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Dude67, what you are saying makes perfect sense, and is pretty much how my wh articulates it. However in reality Woman CHANGE after birth. And men don't.
We change on every level. Our bodies our hormones our instincts our priorities our freedom. And after allll that we are supposed to circle back to our relationship with our unchanged unscathed husband. This is the biggest tragedy of monogamy.

This is me being completely honest and open;
I have found myself in many situations " giving" my body even though I wasn't fully into it, because in the back of my mind I know he is suffering for lack of physical intimacy. Yes, it might be his love language, or just a horny dude, whatever, I can understand that it has a very strong and powerful grasp on men. But I just wish so very much that I wanted sex as much as he did. My body just doesn't work that way. Not after babies.
He knows it, I know it. He wants more, I cannot give right now, I just can't do it.
Is this a reason to treat me poorly?
I feel like im spread so thin.

So what about YOUR needs?

He is your husband when will he put your needs firsts?

And lets be clear...physical intimacy it not just sex. Is he holding your hand? Rubbing your back? Cuddling without expecting sex? Is he being physically engaging with you outside of wanting to put his penis into your vagina?

If not then he doesn't want physical intimacy he was to screw. And as a GROWN adult he can learn to understand that his wife and mother of his children is unable to give him that right now. As a GROWN adult who should have done the work already he would be jumping into fill BOTH of your buckets in regard to TRUE physical intimacy in other ways.

If all he is missing is screwing...then you will never be able to screw him enough into not being a selfish ass.

[This message edited by prissy4lyfe at 6:39 PM, Thursday, February 24th]

Your WH tried to connect with you with a kiss in what is obviously his love language.

I'm sorry. I know it's popular drivel, but "love languages" are just the unmet needs fallacy wrapped in a Gary Chapman suit. Usually harmless enough, but when we look at them in terms of infidelity, it attempts to make YOU responsible for your spouse's behavior and his choices. And Prissy is absolutely right. If it was about "physical touch", there would be back rubs and cuddling. It's about sex. He wants sex, but he doesn't want to put the work in to repair the relationship which HE has damaged via adultery and mind games. That's because he's got twenty times more testosterone than she does, and also because he's a selfish, intellectually lazy man who puts himself first and treats his wife like she's his personal entertainment center.

I have found myself in many situations " giving" my body even though I wasn't fully into it, because in the back of my mind I know he is suffering for lack of physical intimacy.

As I mentioned earlier, I've been there and done that. But it didn't get me RESPECT, and quite frankly, after my fWH's adultery, I didn't care anymore if he felt "love" for me, but he was goddam going to RESPECT me.. one way, or the other. I know you're scared at the thought of divorce, so I'm not going to suggest that you file on him right now. Realistically though, you must understand that if you don't start getting traction on R at some point, your situation won't change. I think if I were in your shoes, I would interview for a better MC, one who won't try to blame-shift your WH's cheating. I'd also demand that he get some boundaries and dump the female "friends". I doubt it would have been okay if you were the one who cheated, sitting around now, hucking it up with some guy and claiming he was just a "friend". That's particularly egregious when he's starving YOU of friendship, telling you he doesn't love you anymore and stonewalling you. As far as sex goes, I've told my WH before and straight up too, that he only had one choice, and that's to repair the emotional intimacy in our marriage. Any deviation from that would result in divorce, and at this point, I'm NOT scared of following through.

Someone has to take the first step.

She wanted to have sex on their anniversary. He rejected her. Does that sound like a sex starved man,who just needs his mean wife to speak his love language?He also told her he doesn't love her anymore. If your wife told you she didn't love you anymore, would you be dying to have sex with her?

OP, I think he's cheating. I think the OW is the woman he is texting. I think she is telling him he's Mr Wonderful, and that's part of the reason he feels he has done enough work on himself,and he's just peachy.

If he had actually done any work on himself, he wouldn't be texting this woman. He also would be fully transparent.

I think he is sleeping in the basement so he can talk to her after you go to bed.

I think he is doing the typical WS thing,of setting you up to be the bad guy(he needs to forgive you??), so he is able to give himself an excuse to cheat.

I also think you should use a VAR. If you can't put on in his vehicle, put it in the basement.

Has he scheduled this all important appointment with an MC?

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:03 PM, Thursday, February 24th]

I can’t help but circle back to his change in behavior being at precisely the same time you find out he’s been communicating frequently with this other woman.

I’m going to generalize, but women going through a divorce and latching onto the first man who is nice to them isn’t uncommon. I have had my "vagina on board" bumper sticker for 33 years, so no one come for me lol but I have seen it plenty of times. The fact she thinks it’s ok to frequently text a married man shows she lacks a shit ton of boundaries. The fact he is texting her back shows he does too.

It’s too coincidental. I’m sorry, I try my hardest to not project, or go to worst case scenario, but this is just screaming that something is going on that shouldn’t be.

Thing is if you are unhappy you divorce or go to MC not have an affair!

True, which is why it's a good sign that that's what he's now asking to do.

No marital problems are a justification for cheating. Full stop. The WS needs to do the work to figure out what was broken, avoidant and entitled in themselves that allowed them to cheat. Once they develop that insight, they improve their ability to distinguish between false resentment and a genuine problem. For many if not most couples, a dead bedroom is a genuine problem. It's also legitimate to be unhappy in a marriage where no matter what work you do, you're told to stuff your concerns.

I've written about this before, the "tipping point" where a WS can give themselves permission to trust their own judgement that a marital issue is one for which the BS needs to take some responsibility. I don't know your WH and have no idea how authentic his work has been. However, I do know other WS, ones whose work was deep and enduring, who came to a point where they said: I wasn't imagining all of it. I used my resentment to justify inexcusable behavior, but the problems between us were real problems that still have not been addressed. I should have stood up for my needs in healthy ways, and I didn't, and my spouse and I will always have to live with the pain of that choice. If my infidelity was a permanent deal breaker, I accept that the end of our marriage is on me and my behavior. If the marriage isn't over, then there are other potential deal breakers, and we need to work on those, too.

He's doing exactly what he should have done in the first place: saying that he's unhappy with the state of the relationship, that he has physical needs that are typically met within a marriage that you are averse to accommodating, and that he wants joint marital counseling because he cannot live with this status quo. If that's not something you're willing or able to do because of the infidelity, then that's your choice to make. However, it's also reasonable for him to decide that it's an insurmountable incompatibility.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 4:11 PM, Friday, February 25th]

Furthermore we established a new foundation, that was healthy interaction and equality. However the new baby and my professional development has shaken the ground, and tipped the scale, where a party is feeling " needs aren't met", and I am here because when " needs aren't met" I fear that history will reoccur.

What I said prior, snd to which I think BSR is agreeing, is that you both were satisfied with your new relationship. I can only assume this means that your WH was meeting your needs (I will assume emotional, equity wise, etc) and that you were meeting his needs re physical connection.

I’m sorry, but IMO one can’t have it both ways. If unmet needs is a fallacy and excuse, and love language is a fallacy and excuse (which the latter I certainly don’t agree with), then why is the existence of a baby a legitimate excuse not to engage romantically with one’s husband? Why is this in an entirely different category, not allowed to be even brought up by a man less he be labeled an Ahole.

Baby or not, one either makes time and prioritizes one’s intimate relationship with one’s partner, concurrent with raising a baby/child/children, or one doesn’t.

And I’ll reiterate my firm belief that wives who neglect their husbands’s need for physical closeness due to having children are setting themselves up for a situation which leads to resentment, counter resentment, and then yes, a situation ripe for an A. An affair is not the answer, never excusable, and never will be, but the environment has been established.

You had equilibrium in your relationship with your WH, it was working, then you unilaterally altered the equilibrium, contract, deal, understanding- whatever word you want to use.

One can say that having a baby is a legitimate excuse to withhold physical connection with one’s spouse, just as a WH uses an A as an excuse. Neither are correct in my opinion. Is one more incorrect than the other - yes - by far, the A obviously.

However, you changed the rules of the game, your WH properly communicated this with you, you said you can’t (you think baby and he thinks my wife is rejecting me), he wants MC to address the issue that he believes you created by changing the rules, and you reject MC.

This could be any husband, under circumstances where an affair never occurred.

So again, my recommendation is to go to MC as he is properly requesting and communicating.

He's doing exactly what he should have done in the first place: saying that he's unhappy with the state of the relationship, that he has physical needs that are typically met within a marriage that you are averse to accommodating, and that he wants joint marital counseling because he cannot live with this status quo.

But that's not what happened. What happened is that he told the wife he has ALREADY cheated on that he doesn't love her anymore and moved out of their bedroom and into the basement. Then, he stonewalled her on the reasons why, saying that he would only discuss it with an MC present. And all this while he's got a female "friendship" going that his betrayed wife is uncomfortable with.

This pressure on the OP to have sex with her clearly unreformed cheater would never happen if the genders were reversed. Can you even imagine a thread where a man would be encouraged to have sex that he didn't want with a WW who had done all of the above??? Chatting up an OM every night and saying how she didn't love him anymore? Really? Would we encourage him to drop his pants and do the horizontal pick me dance at that point?

The OP isn't doing anything wrong here. She's reacting in a really normal way to a WS who hasn't remediated his poor character and is continuing to mistreat her.

And I’ll reiterate my firm belief that wives who neglect their husbands’s need for physical closeness due to having children are setting themselves up for a situation which leads to resentment, counter resentment, and then yes, a situation ripe for an A.

Disagreed. It's men who allow the emotional intimacy and friendship to be destroyed by their demands for sex who ruin the relationship. If a man "needs" an orgasm, he's got a hand. If he needs his wife, he'll treat her like a legitimate friend and an equal partner every day of his life.

One can say that having a baby is a legitimate excuse to withhold physical connection with one’s spouse, just as a WH uses an A as an excuse.

I don't agree with conflating these. Here again, I don't know how old the baby is, but after I had my first child, I was barely capable of dressing myself, let alone getting down and funky. The kid had colic, I had nursing problems, and she would only sleep when someone was holding her. About six weeks in, I discovered that "falling asleep on your feet" was not an expression. My knees buckled, and that's what woke me up. If my H had gotten butthurt about lack of sex in those conditions, you'd have heard my reaction from three houses away.

But I get a sense that there's more going on here, a mixture of hormonal changes and betrayed pain that influences OP's response to her husband. When talking to us anonymously, she admits that she understands his unhappiness about their sex life and has her own private concerns about her lack of interest. She says that her dominance and criticism of him was not healthy and that it's good that he's standing up for himself. But when talking to him, she says that she doesn't see a need for counseling, and therefore it's not happening. She's angry and triggered by his feelings, and that's the face she presents to him.

I get that, honestly. It's scary to make yourself vulnerable to someone who has hurt you. It's hard to give up some of your power and acknowledge the places where you have your own work to do. I admire the OP's balanced view of what's happening here and don't want to reduce it to "making excuses." But it's also not a picture of a healthy marriage, and it's not unreasonable for a person of either gender to request counseling over an ongoing lack of sexual compatibility.

I'd agree with you BSR, if we weren't talking about an unrepentant WS who is actively stonewalling and gaslighting his betrayed spouse.

I agree with CT.

BSR, if a WS has done "the work," would they be constantly having private conversations with a member of the opposite sex? Furthermore, a person that has a crush on them,as OP indicated this woman fancies her husband.

Would a WS,who has done the work, refuse to be transparent with their phone? Refuse to show their BS the texts between them,and this friend?

I absolutely agree that a WS, who has done the work, can reach the decision that divorce is best.

But that's not what he's done. He's moved to the basement,where he spends his time conversing with his female friend. He's told OP he does not love her anymore,and refuses to have any healthy communication as to why,unless there is an MC present. A WS who, says MC is so necessary, but has not made an appointment.

he thinks my wife is rejecting me

And,yet, on their anniversary when she told him she WANTED TO HAVE SEX WITH HIM, he told her no. Sounds like he is rejecting her..odd for a man who is dying for sex.

[This message edited by HellFire at 10:08 PM, Friday, February 25th]

I’m a man. I have a kid. It’s a no brainer that vaginal sex is off the table for at least six weeks post partum. I was just as tired as my wife post partum, she would readily agree with this statement, yet we prioritized and made time with each other to be intimate. Even if it was only kissing. WH wanted a kiss. by the way. That’s all. What he got was a resentful angry kiss.

My gut tells me that there’s much more to it than that. One can argue all day long whether a husband needs to be more emotionally connected first snd the wife will then be more physically connected, snd vice versa. But that is not my point.

This is my point. No matter how bad the M was, WH should not have cheated. But he did. WH snd BW moved past this snd crested a new reality, relationship, understanding, snd equilibrium. So here are the facts:

1. Bad marriage. 2. Husband cheated 3. BW and BH come to a mutually satisfying agreement on taking care of each other’s needs. 4. Baby comes 5. There is no communication regarding a change in the mutually agreed upon contract 6. Wife shuts husband down with no real and honest back snd forth communication 7. Husband retaliates in kind by saying I don’t love you snd moving to the basement 8. Husband wants to solve problem via MC. 9. Wife shuts that down

You’re basing your assessment on how the husband used to act. The husband who had the A. You’re basing your assessment on the cheating husband. The husband, post A, negotiated a mutually satisfactory arrangement with his wife. The wife negotiated a mutually agreeable relationship with her WH. This then unilaterally changed.

Your assessment is that unilaterally shutting the husband down and changing the agreement is far less egregious than him saying he doesn’t love his wife snd moving to the basement. Who’s to say? Who is to say that the wife’s actions are totally normal and understandable but the Dickwad husband has committed an egregious act against the wife?

The husband feels rejected by his wife, but that’s ok. He’s a Dick to begin with snd it’s totally OK for a wife to refuse to show affection towards her husband post partum and also refuse MC. She’s post partum and he’s a cheating Dick so that’s that.

But of course, the dickwad cheated so no matter the fact that husband snd wife came through this snd now find themselves in a totally new reality, the husband can’t escape from the Scarlett letter, so anything he does or says moving forward is indicative of him being an Ahole.

To add. Being post partum does not automatically bestow the authority to dictate terms to a husband. They have the right to communicate, however, as does the husband.

One last thing. You’re very bothered by WH storming off, saying he doesn’t love BS, and going to the Basement.

He doesn’t feel loved obviously so he lashed out. I’ll ask BW - do U think he really meant it when he said that or was it the rejection talking?

Do you understand how many wh treat their wives during an affair?

For some..nothing changes.

For many, they start treating their wife like shit. They give the ILYBINILWY speech. They shut down communication. They make everything the fault of their wife. They sometimes start sleeping on the couch. They refuse transparency. They refuse to show their wife their phone.

Ding,ding,ding!

Add in..which you are conveniently leaving out..he is texting a woman who has the hots for him.

Red flags abound.

[This message edited by HellFire at 12:20 AM, Saturday, February 26th]

Hmm. Hellfire makes a lot of sense. Three years after his affair and the WH is acting like an ass toward his wife. The ILUBINILWY speech along with moving to the basement is ridiculous. In light of this choice, the WH offers no idea what he plans to do other than discuss the matter with an MC present at some unknown future point in time. WTF! I remember the night my ex-WW told me she didn't love me. I slept in another room the next night. Nothing was ever said again other than that we both decided to stay together. I went back into our bedroom the next night and our sex life never missed a beat. Little did I know at the time that she was immersed in her first affair.

As part of R, the WH must be transparent. He is the opposite of that right now. He is doing everything that a remorseful spouse should not do. To top it off he is texting another woman. There should be none of that given his history.

As part of R, the WH must be transparent. He is the opposite of that right now. He is doing everything that a remorseful spouse should not do. To top it off he is texting another woman. There should be none of that given his history.

Yup. He may have legitimate concerns about how HE has been treated, but 'renegotiated contract' or not, his current behavior WOULD NOT exist is he was a remorseful wayward. Certain things, even if 'innocent', should never be done again. In this relationship or any other.

I never said no to MC, I do however not appreciate him treating me poorly for whatever reason until we go to one. Still waiting for the invite.
If WH wants to go fine by me. I too want a happy marriage. And having an unhappy partner is not a good place to be in.
My baby is 6 months old, still being fully breastfed, and sleeps ALL his naps on me because of reflux. He wakes up between 6-8 times at night. I suffered from postpartum anxiety, the cousin of depression. I thought I was dying. So no, I don't think that you have a baby and rules shouldn't change. Not for life, but atleast till baby is physically not on me day and night.

Side note; my WH really wanted this child. We had many many discussion over how this will shake our marriage and our sex life. Since this is our third, we knew very well what will come and prepared for it.
My Wh Was extremely supportive until recently out of the blue he changed his behavior.

Off topic, I asked him if he checks the AP Facebook and he said he does sometimes. I asked him how does it make him feel, he said it made him feel foolish to have had the a with her. Why would he check her fb?! I know why I do- Curiosity, what does he get out if it?

Tough love you didn't get pregnant by yourself. So you didn't change the contract...you both did. It's ridiculous to think that after having a BABY things stay the same.

And good for you...if he isn't mature enough to deal with not getting his penis wet for while then he isn't WORTHY of you.

It's such unmitigated BULLSHIT that he is acting this way.
And HE is unhappy. He is acting like an ass. He is speaking to another women. He wanted this baby that you are nursing on demand.

He doesn't want marriage counseling...he THREATENED you with it. If he really wanted he would have a therapist, scheduled it, found a sitter/someone to stay with the kids.BEFORE starting to act out like has.

And this baby HE wanted How much does he help with him/her? The other kids? The house? Errands?

[This message edited by prissy4lyfe at 2:19 PM, Saturday, February 26th]