SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Not really a question but more of a conversation.

Due to me researching infidelity online over the last 2+ years I always seem to get a few click bait articles that I always feel compelled to read. The other week I read one called the 10 types (maybe more😂) of infidelity.

It broke infidelity down into categories such as ONS’s, emotional affairs, physical affairs, online fantasy etc and even financial infidelity. And it got me thinking is any of these better or worse than each other? Is one type of infidelity easier to forgive and move on from.

My personal experience is dealing with a physical affair. And TBH I think in general most people would say this is the worst type of infidelity? Not sure there was much emotion there as he dumped her the minute I found out and went NC as far as I know. For some reason I chose to stay even though some days I wonder why? I do question myself as to why I let myself be treated so poorly by someone who supposedly loved me and then not kick them to the curb!

After a lot of self reflection I realise for me him having sex with someone else wasn’t the issue. Heck I’ve even wanted to open the marriage up after I found out as before meeting my WH I enjoyed the odd ONS so I thought why not?

It was the lying to my face and the disregard for how it may make me feel that killed it all for me. But if that was the case I don’t know why an affair upset me as much as it did as my WH has always been a liar and he really was very low in emotional intelligence.

But when I read this article I wondered what else I could or not forgive. The truth is porn has never worried me, fantasies about others and sex is the same I assume because we were always open and honest about these things.

The financial infidelity would more likely be a deal breaker for me I think. To completely ruin my financial future would make my blood boil. I have a close friend whose husband always spends their money without her knowing and got her into a bit of trouble that way but she forgives over and over. But can’t understand why I stayed 🤷🏼‍♀️

One of the other infidelity’s listed was ‘social’ infidelity which was described as one person going out with friends, doing hobbies, sport etc without doing anything with your other half. If that is the case then that was me and my WH was actually the BS. I didn’t want to do anything with him at all. Our marriage was trash!

I guess I find it interesting what some people can tolerate and what others won’t. Heck I’ve seen people divorce over things I wouldn’t even have an argument about. As a species I find us very complicated 😂

The financial infidelity would more likely be a deal breaker for me I think. To completely ruin my financial future would make my blood boil.

I get that, but a physical infidelity could completely ruin your health and literal future, if one passed on the right/wrong STD, you know?

There are definitely layers to this. There are some stories I read here that I consider way worse than when I went through. For me, I usually consider the ones where the wayward spouse is just verbally cruel on top of the physical infidelity to be worse, or when a pregnant spouse is cheated on, or a brand new vulnerable parent, or the cheated-with-the-best friend or sister/brother scenarios to be worse. And the ones where the betrayed spouse is physically ill.

I think infidelity is horrible to the person it happens to whether it's a ONS, emotional, physical, LTA, financial, etc.

For me if my xWS had an emotional A that was short lived would have be better than the carrying on a whole relationship while we were married (LTA). The fact that my xWS had multiple LTAs ranging our entire M made our entire M a lie. That was a mindf**k unto itself.

I also believe the way a WS treats you post discovery cannot be considered equal.

Probably too many variables to compare and also how the BS receives said infidelities.

The worst form of infidelity is always the one we're experiencing. You know, we don't compare pain around here because, for the most part, it's all of the charts.

I read a lot of the same, or similar, articles on the "types" of infidelity. While I think there's some truth to what these authors write, I mostly found it to be mental masturbation.

It was the lying to my face and the disregard for how it may make me feel that killed it all for me.

Yep. I've read the same or similar sentiments from more betrayed spouses than not. The affair was bad enough, but the lying, minimizing, blame-shifting, gaslighting, obfuscation, and all of the rest of it, was what killed it.

As a species I find us very complicated 😂

I could easily get into a discussion about why I think infidelity hits most people as hard as it does, but that's a very long and complicated topic.

This is a topic I've generally steered away from as a WS, because as a group, we're overly prone to the phase "at least I." At least I never did anything in our house, at least I confessed, at least I went NC -- anything that sets us apart from other, more egregious cheaters. The work of a WS involves recognizing those excuses and accepting that there's nothing exceptional about our own story.

That being said, I'm a madhatter, so I'll tell you the things I'd have a hard time getting past (in theory; no one knows for sure until they're in the fire):

An OC

Taking deliberate risks to prove his love for her in my presence or in our house

Leaving me for the AP and only coming back when she dumped him

An incurable STI

Spending a lot of money on the A

Big romantic gestures

Anything involving our kids

I've known successful reconciliations that involved most of these challenges, though.

It's interesting. I kinda thought sex would be higher on my list than it is. Maybe it's because, as a WS, I know how much larger it looms in people's minds than in reality.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 10:10 AM, Saturday, November 15th]

I've discussed this topic before, especially because I'm in the minor leagues I get to observe the more severe variants almost from the perspective of someone that hasn't been betrayed at all.

For each person, the betrayal they have to deal with is kind of the worst one. You can't sit there and excuse it as "well at least it wasn't...." because it lends itself to minimization on the part of the WS.

All that said I have a number of factors to consider that I believe on each continuum make it worse. Each ranging from "none" to some further end.

Required aspects of a betrayal:

Emotional - Top end of this is something like them having exchanged "I love you" and meant it (at least in the moment).

Physical - Top end is sex acts denied to BS and transmitting STD to BS.

Duration - top end is they were never faithful.

Priority / Level of deceit - top end is skipping a major life event in the family such as funeral/graduation/etc. to be with AP instead.

Optional bonus menu:

Double betrayal - involving someone else you trusted, top end is sibling/parent/child/best friend.

Financial - top end is taking on a huge amount of secret debt to fuel the A.

Purity - BS has no other sexual partners.

Location - marital bed and landmarks of shared meaning.

I'm sure there are other ways to make it worse.

What I don't know is how much of any one of these things I would be able to R through. I wouldn't expect my current R if you asked me before my wife's A. Ask me now and I say DDay 2 of any kind equals divorce. Ask me again on DDay 2 if you want the real answer. I don't really *know* what the answer is.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 10:04 PM, Tuesday, November 11th]

I definitely think there are levels, with some types of infidelity being worse than others. I can imagine some scenarios that I just wouldn't be able to recover from. An A with a close friend or relative, tawdry, wild sex doing things with AP they've never done with me, multiple affairs, possibly a LTA that involved an extended period of time of lies and deception, and FOR SURE a 2nd d day.

That's just off the top of my head, and to be honest it's kind of hard to say for sure because I thought a PA of any kind would be an instant deabreaker for me no matter what, but here I am, still with my wife 7 months post d day...

I put my story in the "cheat while traveling" type. As far as I know he ran with a group of attractive folks, got a little carried away and then changed jobs which got rid of the temptation. I was told, never confronted and got on with life.
I would not be able to live with someone who fell in love, texted romantic things, mooned about over having to give her up etc. I have a pretty good tolerance for the stupidity of ws but can drop someone like a hot rock if I begin to feel small about myself. My go to would be, "How dare they treat me like this!". Yet bs forgive very egregious behaviors all the time and I do not judge them. It is what you can tolerate. I do think my love/loyalty would have a shelf life.

I think it ultimately comes down to each BS's mindset, so yeah, hard agree on us being a complicated species!

Personally, what destroyed me more than the sex was how much he loved her, and how hard it was for him to give her up, and then 10 months later disclosing a second EA that was nearly a PA with AP2. The lying to my face after dday, and the continued self-absorption and lack of self-control were also big factors in my decision to divorce him. If he'd had a drunken ONS or hired a prostitute/gotten a happy ending once, I would've still been devastated and disgusted, but I think R would've been easier for us under those circumstances because he wouldn't have had as much to hide, so his behavior during R would've been better for me.

I was a hopeless romantic before all this, and really wanted the "mate for life" story. That's not possible once someone has EAs.

Imo, they are definitely not all equal but they are all painful. As we see from responses here, the many, many variables that make up an A are seen/rated differently from person to person. On top of the actual A variables you have the post d day behavior variables which i think of in a different category and of course can add enormous amounts of trauma to the A.

The BS also has a set of characteristics, values, mindsets and skills that impact significantly post dday. And i suppose the marriage partnership itself, pre A, comes into the mix too.

I would not be able to live with someone who fell in love, texted romantic things, mooned about over having to give her up etc.

Cooley - 😂 this was my H’s last midlife crisis affair. One I never thought I could (or would try to) get past either.

But I did.

I have to remind myself every so often that I was being kicked to the curb for the much younger drama Queen OW. My H was the KISA (knight in shining armor) who was going to rescue her from her miserable life.

Funny how the day I told him he was free to go and be with her was the day he no longer wanted to be with her.

I always told myself I would never stay married to a cheater. But after his second affair I realized I had to put myself first and that is when I planned to D him.

Fortunately he has changed. And 12 years later from dday2 of affair 2 we are very happy.

In many ways you could define all actions that are contrary to expectations in a marriage and/or actions that are deterrent to what could be considered a healthy marriage as infidelity.
It then depends a lot on what the expectations might be...
Might also depend on the level or severity of the break from expectation.

I don’t really think many couples start off with a clear and complete list of expectations. There are some assumed expectations, some norms or generally accepted expectations. Like I guess 99% of marriages have an expectation of fidelity, and that expectation is clear to all partners. Even in "open" marriages then there is a mutual understanding and therefore dipping into outside-temptations not infidelity – you are staying within the accepted borders and expectations.

Expectations might also have some cultural basis and therefore cultural differences. Like one partner might think it is OK for him to decide all financial decisions because that’s how it was in their family of origin. Or that there is no need to share household chores. Or that it’s fine to spend four evenings each week at the boozer.

I think it can benefit EVERY couple to have their broad boundaries and expectations clear, even those we might take as given.
We sometimes jokingly say that the absolute worst infidelity ever is the one YOU experience. I think that might apply in many of the various types of infidelity:

Discovering your spouse spent the savings on horse-races and owes thousands on credit-cards is tough. It might cost you your home and your pension. That would be tough, and financial infidelity.
If same spouse starts breaking you down emotionally, pushing you into doors and walls, chokes and beats you... That would be a breach of marital expectations and not being faithful to the marriage. That might be worse than the financial infidelity.
What about catching him in bed with your sister? Would that top the financial infidelity and the abuse infidelity?
What if you catch your financially abusive, physically abusive and cheating husband where he’s sexually fondling your 12 year old son?

Of those – which would be worst?
If you can quantify that then yes – some infidelities can be worse than others.

Personally I think the old adage that the absolute worst infidelity ever is the one YOU experience applies.

The one common theme to any type of affair is the total destruction of trust.

For me, had my wife been physical with her AP I would have simply filed for divorce because I know every time we were together physically I would think about her doing the same thing(s) with him and there's no way I would allow myself to be tortured with that for the rest of my life. I know I would forever wonder did he do this better? Did she enjoy this more with him? Did she do things with him that we don't? I know I would have driven myself insane.

Financial infidelity, I guess it would depend on the level. For example if my wife blew our retirement savings on something I would have to end the relationship. If she spent a smaller amount of money on something stupid foolish Etc without consulting me I would probably get over that depending upon what it was spent on. If that money was spent on male strippers or breast implants I would end the relationship

If I found out she told another guy she loves him I would end the relationship because I'm going to wonder if when the day comes she decides she'd rather be with him so it would be safer for me to just end things

If she was spending time with other people and I was purposely being excluded that would be a huge red flag and I would have one discussion about it and if things did not immediately change I would end the relationship. If she told me she was going to something that was a mixed group of guys and girls and did not invite me I would ask why am I not included and unless it was something strictly for employees I would let her know that I am not okay with this and if she goes through with it our relationship is going to end

Ever since finding out about her affair I have drawn boundaries around what I will and will not tolerate with coworkers. For example, there is absolutely no going out with coworkers if it's a mixed outing. Call me insecure if you want but the majority of affairs start at work and if you throw in an after-hours social event that includes alcohol well that creates opportunity. If she goes out with female coworkers and male coworkers somehow suddenly spontaneously join in she has to leave. I have never been comfortable with coworkers going out drinking together and I tolerated the rare occasion it happened but ever since her affair I have made that a hell no boundary.

So yes I think there are different degrees of infidelity, some of them can be repaired, some of them cannot, at least not for me

[This message edited by WB1340 at 4:30 PM, Thursday, November 13th]

IDK ... in may ways, W & I are hippies. We talked about open M when the book came out and agreed that it was not for us. At some point, we talked about how we'd respond to infidelity, and we agreed that it wouldn't necessarily mean D if we both wanted to rebuild. We're modern people - and we were both surprised at how much the A hurt.

I guess it's natural to compare things, but I think there are too many variables in betrayals and responses to betrayals to compare them.

At the same time, I believe it's a trap to compare betrayals, especially when one result is for a BS to discount their own pain because some other betrayal seems 'worse' or to take on the Victim role in a Drama Triangle because one thinks one's experience is 'worse' than someone else's.

I think it depends on the person and how they are wired up. On DD and the days after I was told of the following.

X 3 uses of sex workers with full intercourse.
X 1 use of sex worker for oral sex only.
Visit to men’s club and got a lap dance.
2.5 year on and off kissing/touching affair with COW.

Personally for me the kissing/touching affair has affected me most, I think that it is because I see this as the biggest threat to me. I’m sure if others were asked, they may give different answers with different reasons.

I think infidelity affects different people in many different ways, i’m not sure that they’re equal to everyone, but I do know that they are all selfish and cowardly.

This thread intrigued me after a conversation I had a couple of weeks back with a friend. She has found out there has been infidelity in her marriage as well, and we were discussing our experiences as the question of comparison came up. So I'm interested in SI's point of view on the question. Sorry if this is a thread jack.

My own shitshow is, as far as I know, that my WH had an A for slightly less than three months from first kiss to getting caught. He claims, and has claimed for 3 years now, that there was no EA prior, that he was shocked when she first kissed him. It was a colleague (isn´t it always?) and she had just divorced and separated from her H a few weeks prior. He ended it immediately, as far as I know. It was both emotional (no straight ILY's but something adjacent to it, he was definitely emotionally engaged in some form) and physical. 6 make out sessions and one BJ at work . That's pretty much the extent of it.

Her's is completely different. Her WH doesn't agree its infidelity even. Huge surprise But obviously it's a huge betrayal. Her H has had what I gather is a 'crush' or more, on a colleague and close friend on and off for 7-8 years. There has never been anything physical (she happens to know this for a fact, won't go into how since it's not my story but she does know this for sure) as both are M. There has been no sexting, no ILY's either, hence, her husband argues this is no affair only a deep friendship with some mixed feelings. On SI we might argue slippery slope perhaps. But apparently he has contemplated leaving her to see what might be with his colleague, for years but never acted on anything. There has been slight flirting, and 'business dinners' that she now after disclosure feels are more like dates than business dinners. They have discussed how unhappy they are in their marriages, but there has never been any direct discussion of anything between them. Their kids have even met under the disguise of 'just a friend from work'. My friend always knew about this woman but didn't feel threatened as she was also seemingly happily married. It was actually my marriage's implosion that started her investigating her H phone and finding years of chats.

So now to the comparison discussion. She said she wishes her WH had 'only' had the A mine did. And I was shocked. To me, my WH's A seems significantly worse. Since her H has never touched his AP in any inappropriate ways, never said ILY, there has been no sexting etc, to me, it is a betrayal yes, but also shows signs of partial restraint on his part for years, and with that, character of some sort at least, as he hasn't given in to his feelings I guess? That, to me, shows som semblance of respect at least for his M and his W. Whereas my H took no time at all to jump straight into the physical part with a woman as soon as she showed him interest. Yes it was shorter, I suppose, but it was both physical and emotional. He had NO restraint, no respect for me or our M, and to me seems to just have thrown me and our lives under the bus for what? a BJ at work?

I do see her perspective as well obviously, it's been years and years, and she now questions if he has wished he were with the AP all these years instead. But worse than an A that has gone physical as well as emotional?I know many argue women usually find the emotional aspect more difficult to get over than the physical, I do not subscribe to that view, at all. Compare it to a ONS with a stranger, now that I agree would be 'less bad' (although horrible anyway obviously). All this just to say, I agree with this of you that argue comparisons really don't work, because the betrayal we ourselves endure always feels worst, I guess?

[This message edited by Miserylikescompany at 3:47 PM, Saturday, November 15th]

I think that's most of why I don't compare betrayals. First, I simply don't know how I'd react if my W's A were different from what it was, and I know even less about how other people react to their betrayals or to other people' reports of their own betrayals.

Among other things, I believe PAs can occur without EAs first (i.e. before the PAs). My W didn't have am EA, though the relationship was sick/unhealthy from the start. Once the PA started, there was lotos of emotional bonding, also sick.

I sometimes have to force myself to do this, but in general, I keep to a 'I had/have my experience, and you had/are having yours' stance. As I say, sometimes I have to force this attitude, but usually it's been eminently doable.

WRT your friend ... in our 11th year of M, I attended a 14 week out of town class. I developed a crush on a classmate. She had no interest in me - I think she was bonking someone else in the class. (I went home for a weekend after 4 weeks of the class. The instant I saw my W, I realized i was just lonely. When I went back to class, I saw my crush as attractive and even very sexy, but my crush was over. I just pined for my W and kept reminding myself the class would end soon.)

A crush in not an A, IMO, if it's not reciprocated. I'm not even sure it's necessarily a betrayal - I certainly fought my attraction, so I'll give myself a pass. But giving in to a crush IS a betrayal, IMO. Your friend's H ... my strategy with W2b was to become a friend, and see what develops (but I was unattached when I started with W2b), so he's definitely on the slope at best, and complaining about his M ... that's way out of line, I think. So I agree that your friend rightly feels betrayed. I just don't think it's an A.

OTOH, if he's not seeking an A, he's doing something very close, so maybe it IS an EA....

@Miserylikescompany, a "business dinner" that involves conversation about spouses and relationships and other topics unrelated to business is a date, not a business dinner.

That's why I have always been against coworkers going out drinking together after work. Alcohol lowers inhibitions, people become too relaxed and comfortable with each other, conversations take on a personal tone, someone throws out the first innuendo, someone ups the ante, next thing you know an affair starts.

I'm sure there are other ways to make it worse.

The involvement of children in the affair fantasy is an extra spicy addition to the mix. The danger of bringing them around a morally bankrupt outsider. The implication that you are being sized up for replacement not only as spouse but also as parent. Add a creepy grooming element to it with a cover up and you’ve got a pretty toxic stew.

Things can always be worse. I suspect that we have a top limit of pain that we can feel and infidelity pins the scale. I never read anyone’s story and think it’s somehow lesser. Nobody comes to an infidelity forum if they are doing ok.

No, not all affairs are equal. However, it's probably not advisable to compare pain. It's like asking a patient which is worse an amputated arm or an amputated leg? And each person deals with various forms of infidelity differently. For me, the worst part of my ex cheating wasn't the sex, but the everyday betrayals and lies, as well as the fact that he actually started to care for her over the 2 year affair. For someone else, a one night stand might have been worse because some can't get over the fact their partner, for one night's thrill, thought their relationship was so casualy tossed aside. My pain can't be compared to my own pain of past infidelities of other partners, much less someone else's experiences with infidelity.