SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Let’s say that the love btwn this man and the AP is actually 100% true love. If someone says they are not in love with you, and would rather be with someone else- why stay and try to convince them otherwise? If you truly love someone set them free. Right?

The reason why I don’t think that your H loves the AP is the same reason I don’t believe my H loved ME during his affair (despite what he believed at the time) When you love someone you want the best for them. You don’t put them in danger. You don’t introduce issues to their life. You don’t cause them unnecessary stress. You don’t do things that will put their home at risk. You consider the implications of how your actions will impact them.

That is true no matter the length of the relationship.

Affairs that involve married people always negatively impact the people in them. They are universally selfish and shallow because of that.

Infatuation, lust etc are different than love.

My H said the same thing to me during infidelity. He said he cared for me loads but not in love with me. We were together at the time for nearly a decade and we struggled with infertility. For nearly 10 years I could not get pregnant. I was getting immense pressure direct and indirect from people around us. I fell into depression and I think he did too. Like yourself we travelled around the world together every year. We made up for it in other ways where we couldnt have children. We had a beautiful life laughing and enjoying life to the fullest. I never suspected a thing...

The AP is nothing like what I expected. Lets just say love is blind. Eventually when he did get his head out of the clouds (or should i say his arse) he said he did not know what he got into him. He did not love her and did not have feelings for her. Apparently something took over him. I say thats a lot ot BS. He told me he loved her and he wanted a divorce. We were extremely close to getting a divorce as well. For a few years i still thought he meant his words when he told me he loved her but through his actions and remorse I know that wasnt true. I kept asking him if he had feelings for her still and if he does then he should go. I will not live with someone who is in love with another and thinks about anothet rather than trying to make things work with us. I think he loved the escapism and the fantasy of having a mistress. Weve been in R for over 5 years and still in R. We now have a toddler and expecting our second child. Will i ever forget what he did to me? Never! I will not be able to blindly trust him ever again. I choose not to.

Maybe another angle:

He has feelings for OW.
Great.
Let him have them.
Only you don’t stop and wait for him to find an emotional secondary role for you.

Tell him he’s free to be with OW. If she’s so important and so vital for his happiness that he’s willing to risk what most would consider a "normal" marriage then she’s got to be something special. You don’t want to be the person that stood in the way of "special" or his happiness.
Tell him you realized that if you forced him to remain married it would create resentment and therefore your marriage could never reach the height that you want out of a marriage.
Tell him you love him and always envisioned remaining married, but that you love his SO MUCH and you care for him SO MUCH that you won’t stand in the way of his happiness.

Only… tell him that you too deserve happiness. The ability to create a good marriage where he has to forfeit this "special" person isn’t realistic, not any more than the ability to create a good marriage where you sacrifice your happiness.
Therefore – maybe BECAUSE you love him so much – you are setting him free from all marital restrictions. He can skip along to what he misses and overdose on her all day long. Only not as your husband.

Then tell him that you are no longer placing any emphasis on saving the marriage. That it’s best if you two find a civil and decent way to terminate this marriage. You will definitely miss him – just like he is missing OW. Only you are 100% certain that once you accept reality and what you are gaining from your sacrifice YOU will no longer miss him. Not any more than he would miss her if he was really committed to the marriage.

Thank you all for taking the time to read and to respond to me. It means a lot to me.

There have some updates in the last couple of weeks…

- I sent this thread to my WH. He read all the responses. It stung him enough that there have been some positive changes since - he has started IC, he is trying to do more, giving me hugs and cuddles, speaks kindly etc. For the first time, I felt like there was some genuine effort and progress.

- Just when I thought maybe there might be some hope - DDay 2 happened on 2nd October, 2022. The other BH let me know that he is parting ways with his wife (who is the AP to my WH). And the main reason for that is that his wife told him that she and my WH were in touch very frequently for the last year or so. Up until now, I blindly believed that my WH was completely NC with AP. I confronted WH and he confessed. DDay 1 was in March 2021. They were in touch on and off till Dec 2021 and from Mar to July 2022 - things got more serious and the physical acts escalated to having sex a few times which did not happen before DDay 1. They talked about living their life together but no concrete plans were made. It seemed like the AP was waiting for my WH but he was confused. After he started MC and IC, he told AP not to wait for him as he wanted to work on the marriage.

WH is now extremely apologetic and crying and pleading on his knees for forgiveness and a last chance. He said he was carrying this huge mountain of guilt with him and did not have the courage to come clean before to me even when he asked for a divorce in July-2022. The reason for not coming clean then is because he did not want to hurt me even more and push back whatever personal progress I made in my healing. He was confused himself and did not have or seek out for the proper guidance (find a good counselor, etc)

So when he asked for a divorce in July-2022, I, (who was completely unaware that he was still in contact with AP) suggested we try MC as a last resort till the end of the year to see if anything can be saved. Only after we started MC, after he read this thread on SI, after he started his first IC last week (where he realized that he never had anyone to talk to emotionally growing up so he blocks and hides all his emotions etc), he realized he should be doing much more and started working towards it. He now wants to work on this more than ever and is going to continue IC. He is saying all the right things that should have been said and done much earlier after DDay 1. He was extremely sorry after then too but after months of seeing me breakdown, I guess he wanted to escape the chaos he created and went back to AP.

On DDay 1, I was frenetic, disoriented, angry, sad, was hitting myself, incessantly crying, throwing things - basically I went crazy. On DDay 2 - I felt like a fool all over again for believing him. My initial reaction was a mixed bag of shock, disbelief and numbness. how can a person be this selfish? I did throw a few things around when I heard that things actually escalated physically and they started to having sex in the car. But soon after my mini break down, I felt a strange sense of numbness, calm and clarity that I need to take care of myself now more than anything. I have to remove myself from the presence of this stranger. I plan to start IC soon.

I have asked him to move out of the house for some days to give me space to process. I told him that there is nothing left to save here as I don’t know if I have it in me to bear more trauma and more triggers from DDay 2. I tried asking for details - where they met, how many times they did it, why, how, what, when etc. WH is ready to answer but halfway through it, l lost energy to know all the details as this thought kept lingering in the back of my mind - how can we live together after all this?

WH is motivated than ever and said his feelings for the AP are now gone. I don’t know whether to believe anything he says. I am slowly beginning to feel indifferent. I don’t even feel anger towards him, just feel numb. And a deep sense of sadness for the death of the man I married.

Why do I feel sad to see him cry? Why do I feel that I need to show him kindness? My gut tells me this is over and I believe it but I have never seen him cry like this in my life before. He wrote me an apology email last night reflecting on the good things I have done for him and the good memories from our relationship. He says he wants to work on himself and to be the man he used to be when we got married. But all this feels so late.

It is so commonly said here that the As don’t kill the marriage. The continuing lies are what put the final nail in the coffin.

While you get into IC, start detaching— read about the 180. It will help you get that space you need to think, to decide what you want and need.
And probably good to see a lawyer to educate yourself and understand — knowledge is power and it helps remove fears and unknowns.

Who knows if he can really change — that will take time.
You will figure out if you want to wait around a second time - IC will help with that.

I’m sorry you had a 2nd DDAY. (((Hugs))) You are strong. You will get through this.

He says that he's sorry and that he loves you.

He's also said that he loves his AP.

Based on his actions, which of these statements do you think is true?

There is an old adage that says "If you have to choose between me and her, choose her. Because if you really loved me there wouldn't be a choice"

That being said - ideals are very different from reality at times.

Don't make any knee jerk decisions. Take all the time you need to figure things out. Be kind to yourself in the process.

I'm so sorry he put you in this position. I'm glad that your numbness is giving you a bit of a break from the hurt. Goodness knows you've earned one.

It does make sense to learn that he has been in contact with AP and continuing the affair. I don't think I've ever heard of a man who was still "in love" with an AP after 18 months of NC. If that relationship was really severed, then those feelings would disappear (as he claims they have now that he knows you may not be an option any more). That level of intensity of feeling for an estranged person would be really unusual.

WH is motivated than ever and said his feelings for the AP are now gone. I don’t know whether to believe anything he says.

You're absolutely right. You can't. Last month he was telling you that his feelings for you couldn't come back and now he's telling you his feelings for her disappeared? This guy doesn't know what he's feeling. He's gone from the high of having two women to choose from to the low of having the wife who was desperate not to lose him walking out the door, numb and indifferent. That doesn't feel good to him, so he's scrambling. Whatever he says to you now, he's not a reliable narrator, and it would take a long history of openness and self-insight for you to trust that he's become one.

Put on your oxygen mask now, and breathe. Lean on your friends and family for support. You don't need to have all the answers. Just cocoon. You'll know what to do when the time comes.

Well there goes giving him some credit for honesty.

He was still in an affair and telling you how hard he was ‘trying’ to fall back in love with you……feeding your insecurities even as you tried to understand his perspective. That’s twisted.

Please don’t lay it at the feet of his childhood. He made every single choice to get you both here. Time to stop letting him makes decisions about your life without your consent.

So his AP now wants to fulfill their romance in the real world. But that means consequences. That means exposure. That means costs in time and money if you move towards divorce. It’s not surprising that he now wants to get it all back under control. To get under the umbrella of R.

I hope you’ve found your righteous anger and start putting yourself and your healing first.

Sending you hugs.

Let me know when the anger hits. I was in your shoes but the false reconciliation was only 6 months.

Unlike you, on dday2 I had NO sympathy for my H. I did the hard 180 and it was very unpleasant for him.

Unless my children were gone, I did not have meals with him. I stopped doing his laundry. I stopped doing errands for him. I stopped speaking to him.

I also told him I was D him and he was free to be with anyone else he chose. I was no longer standing in his way.

Funny how all of a sudden he no longer wants the single life. funny how he’s begging for a chance to R. I had NO sympathy for him.

You need to put yourself first and stop worrying or caring about him right now. Just my opinion. But I can tell you it was the best decision I made after dday2 of affair2.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 11:48 AM, Thursday, October 6th]

Where were his tears when you were suffering for 18 long months? His crying now is for himself. He is worried about what he may lose--lifestyle, comfort, reputation.

Why do I feel sad to see him cry? Why do I feel that I need to show him kindness?

Please don't. This is misguided. Do not be manipulated by the tears he cries for himself. For 18 months+ he has been selfishly stabbing you in the back. Let him suffer. It's important that he face the natural consequences of his very poor choices.

Focus on you. Take care of you. Cocoon, as someone else said. I found/find the feeling of cocooning myself to be so helpful during times like these, where I just do whatever I need in the moment and worry about nobody else's feelings. Journal your feelings, take bubble baths, read, watch whatever, reach out to friends for a chat, write him letters you don't send, nap, go for walks. Do whatever you need to love yourself and be extra kind and understanding of your self-focus and limited accomplishing. Good luck in IC. You should get lots of support and validation.

I'm really sorry that he has been such an asshole. You did nothing to deserve this.

Why do I feel sad to see him cry? Why do I feel that I need to show him kindness?

Here is why, but you may not like the answer. Please take this as constructive criticism, because most of us have been there:

You are feeling these emotions not just because you still love him, but you are desperate for him to change his ways. You so very much want to reconcile, that you are making excuses for his poor behaviors.

He was extremely sorry after then too but after months of seeing me breakdown, I guess he wanted to escape the chaos he created and went back to AP.

Because he didn't know how to cope? Even after his six IC sessions over a year and a half?

WH is now extremely apologetic and crying and pleading on his knees for forgiveness and a last chance. He said he was carrying this huge mountain of guilt with him and did not have the courage to come clean before to me even when he asked for a divorce in July-2022. The reason for not coming clean then is because he did not want to hurt me even more and push back whatever personal progress I made in my healing. He was confused himself and did not have or seek out for the proper guidance (find a good counselor, etc)

Why is he so worried about wanting another chance? If he was so concerned about your healing....and not revealing his continued lying and cheating because of his guilt, then why is he asking for this? Why isn't his PRIMARY concern to let you continue to heal?

Lost,

He may be on the right path. He may still be lying. The only one who has that answer, unfortunately, is not a reliable source at this time. The best thing that you can do is what you last suggested---give yourself some safe space. Stop worrying about what you think he is doing and feeling, and watch the actions. Hell, you had to send him a link to this thread to motivate him. STOP DOING HIS WORK. Let him prove if he can get his act together, and be a suitable partner....that is if you even still want such. Personally, I think that it would do yourself best to give yourself time to emotionally detach a bit, and look at him through THOSE eyes.....the eyes that WE can clearly see from here.

He may be crying for himself.

You just don’t know.

What you do know is how he feels - and that is not something he can deny. You learned the truth.

Now it’s time to make your own life. Your own decisions.

I don’t feel love or desperation for him to change. I think I am feeling sad and wanted to show him kindness when he broke down on his knees - as a fellow human being seeing another one in pain. It is just haunting for me to see this person who physically looks like the dimpled handsome man I married and at the same time looks like an unrecognizable cruel stranger.

Since DDay 1 - there have been so many times I have told him that being cheated on and lied to by your partner is the worst ever pain and literally begged him to never to do this again to me or to anyone. I even drew parallels on how he would feel if his father did the same to his mother. he could see me in so much pain or I believed he did. It just baffles me how this person who (before A) was so kind, caring and nice to me and to all of his friends, his family, my family - became this unbelievably selfish. I haven’t even been kissed by him since DDay 1 and here he is having sex with his friend’s wife several times and coming back home to me and is drained from my breakdowns. I am just completely stunned at how someone could compartmentalize at this level. I honestly NEVER EVER thought there would be a DDay 2 but here it is. The thought of having a gps tracker in his car or being paranoid about him contacting AP was something that never occurred to me as his phone/email etc was always available to me whenever I needed and I believed he was not capable of causing more hurt to me than he already did. He just found new ways to hide and lie. Guess this is a learning for any new BS…

WH is staying in a hotel nearby and texts me multiple times a day - telling me about his whereabouts (which feels irrelevant after two DDays), asking me about my sleep, whether I ate, etc etc. he is listening to some audio book on self-awareness, is sending videos and reminiscing about our good memories. I hardly respond to him. He asked if he could see me just for a few minutes on a couple of days, I told him I am not ready. I am not even trying to consciously 180 him, that is all I have for him. I am unable to look at his face and don’t know what to talk to him.

I feel so sad and sorry thinking about how clueless I was. These last two years have completely destroyed the silly, happy, innocent person I used to be. It is so hard to act normal in front of friends, family and colleagues. For now, I am just trying my best to be there for myself. It is hard and feels very lonely.

Do not make it easy for him to come home.

Do not make it easy for him to believe he can boo-hoo his way back to the marriage.

He lied to you and had you in false reconciliation for a long time.

Now (and I mean now) is the time for YOU to start asserting yourself in your marriage and in your life.

At dday2 I restored my power and I stopped being a doormat. I said no to a second chance of R. Why would I do that when my H continued to lie and cheat while I was working my butt off to R the first time?

Dday2 brought out the anger in me and the sense of I need to do what is BEST for me.

I never told my H anything about what I needed to R. I told him he was in his own and I was not helping him. He needed to figure it out and if it worked, it worked. If not, I was still planning to D him. And he knew it.

We have a different marriage now. And he knows he has no more chances and no ability to sweet talk me if there are issues. I don’t compromise on things I don’t want to. I expect him to honor his word 100%.

And he knows I will walk out the door for any reason. He has zero chances left. It doesn’t has to be cheating that may force me to leave.

My motto is you are either with me or not. If not, get out of my way.

You have no reason whatsoever to believe that he will EVER change. A guy like that can waste your whole life. His crocodile tears and even his "are you okay" queries are for HIM. It's such an ego boost to think of you ashen-faced and weeping over him, right? He's so great that you're a wreck at the thought of losing him. Some people FEED on that shit. It's validation. It's centrality.

I'll be honest.. you're young and you're not chained to this cheater by shared parenting. Six years seems like a long time to you, but I've been married for nearly forty and I can tell you that adultery is not a good starting point. You might feel like you need to fight for this relationship because you made a commitment and you honor your word. But he demonstrably did NOT. We can't carry a marriage alone. It requires two people who have enough integrity to value the things they claim to value.

My advice would be to step back and reevaluate what's really important to you. That way, you can set your priorities accordingly.

((hugs))

In the Quote thread in F&G: I can tell you that adultery is not a good starting point.

If I ever experience a d-day 2 from my W, and I can guarantee I don't want a 2nd d-day, I'm likely to chalk it up to 'W did a LOT of work to heal from the self-hate that caused her first A, but she needs to do more work'. She really has done a lot of work.

But it looks like your H hasn't. I agree that you have to choose between 2 paths, offering a last chance or ending your M. I urge you to figure out what you want before making your choice. And remember: if you offer a last chance, you can take it away if your H doesn't deliver on doing the work he needs to do.

I also agree that you can't believe a word he says about loving you. Maybe he is telling the truth, but don't believe him until you experience actions that show what he really means. My reco is to require - among many other things - that he sign a release that allows his IC to talk with you about his goals and progress. (I was once in a therapy group in which a member told his W he wanted to R and told us he wanted to D; the therapist worked with him to tell his W, but she was prohibited by law (I think) from telling his W without permission.)

I feel so sad and sorry thinking about how clueless I was.

Yeah, BTDT. You weren't clueless. You just gave him the benefit of the doubt, which is what any loving partner would do. He betrayed you. He failed. You didn't.

These last two years have completely destroyed the silly, happy, innocent person I used to be.

Nope, she's still in you. She'll come out when you realize it's safe to be yourself again, though I expect some of your innocence will be gone. You can be happy again. Your H failed; you didn't.

It is so hard to act normal in front of friends, family and colleagues.

Do you really have to act 'normal'? Just asking. Acting normal was, I thought and still think, best for me in my sitch, but it may not be best for you in your sitch.