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Just Found Out :
So Lost

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Happenedtome2 ( member #68906) posted at 1:48 PM on Thursday, November 18th, 2021

Owl,
I'm really sorry to see you here, and had a pit in my stomach when you said "ok" to her going to AP's house......but wow, did you ever wake up.


As others have said, you'd better be REALLY prepared for D if you're going to drop the idea on her. There is a strong possibility that it will be a wakeup call for her. In this case I'm not 100% sure because she was literally telling you she was going to his place and didn't seem to care if you knew. If she still has any contact or is going to his place, just know that it isn't as a friend and she isn't going there to help him paint the place. She's going there for sex. Nothing else.

See an attorney and know your rights. Get your financials in order in case you have to see D through to the end or if you decide to separate. You don't want to be financing her jaunts with AP.

Take anything she says with a grain of salt. She may be telling you "the truth" but she is likely omitting details or giving you just enough to think you know everything. You don't. Period.


Keep posting, and take care of yourself. Most of all, TRUST YOURSELF. If you think something's not right, then it probably isn't.

BH DDay August 2018 :https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=633451

posts: 506   ·   registered: Nov. 23rd, 2018
id 8699040
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 MeltingOwl (original poster new member #79594) posted at 12:40 AM on Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021

I guess it would be a good time for an update. What a mess

After the first conditions list, I immediately downloaded her phone data, but it didn't recover the deleted texts. It was still a useful resource for figuring out timeline of the affair as she was not much for covering her tracks. Did some keyword searches, followed things back, and... although the stuff with the OM had a start point, before that it was just a long series of small indiscretions as far back as the texts went. Some things I was aware of, others not.

It all just suddenly clicked into place. A decade of small arguments, kisses and flirting at parties. No real emotional cheating, just like getting carried away in the mood sort of things. It caused friction in our relationship, because she never asked, checked in with me. I didn't really get jealous, just hurt and insecure about our own relationship and we moved on.

We talked about it, and I pushed her to be more honest. She finally confessed she had sex with OM, and everything I could think of. She also volunteered info, more than I asked. Talked about her brother, who got into one disastrous relationship after another until he became poly. Talked about what that would mean for us, if we choose to work on our marriage. It doesn't really matter at this point, as the more I considered it, the more I realized it doesn't change anything about the infidelity.

I wasn't happy that the conditions I provided her were so emotionally charged. I revised them, included my emotional boundaries and let her know I was done convincing her to do any of them. If she's in and committed, show me by completing the list and honoring the conditions. One thing (at least at face value) she's now fully onboard with is that the affair needs to end before she can make any sane decisions about our marriage. I believe she's writing the letter of no contact tonight.

I consulted a divorce attorney on friday and talked about the process. It will likely just be a joint/desk divorce unless she does something stupid in the future. I have my appt set for my IC, and spent the weekend with my parents which was really healing. Have my STD Screen completed and waiting on results. She still wanted to see the MC, and we did today. You guys were right, seems like a waste of time. It feels pointless to discuss the future of a relationship and it's current failures when you're not even convinced the affair is over.

I am preparing to move on. It's hard. I want to take her with me. I still find myself trying to convince her when we talk. I've had a decade of practice and it's a hard habit to break. Doing 180 stuff has been really good for me. Getting appointments sorted out for my health that I have been postponing for years, exercising and thinking about my future. I ordered two of the books suggested, should arrive on wednesday.

posts: 8   ·   registered: Nov. 16th, 2021
id 8699720
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nekonamida ( member #42956) posted at 1:56 AM on Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021

If she sends a NC letter, make sure you see it. So something through email/text would be best. Unfortunately we have seen WSes say they sent a NC letter and not actually do it in the past. If she's still caught up in the A, she may back out of it at the last minute.

I think you're doing well in putting yourself first and moving on. If she pulls out a miracle and turns this around for R, great but you don't need to wait around to find out while she continues to walk down the wrong path. Absolutely do not, from this point forward, change your conditions of R again. She needs to either do them all as you've asked or she's going to fight you through R to get away with the bare minimum you will allow. She needs to either be 110% committed or to get out.

posts: 5078   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2014   ·   location: United States
id 8699723
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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 2:18 AM on Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021

I wasn't happy that the conditions I provided her were so emotionally charged. I revised them, included my emotional boundaries and let her know I was done convincing her to do any of them. If she's in and committed, show me by completing the list and honoring the conditions.

I just wanted to mention to you Owl that no matter what you've said regarding R, you are allowed to change your mind. It sounds to me like you offered terms before you had all the info, and then updated your terms without giving yourself TIME to absorb the new information. In fact, I believe if I were you I'd walk it back to "I'm not making any promises", but even if you don't have that discussion... you can STILL change your mind later if you want to.

It's weird, but most of us don't react to infidelity the way we thought we would. It's so shocking and the threat of loss feels so big and so immediate. That knee jerk reaction to return to the status quo can have us playing a game of "Let's Make a Deal" like we're Monty Hall or something. And believe me, you don't want to "win" the serial-cheater-narcissist-riding-a-burro behind Door #3, right? It's best to TAKE YOUR TIME. There's no way to know how you're going to feel about everything that's happened six months down the road. And it takes a good long while to ascertain whether the WS is actually willing to do the very hard work of repairing her broken character this early on. In many ways, the WS must EARN their way back into the marriage. She's still throwing you stories about polyamory. You can file that under "not getting it yet". shocked

We're all here because we KNOW what you're going through. And we all made it. Some in R, some in D. You will too. Whether it's together or separate though remains to be seen. It's okay to take your time deciding what you want. And if you've made promises too early, it's okay to walk them back. Remember, no one is prepared beforehand on how they're going to handle a cheating spouse. It's going to feel messy and counterintuitive at times. You're doing okay though. You really are.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 2:23 AM, Tuesday, November 23rd]

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

{edited for typos.. again}

posts: 4886   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8699727
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 MeltingOwl (original poster new member #79594) posted at 4:32 PM on Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021

She's writing a physical letter that I will read and drive her to his place to deliver it (to his door, not him directly).

I am content with my conditions, especially that I added my relationship boundaries. Sorting them out to be firm enough to write down clarified a lot for me in terms of what I expect and will tolerate in my future relationships.

I am struggling somewhat with how long this process will be, either towards R or D. It's emotionally difficult to interact with my WS and hold my position while she is still so uncertain about everything.

posts: 8   ·   registered: Nov. 16th, 2021
id 8699807
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asc1226 ( member #75363) posted at 4:38 PM on Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021

She's writing a physical letter that I will read and drive her to his place to deliver it (to his door, not him directly).

Is there no postal service in your area? How long is the letter? No contact can be established firmly with 2 or 3 lines.

I make edits, words is hard

posts: 402   ·   registered: Sep. 7th, 2020
id 8699809
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BeyondRage ( member #71328) posted at 5:18 PM on Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021

Talked about her brother, who got into one disastrous relationship after another until he became poly. Talked about what that would mean for us, if we choose to work on our marriage.

Owl.

So you have confrontation with her and after she admits to what she has been up to this is her first thought??? So she takes a trial run at you to let her keep her boyfriend while you work on your marriage. If that is the case you are in more of a mess than you can imagine.

So she writes this letter, UNDER DURESS, and what effect is that actually going to have???? And then youre supposed to just believe they will stay no contact??? So far she is not volunteering anything on her own.

You have time for R or D but you do not have time to fifure out how you are going to verify what she is telling you and agreeing to only after the divorce statement is staring her in the face.

If there was ever a candidate for a polygraph situation yours is it. She has shown no signs of doing anything but saving her ass for the time being. And again, her first statement was to imply polyamory was in her head. What does her brother have to do with anything if that is not what she was thinking.

Me- 49M
WW- 48F
Kids- 23,21,20,18 all female
https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=640592

posts: 492   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2019   ·   location: Southeast USA
id 8699815
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Happenedtome2 ( member #68906) posted at 2:30 PM on Wednesday, November 24th, 2021

She brought up her brother's poly lifestyle as a prelude to repairing your marriage? Owl, this has nowhere to go but down. You caught her having an A and instead of starting with "I was wrong , what can I do to repair this and help you heal" she brings up cake eating.

There are some here who believe that poly/open marriages work. I am not one of them. I am of the belief that once someone else enters the marriage, it is over as a marriage and it basically becomes roomies who share bills, sometimes raise kids and sometimes have sex while one of them goes out and sleeps around. She tried to lay the groundwork for that.

Make sure you continue to follow up with your IC and get your head in the right place. You deserve better than that.

BH DDay August 2018 :https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=633451

posts: 506   ·   registered: Nov. 23rd, 2018
id 8699955
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scaredwoman ( member #78680) posted at 4:08 PM on Wednesday, November 24th, 2021

It's emotionally difficult to interact with my WS and hold my position while she is still so uncertain about everything.

What do you mean with "she is still so uncertain about everything"? She doesn't get to decide how to proceed with your marriage, YOU do. If she's not sure she wants to end the affair then she needs to be out of the house, like pronto. This leads to the pick-me dance which you know you will not tolerate. If she's uncertain about whether or not to save the marriage, don't waste your time trying to convince her.

posts: 202   ·   registered: Apr. 20th, 2021
id 8699969
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RangerS ( new member #79516) posted at 2:03 AM on Sunday, December 5th, 2021

How are you doing Owl?

posts: 10   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2021
id 8702669
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Tallgirl ( member #64088) posted at 12:44 AM on Wednesday, December 15th, 2021

Just read this string, tons of good advice here. Owl. I am so sorry you are here. Infidelity is like a rollercoaster in hell. From what I can see you are doing the right stuff, which makes it hard in the shorter term, but it is better for you in the longer term. Protect you heart.

Legally separated, one more step.

posts: 1784   ·   registered: Jun. 11th, 2018
id 8704174
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 MeltingOwl (original poster new member #79594) posted at 1:18 AM on Thursday, December 16th, 2021

Hi everyone,

It's been a few weeks since my last update, and i've been requested to provide another (thank you). I found it difficult to post in the last little while because despite everything I really wanted to reconcile with my wife. I feel like I hadn't really accepted and emotionally processed the loss of my relationship and my previous life with her. I still don't know if I have done so. For the past decade, our relationship dynamic has been that I have been responsible for resolving relationship issues and conflict between us. To pursue her and fix the problem while she avoids the conflict.

I've read a through most of not just friends, and started the Marriage counselor recommended book Non-violent communication: A language of life. The MC visits have been alright, but haven't been too productive so far. Just sort of acknowledged where we're at and recommended some "improve your communication" type stuff.

In the last three weeks i've been doing a lot of introspection about the way I communicate to my WS, and how I communicate my feelings in general. I've been verbalizing a lot more of my feelings and needs, without comment or judgments on her. My appt. with the individual counselor was just yesterday, and talking with her was really helpful in talking through these introspections. Big takeaways were I shelve my own emotions and needs in order to keep her happy and resolve relationship problems- that i've essentially given her permission to dismiss my feelings and prioritize her own.

Another was some smaller material things I was struggling with- I'd lent the AP and WS my music festival outfits to try out since he was going to a rave in october, and he picked out an outfit with clothing that was sentimental to me. The other was that they both went on a secret date to the city and she recommended him to go to my barber to get his haircut. I felt like I wasn't facing my fears if I didn't go to the barber or wore the clothes again; but my IC told me I was just causing myself additional pain with these unnecessary reminders, and could just get rid of the clothes and see a new barber.

My WS has been fence sitting on reconciliation until last weekend, where we had a vacation and quality one on one time together, and I think my feelings reached her. Her language regarding the AP has changed to one of grief/mourning, which is progress i suppose, in that she's actually onboard with reconciling with me. Well, at least on the surface level. She's mentioned a few rationalized excuses for seeing him or giving him gifts, but she's volunteered the information and we talked through her reasoning there. So, she sees him differently, and talks about the affair as a "toxic fantasy romance".

While she sees the affair differently, I don't think she sees how our relationship has or will change yet. Things have really crystallized for me about what I need and am willing to accept from her as an equal partner in our marriage. I don't know if she's willing or able to accept that change, but I think that answer will become clear as time passes. I've gotten a lot more comfortable in the last month with the thought of a life that's "just me" which has given me mental freedom from being attached to my WS out of fear.

I guess that's it for now, in the next month I plan to continue pursuing an independent life, reading the recommended literature and seeing both counselors.

posts: 8   ·   registered: Nov. 16th, 2021
id 8704404
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Wanttobebetter ( member #72484) posted at 3:00 AM on Thursday, December 16th, 2021

OP - in a nutshell, you are basically in limbo, no? I read that she is still fence sitting and not commit to the marriage. Is your plan to just wait it out? Wait for her to make up her mind to be with you or not? I hope you find clarity soon as to what your next steps should be.

Good luck.

posts: 177   ·   registered: Jan. 6th, 2020
id 8704426
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fareast ( Guide #61555) posted at 4:18 AM on Thursday, December 16th, 2021

You’re on the right path. Get stronger for you. Heal you. Figure out what you want and stick to your boundaries. An equal partner is a great start. Watch her actions not her words and always value yourself. You are on a good path to do just that.

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

posts: 2948   ·   registered: Nov. 24th, 2017
id 8704433
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 MeltingOwl (original poster new member #79594) posted at 4:21 AM on Thursday, December 16th, 2021

wanttobebetter, I feel like I would be in limbo if I were still waiting on whatever decision my WS made regarding our marriage, before I could make any of my own. after Dday last month, it had been probably 6 years since I had last contemplated a life without my WS. It was scary, I was still desperately searching for something solid from my past relationship to cling onto. I've had a month to contemplate living without her, and it's gotten steadily easier to emotionally accept and plan for. I no longer dread the thought of relocation and finding a new job.

Right now i'm open to reconciliation with my WS, but the shape of our new relationship will look very different, so I don't know if it's something she's willing to accept. And if she does so begrudgingly, I don't know if that's something i'm willing to accept. But I'm willing to give it a try, to be open about my feelings and my needs and see if our relationship is worth saving.

[This message edited by MeltingOwl at 4:22 AM, Thursday, December 16th]

posts: 8   ·   registered: Nov. 16th, 2021
id 8704434
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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 5:06 AM on Thursday, December 16th, 2021

Never apologize for wanting R, Owl. Just make sure you have it on YOUR terms so that it's something you can really live with. You're doing okay. It's still early. Some WS's are slower than others to take meaningful responsibility for what they've done.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

{edited for typos.. again}

posts: 4886   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8704439
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BeyondRage ( member #71328) posted at 2:07 AM on Friday, December 17th, 2021

Owl,

Your time table is your timetable.. But your conditions are really not OK.

You do not reconcile and still have your WW giving presents and going to visit her duck buddy. And anyone that tells you that the odds of the affair not getting physical under those circumstances is truly delusional.

This letter that she is delivering means nothing. She is doing it totally under duress and at the same time is still buying him presents and being alone with him physically. Do you really call that acceptable???

I hope you under whatever time you need can get more realistic on what you are willing to accept.

A relationship where a wayward spouse still has alone time and does what yours is doing is called an open relationship. I don’t think that is what you are wanting to sign up for permanently.

[This message edited by BeyondRage at 3:07 AM, Friday, December 17th]

Me- 49M
WW- 48F
Kids- 23,21,20,18 all female
https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=640592

posts: 492   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2019   ·   location: Southeast USA
id 8704600
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Justsomeguy ( member #65583) posted at 5:17 AM on Friday, December 17th, 2021

I don't know if this will help or not, but I thought I'd share my experience with s wacky WW.

After Dday #1, I got the classic ILYBINILWY speech, so I put on my best 🕺 shoes and danced the pick me. Ihad no idea at the time that she was in a full blown affair. I went from a pretty good husband to an amazing one, with date nights, tea in bed each morning, yadda, yadda, yadda...barf.

Dday#2 was different. After she was forced to confess the sordid details of her depravity I blew u her world and outed her to her family. Then I kicked her ass to the guest room. After a while I relented and offered R, but on my conditions. I gave her 6 months to pull her head out of her ass and move earth and heaven for me. During that time I began to buy nice clothes, lots of them. Every day was a sale, with everything 50% offline she was subsidizing my wardrobe. And why not? I had far fewer clothes and jewelry than her, as I always did without for the sake of the family. You know, manning up and all that bullshit we are fed. I didn't want to be single and poorly dressed as I reentered the dating world. She at least owed me that.

As I detached in anefgort to protect myself, I noticed a curious byproduct. She became more attracted to me the less of a shit I gave about her. When I drove angry and I was a guy 24/7, she said in
T was hot. I was speechless. Could she be so simple and stupid? And yes, she could.

But here is the kicker. There was one time she started snotty crying when she realized that she would no longer get be the love of my life. Yes, that is how disconnected from reality she was. She actually thought she could suck parking lot dick and still remain my little angel. I told her that she would never occupy that position again. Another time we were in the car listening to shittycountry song about love and once again the snotty tears came and she was heartbroken that I would never sing a song like that for her. She must have forgotten that I don't sing, for anyone,but most of call, I thought, this woman is totally fucking disconnected from reality. Yes, she was, as most waywards are.

The best piece of advice I can give you is to forget doing anything for her. Do everything for you. If she finds this attractive andplls her head out of her ass,good. If you canstomach a relationship with her,better. But, if you have done the work on you to the point you realize that she does not complement your life and you walk, then you know the path forward.

Just my 2 cents...

Me:53STBXWW:51DD#1: false confession of EA Dec. 2016. False R for a year.DD#2: confessed to year long PA Dec. 2 2017 (was about to be outed)Called it off.Denied having an affair in court papers.

posts: 1181   ·   registered: Jul. 25th, 2018   ·   location: Canada
id 8704618
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