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Newest Member: KMS60087

Just Found Out :
Wife has been having an 11 month affair, advice needed


Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 7:37 PM on Wednesday, October 20th, 2021

Ark, glad the poly was well done.

Your WW has betrayed you deeply. You weren't even sure of paternity at first which I am assuming meant she (deep down) wasn't sure of it either, even if she claimed she was. All through her pregnancy you were betrayed and it sounds like she used her time to meet the posom instead of going to her college classes too, on top of everything else. So the wounds are very, very deep here.

The good news is you have a little space while she is out of the house. Use it wisely and consider extending it. You need space to heal a little so you can think straight. You're torn two ways, you love her but she stabbed you with a blade that cut very deep. Space will help you detach and get some emerging degree of clarity. Not immediately, but gradually. You can get space by the 180 process here (in the library section under articles and the BS FAQ section too) --- absorb it and make it work for your circumstances. It appears like you are already out of infidelity because you have locked down her devices etc. If you can get her to extend her stay outside the house, it will help but you can practice the parts of the 180 that are relevant for you in the same house if you have to as well.

It appears you are not immediately resolved to D. No one would blame you to D after what your WW did. But it takes time to decide what to do, sometimes a long time. Still, continue to speak with your lawyer. Be prepared no matter what you end up deciding so you do not make missteps that hurt later if you do D.

R is tougher than D (although D is tough too). There are no guarantees that trying R will work. And the infidelity WW forced onto you is a really tough one to overcome for anybody. Can it be done? Possibly. But you will have to work through a lot of issues to do it. On top of that, remember what I said in my earlier post about her role. Her role is also hard in R for a number of reasons and it will take huge commitment on her part to do it right with no rugsweeping. Is she capable of that? Unfortunately, there is no sure way of telling just yet. But the bad news is that many, many waywards are not capable. Personally, I think the odds are likely against her being capable, because those are just the odds for everyone.

But they aren't zero. The good news is that she has shown a few early signs that she could end up being capable of R. Saying she will do whatever it takes is actually not something everyone hears, so that's a good sign. It doesn't count for too much but it's positive nonetheless. Giving up control of her phone, accounts etc is also a good sign. But it's the tip of the iceberg. You need more, much more and over a long period of time. Measured in years, not months. In the near term, if you think you would offer her the gift of R if she shows she might be capable to do the work on herself and the marriage, you need to see some movement from her that is action based. Is she reading up on how to heal you? Is she acting on it? Is she really striving to fix herself? Or is she blaming you? As I said in an earlier post, these things take time for waywards to figure out. Don't be afraid to tell her what you need and to mention resources she should be reading etc. It isn't a game where if she can't figure it out on her own, she isn't R material. You can direct her a little bit and see how she reacts. Some people say "I need you to get the How to Help My Spouse Heal book" and their WW does nothing with it. That's a bad sign. Others get the book, devour it and you start seeing changes in her actions. Not perfection, but sincere, earnest effort. So you can give some direction and then see what happens. A remorseful WW will take action on your requests.

You're managing this well so far. Keep taking care of yourself and looking after your kids. But, regarding the kids, remember that a Dad who is in false R, rugsweeping etc, will not be an optimal Dad. Not now, not 5 years from now. Eventually you need to either decide to offer R and then do it the right way or D. Staying in a broken marriage "for the kids" is suboptimal for everyone, imo. Offering R with all the hard work included... because you still love her and you have kids... is a different story. That might be a viable option you will make once you detach and can think through this terrible ordeal.

posts: 440   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8694202

ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 7:41 PM on Wednesday, October 20th, 2021

My wife is still wanting us to go to counseling. Marriage counseling instead of individual.

You would need to interview a potential MC extensively before you agree to getting therapy. The last thing you need is some "unmet needs" blame-shifting so that your WW feels vindicated in her behavior, and believe it or not, that's not uncommon. The litmus test question is... "Do you believe that cheating is about the marriage or about the cheater" If they say "Both", keep searching until you find one who will hold that cheater accountable. You didn't BOTH make the hundreds and possibly thousands of individual choices which go into a year-long betrayal. She did that. And while it's true that couples can (and have) overcome this situation, the first step is that she take 100% responsibility for those choices. You'll know if/when that happens because the blame-shifting will stop.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

{edited for typos.. again}

posts: 4886   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8694203

src9043 ( member #75367) posted at 8:48 PM on Wednesday, October 20th, 2021

My advice is to forego marriage counseling. You both need IC with separate individuals who are well versed on the issue of infidelity. If the marriage can be saved, that is the time to consider marriage counseling. My experience: Ex-wife cheated during the third year of our marriage. I was deeply hurt, but not surprised since I suspected something for six months. A tremendous amount of gaslighting on her part during that time. Subsequent to the affair, my feelings for her disappeared and never returned. I faked it until I caught her again six years later. Just prior to outing her on her first affair, she agreed to go to a therapist because her behavior had become quite bizarre. Within two weeks it came out that she was having an affair. The MC who was initially her therapist helped us rug sweep the whole mess. She said I was also to blame for the affair and that I should be over it by now. That was two weeks after I discovered the affair. I guess the fact that I was married to the ex-wife raised a presumption in the MC's mind that I was also significantly culpable. I was young and stupid. If this forum existed back then, I would have divorced her immediately after her first affair and told the MC to go take a hike. You are lucky in that respect. You have this great resource to keep you focused. Whatever happens, do not allow anyone to facilitate rug sweeping.

Also, think long and hard about whether you want to continue with her. I wouldn't but I've been through this crap and the best way to get over it is to get rid of the excess baggage, your WW.

One last disturbing point. Her affair was particularly heinous. She was having sex with the POSOM when she became pregnant. She kept screwing this asshole throughout the entire pregnancy. She, evidently, didn't give a shit who would be the biological father of the child. If she did, she would have aborted it. Is that someone you want to stay with?

[This message edited by src9043 at 8:57 PM, Wednesday, October 20th]

posts: 500   ·   registered: Sep. 7th, 2020
id 8694211

WontBeFooledAgai ( member #72671) posted at 9:10 PM on Wednesday, October 20th, 2021

MC would be a HUGE mistake at this point. Even if your counselor is good--huge "if"--agreeing to MC is acquiescing to her narrative that your WW's affair was a failing of the marriage as a whole (and so by extension partially your fault too), when it was instead totally a failing of your WW as an INDIVIDUAL. The affair is 100% on her, and she needs to own this completely.

This bears @src9043 pointed out too, that your WW and OM were meeting up when she was obviously pregnant, is quite a serious detail. You better believe that it's pretty likely that they were together in their affair bubble with the belief that HE was the biological father, and that this was their *ahem* "special secret" to keep from you and everyone else. It's definitely an extra level of betrayal at the very least. Who the hell has sex with a woman pregnant by another man? And what woman would have sex with someone believing she was pregnant by another man.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 10:21 PM, Wednesday, October 20th]

posts: 344   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2020
id 8694216

M1965 ( member #57009) posted at 10:23 PM on Wednesday, October 20th, 2021

My wife is still wanting us to go to counseling. Marriage counseling instead of individual.

That is a way of trying to blame you and/or the marriage for her actions, whereas her going to individual counseling would require her to take sole responsibility for her actions, which she does not want to do. Nothing about you or the marriage forced her to do what she did. She did it because she chose to.

She needs to do a lot of work on herself to become someone even vaguely 'safe' to be considered as a life-partner, and I think that is why she wants to jump straight into marriage counseling. And it is also why marriage counseling would be a huge mistake, because it exempts her from focusing on herself as the cause of the problems, and doing the work necessary to prove beyond doubt that she has changed.

Do not agree to MC, and do not let your wife control the situation. Lay down what you need, and she can then choose whether she accepts that or not.

posts: 1213   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2017   ·   location: South East of England
id 8694235

 Ark04l (original poster new member #79489) posted at 3:27 AM on Thursday, October 21st, 2021

The MC was originally my idea. I was in a place where I just needed to talk to someone outside of our bubble. I wanted to be in a room with her, and another person. For them to hear our story and see their reaction.

The MC was helpful (only one session) but he basically told her; he needs to heal, or nothing works. You need to write him a blank check, anything he needs you need to do it for him period. He was straight to the point, and made sure she knew this was not going to be easy.

However, I don’t think I’ll go back until I sit down with an individual counseling. For her and obviously me.

I’ve been in such a MAD stage. Everything she says to me, now via text or call I basically tie it to their affair. She’s upset I’m cutting her down and using her "as a punching bag." Saying that The way I’m speaking to her is preventing her from helping me.

Anyway, I explained that this is a byproduct of her affair. I was never one to call her names (literally ever) or yell. But now I’m just seeing red.

I feel raped. I feel just used and worthless. Like I never really mattered.

We tried for months to have a baby. And it just feels like it never mattered. Like the baby didn’t matter. Our marriage, our 8 year old. We were also looking at houses, thank God the two offers we out down got outbid.

She’s still out of the house for the time being.

I hate sleeping alone the most. I just want to be hugged and loved on. This is the worst feeling ever.

posts: 48   ·   registered: Oct. 16th, 2021
id 8694276

nekonamida ( member #42956) posted at 5:33 AM on Thursday, October 21st, 2021

Ark, it DOES pass. It's normal to feel lonely, anxious, and sad for those first few days. You have been sleeping next to her for YEARS. It's going to take a little bit to break that habit. But it does get better and then you will have an easier time deciding when and if to bring her back.

You're entitled to your anger this early on. As long as you're not calling her names in front of the kid or threatening her, you're right that it's a consequence of her actions. Treat people poorly and don't be surprised when they have some not-so-nice things to say to you. Feeling violated sexually is unfortunately common too. You didn't consent to sharing her and she exposed you to STDs. And the baby too! You can't get rid of the anger. You can only push through it and if she stops trying to fight it and starts listening and showing you empathy instead, it will go smoother.

posts: 5078   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2014   ·   location: United States
id 8694284

redbaron007 ( member #50144) posted at 7:19 AM on Thursday, October 21st, 2021

I hate sleeping alone the most. I just want to be hugged and loved on. This is the worst feeling ever.

I can assure you that all of us BSs have been in this exact situation. I can only offer you sympathy, and also encourage you to stay away from alcohol and stick to a fitness regimen, which may be as simple as taking a brisk daily walk.

Your story is especially hard to read, I cannot imagine your pain: this should be a happy time with a newborn, and your WW has completely ruined it for everyone. Her being so defensive and blaming it on your past suspicions certainly does not bode well for R - she's failing already.

Me: BS (44)
She: WS (41)
One son (6)
DDay: May 2015 (OBS told me)
Divorced, Zero regrets, sound sleep, son doing great!
A FOG is just a weather phenomenon. An Affair Fog is a clever excuse invented by WS's to explain their continued bad behavior.

posts: 232   ·   registered: Oct. 30th, 2015   ·   location: West Coast
id 8694293

 Ark04l (original poster new member #79489) posted at 2:55 PM on Thursday, October 21st, 2021

I wanted to share something with you all. It’s a text she sent me. Over the past 20ish days I have blown up. Called her names, slammed doors, cried like an absolute baby. I’ve never been like this. I’ve never called her a bad name in the almost 11 years we have been together, EVER!

" This is the last I’m speaking on this, i hope, bc I’m so ready to focus on YOUR healing. That’s what is most important!!!
I need you to stop with the psychological abuse.

It may seem so minuscule to you compared to what I’ve done. I get that. I get you want to hurt me SO badly & since you can’t get away with physical assault, psychological abuse is all you got.

Not for one second will I agree that I deserve to be called the following names that you are trying to force me into agreeing with..

slut, whore, monster, psychopath, cunt, evil, cruella de evil, narcissist, $2 whore, the devil, the worst mother, Ted bundee evil, sociopath.

I take those names serious and very personal esp coming from someone I love. If you looked up the definition to each of those I do not fit the description.

I was alot of other things during that affair & I’ve owned those. But you can’t go around saying I am things I’m not then give me an ultimatum that I either admit it or not talk to you…

I am so so so sorry and remorseful for what I’ve done. I’m a fucking mess over this but
you are actually psychologically abusing me. & I’m bringing it to your attention before it’s too late and divorce is our only option.

I cant help heal you if I’m broken too noey, and our goal is soley on healing you so we can start rebuilding what I freaking destroyed (I pray)"

Then she went on to text about all the things we can still have.. like going to Disney world with the new baby. Buying a new house and watching her run down the halls. Taking our oldest daughter to graduation together… all that. And how "worth it" it will all be if we stay together.

This was my response:

" Since I can’t "get away" with physical assault? Psychological is all I have?!

That’s not the goal. And I’d never want to physically hurt you? What the fuck is wrong with you?!

I told you until you can accept you "deserved" to be called those names. To leave me alone.

Meaning, that you deserved to be told off. You deserved to be yelled at. You deserved for a few short minutes to feel badly as I do now. Not that any amount of words can make you feel like I do. But do you deserve that treatment? Oh yeah.

I never said it would continue. But did you deserve what I’ve called you and what’s happened so far? Absolutely. What you did was so evil, and monsterous It makes me sick.

As far as you telling me "it will be worth it" fantasy’s. They WOULD have been worth it. All of those those could of and should of happened without what YOU did.

All those things are what YOU took away from not only me, but both of our daughters!

Again, until you can own up to EVERYTHING. Put you guard down, and truly own this shit. Then we will never be able to fix what you have done. It will be impossible. Including accepting you deserved to be told off.

I just don’t understand how you could do something so mean, so awful, and it have such a deep wounding after effect and think it will all be ok? I’ll be working on healing truly from this point on forever. BECAUSE OF YOU!"

She thinks that I need to absolutely be thinking of how she feels as well during this process. I don’t think she understands what I’ve said and am doing is a byproduct of my hurt. And she needs to accept that she turned me into this. It’s like a broken record player, I’ve told her this so many times. And it’s going no where.

posts: 48   ·   registered: Oct. 16th, 2021
id 8694329

Tigersrule77 ( member #47339) posted at 2:57 PM on Thursday, October 21st, 2021

I hope you find a good IC who can help you. Maybe ask your MC for a recommendation. Mine was pretty good, and I thought it helped.

You did the right thing asking for the space. Keep standing up for yourself and your needs. Stay focused on yourself and your children.

Don't beat yourself up for being emotional. You are dealing with something very hard. Time will help. The distance will definitely help.

posts: 1581   ·   registered: Mar. 27th, 2015   ·   location: Maryland
id 8694331

Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 4:19 PM on Thursday, October 21st, 2021

Ark, you have a right to be angry. Every BS feels it. Everyone says things when they are this hurt that may not be exactly what they mean but it expresses, or tries to, how much pain they are in.

However, it isn't something you want to keep doing. It won't really help whether you try to R or decide to D. So, in time, you need to wean yourself off from it. Try to express your hurt, anger, pain, destruction without the names. You can't turn it off over night but you can realize that it will not be constructive.

I think you know this already from what you just wrote.

It's unfortunate she is calling it out as psychological abuse. It sounds like her note is trying to be understanding of your pain but also giving you her feelings. Someone is probably encouraging her to do that and they may have said the term she is using. Ideally, she could take it for a bit longer without using the word abuse and just tell you that those words hurt her... but she chose the wrong word for me, she is the abuser here, so the word rings hollow.

But still, the names you are using aren't helpful. They may slip out once in a while but try to limit it. Try to express your pain in other ways if you can. If you can't, perhaps you can focus on detaching for now. Limiting contact with her to just about the kids.

You might tell her things like "you've crushed me, you betrayed me, you've hurt me so deeply I can't even think straight". Expose her to what she's done to you and the family... the impact she's had instead of the labels and names.

Her response was pretty positive, actually. She gets that she needs to help heal you. She owned what she did. And it is ok for her to stand up for herself and point out what isn't working. I wish she would have added that she also needs to examine why she did this and then to fix herself. That attitude is key and it is the one thing she left out. I would tell her that if you want to.

Hang in there. Keep focused on your health now. Time and detachment will help everything.

posts: 440   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8694348

nekonamida ( member #42956) posted at 4:44 PM on Thursday, October 21st, 2021

Given the circumstances and that you're only 20 days into this mess, I agree with you entirely. In fact, most of what you said were about her ACTIONS and not who she is as a person. Yes, you threw some of those in there too. Most of us do mere days into this hell. And you acknowledged that you don't intend to continue it which is all you can do. It is not fair for her to try and spin this around to you having called her some names, pointed out how terrible what she did was, and slammed some doors is reason for the marriage ending when she had a LTA while pregnant. Monstrous, sociopathic, narcissistic, evil, devilish, absolutely not what a good mother does. Yep, can't disagree there.

Keep your distance and stand your ground. Just like you said - she needs to own up to it and show empathy before you can start to move forward.

posts: 5078   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2014   ·   location: United States
id 8694352

HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 5:24 PM on Thursday, October 21st, 2021

Someone needs to inform your wife that adultery is abuse.

Emotional abuse,obviously. But it's sexual abuse as well. Would you have consented to have sex with her, knowing she had been in a hotel room, with another guy, just hours earlier? No. You would never have done that.

She cheated for nearly a year. Got pregnant. And allowed you to believe the baby was yours, when she herself had NO IDEA who the father was. Thankfully, the baby is yours.

What she did was slutty. It was evil. It was abusive as Hell.

But how dare you call her a name that hers her feelings. Poor muffin.

I would see an attorney, and file. Tell her she has until the day it's final to show remorse, and prove she is worth a chance at reconciliation. Or just follow through with it, and drop the baggage.

She isn't remorseful at all. She's sorry she got caught.

Do not share this site with her. Bringing your unremorseful WS to this site is a disaster.

Oh, and tell her her focus should be on fixing her. Not you. Her. She is all kinds of fucked up. She needs IC. She needs to figure out why she did this. has NOTHING to do with you.

posts: 3874   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8694360

clouds777 ( member #72442) posted at 5:57 PM on Thursday, October 21st, 2021

She had all the power while she was cheating. Her text demonstrates that she is working to get that power back. She does not have humility or remorse. She certainly does not empathize with you. at all. Empathy is required for reconciliation.

She feels entitled to be treated as a loving spouse even when she has openly abused and hurt you. She does not wish to accept the blame or recognize her own flaws or bad choices. You should though.. just not her. (sarcasm) She is going to use guilt tripping and manipulation to get you to fall back in line.

Ignore her. Dont give her the attention and validation she wants. Get in IC tomorrow if you can. It will really help especially with the anger.

posts: 150   ·   registered: Jan. 1st, 2020
id 8694366

tushnurse ( member #21101) posted at 6:14 PM on Thursday, October 21st, 2021

Giant RED FLAGS on that last post. She is setting the stage for Domestic abuse. She is preparing her righteous exit from your M.
She focuses soley on you and your actions. Nothing about what she has done, or what is so broken in her she chose to have sex with another man for an entire pregnancy, not knowing if you or the other man were the father.

She is not even close to remorse. She is a hundred walking miles from it.

Now to protect yourself and your rights with your children need to be your highest priorities. So time to go to Best Buy or wherever and pick up a VAR and keep it on you, so she cannot claim DV. Time to STOP with the name calling, if and when you walk away from this, you can do it with your head held high that you did what you could and she did not. No matter how pissed off you are, it does no one any good to name call. What you can do is say your action broke us, and your actions are going to be what allows me to choose to stay or leave. Empower yourself with some ready to go phrases in your head that equal what you really want to say. I did this, and it was super therapeutic.

See an attorney. Set up some IC for yourself to just help you wrap your head around things. It will show a focus on being the best you can be moving forward, and establish that you want to be a good father to your kiddos.
Then to get that anger out put on some headphones, and your favorite jams and go for a walk or a jog. Get the energy out.

You need to make you and your kids the priority now. She needs to own and fix her shit. Let her sit in that. Watch her actions don't listen to her words. It will tell you all you need to know about saving your M.

Him: FWS
Kids: 21 &23
Married for 28 years now, was 16 at the time.
D-Day Sept 26 2008
R'd in about 2 years. Old Vet now.

posts: 19099   ·   registered: Oct. 1st, 2008   ·   location: St. Louis
id 8694371

Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 6:34 PM on Thursday, October 21st, 2021

Actually she does kinda deserve to be called those things, but enough now. You made your point. I didn't call my wife a whore. I did ask her once what the term was for someone who traded sex for favors, gifts and attention. I let the question hang in the air and left it at that.

But anyway, you're getting nowhere saying this stuff.

That said, she acts relentlessly EXACTLY like a narcissist, according to what you've reported and continue to report. And someone who would carry on a year-long affair like she did is absolutely behaving in a transgressive sociopathic manner. No question.

I would tread very carefully here, since she seems like a very manipulative narcissist who wants a pretext for alleging some kind of "abuse" in divorce court.

Her text memo to you is a case study in one of the worst manipulation tools narcissists use, called DARVO (deny, attack and reverse victim-offender). This line in particular is classic DARVO:

I get you want to hurt me SO badly & since you can’t get away with physical assault, psychological abuse is all you got.

You should get a VAR (voice activated recorder) and carry it around in your pocket AT ALL TIMES. We just saw recently an engaged man betrayed. His fiance tried to have him jailed on false DV charges. He was missing for a week or so until he could get back online and tell us what happened.

It happens all the time. Be safe. Your wife is EXACTLY the sort of creature who will do this.

Stop engaging with her on texts. Stop it. Go grey rock on her. Look it up. Only communicate minimally related to business and children.

Please, for the love of Mike, if you haven't, go see a divorce attorney and consider filing pre-emptively. That doesn't mean you WILL divorce. But she is trying establish a position of power over you. Divorce is not a game, but this woman is NOT reconciliation material. You can do better in your life, starting right now.

[This message edited by Thumos at 6:38 PM, Thursday, October 21st]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4527   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8694374

longsadstory1952 ( member #29048) posted at 6:55 PM on Thursday, October 21st, 2021

She is building a case. She has been talking to someone and the text is a joint effort to make a record that will be used against you at the right time.

And yet you are dangling R. You should not be telling her what she needs to do. That is bargaining. YOu should not be bargaining.

So nice to hear that she "loves" you. I will say it again, you do not know this woman at all.

posts: 1096   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2010
id 8694380

HouseOfPlane ( member #45739) posted at 6:57 PM on Thursday, October 21st, 2021

But still, the names you are using aren't helpful. They may slip out once in a while but try to limit it.

Totally understand where they are coming from, believe me. But just use her name. Not "whore" and not "dear".

The flip side is to ask her to hear "I am in pain" when you let slip the inevitable "skank".

Frankly, referring to her formally can be more cutting. The other two listed above imply you care.

And refer to the OM however you want. Your lack of respect will leak over.

DDay 1986: R'd, it was hard, hard work.

“Tell me, what is it you plan to do
with your one wild and precious life?”
― Mary Oliver

posts: 2800   ·   registered: Nov. 25th, 2014
id 8694383

HalfTime2017 ( member #64366) posted at 7:20 PM on Thursday, October 21st, 2021

Ark, if you text her those things it can, and will be used against you during a divorce. It will have an affect on your custody if she shares it with the judge I WOULD NOT CONTINUE down that line of discussion with your WW via text. If you verbally call her names, that's not something she can share, but she is turning that around and putting it in text and you basically admitted to verbally abusing her. Verbal abuse, can be considered a DV in our modern court system. SO YOU NEED TO STOP that now. As much as she deserves to be called those names, it will only hurt you if you end up in D. And the way that she wrote out "if you end up in a Divorce", tells me that she is definitely not thinking about doing whatever it takes to R.

Do not be lulled into the victim mentally and feel you can call, say and do whatever you want. She may deserve to be called those names, but it won't help you in the long run. R is tough, so take some time away from her to think. She wants you at the minimum to rugsweep this. The fact that she is trying to throw the name calling back in your face,just shows that she's not R ready. She is all about her right now, even though she tries to say its about your healing, she is still focused on her. She's not there, and may never get there. I'd pull the plug on her. Maybe she changes down the road, but don't give her any material now and for use during the D.

posts: 1230   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2018   ·   location: Cali
id 8694388

M1965 ( member #57009) posted at 7:42 PM on Thursday, October 21st, 2021


You have every right to feel anger, even rage, after the way you, your love, and your trust have been abused.

What I think is adding frustration to that anger is your wife’s total refusal to acknowledge that anything she did was bad or wrong; or that what she is seeing and hearing now are the direct results of the pain and trauma that she inflicted on you; and that coupled with these refusals, she is also insulting your intelligence with crude attempts at psychological manipulation.

I totally understand why that text gives you problems, and here is why:

This is the last I’m speaking on this, i hope

Translation: I refuse you your right to your pain, and it had better stop now.

bc I’m so ready to focus on YOUR healing. That’s what is most important!!!

Translation: My priority is to divert focus away from myself and my actions, and the huge amount of issues I have I have not even begun to address, and put it entirely on you, thereby making you the problem to be solved.

I need you to stop with the psychological abuse.

Translation: I am not prepared to deal with the perfectly justified pain, anger, and emotional damage I caused you, which are the natural consequences of my actions, and so I will turn you into the abuser in this situation and play the victim.

Note: victim blaming is the oldest trick in the scoundrel’s handbook

It may seem so minuscule to you compared to what I’ve done. I get that.

Translation: What you do is only miniscule in your perception – notice the extremely significant IT MAY SEEM and TO YOU that she slipped in, turning it into a matter of opinion rather than fact, and to suggest that she does not share that opinion – but I am a psychology student, so I understand the dysfunction in your thought processes that has led you to that erroneous conclusion.

I get you want to hurt me SO badly

Translation: Being an astute and knowledgeable student of psychology – total failure of recent studies notwithstanding – I am choosing to interpret the verbal manifestation of the pain and damage I caused you as deliberate, vindictive malice on your part, which allows me to (1) not address the pain I created that drives your words, and (2) play the victim of your totally unreasonable and undeserved verbal assaults.

I get you want to hurt me SO badly & since you can’t get away with physical assault, psychological abuse is all you got.

Translation: My highly selective and self-serving psychological insight, which does not acknowledge or recognize your pain, leads me to undermine and denigrate your emotions by suggesting your only motivation is to inflict hurt, because that is who you are, and that it is only the fear of legal consequences has prevented you from physically beating me, because I know you are the kind of guy who would like to beat women.

Not for one second will I agree that I deserve to be called the following names that you are trying to force me into agreeing with..

slut, whore, monster, psychopath, cunt, evil, cruella de evil, narcissist, $2 whore, the devil, the worst mother, Ted bundee evil, sociopath.

Translation: Despite the force I am being subjected to by you, the perpetrator, I do not acknowledge that anything I have done merits harsh criticism, nor will I accept any from you. Nor will I use basic common sense – let alone psychological insight – to accept that you have the right to be angry, to vent, and that such raw, powerful anger is likely to manifest itself in raw, powerful language, much the same way as we might use choice language in reaction to dropping a brick on our foot. You may be upset as a result of your troubled and confused thought processes, but do not take your problems out on me. As if I could ever be accused of doing a bad thing.

I take those names serious and very personal esp coming from someone I love. If you looked up the definition to each of those I do not fit the description.

Translation: While I am prepared to treat my husband and children with the utmost disrespect and betrayal for prolonged periods of time, I will not tolerate any of the same treatment being meted out to me. I dish out abuse, I do not take it. I have searched the dictionary, and I cannot find a word that is entirely appropriate for a person who has done what I did. And never forget that whatever I did was done because I love you.

I was alot of other things during that affair & I’ve owned those. But you can’t go around saying I am things I’m not then give me an ultimatum that I either admit it or not talk to you…

Translation: I will admit to only what I choose to admit to, and I do not need or want your input because it contradicts my image of myself. Your opinions about me do not matter, and I will not consider whether any of them have any basis in the reality of my actions. You have no right to judge me, no matter what I have done.

I am so so so sorry and remorseful for what I’ve done.

Translation: I want you to believe that I am sorry for my actions, rather than because I got caught, and I hope you can understand that it is my remorse that causes me to undermine, denigrate, and deny you every emotion that you are feeling.

I’m a fucking mess over this

Translation: My life is a F*cking mess as a result of my actions. Please feel sorry for me. I do.

…but you are actually psychologically abusing me. & I’m bringing it to your attention before it’s too late and divorce is our only option.

Translation: I am the one suffering here, being deliberately victimised by you. I am making a very thinly veiled threat that if you keep trying to hold me accountable for my actions it will result in divorce, so be warned!

I cant help heal you if I’m broken too

Translation: I do not accept that I was already very badly broken to be able to have an affair throughout my pregnancy, but I will blame you for attempting to break me now by holding me accountable for my actions. I further suggest that by doing so, you are actively damaging the marriage and your own recovery.

…and our goal is solely on healing you so we can start rebuilding what I freaking destroyed (I pray)

Translation: Let me reiterate that the only person with problems in the marriage is you, not me, and that you are the person who needs to be fixed, not me, nor any of the faults within me that enabled me to ‘freaking destroy’ the marriage and family. So will you please just shut up, let me off the hook, and start getting better?


Then she went on to text about all the things we can still have.. like going to Disney world with the new baby. Buying a new house and watching her run down the halls. Taking our oldest daughter to graduation together… all that. And how "worth it" it will all be if we stay together.

Pathetically crude psychological manipulation, which you rightly understand as her attempt to put the blame entirely on you if you do not accept what she did to you, thereby preventing her rose-tinted visions of playing happy family from happening.

It is a tragic shame that the same visions did not prevent her from having her affair, isn’t it? I guess she had other things on mind, not your happiness, nor your children’s futures. That is okay though, because she wants to put that responsibility on your shoulders now. Basically, what she is saying is, "Eat the shit sandwich I have presented you with, or you are being cruel to our children".

She’s one Hell of a gal (with an emphasis on Hell).

Your response was perfect, and it is a relief that you are not buying into the warped inversion of reality that she is trying to peddle.

I also believe, as others here do, that she is being coached, because her message reads more like a press-release than that comes from the heart of a genuinely remorseful person who has accepted responsibility for what they did. There is also the possibility, as others have said, that she is actively trying to provoke you into angry responses that would suit her to use in evidence against you. I urge you to stop responding to anything more like this from her, no matter how much you want to. She is very, very devious, and not overburdened by conscience or scruples, and she may well be trying to trap you using your own words.

For example, if you respond by email to a list of names she says you have called her by saying, "You deserved to be called every one of those", she has got herself a written confession from you to what her lawyer would say is verbal abuse. Be very, very careful on this score, and do not put anything more in writing like that. Provoking you may be a defense tactic, so do not rise to the bait. Notice how she minimizes what she did, and maximizes what you do? It's an ideal way to provoke you.

So in future, if you receive anything like this from her again - suspicious that it came out of the blue, isn't it? - why not use this response, and say nothing more: "I know exactly what you are doing, and I am not playing your game. In future, please limit these messages to the safety and well-being of our children, which is my number one priority". She will not like that, but if she emails/messages again, repeat those words and nothing more. If she emails/messages again, do not reply at all. Let her know that she is not half as clever as she thinks she is, and do not step into any more traps that she has laid.

Given your wife’s supposed interest in the subject of psychology, she ought to submit to testing to see if she is a sociopath or a psychopath, because her ability to conduct her eleven month affair and come home acting like nothing was going on, as well as to cheat throughout a pregnancy, suggest that she has a very flexible or non-existent relationship with her conscience.

This is the full list of questions from an online sociopath test. See how many traits you recognize in your wife (even if she would deny them all):

Do you repeatedly lie to or trick others for your own gain or pleasure?

Do you act impulsively?

Do you fail to plan ahead?

Do you consistently fail to fulfill work obligations?

Do you consistently fail to fulfill financial obligations?

Have you ever engaged in criminal behavior?

Do you find yourself unable to empathize with others dealing with difficult situations?

If you hurt someone else’s feelings, do you lack remorse or guilt?

Are you aggressive?

Do you engage in unnecessary risk-taking or dangerous behavior with no regard for the safety of self or others?

Do you consider yourself superior to others?

Do you use charm or wit to manipulate others for your own benefit?

I can see eight of those categories that she would score highly in. And I bet you that if you ask her to do some real tests, with a qualified psychologist, she will refuse.

[This message edited by M1965 at 8:03 PM, Thursday, October 21st]

posts: 1213   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2017   ·   location: South East of England
id 8694389
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