SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Question for the group, here's the assumption:

Wife of 21 years feels neglected, abandoned, and abused.

She falls for the temptation of a guy and has a fling, and it was one time PA.

It's a one and done, they never see each other again, she says she needs to tell me and let the chips fall where they may. She wants to stay married.

So I'm well aware that cheaters lie and you can't be sure of the whole story etc. but if we assume it is true...

21 years before cheating, one night of weakness followed by regret.

I'm looking for anyone with knowledge of a pattern or a "type" or anything that would suggest she likely to, or likely not, to cheat again.

Not to harp on it, but opposed to a cheater who doesn't even make it a year into being married, yeah, they're probably going to cheat again.

But in my case, just looking for opinions.

Hi - I am a WS, and I think I will take a stab at this for you.

First, it doesn't matter if it was just a one night stand. It would be maybe easier to understand or rugsweep, but you need to know your wife has work she needs to do on herself to make herself a safer partner. I would say that those who do that sort of work, and really take accountability for what they did, and is empathetic and remorseful are a better bet.

When a WS has an affair several things are present:

-They felt a false sense of entitlement for some reason to do it (I work harder, I make more money, I don't ever get what I want)

-They have boundary issues with the opposite sex, and probably boundary issues in general

-They don't believe cheating is wrong in all circumstances

-They are able to compartmentalize to such a degree that they were able to not make you a consideration in their decision.

-Often they have complaints about the marriage they also used to fuel that feeling of false entitlement and they need to learn to communicate their needs and feelings as well as let go of resentments.

That's at a minimum. I stopped there because I am familiar with your story. For many others there are way more issues - history of lies, justifying the affair to such a degree that they villianize the BS, gaslighting, other abusive actions and words, and I could really make this list long if I wanted to.

I kept it basic for the idea that I know your wife had a one night stand, confessed immediately, etc. I would probably be in your camp that I wouldn't be willing to throw away a 21 year marriage right out of the gate.

But, your wife needs to go to IC and figure out the deeper issues - the whys, the hows, get really honest about her blind spots and be willing to do anything that you require and beyond.

Phone transparency, removing friendships that would support this type of behavior, considering whether Girls Night outs are still on the table and in what capacity. For the record, I do go out with the girls and have mostly since my affair. But, these are people my husband knows, did not know and would not have supported my affair, and we are talking dinners where I am home usually no later than 10 or 11. I am actually usually in by 9 but occasionally I will go to trivia or there will be some sort of live music. I am not on lockdown, those things are actually things I just did without prompting. I do not feel stifled by them because what it most important to me is that my husband feels secure with my movements, that I do not cause him further stress or alarm or trigger feelings I gave him during my affair.

So, I am giving you these examples to say this:

Yes, the type of person I would gamble on (and I am currently doing this) is the person who can see how much they have hurt you and does everything they can think of to try and make it up. They dedicated to working on themselves so it doesn't happen again - and I am talking long term work, IC, dedication to reading and learning about themselves, and shows nothing but unwavering commitment to you and the marriage above everything else.

And, even some of those people will cheat again.

So, here is the second part of my advice: Quietly and logically develop an exit strategy. Not because you know you will use it but so you have peace of mind of what you will do if you catch them breaking their agreements or God Forbid cheating again. Work to heal yourself and protect yourself. When you do these things, you will find you are no longer committed to one specific outcome, and that you will actually be fine with whatever happens.

That sounds cold and calculating, but it's needed. Don't rugsweep this, if you go that route I think it increases your chances of it happening again and worse.

I want R with my H, and I believe (mostly) that he wants R with me. If he consistently shows me that over a long period of time, I am willing to move forward. If I catch him lying, talking to anyone inappropriately, or get any whiff that he's not in this to win it, then I will divorce him. I don't want to do that, I do want to be with him. I just won't do it at my expense. I wouldn't want him to do it at his either. This is just not something that someone can say Whoops I am sorry and all is good with the world. This takes a lot of time, effort, and change.

IMO, based on what few facts you shared, your wife is high risk.

Why? Because lots of spouses feel neglected, abandoned, and abused - but they did not decide to have a fling. Feeling neglected, abandoned, and abused is her excuse - but does not identify/fix the character flaw that permitted inappropriate behavior.

In addition, from your other post she doesn't react negatively to infidelity on TV.

IMO her bold in your face response is evidence that she defines marriage as including as least some infidelity - and minimizes to herself the trauma she caused you.

In addition it's evidence she lacks empathy for you as a victim of infidelity.

Sometimes a 'confession' is selfish. In view of her excuse (basically she was angry at you) and her minimizing comments that fail to acknowledge the trauma she caused you, is it possible that she confessed in order to hurt you?

I meant to also say that you will not know for a long time if she is R material. WS don't change their stripes in a week, or a month. If you choose to try and stay together, I would recommend reading the 180 and try some of the detachment techniques there. You need to protect yourself while you watch and wait if that's what you are deciding to do.

After you watch and wait for a few months, spend more time learning about this, and learning to detach, then make a decision about R. There is no reason you need to decide today.

It took me probably 8-10 months to show I was going to be R material. I am not saying that's a good thing, but it's an honest thing.

There are no guarantees. While those that lie easily, are narcissistic, selfish, and immature are more likely to cheat again, there are no guarantees that someone who does not possess these qualities will never do it again. Our MC guaranteed me that my ex-WW would never cheat on me again. Ha! Of course, all the warning signs were there. I still feel that a component of your wife's cheating and immediate confession was to hurt you and maybe even force you to end the marriage. At least on a subconscious level, this may have been the case. This may be her weapon of choice, again, on an unconscious level.

Once a cheater always a cheater is pretty much dead on, in my opinion. Might be some exceptions, but that's like saying most people who gamble go broke. Some become rich, most lose everything.

There will come a time when the marriage/relationship is going through trouble (boredom, stress, fights, etc.), and the need to scratch that itch will become intolerable for them.

A lot of people on this site reject this belief for obvious reasons (this site is extremely pro-reconciliation), but it's a time tested truth.

Monogamy is not in our nature, society condones female infidelity, our (western) culture is predicated on creating it (we have a very promisicous, materialistic culture), and our law institutions (divorce court) in many ways rewards it.

Outside of your own core personal values/morals (which are instilled in us via our environments/home cultures), there just is no reason not to cheat, really. Most of us Westerners are at a deficit when it comes to morals/values at the best of times. Once one makes that leap of committing infidelity, it becomes ingrained into them.

hiking:

Thank you so much, very helpful.

Although she has acted trustworthy and openly (she allows me to track her phone, and I haven't whiffed any lies), I have been somewhat mentally preparing for a divorce, mostly because I get such mixed messages from her that it really difficult to trust her intentions.

is it possible that she confessed in order to hurt you?

I would not have thought so, but then again I guess I don't know her as well as I thought I did.

Rizer:

Point taken, and well said.

Almost every cheater makes an excuse to do it or they’re so sociopathic they don’t care, but a betrayed spouse has many different reactions. Some are so gutted that they never recover and the marriage comes to a screeching halt. Some are in pain but are willing to listen. Some accept it because the marriage is dead anyway. You see why that’s a very hard question to answer. Every family that has had infidelity has the same dialogue for the most part but they are all still different. Age, sex, families of origin, life experiences make it difficult for anyone to make a prophecy. Is your wife a habitual liar? Does she have fluid boundaries? You need to answer the question of what kind of person is your wife in her day-to-day life. If you’ve had underlying questions about her ethics then you might be on guard. If she’s been a pretty upstanding person then the question is what made her make such a stupid decision.

I'd recommend the book "The Science of Happily Ever After" which summarizes many scientific studies that have been done on relationships. I haven't read it since 2014 and checked it out of the library, so there might be more recent books out there, and I can't quote you anything other than the few sentences that really resonated in my case, and I will spare you those!

I think will she cheat again is just the first question - the more important one is even assuming she never cheats again, can you have a happy relationship together. There are plenty of terrible relationships with no infidelity. The sad stat I remember from that book is that only about 30% of long-term relationships are ones that would be considered happy/healthy. So many people stay for other reasons - financial stability, for the kids, fear of change, etc.

I'd already divorced my WXH when I read this book, but I remember several times thinking that had I read this book before we were married, I never would have married him, as it clarified how damaging much of his behavior was. Or at least hopefully I would have been smart enough to break things off with him.

There definitely are characteristics and personality traits that make people unsuitable partners. And while people can learn to change their behavior, they can't change who they are at the core. This book helped me figure out what I wanted in a partner and I've recommended it often here as well as to many real life friends going through tough relationship times.

So while there is no way to definitively say whether she will cheat again (though it's likely she will given that past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior), this book should help you objectively look at the situation to determine if her basic character is one that makes her a good bet for trying.

How about you ask her if she will ever do it again?

Will you do it again? What if you feel neglected? What if you feel abandoned? What if you feel abused? What if the guy is super attractive?

What if all of those happen at the same time while you are on vacation for a girls weekend and drunk?

You won't always be able to control the outside factors, but she should have a handle on whether or not she can maintain her boundaries under pressure. And after having experienced it once and establishing her boundaries in a more explicit fashion, then maybe she will understand that there are no conditions where she will give herself permission. If there are conditions... Well, you are at a pretty strong risk of a repeat.

This isn't a complete list by any means. An article I read recently postulated that a few qualities of a partner that can indicate a higher likelihood of cheating. They were:

-higher likelihood of cheating again if cheated previously

-there was a positive association with cheating

-if not fully committed to their relationships

and - less concerned or appalled with cheating would be more likely to cheat.

Seems your WW might be described here.

Hikingout and others gave you a lot of things to think about but properly pointed out that there is absolutely no way you anyone here can predict with anything but a guess . The guru that can foresee with any certainty whether or not someone will cheat again will dwarf Zuckerberg in income in no time.

For my two cents , your wife exhibited two really bad signs

(1) she didn’t cheat on a girls trip. You friggin daughter was with her . According to your posts, your Ww flirted and hung around with this guy enough for her to accept an invitation to his room,. She didn’t bang into him in the hallway and say “let’s go fuck”. You mean to tell me your daughter and wife were not together while this flirting was going on. Not to many women would be developing a fling with their adult daughter present .

(2) her behavior after the confession has been atrocious. She doesn’t get to decide that you’re not talking about it. You decide that .

Isotherm her attitude I’d sure be wanting to know without a doubt that this has not happened before . And I know exactly how I’d get as sure as possible on that one.

....society condones female infidelity, our (western) culture is predicated on creating it (we have a very promisicous, materialistic culture), and our law institutions (divorce court) in many ways rewards it.

Interesting POV, Rizer. Although you fail to mention that male infidelity has been tolerated in the vast majority of cultures throughout recorded history. It's only recently that males are held to the same standards of fidelity as women have always been. Not that I'm arguing that women should be doing more cheating. I'm not. Our western culture has just evened up the playing field though so that both genders are treated the same.

I don't believe "once a cheater, always a cheater". I believe people CAN change. Real change doesn't happen easily or overnight. People have to dig down deep and figure out what they really believe it. They have to get in touch with their REAL core values, learn to honor what they believe, and then build boundaries around those values. But yeah... I do believe it happens.

I also believe that there are some people who can white knuckle it even when those parameters above aren't met. IOW, never change a thing about their character and still refrain from cheating. I don't know that I would trust one like that, but do I believe one can have a wayward nature and not act on it? Sure. I think it probably happens more often than what we think. My WH had shitty boundaries all during our marriage. But he didn't physically cheat for more than 30 years.

Based off your story and your wife’s behavior…… it’s not if it’s when, she steps out again.

And even if she does not, the way she has acted after her confession has been horrid. Personally I do not think she’s reconciliation material.

I'm looking for anyone with knowledge of a pattern or a "type" or anything that would suggest she likely to, or likely not, to cheat again.

This is by no means scientific or foolproof or anything else, but I have seen this played out over several relationships.

I believe there are two types of people who cheat.

Type 1: This type are those for whom cheating is wholly out of character. Perhaps it was a perfect storm of sorts. You see this with one-night stands but also with affairs where someone might, say, be struggling with feelings of grief for a loss or a mid-life crisis of sorts. In short, these people got bowled over temporarily in an ONS or brief affair because of an intersection of vulnerability and opportunity.

These people, generally, are good candidates for reconciliation because they tend to be genuinely horrified about what they have done. I see your wife coming clean vs. you discovering this to be a very positive indication. It still doesn't take away your pain, nor does it diminish the very hard work she will have to do if you choose to give her the gift of reconciliation, but it is a positive indication nonetheless.

The second type of person is someone who is habitually deceptive. These people not only cheat on their spouses, but they fudge expense reports, cheat on their taxes, lie about other things to their spouse, family and friends. These sorts of people, as you might expect, are poor candidates for reconciliation because they not only have to heal the damage from the affair, but they have to address some very fundamental issues within themselves and work very hard to become an honest and transparent person. For someone who has a lifetime of deceit behind them, this is a tall order. Reconciliation with these types is generally not achievable.

I hope you find that helpful. It's very, very broadly general, but I do think in looking not just at actions surrounding the affair but actions indicating what kind of person they are is helpful to add to everything else you're considering.

Cat

I see your wife coming clean vs. you discovering this to be a very positive indication.

I'm not so sure of that. Her behavior and lack of empathy after confessing doesn't line up with someone truly feeling guilty and remorseful about the A. Without evidence suggesting otherwise, I would really suspect she confessed to avoid 3rd party exposure over not being able to live with it. Daughter? AP?

Back to the original question, you can never rule out that your partner will have an A. That's what put most of us in a much worse place because we did and ignored red flags while our WS were actively in a A. There are those that can become safer partners even after an affair. That takes a lot of hard work and introspection. It takes the WS learning how to and becoming total open and transparent. The question is do you see effort and actions, not words, in your WS? Often that takes time. It's ok to bookmark this question and check back in six months and see if the needle has moved. If this is still a pressing question of yours in a year or two out, I'd be more into calling it dead and moving on. I'd also suggest taking actions that make it easier, or at least not more difficult, to extract yourself from the marriage. Separate finances. Avoid long term commitments etc.

I remember having read a survey that indicated that a person that has cheated once is something like 4-5 times more likely to cheat again that someone that hasn’t cheated is to cheat. (I don’t remember the exact numbers, but somewhere in that range).

That’s in line with all sorts of surveys that indicate that someone that has done something wrong or risky is more likely to do something like that again.

Once again; that’s in line with surveys that show that people that disrespect one law (like illegal right turns at light) and get away with it are more likely to disrespect other laws like speeding.

Once again; that’s in line with surveys that show that those that start with one illegal substance (even underage alcohol) are more likely to go into another illegal substance (weed) and on to other harder illegal substances.

So is there a pattern that can tell you if she will cheat again? Well… the above survey would indicate the chances of her cheating again are higher than if she had never cheated.

What the survey didn’t answer is the RESPONSE of the WS after the first infidelity. In many ways your WW response would indicate she’s not necessarily likely to cheat again. Reading your posts its not as if she told you to cause you pain. She could have gone to her grave without telling you, and I don’t really see any direct profit for her in letting you know. Generally when that happens it’s the conscience that drives the confession.

Had this been for pain she would be gloating, talking about OM sexual powers, remaining in contact…

However…

And IMHO this is the six million dollar question:

She says the problem is NOT the affair but the marriage…

If that’s true and if she’s allowed to believe that then there is no way YOU can ever feel safe.

If the condition of your marriage made her think allowing this affair to develop is justified there is no way you can prevent future marital issues from making her feel a need to offer the postman a BJ.

What happens if you buy a blue car instead of the red one she wanted? Would that justify fondling the neighbor?

What if you decide to play golf on your Hawaii vacation? The pool boy fair game?

A KEY 100% NECESSARY FACTOR for reconciliation is accountability.

She has to realize and accept that NO MATTER WHAT the marriage was like her decision to have an affair was the totally wrong response. THAT is the issue. THAT wrecks trust, THAT creates pain. Things that need to be dealt with in order to then start working on the marriage.

THAT is the message you need to get across to her. In fact – if she ever again insists this is a marriage issue and not an infidelity issue then tell her right there and then that if she insists on that being true you two might just as well start talking divorce.

---

Once again we get the “once a cheater” mantra…

This site was founded by a couple where one was the BS and the other the WS. This site is found, moderated and guided by some that are waywards. When someone comes along and insists that once a cheater you are branded for life as a cheater, defined as a cheater, will inevitably cheat again… well… for me that’s like entering the home of a generous host, drinking his beer, double-dipping the nachos and then taking a dump in the middle of the living room.

Yes – many that cheat do so repeatedly. But people can change. They will always have cheated, even if it is eventually a one-off thing. But with the right attitude and aptitude and immense work people can change.

I remember having read a survey that indicated that a person that has cheated once is something like 4-5 times more likely to cheat again that someone that hasn’t cheated is to cheat. (I don’t remember the exact numbers, but somewhere in that range).

The longitudinal study I've seen is 3x more likely. Low N and the being a self survey question issue clouds the usefulness a bit. If I recall those who cheated and cheated in a 2nd relationship was around 15% which puts those who cheated without a history of it in the later relationship at 5%.