SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

TD I can relate to so much that you say and I think I am 10 months further on than you are. Ultimately I don't know what I want anymore. My mind changes regularly. I can say that the extra time has given me back my confidence and self esteem that was yanked away on DD. I know that stay or go I've still got to process what has happened. Maybe that does indeed get easier with the years, but who wants to spend anymore time in a miserable place. It's hard to just live for today when your mind constantly reminds you how someone can destroy you so easily. I too feel maybe I had indeed switched off prior to DD that I was implementing 180 and already had my coat on. It scares me to see that now but it's probably very true. How do you get off that hamster wheel and keep the smile in place we all want that answer.

@wintergarden thanks for the reply. I don’t think I was doing the 180 or already had my coat on as such I think in hindsight my WGF has switched off from our relationship a while ago and after a while without knowing it I started reflecting her lack of affection back at her. I was essentially having an affair with myself to fill the void left after she had checked out. On The surface everything was rosy, I didnt know anything was wrong.

It doesn’t excuse what she did one iota but I can tell from the relationship we have now that our pre A relationship could have been so much better.

The abuse of infidelity was exceptional in its destruction. I want to see some exceptional work toward recovery and every day living.

What a great post! I'm not in R, but this is exactly what would have needed to happen in order for me to successfully R. My STBX failed miserably at this and I held onto hope for too long until I cut the rope.

What is she doing, well quite frankly she is love bombing the shit out of me and wishing it hadn’t happened because “that’s not who she is”.

That sounds terribly familiar. My FWW was very similar. Love bombing aside, she was quite insistent that "it's not who I am" and "I'm not that person."

The truth, of course, was that she did cheat. It was who she was. She was that person. I'm quite sure I reminded her of those facts on multiple occasions (and probably not all that polite about it).

Do not blame yourself, TwoDozen. Nothing you ever said or didn't say, nothing you ever did or didn't do, would have made any difference at all. People cheat because they're "broken." Whatever issues your WGF has that lead her down Infidelity Lane are hers and hers alone. It's got nothing at all to do with you.

WGF is still very much conflict avoidant / discussion avoidant

People who tend to avoid conflict first and foremost avoid the conflicts within themselves. I speak from experience. I had a tendency to avoid conflict until my FWW gave me a conflict I couldn't avoid.

It's often written on these boards and others that if you really want to save your marriage (relationship) you've got to be wiling to risk it's end.

In other words, maybe it's time to give your WGF a conflict she can't avoid.

About six months after d-day, having finally taken the advice of SI members, I made IC for her a condition of reconciliation. I simply told her to make an appointment with an IC or a divorce lawyer; the choice was hers.

That sounds terribly familiar. My FWW was very similar. Love bombing aside, she was quite insistent that "it's not who I am" and "I'm not that person."

The truth, of course, was that she did cheat. It was who she was. She was that person. I'm quite sure I reminded her of those facts on multiple occasions (and probably not all that polite about it).

I was possibly more polite than you then asking “who was it then, if it wasn’t you”?

Do not blame yourself, TwoDozen. Nothing you ever said or didn't say, nothing you ever did or didn't do, would have made any difference at al

I don’t blame myself anymore, I’ve come to realise over the last 10 months that I’m a catch, a unicorn, that I am the prize. She knows this too but if she ever changes her mind again she is free to leave, I will help her pack.

That sounds terribly familiar. My FWW was very similar. Love bombing aside, she was quite insistent that "it's not who I am" and "I'm not that person."

The truth, of course, was that she did cheat. It was who she was. She was that person. I'm quite sure I reminded her of those facts on multiple occasions (and probably not all that polite about it).

To me, this is part of the problem waywards have in confronting themselves. They aren't split personalities, but they have used a strategy over their lives of walling off their dark side and denying it exists. This also means that eventually that dark homunculus they've got locked in the closet of their minds bursts out in an escape attempt and does some awful and toxic things.

I would warrant most faithful spouses are simply more self-aware, which makes most faithful generally more empathetic and with higher emotional intelligence.

We know we've got some dark shit lurking around in there and we don't try to reject it as "that's not who I am." We don't feed it, but we don't pretend it's not part of us either.

I think you nailed it with the “having an affair with yourself to fill the void” thing 3 to 5 yrs later if you still have a void where a good partner should be thats probably when she needs to pack her bags even if she hasnt cheated again

[This message edited by siracha at 11:18 AM, November 2nd (Monday)]

I think in hindsight my WGF has switched off from our relationship a while ago and after a while without knowing it I started reflecting her lack of affection back at her

Yes, this is what I agree with. I feel I did the same too, it was my copying mechanism for something I didn't understand but felt wasn't right or good. I switched off from what he was doing and just got on with my life on my own. Much like the 180 but without ever having heard that expression.

Maybe that's partly why I know I can cope on my own, I feel I've done it for so long in the past. Today is different it's like it used to be so I'm very confused what is reality and what is wishful thinking.

It looks like your W has very serious self-esteem problems.

The giant red flag, IMO, is the 'beauty' crap. We all age. None of us can turn back the clock.

Her need for ego kibbles is another giant red flag. IDK ... I loved my W, even after d-day, but I didn't see how my reassuring her of anything was good for me or for our relationship.

Another is avoiding conflict. You can't R if she won't raise issues and resolve them, and some of the issues will require resolving conflict with you.

I recommend that when she starts IC that you insist she sign a release that allows her IC to speak with you about her sessions. I think you'd be well within your rights to make sure she's addressing her low SE in her therapy. If she won't admit to lousy self esteem and commit to changing that, I think you'll be in for crashes if you try R.

@wintergarden I don’t think this is uncommon tbh. I’m sure more than a few on here, if they look back will see the signs they missed at the time. Looking back I can say with absolute certainty that she drifted away from me and not the other way round as she sees it. Sadly she now sees me actually drifting away from her now but is in denial and isn’t doing anything to anchor the boat and stop it. The tide is getting stronger.

@Sissoon totally agree, I’d hate to think I was pairing a worse picture of WGF than the reality but It s probably the other way around. My IC continually tells me to stop defending her, like every session. Anyway I refer you to my response to unhinged in a previous post.

@unhinged thanks for the words of encouragement. At the moment as I sit on my fence I can see the 2 pastures but neither are green at the moment. I am feeding and watering both until I see which one bursts into life.

But somehow my decision feels worse, mine is forever not just a few stolen moments of ego boost

Her decision is also forever. We are all the sum of our acts. The factual reality of her A, that is an element of her, forever. It will also be an element of your relationship, forever, if you choose to stay together. She invited another man into your relationship. His imprint is there and will remain. It may fade and diminish over time. In the meantime, one of the decision points for you is whether you're willing to accept a relationship with her, and this other man.

Remaining in limbo is also a forever decision. Part of what you do as a parent is model, for your children, what a relationship/marriage looks like. If you live day-to-day in a dreamlike state, not fully happy, unfulfilled, that's the life's model your child will perceive as the appropriate one.

Her why’s are simply that she was unhappy. That’s as far as she has dug but ultimately even though I did not know it at the time I can see the signs now, building up over many years. Resentment built up on very small things (I mean really small things) that she never mentioned upset her, followed by aging, feeling old, losing her job then getting far too drunk in the company of someone who was not only a predator but that she’d already unbeknown to me crossed many boundaries with ie talking about our relationship (for years) sharing concerns with him that she hadn’t shared with me and sending each other post gym pics so they could boost each other’s moral etc.

I agree with unhinged, make a comfortable spot on the fence and take care of yourself.

FWIW, I started off the same way as you describe - love bombing. sex bombing, not really having my whys but knowing I was unhappy. Knowing the surface stuff on what happened. And, yes I was conflict avoidant, go with the flow, hustle for love, etc.

At some point she has to take accountability for the fact she was unhappy because she never took responsibility for her own happiness. She put it on other people. Her resentments are her fault for not speaking up and getting her needs met, and for expecting you to read her mind. People fall into the trap of thinking "if they loved me they would do this, or notice that". No, that's not how it works, everyone has their own ways of looking at things and it's not proof. And in an adult relationship, we have to express our needs and try to do the best we can to meet what we can of each others.

But, she also has to be motivated to go beneath the surface. And, often that's where ego, shame and other things can be very inhibiting. Someone who already inherently feels like a failure, who has now been outed for unacceptable behavior and has a lot of shame about that, finds it hard to look for more flaws or proof of their own unworthiness. But, what they don't understand by getting to the root of those things and recognizing where they come from and behaving and thinking differently is how they will find their worthiness. It's hard, I can not express how difficult that struggle is.

But, it doesn't mean that you have to stay around for it, accept it, or wait for it to change. You are under no obligation how you proceed.

Your post helped me tremendously btw. I am just starting to recognize the BS parts of this and it's difficult for me to change gears after all these years of the type of work I was doing. Your post put me in touch with some of the nuances that I was experiencing and not recognizing. Thank you for sharing it.

Part of what you do as a parent is model, for your children, what a relationship/marriage looks like. If you live day-to-day in a dreamlike state, not fully happy, unfulfilled, that's the life's model your child will perceive as the appropriate one.

You are probably right, you see I am the one from the broken home and she is the one from the “intact” FOO albeit with a mother who will probably have “I should’ve left your father years ago” etched on her tombstone

make a comfortable spot on the fence and take care of yourself.

Physically I’m in the best shape of my life. Mentally well I can say I was a lot worse 10 months ago. Onwards and upwards.

Your post helped me tremendously btw. I am just starting to recognize the BS parts of this and it's difficult for me to change gears after all these years of the type of work I was doing. Your post put me in touch with some of the nuances that I was experiencing and not recognizing. Thank you for sharing it.

Wow that means a lot to me coming from yourself. Whatever it was I wrote, that helped, you’re welcome.

A question to those who are following this post and would consider themselves decided one way or the other.

To those in R have you honestly been able to jump down off the fence completely and wholeheartedly or do you sometimes still peer over the fence and keep an eye on the D/S pasture from time to time?

Same question to those who jumped into the D/S pasture. Do you occasionally look over at the R pasture and wonder or lament?

Before the A I can sincerely say I was 100% in and I am interested to hear if it’s ever possible to be 100% one way or the other or even with any other new person following the trauma of infidelity.

I’m not expecting to buck any trends so if the mean answer is no you only ever get to 90% or whatever number at least I know what to expect and not beat myself up for falling short of 💯

Thanks as always 2D

I’m very happy with my choice to rebuild my marriage into something worthy of my time and effort.

I would say it took me two years to be ‘all in’ on my decision. But, I’m just not built to second guess — with any of my decisions in life. I despise playing ‘what if’ or getting stuck too long in a moment.

Even if this marriage blows up tomorrow, for whatever reason, I’m glad I went this route. I had to be able to look myself in the mirror and say, I gave it my best shot.

I’ll never be okay with why and how we had to build this thing back up from complete destruction, but life to me, is way too short to hedge my bets. I go all in with any choice, be it a job, or a relationship.

It certainly takes two. I imagine if my wife had hesitated along the way or if she spent time on the fence, I’d be single. And I’d be fine solo as well.

@Oldwounds thanks for the response

I would say it took me two years to be ‘all in’ on my decision. But, I’m just not built to second guess — with any of my decisions in life. I despise playing ‘what if’ or getting stuck too long in a moment.

4 years ago I left a company I had been employed at for almost 20 years. I actually almost left a number of times in the 4 years prior but didn’t pull the trigger. To this day I still regret that decision to leave. Just to paint a picture of the kind of guy I am. I wouldn’t say I am like this with every decision, in fact at work I am the “decision maker” and generally with everyday stuff I make decisions easily and quickly with very little procrastination but these life changing decisions, well f*ck me am I terrible at making them.

Your original post resonated with me as well. I know it was hard, but thank you for sharing it.

Speaking from personal experience. Sitting on the fence was more like sitting on a wooden horse torture device (basically your own body weight cutting you in half over time). In my case, I put the wooden horse underneath myself, not my ex-wife's affair. I put so much unnecessary pressure on myself about making a decision, that it just about killed me. So I bailed into the divorce grass. Was divorce the right or wrong decision?.....only time will tell I suppose. I can definitely look back and say I wasn't really ready to make that call. My situation as a MH definitely complicates things, but......

If you can figure out a way to stay on that fence without applying any undue pressure on yourself. You will be much better for it, and you will probably make better choices.

Oh and the hamster in my noggin is in the best shape of his life. The poor bastard doesn't ever get a rest. Even after making a decision.

TD -

My wife makes a ton of business decisions a day, and when work is done, she doesn’t want to decide one more thing. So dinner, entertainment, travel and all that is deferred to me, and yet, she makes great work decisions and is paid well for it.

And this relationship stuff is never easy.

I wouldn’t rush it, as I said, it took me two freakin’ years to make the call for me.

It becomes about the life you want.

In my case, since my wife hated her choices almost (almost) as much as me, it helped look at from a unique perspective. Even if I got the D (which is always an option now), I could get with someone else who cheats or hurts me in a different way. I feel like my wife has learned a lot and more important a lot about herself. She is sort of pre-disastered. A line I stole from the World According to Garp film.

I like the odds of where we are going versus where we have been.

Anyway, I have no idea if any of my ramblings help or not, but again, there is no rush, no time table for your decision. Just jump in with both feet with the direction you choose.

To those in R have you honestly been able to jump down off the fence completely and wholeheartedly or do you sometimes still peer over the fence and keep an eye on the D/S pasture from time to time?

When I thought I was in R yes I would still peek over at the D/S Pasture.

Same question to those who jumped into the D/S pasture. Do you occasionally look over at the R pasture and wonder or lament?

I know without a doubt now that R will never happen and i made the right decision to S. I'm no longer plagued by the infidelity, being around the perpetrator or have to deal with any emotional abuse like gaslighting and blameshifting. I wish I S earlier I just didn't want my kids to come from a broken home even though it had been broken already.

To those in R have you honestly been able to jump down off the fence completely and wholeheartedly or do you sometimes still peer over the fence and keep an eye on the D/S pasture from time to time?

Note that I'm almost 10 years out. Although R wasn't easy, because we had issues to resolve, but there were no slip-ups by either of us.

I committed to R after observing my W and myself for 90 days. I knew I wanted R, and I believed that R was very likely to succeed, based on my observations.

Before committing to R, I treated every issue as requiring a stay/go decision.

After committing, I assumed that we will resolve every issue that comes up - and if we hit an issue we can't resolve, we can D.

Before committing, I did my best to create an image of a life after D that I would enjoy. I think I succeeded - but I wanted to R, and my W was a great candidate.

After committing, I think about my Plan B only when prompted by something I read on SI. I haven't forgotten it, but I wouldn't say I peek at it.

I'll say this: my Plan B involves some travel out of the US. We are watching some TV from my destination. The shows are filled with beautiful women. Plan B remains attractive. Even so, R still seems more attractive.