want to be appreciated and loved and heard. Most of all, you want your spouse to act like you matter. Like your thoughts and feelings and dreams really matter. Putting her on a pedestal knowing that she doesn’t care or won’t reciprocate actually makes it seem like whatever she thinks or does really doesn’t matter as long as she flashes a smile. And, at the same time, her reaction and aversion to that treatment also signals that whatever you do doesn’t matter. Is that what you want? Business partnerships are different. I could be partners with a complete asshole as long as he/she helped grow the business and bring in the money. An intimate partnership requires so much more. Why are you willing to settle?

It’s not about being unkind, callous or depriving a woman. It’s about not constantly kissing her butt.

You keep airing juxtaposed false dichotomies of two extremes that seem to miss the point.

[This message edited by Thumos at 7:57 AM, October 20th (Tuesday)]

I think a woman who knows her own true self-worth doesn't want to be artificially inflated by being "put on a pedestal."

She wants to be valued for who she is and what she brings to the relationship. She wants to be loved and encouraged and supported. She wants to be free to give the same to her partner. Kindness and gentleness to and with each other should be limitless, and should never be withheld as a "punishment;" (that is the way of the manipulative folks among us).

I don't think there are two methods of treatment: royalty and peasant. I think that there is a large range in between. However, 36, I believe in your particular case, there is an element of "unsafe" for you in your relationship with her. Therefore, I feel you may be struggling at times to figure out where you go from here. How you navigate this "unsafeness" with her. What you expect from her. What you feel comfortable giving from yourself. It sets up a dynamic that I feel is sometimes frustrating for you. But I respect your choice. No one can live your life but you.

I define partnership in a relationship as equal emotional investment in the support, nurturing and growth of said relationship. In a marriage, there should be roughly equal effort (over time) into the relationship. The relationship should be something held up between both people as something to guard from harm, something to nurture and grow and something to continue to cherish. It's not about who has the largest bank account or who earns more money (shades of my ex with this one--he thought he should be able to make unilateral decisions that affected both of us because he was the primary breadwinner).

Just my rambling thoughts, 36. Glad to hear some good news on the eyesight front as well.

Cat

Whether she earns or not she probably has a credit card , its the principle of the thing . She isnt in love with you ( i think ) so your showering her with love makes the marriage worse not better because you aren't respecting her boundaries

There are millions of women in the world who would appreciate you for who you are . The choice you made is a choice that requires you to change into someone else ( a guy who goes Dutch) to be with someone who isnt in love with you

in a way that isnt unhealthy .

36, my question here for you is: why do YOU feel compelled to always pay? Why do YOU feel like you need to put her on a pedestal despite her specifically not wanting that?

Look, there's not a thing wrong with being generous. I am too. But generosity without reciprocation is not necessarily healthy. I can and have given money to a homeless person or a charitable cause - I do that because I have it to give and I do so without the expectation of a return.

But I give time and love and energy to my friends and family too. I do that without 'expecting' a return, but I also know that I can ask for their time and energy when I need them and they will give me that back. If they don't, then I adjust what I am willing to give to them. Not to be mean, but to protect my own spirit.

With my xwh, I gave and gave and gave some more. Money, time, energy, love you name it, I gave it - freely and willingly. But if I'm honest, he really never reciprocated or showed gratitude and appreciation for me. I didn't or chose not to acknowledge that for a long time, but subconsciously it built up a LOT of resentment in me. When dday happened, that resentment about did me in; not only did he act like a spoiled ungrateful child, but then he cheated on me on top of it?? The cheating part was all on him, but I really had to face my own shit too - that I continued to give for as long as I did to someone who didn't appreciate me. THAT was a 'me' issue. And fwiw, no longer having that internal resentment piling up has been one of the really great unexpected benefits of being by myself - I truly didn't realize what a toll it took on me until I was out from under it. I'll never stop being a giver because it is in my nature to be so, but I am a lot more discerning nowadays with who I give to because imho it is way too easy for generous and giving people to get themselves into situations where that generosity is taken for granted. It doesn't mean I treat people like 'peasants', just that I no longer feel the drive to give so freely, especially when I know that to do so wouldn't be healthy for me.

Should there be a limit to kindness and gentleness?

As for money, should my money be mine and her money be hers?

As for dates and vacations should those be limited to fast food and motel 6?

If I do too much it means I am trying too hard? Do I respond by doing much less?

Do I stop treating her like royalty and instead treat her like a peasant?

Two things, bro.

First, you're setting up false dichotomies.

Second, and way more important, 'shoulds' are real problems.

How do you want to treat her? How does she want to be treated. How does she treat you? How do you want to be treated?

If there are differences between how you both want to be treated and how you treat each other, can you figure out how to get from one to the other? Are you willing to change? Is your W willing to change?

Someone might like to be treated to high end restaurant meals. Taking that person to the best steak house in the world sounds like a great idea ... but it's a lousy idea if that someone is a vegetarian.

You're looking for rules, 36, and there aren't many. In a relationship, you need to communicate to make the relationship good.

36, my question here for you is: why do YOU feel compelled to always pay?

I think I have a psychological issue with it. I believe it stems back to an experience I had as a teenager when I was invited out by a group of friends and when it came time to pay the bill they didn't have money.

I paid for everybody and for some reason it has stuck with me. I was embarrassed for them and for myself. This particular quirk of mine developed then. It is uncomfortable for me to get through a dinner or other event with friends and not pay.

Why do YOU feel like you need to put her on a pedestal despite her specifically not wanting that?

She claimed, prior to D-day that she didn't want that. I think it was her guilt beginning to leak out. She wants to be treated special and I enjoy doing positive things for her.

There's a big difference between treating someone right and putting them on a pedestal.

Is she unsatisfied with how or how much she contributes to the relationship?

Are you?

Those questions might bare more answers if you discuss with her.

It is uncomfortable for me to get through a dinner or other event with friends and not pay.

I think that is a feeling worth exploring for you. Generosity is a wonderful trait. But IMHO what you said here... that's not generosity. If you are doing these things because you feel uncomfortable otherwise that's a different beast.

Why do you feel uncomfortable? What would happen if you did not pay or offered to split the bill? Are you worried somehow people would think less of you?

Why do you feel uncomfortable? What would happen if you did not pay or offered to split the bill? Are you worried somehow people would think less of you?

This is a good question. No, I'm not worried that people would think less of me. I am not sure why it bothers me so much. Time for a shrink?