DRS, You've claimed you have no doubt that you'd cut off a betraying partner. My memory of your story is that your GF left (even though you were the one who brought up splitting); she did not give you an opportunity to R.
Given the large number of BSes who have posted here that they never thought they'd consider R if they were betrayed, I just don't understand your certainty.
** Doctor to Member ** (this is just an attempt at humor, in fact splattering of attempts are made throughout - trying to keep it light - goes without saying no offense is meant to anyone personally in this response, especially not you)
Yes, this has been a concept you've struggled to grasp for as long as we've crossed paths on this forum. That's fine; I, too, struggle to understand many concepts that inform how others choose to conduct their lives. In fact, merely one post before this, I outlined my struggles to comprehend the virtue of forgiveness. The fact that I struggle to see the virtue in forgiveness often means I fail to follow the logic in people's choices.
What I find interesting about this argument is that a similar idea was being debated on the wayward forum. It was essentially a wayward suggesting no one can say with certainty that they wouldn't cheat. It's precisely the same argument, just the other side of the coin: 'You can't know what you'd do if you were in my shoes, etc., etc., etc.' Very much a bargain-basement philosophical justification for making poor choices, I feel, but I will address this at the end.
To answer you more directly: how can I know what I'd do? Not to get all Jordan Peterson on you, but I suppose it depends on what you mean by "know." If you were to employ David Hume's views on induction, nothing is inherently knowable. He argued that there is no rational justification for inferring that the future will resemble the past based on past experiences. That is to say, we cannot assume the sun will rise today simply because it did yesterday. In that sense, I know nothing.
If you mean it in the more common parlance—the sense where you may say: "I know I would never have sexual intercourse with a duck"—then yes, I do feel I have certainty on my claim. Believe it or not, the one subject I don't think it's arrogant to claim definitively I know more about than you, is myself. I understand myself better than you do. I understand the disgust I felt upon discovery; I understood that whatever love existed evaporated. I understand that even if I were to feel conflicted, my stubborn alignment to principles (likely born of seeing what my cheater father did to my mother, whose attempts at R left her a shell) would not have allowed me to relent. I understand that justice is far more important to me than an easy life. In fact, it's more crucial than that: I couldn't have an easy life knowing that no justice was dealt. I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror.
This is why I believe self-worth is so crucial to the infidelity question. Someone with high self-worth recognizes that their partner getting dumped and you leaving their lives as a partner is justice. Them losing access to your time is justice. I worry many don't have this self-perception and are merely happy to cling to the heels of an abuser and take whatever they get. Fear and low self-worth. Fear is understandable. Fear of change is often cited as the single biggest fear amongst humans. Change is scary. I mean, we've already learned our betrayer's extended family's names and their best friends' birthdays, so we cling to our betrayers. We can't do better, and to try is scary. I'm not saying everyone looks at the world that way (in fact I've posted in depth about the many counter principles and reasons it can be noble to reconcile) but it's heartbreaking to me that there are any.
However, I don't expect this personal account will do much to change your mind. To flip the question on you: Do you believe you can say anything about yourself with certainty? Is everything a: 'well, you don't know till you live it' kind of thing? If so, what makes you so certain you wouldn't have sexual intercourse with a duck? Or do you have to walk a mile in a duck-botherer's shoes before you can say? You haven't lived the life of Jeffrey Dahmer, so how can you say that in his shoes, you wouldn't have a nibble?
The more serious side of that question is: you say, 'Given the large number of BSes who have posted here that they never thought they'd consider R.' What about the large number of waywards who say they never thought they'd cheat? This is the cross roads in the discussion, someone who holds inflexible morals with someone who can bend them in the pursuit of joy or comfort. This is why we have the disconnect and why you can't understand my certainty. But, for my money, If you live your life with that mentality (that anyone can betray their principles under the right circumstances), we are all cheaters. We are all abusers. We all reconcile. We are just a bad circumstance away, and principles, morality, and discussions are all just meaningless. We will all betray are long held principles in the face of a trauma. It just has to be the very specific form of trauma that the person in question has been through. Beat by beat or it doesn't count... well I'm sorry, I do not subscribe this world view. Furthermore, I think its merely a deeply nihilistic justification.
You have an interest in history? Well, given that, I feel the weight of history outlines the inaccuracy of this mentality. You undoubtedly will be able to give countless examples of figures throughout history who were willing to have their skin peeled off, be hanged, drawn and quartered, or sawn in half rather than contradict their principles. As such, I think managing the dissolution of a household is fairly light work, relatively speaking.
Can I say with certainty, like those great people throughout history, that I would consume the poison rather than retract my criticisms of the gods? No, I don't have certainty in that. I don't know if I have that sort of strength or fortitude. However, I can say with certainty that I would dump a cheater, even if they were pleading for a second chance (which no, they weren't in my personal scenario though I did initiate break up talks)
I could also dedicate another paragraph or two to my doubts regarding how deeply those BSes who say they thought they'd never consider R if they were betrayed truly considered the matter. I suspect these were fleeting thoughts rather than deep introspection, running through hypotheticals, or true meditation on the matter. I think that's an important distinction, especially as I had done these things due to seeing what infidelity and R did to my mother... alas, I've written so much that I'm sure no one cares now.
Sorry, that went on a bit. In the great words of Radiohead: "For a minute there, I lost myself." (Damn I so wish I got tickets, tried for all the dates across Europe) I hope that is a comprehensive answer to this question. People like to throw the 'how would you know' around, so I thought I'd use this opportunity to put it to bed, with a nice glass of warm milk, read it a bedtime story, and never have to revisit it again.
[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 3:30 PM, Friday, November 21st]
