SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I just wanted to pop in and remind those who are defending this wayward husband(Not FORMER wayward), that checking the other woman's social media is a form of breaking NC.

Again..red flags around. Huge, waving red flags.

You have a newborn child! That child needs your attention, energy, and affection! And of course, sex wise, you’re going to be out of commission for a bit.

Your husband is a grown-ass adult. He should know by now that it is not your responsibility to make sure that he is happy and fulfilled 100% of the time. If his love and fidelity contingent on your entire universe surrounding him from dawn until dusk, then nothing you do will ever be enough to satisfy him… unless you’re willing to sacrifice everything, including the well-being of your children, who actually are helpless and dependent on their parents to survive.

He doesn’t love you and gives you the dead-eyed stare? Good! He is making your decision very easy and unambiguous. He won’t tell you what you’ve done to deserve this? Then it’s not your problem.

The situation has become ridiculous. He is testing ME if I initiate touch. If my kisses aren't long enough, if I don't compliment him on his muscles (he yoyos on weight like crazy, I don't even mention anything anymore), he said being in the basement he had lots of Time to think. Oh boy. A philosopher said that people "think" by having conversations in their mind. And most of them are defensive conversations. He is definitely in Wayward mode.
Not R at all. Thats why all my bells are ringing. Who thought that after 3 years they can regress completely.

Im trying to think about what dude67 said about the A not being part of the picture.BUT being in the specific head space he is in NOW he chose to cheat me and put his young daughters at risk of the absolute trauma and shame had they discovered what their father did. (I was elegant enough to keep it private)

We had lunch with our group of friends today that included that lady friend. Im watching their interaction very closely. They for sure fancy each other. She is complimenting him and vv, theyre bonding over the same stupid IVY school they went to. (Who gives a fuck, its been 20 years) He definitely is admiring her. After he told me that he wants me to admire him and that he wants to admire me this morning.
This all seems like a bad cheesy joke. Wtf is happening.

Wtf is happening.

Quite plainly, he is having another affair.

I think you need to come to terms with that. Stop buying his bullshit,that you are to blame for the way he is choosing to treat you. He is cheating on you. Again.

It may be emotional,at this point. It also might be physical.

Put a var in the car, and one in the basement. You will have your proof in a day,or two.

He certainly might be having another A. Your gut is usually right, as well as as the other BW’s who are commenting.

My gut concerning his behavior obviously is inferior and less predictive than yours, given your collective experiences.

That being said, and I say this with a grain of salt, as well as some hope. My gut says that he wants your attention, and thus is trying to make you jealous and pique your interest in him by creating a false interest in this woman.

Dude..IF that is what he is doing..considering the horrific pain he put her through by already having one affair, just a few short years ago..then the GAME he is playing with his wife's emotions is cruel,and abusive.

If that is what he is doing..mindfucking his PPD wife..would make him a monster. So I hope you are wrong. I hope I am wrong. But all signs indicate he is deep in another affair.

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:56 PM, Saturday, February 26th]

One of the other reasons it might not be an A is that it’s too out in the open. If he’s having an A he’s doing a terrible job of hiding it. Seems to obvious to me.

Dude..IF that is what he is doing..considering the horrific pain he put her through by already having one affair, just a few short years ago..then the GAME he is playing with his wife's emotions is cruel,and abusive.

I agree with Hellfire here. A WS who would deliberately flirt to make their BS jealous can't possibly have absorbed the level of damage they've inflicted.

I can’t wrap my head around your WH’s selfishness. Whatever IVY school he went to he failed basic humanity. I am far from a perfect spouse, but even I knew when we had a newborn and a two year old, it was a critical time to raise my game and be as supportive as possible. It’s a fantastic time for a young family, with lots of stress, sacrifice, upheaval and disruption to your normal life, but it’s a short period. The others are right, the red flags abound. Instead of building a stronger relationship with his wife by putting his own needs aside to support his young family, he is consumed with getting his dick wet and not getting enough attention! Really? Suck it up buttercup, your family needs you. How egotistical and self absorbed. Good luck to you dealing with him.

[This message edited by fareast at 4:51 PM, February 26th (Saturday)]

Dude67, for some reason, I think that if a woman used the fact that her husband was working 2 jobs to support the family and didn’t have enough time to give her foot rubs or take her out to dinner as often as she liked as an excuse to cheat sleep with other men act out like a petulant child, you would be outraged on behalf of that husband and use very colorful words to describe what you thought of her.

A few pages back, Hellfire mentioned how "Love Languages" typically come up in the context of manipulation. A former friend of mine whose husband is a cheater said that his Love Language was touch/intimacy, which he always brought up in the context of trying to guilt her into sex acts that made her extremely uncomfortable. I told her that the next time he pulled that love language crap, she should say:

"I want a diamond necklace, a new car, and for you to hand-feed me grapes every night. Oh you think that’s unreasonable? Too bad, my love languages are gift giving and acts of service. You must not love me!”

Tough Love, you need to put your user name into action. If he is going to act like a sullen and petulant child, don’t be afraid to give him precisely the level of respect and consideration that behavior deserves, which is NONE.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 12:26 AM, Sunday, February 27th]

He did put in a lot of work.

Im trying to see his side for a minute, yes, Im not great with expressions of love or intimacy with him doesn't cause my heart to leap out of excitement.. And I guess if he didn't express his love to me I wouldn't be cool with it either.

He basically is saying he is unhappy in our marriage because he feels there's an emotional gap that's leading to the physical effection gap. Its true, there is a gap. I guess I've been ok with it because there are other aspects that work for me.

I do see his side, how sex is something very much on his mind all day. And because he tries to stay away from porn/ masturbating he'd prefer his sexual experience to be with me.

But also is an amazing husband and father when he's not an asshole. Ooof.

For 10 years I wore the pants and was mega bitch with all the power. This a and R, in some way gave him balls, he said he doesn't want to settle anymore, and that he really wants us to have a great marriage.He doesn't want to hide who he is in the shadows.

he won't tolerate bitchiness or being called out or being put down or any meanness coming from me. On one hand- good for him

No one wants to have romance with a " child"

I do like that I don't mommy him anymore. Its a relief for both of us.

Hey, Toughlove, I'm not interested in being a part of this wrathful conversation, but I do want to pop in and commend you for putting the above out there.

And its just my opinion, but based on what you've described, I'd characterize what he's looking for as passion and not some lewd version of a blow up doll. If all he wanted was a nut, he could rub one of those out in the bathroom. He sounds to me like a kind of cake-eater. He wants to be a family man with passion in his life. Not unheard of.

And that's it from me.

[This message edited by Repossessed at 4:09 AM, Sunday, February 27th]

If the goal was to have a great marriage,he would have already made the appointment with the MC.

And he would not have..

Told his wife he didn't love her.

Moved out of the bedroom,to the basement.

Refuse transparency,and would show her his messages with this woman that fancies him..and that he fancies.

Refuse to talk to his wife about how he feels.

Refuse to answer her questions.

He would not be having private conversations with a female.

He would be trying to help the situation, and other than saying he wants to go to MC, he's done nothing.

[This message edited by HellFire at 2:01 PM, Sunday, February 27th]

If the goal was to have a great marriage,he would have already made the appointment with the MC.

And he would not have..

Told his wife he didn't love her.

Moved out of the bedroom,to the basement.

Refuse transparency,and would show her his messages with this woman that fancies him..and that he fancies.

Refuse to talk to his wife about how he feels.

Refuse to answer her questions.

He would not be having private conversations with a female.

He would be trying to help the situation, and other than saying he wants to go to MC, he's done nothing.

This was addressed:

1. Fact: OP responded to his request for MC that it wasn’t necessary snd they should handle it themselves. If you want I can pull up OP’s quote on this.

2. Fact: WH did communicate with OP how he feels. That’s why OP posted this thread in the first place. He told her he wants more physical connection, she said no can do, he said he wants to discuss this at MC, she said let’s do this on our own, WH in response said I don’t love u and moved to basement. What did I get wrong in this chronology of events?

3. I said this before. My opinion is that he said he didn’t love her and moved to the basement as a direct response to feeling rejected by OP. If OP hadn’t rejected him, do you think he would have said those words snd moved to the basement, or is it one’s opinion that he said those words snd moved to the basement simply out of the blue?

Or, maybe it’s the opinion that saying I don’t love you snd moving to the basement is not the appropriate response to the intense feeling of being physically rejected? Or, maybe it’s the opinion that saying I don’t love you snd moving to the basement is not the appropriate response when OP says no to MC?

Can one imagine in WHs mind his feeling that he is being rejected, his desire to go to MC denied, created a situation that his feelings have been INVALIDATED by OP? Is this in the realm of possibility?

I can see both sides to this - OPs snd WH’s. After reading what OP has posted how can one objectively say that what is currently happening is 100 percent on WH? OP has very directly acknowledged that this is not the case.

So, let me get this right. The prevailing opinion is that one shouldn’t care, understand, give even the slightest consideration, or acknowledge that WH could even possibly be upset that because his feelings snd opinions have been invalidated (no to physical touch and no to MC), that he could possibly respond to same by saying I don’t love you snd moving to the basement?

If I can ask for clarification: has your WH refused to show you his texts with this mutual friend? I had the impression that you have total access but haven't bothered looking because you know he has the skills to hide anything incriminating.

Refusing to let you see is a blazing red flag. Having cyber security abilities is not in itself a mark against him, but it also means he should understand why you're uneasy and have to rely entirely on your gut. If his interaction with the friend makes you uncomfortable, he ought to end it, regardless of whether they're actually up to no good. That's the price of infidelity.

. Fact: OP responded to his request for MC that it wasn’t necessary snd they should handle it themselves. If you want I can pull up OP’s quote on this.

No need. Here's the quote.

I never said no to MC, I do however not appreciate him treating me poorly for whatever reason until we go to one. Still waiting for the invite.
If WH wants to go fine by me. I too want a happy marriage.

[This message edited by HellFire at 4:12 PM, Sunday, February 27th]

Dude, you want to talk about how she wasn't into kissing him,but missed that he wasn't into kissing her either..

Won't kiss me on the mouth when I wanted to thank him for something.

She also wanted to have sex on their anniversary. He rejected her.

[This message edited by HellFire at 4:17 PM, Sunday, February 27th]

Did you reject him, or did you reject sex?

I am not proud of my behavior during our son's first few months of life. I knew intellectually that he had to have a higher priority than me, but I didn't accept that in my gut. It took me a while to realize a triad was a lot more complex and tiring than a couple, especially when one member would have literally died without a lot of attention. It took me time to realize that my W's rejecting sex because of exhaustion was not rejecting me. But that was our 1st (and only) child, not our 3rd.

I urge you to remember that you can't change your H. He may change himself, but that will work only if he wants to. What you're getting is what he wants to give.

Gently, Toughlove1, the ball is in your court. You have to choose how to respond to your H's manipulations. Whatever you do, I urge you do it mindfully with some goals in mind, and I urge you to adjust your response as circumstances change.

BTW, I'm not saying it was easy to separate rejecting sex from rejecting me. It remained a problem for me for decades - but it was MY problem to solve, not my W's.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:30 PM, Sunday, February 27th]

It’s obvious to me that WH definitely wants to maintain a physical connection with his wife via kissing in the traditional manner and sex. Plus, OP specifically mentioned that WH lamented the fact that OP doesn’t kiss him on his body.

The fact that WH rejected sex on the anniversary is not surprising in the least. He wants physical connection on a regular basis that is not forced or obligatory. OP offering sex on their anniversary to him represents obligatory crumbs.

It’s one thing to have sex snd physical connectivity on an ongoing basis in an organic manner, non obligatory in nature, so that sex on one’s anniversary is not viewed in a context as pity sex and as obligatory crumbs. Its another thing to say, even though I’m not offering physical connection on a regular basis, it’s our anniversary anniversary so I know it’s expected of me on this one special day.

Same with the kiss. No one wants to feel that their partner is offering up physical connection because it’s an obligation. To me, that’s obviously the context of WHs rejection of same.

OP, how are you today?

The situation has become ridiculous. He is testing ME if I initiate touch. If my kisses aren't long enough, if I don't compliment him on his muscles (he yoyos on weight like crazy, I don't even mention anything anymore), he said being in the basement he had lots of Time to think. Oh boy. A philosopher said that people "think" by having conversations in their mind. And most of them are defensive conversations. He is definitely in Wayward mode.
Not R at all. Thats why all my bells are ringing. Who thought that after 3 years they can regress completely.

Sometimes that's because they weren't really sorry for the cheating. Instead, they were just saying what they thought we'd want to hear and being agreeable in counseling. The behavior here is just so childish though, so self-centered. There's little doubt that he's in wayward mode. Look at the entitlement. His recent choices drip with it.

You haven't said much about what happened or how he got you to agree to R. If he were really remorseful and if he'd done the necessary work that WS's need to do, he would still be remorseful and concerned about you. When we apply logic to it, how could your WH be truly remorseful for what he did and still be treating you this way?? Bear in mind that the difference between regret and remorse is that the one deals with HIS feelings and the other deals with YOURS. If he was truly remorseful, he'd be still be concerned about your feelings. And remorse doesn't just dry up and float away. In example, I'm thinking of a WS who is deeply remorseful and then found out their spouse was cheating. This WS spent so much time and so much effort on recovery that it made it difficult for them to react to having become the victim. A truly remorseful WS doesn't just revert back.

We had lunch with our group of friends today that included that lady friend. Im watching their interaction very closely. They for sure fancy each other. She is complimenting him and vv, theyre bonding over the same stupid IVY school they went to. (Who gives a fuck, its been 20 years) He definitely is admiring her. After he told me that he wants me to admire him and that he wants to admire me this morning.
This all seems like a bad cheesy joke. Wtf is happening.

Do you have a close friend or family member who can come and stay with you for awhile? I think having a witness to how he's treating you might put a spoke in his wheels, maybe break the pattern. And I would definitely take on Hellfire's advice and go back in to investigation mode. I agree that a few days with a VAR under his chair or under his car seat would probably get you the answers you're looking for. Your best bet with a VAR is to make sure the purchase can't be tracked. Get someone else to buy it for you if necessary. Cover any blinky lights with electrical tape. Snip off an old pair of earbuds so that the sound has no outlet and insert them into the jack. Then wrap it up in velcro, being careful not to cover the microphone, and place it up under the seat where a quick swipe of the hands won't find it. You'll want to check wiretapping laws in your jurisdiction, but most will be okay. Do pull his online phone bill and check it. Yeah, you already know he's talking to at least the one OW, but you can also check to see whether his calls hit unexpected cell towers. This is how I knew my own fWH had been in the same city as the OWs.

I'm so sorry. I know you've said you're not looking to divorce yet, and who knows... maybe this is just a flirtation and you guys can go back to counseling and work on getting some real remorse. Right now though, I don't believe for a minute that he's sorry about the cheating. His behavior is too childish, too entitled, and too self-involved. I mean, you can capitulate and give him sex on a daily basis, but I don't believe that would result in continued fidelity. Instead, you would eventually start hearing about how the sex isn't good enough, because what it's really about is ego kibbles. Refer back to how you're not kissing long enough and blah, blah, blah. The argument about "passion" is really about EGO. It's about you making him feel in a specific way. The problem is that we can't manage other people's feelings for them. And when it comes to kibbles, and the NEED for kibbles, the old and familiar eventually get stale. They no longer do the same job of externally validating the cheater. If you think about kibbles like a biochemical cocktail of feel-goods for the brain, you see how the cheater becomes accustomed to the old dosage and then needs to seek out more and more to get the same effect. People who are dependent on others for their feelings of security and adequacy are always looking for more and different and better. I think it's a mistake to try and apply normalcy to the wayward mind. Not everyone cheats, and not everyone is dependent on external validation and other people managing their feelings for them. Almost everyone enjoys attention, flattery, and passionate sex, don't get me wrong. But there's a difference between enjoying something and being in emotional need of it in order to feel secure and adequate.

Anyway, you can try getting him back in counseling and creating a support network around yourself which makes overt abuse more difficult for him. That's one idea. I'm trying to think outside the box, but if I'm totally honest... I'd more likely have my lawyer explain things to him. That's me, not you though. I just think you deserve MORE than a selfish man-child.

((big hugs))