SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

As I read the posts, the things I wanted to say formed in my mind and I waited to finish reading to write. When I finally read 3yrsout's post, I saw that I didn't have to say anything. I totally agree with her. Emotions and expressions caused by her cheating on you do not make you a jerk.

Btw, I reread your story, and I didn't see anything about her or the AP quitting their jobs. Are they still working together?

Give yourself a break. From what little I know, you wife started fucking around as a newlywed. And you are only 8 mos from catching her pining for the om. And you are raising her kids. All at age 29.

A lot of guys would be gone, so the occasional mild snark seems a small price to pay. She should be demonstrating remorse, not shutting down.

Whats up SI,
Late reply but ill try and reply to what i read in no particular order.
But this new format on here got me all mixed up lol, barely got used to the old one.

So first, this past month and end of July we both started MC. One of the issues (on my part) that was brought up was that I bring up the A too much. What is too much you ask? I'ld say every day for the most part; whether it was a passing comment or a full on conversation. The MC 'challenged' me to not bring it up unless we are in session. So in my attempt to try this I found out how 'passive aggressive' I am.
No, I don't want her to shut down, and also no I'm not to invested in keeping her feelings from getting hurt either. Like some of you had said, many would've left already but I made a final decision to give R a solid chance.
It ain't easy tho, especially as a male, not to be sexist or shovenist but it seems easier for females to R but I honestly don't know. Most likely all BS are drowning in dark water.
The last time I caught her looking her AP was around July-Aug 2020ish. Since then I haven't but like I've said before, I'll never really know if she is or isn't. Part of the process seems to be letting go of control, something I do struggle with. I don't control her, I don't own her. She's gonna do what she wants and so far she has shown me that she wants me.
I've been brutally honest with her, and since our first failed MC I've learned to speak better to her i.e. 'I feel this way bc x y z' rather than being anger.
Yes I am still angry, some days are better than others but she hasn't quit. She has a good job and money to move out at any point.
Oh, her AP doesn't work at that company anymore. His XW made him quit then they split up last I checked. And yes I made sure he isn't there anymore otherwise my WW would've had to quit.
On that subject, she's been working from home this entire time but it looks like by the end of the year ish they may go back to the office and I'm not gonna lie, thats driving up my anxiety. But at the end of the day it dont matter where she ends up, right? If she steps out again she can do that anywhere...

Emotions and expressions caused by her cheating on you do not make you a jerk.

That's some SERIOUSLY flawed thinking. You don't get to act like a raging toddler just because you're angry about something someone did. Yeah, no. Own your shit and act right.

So first, this past month and end of July we both started MC. One of the issues (on my part) that was brought up was that I bring up the A too much. What is too much you ask? I'ld say every day for the most part; whether it was a passing comment or a full on conversation. The MC 'challenged' me to not bring it up unless we are in session. So in my attempt to try this I found out how 'passive aggressive' I am.

Does your MC have experience with infidelity? It is vitally important that they do or they tend to co-sign Wayward thinking. I see some of that in your post. My therapist, who had a lot of experience with infidelity, told my husband that he would have to man up and bear witness to my pain. He should not respond with any sort of rationalization or excuse, for there are none. He was told that he needed to do whatever it took to help me heal as a consequence to his actions. HE was responsible for the trauma I had to deal with. Period.

You have a right to feel pain. You have a right to discuss the affair in order to process it, which helps you heal. It is not your WS' right to put limitations on your healing. Her actions are the cause of the destruction of your sense of safety and the "precious us" in the marriage. SHE CHOSE to blow up your life. The fact that you cannot express your feelings might be the reason you are being passive aggressive. I screamed and cried and triggered my way through at least two years of healing, but I was allowed to heal in the way I needed to. Your WS' opinion of what your behavior should be as a reaction to HER actions is not relevant. Not really her business. She lost the right to an opinion of your behavior when she cheated. HER business is to prove that she is worthy of being married to you. That's it.

Jaybee2020, how long have you been in R?

So first, this past month and end of July we both started MC. One of the issues (on my part) that was brought up was that I bring up the A too much. What is too much you ask? I'ld say every day for the most part; whether it was a passing comment or a full on conversation. The MC 'challenged' me to not bring it up unless we are in session. So in my attempt to try this I found out how 'passive aggressive' I am.

If you haven't been in R for long, only talking about the A in counseling doesn't seem like enough. Does it feel like enough to you?

The next time you talk to anyone about anything, ask yourself during or after, ask yourself, am I communicating or am I manipulating. Am I trying to pass some information, or am I trying to put them into a certain feeling-state?

I love this quote from HouseofPlane, and I think you'd be really wise to re-read his entire post and adopt his advice on that. I also agree with 13yearsR that only being allowed to talk in therapy isn't enough talking. I suspect that your MC isn't convinced the two of you can communicate effectively on your own. Maybe it's avoidance on your WS's part, maybe its that passive-aggressive snark you've found yourself dealing with. Either way, it's going to tank your R. Talking is healing. And what I really loved about the litmus test that HoP recommended to you is that it cuts through the bullshit and asks you to be earnest. I'm guessing you're NOT okay with the way you've been dealing with this so far, hence the thread. It's so easy when we're angry to engage in casual cruelty, but you know, I've never been one who could enjoy the look on my WS's face when my worst barb found its mark. If your WS is truly remorseful, it's like kicking a puppy, right? Why stay if the person you're becoming isn't someone you want to be?

So, if you implement HoP's technique, it might go a very long way toward cleaning up your communications. Also, try typing into your browser, "the four horseman, Gottman", and then read all the information you can find there. In a nutshell, The Four Horseman are Criticism, Contempt, Defensiveness, and Stonewalling, and these are the communications pitfalls that will destroy your relationship. Read the articles and follow the links to learn good ways to combat each one.

The last time I caught her looking her AP was around July-Aug 2020ish.

So, this probably set back the attempt at R, and it is natural to feel resentment towards your WS. Effectively, your R (and it is not a confirmed 'proper' R yet) started in Aug-Sept 2020, which is not too long ago.

How did you catch it, and what was your WS reaction/reason?

I'll never really know if she is or isn't.

Yup, this will linger in your head for a loooong time. Thing is, it needs to be sorted out in IC if you truly want to R.

A suggestion, don't think in terms of R or D yet. Think in terms of getting yourself mentally healthy first. That way, you will be in a better place to decide on R or D.

When you want to bring up the A, what are you feeling - mad, sad, scared? Rather than being snarky, you may get farther in your healing by telling yourself and, perhaps, your W that you are feeling _____.

What's your goal - to express anger or another feeling, to shame your W, to get info, to test her,...? If your goal is to to express a feeling, the above technique works well. If it's to shame your W, you are probably expressing anger, and expressing it in a straight way is likely to help you heal. It may help to let your W know what your goal is, unless you're testing her willingness to come clean.

*****

There's a free PDF on Peggy Vaughan's website called 'Help for Therapists (and their Clients)'. It documents the results of her surveys. One of the results was that couples who talked more about the A(s) probably did better. I recommend looking at the PDF and recommending it to your MC.

*****

The MC's client is your M. R is a good MC result. But you're no more than a year into R, and you're not healed. You don't yet know what's the best result for you.

My reco is to use MC,in part, to find out if you really want to spend the rest of your life with your W.

My reco also is to ask questions of your MC. What's her goal in limiting A talk to sessions? What makes her think that will work?

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:04 PM, Tuesday, August 17th]

So again, in no particular order but ild say that I have been on R for at least a year.
The whole, looking up her AP really did set me back so much that it made me question everything. In fact, this new MC is my last attempt at trying to make this work. In my IC I do work on these things, dealing with anger, self security, ect. I'ld say im doing better over all.
Our MC is a level 3 Gottman something something lol . She is good.
I personally don't feel like waiting to talk in therapy is enough but I can also admit that when we did talk it was a never ending loop. When I feel hurt I guess I want her to feel my pain, which is basically shaming her. When I am angry, I feel like I am digging for more information. I don't trust her at all and can't yet see a time when I will. As many of my other post say, I've found out how sneaky she can be.

Has she written out a timeline for you? I tried R and once my WS wrote out an honest disclosure of what happened and included details I told him I wanted to know, it REALLY curbed my need to talk about it so constantly. I felt compelled to talk about it when his bullshit pieces of stories didn't make sense in my mind. Once it was put together as a full story I could wrap my brain around it helped a lot.

In the beginning - after DDay1 I let those snide remarks fly. Over time I realized all it did was pick a fight and kept me negative and bitter.

Now - I still think them. And at times come up with some good ones (and chuckle to myself). But I don't share them out loud. They really aren't helpful at this point in time.

I won't shy away from bringing something up that's on my mind, but I focus on productivity.

In some of your previous posts you mentioned the poly option. Why not just giving it a shot? With questions like
„Are you attracted to me?/Did you really just settle for the first nice guy?" or
„Have you told me the whole truth about your A?"

It may either help getting rid of your insecurities towards her or give you that final clue to move on. Seems like you are stuck in that mind carousel for quite a long time… Maybe that would help you to take a step forward, regardless of R or D.

You can only ask specific types of questions for a poly

„Are you attracted to me?/Did you really just settle for the first nice guy?" or

I don't think you can poly either of those

„Have you told me the whole truth about your A?"

That would be good but a better way would be to have her write out all full "confession" and then the poly question could be "did you leave any information out of the confession letter" or "is your confession letter accurate" something like that.

I did a poly for my WS and they told me that it has to be factual, not emotional questions. She said that she commonly has people that want to ask "do you love me" and that isn't allowed, for example, because it is about a feeling vs a fact.

I don't trust her at all and can't yet see a time when I will.

Personal opinion, this trumps everything. If you don't see a path to return to trust (not blind trust, but reasonable earned trust) the M is full on zombie mode already.

I'm with Chaos entirely in her approach.

Jaybee - Please don't think for a second that its easier for women to R than men. Not only is this not true, it discounts the experiences of betrayed women and gives some betrayed men an excuse to stay stuck. You don't want that, and I dont want that for you (or anyone!). No matter what your gender, R requires both spouses to do an incredible amount of work and communication, and often (but certainly not always) women arrive at the table with more experience and practice in identifying and speaking about their feelings.

To everyone suggesting that OP's Wgf deserves to be treated poorly, I'd like to remind you that while angry outbursts from the BS are normal, understandable, and to be expected in the devastating aftermath of infidelity, this was a post in the Reconciliation board. Obviously we're all in different places in our R but the goal of R should be a healthy relationship and OP is being proactive in recognizing that his passive aggressive comments are not contributing to a healthy relationship.

We talked about this at our most recent session. Our MC called it "offending from the victim position". Look that up for more info about it.

I too struggle with snide, sarcastic comments. I felt justified. I am hurting, why do I have to be nice about it? What I have learned is that it ends up making me feel bad about myself.

I think it’s great that you are able to identify that you are doing it. That’s the first step to being able to stop it. We are almost a year from the last TT and I am just now able to sometimes catch myself before I let the barbs fly. I try to think: is what I want to say helping or hurting? I am definitely better than i was a year ago.

Our MC also suggested in the beginning that we only talk about it once a week. I laughed and quickly said that would not work for me. I wish I had the self control to only bring it up periodically. I don’t. Although now I am able to put it aside if the timing of the conversation is not ideal. Lately it’s inside my head more than out of my mouth. Not in a rugsweeping way, I am just learning to cope better. Likely the EMDR is helping with that.

I understand what all of you are saying. And again, I do apologize if I minimized any female BS experiences. Wasn't trying to. You ladies do make it look easy though. But pain is pain at the end of the day.

R is not easy for anyone. I feel like im barely holding on. Most days I feel so done with everything, other days I'm feeling good about stuff.

I had wrote out a long o thing but I realized that I was just rambling for ramble sake.

I appreciate all kind and real responses on here

No apologies necessary.

This is hard. You're not that far out. The 'anger stage' is real thing. For me that was about 6-10 months out. Oh man, was I ever mad. It was like my body or brain started to feel marginally safer and wanted to test my spouse to see how bad I could be for him to still want to stick around. When I would feel triggered I would lash out and want him to feel hurt too (because he was the one who made me feel that way). Ultimately though, making him feel bad didn't make me feel any better and I didn't want a relationship where either of us intentionally hurt one another.

The fact that you are here and recognize that this is a problem is a good thing. It means you don't want to get stuck.

Feeling terrible one day and hopeful the next is normal.

[This message edited by emergent8 at 10:39 PM, Thursday, August 19th]