SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My wife did something along those lines. She called me to come to her shop because this guy was giving her the creeps. I came over talked to him and really found him as no threat at all. She would end up sleeping with him. You need to show her consequences. Being nice isn't going to cut it. I started packing her shit up. I explained she had to leave. Without real consequences she has no reason to leave fantasy land. She is just adapting to the little boundaries your putting in place and your playing the pick me dance. She gets kicked out, has to explain it to her kids and her friends and her family and yours. She runs to AP and his wife and kids do the same to him and fantasy island becomes a living hell for her. She either comes crawling back or they live together just long enough you find a suitable replacement and she gets to wonder what if the rest of her life. Either way your in the drivers seat instead of being a passenger.

I think in life we make choices or decisions that are not always what they seem. By that I mean for some people they choose to remain with a lying cheating alcoholic spouse (random example here). Maybe it’s for financial purposes or fear of being alone, but they choose a situation many others would not accept or tolerate.

It is possible that people accept their spouse or partner for who and what they are. They don’t expect changes or monogamy or honesty. They know what they are living with and accept it.

Nothing is perfect and we all accept the good with the bad. And if it gets to be too much, we re-evaluate and change the decision, or not.

I think in this case the fact that something very different is on the table bodes well for the possibility of change and getting the relationship desired.

As I’ve stated in many posts, from an SI perspective I would have been very foolish to give my CH a third chance. But I did and it worked out perfectly for us. I changed. He changed willingly on his own.

Miracles do happen and I consider my successful reconciliation a miracle

Maybe OP’s will work out to his benefit too.

Thank you, @The1stWife. I do appreciate everyone's responses, even those that aren't encouraging of reconciliation. One thing I know for certain, everyone who is posting understands the trauma of this situation and is part of a club that no one who is not can fully understand.

Whether you understand it or not, your biggest problem is that once you found out and she saw the devastation it caused you, she still decided to continue with it. That is your biggest obstacle you have, and one that some of the most R positive people would see as relationship killing.

Change can happen — it did in my M.

I understand why people choose to walk away, I absolutely have that option until the end of days.

But, I am glad I stayed.

Two people being all in to rebuild something worthy of them both, is rare, and yet, worth all the work we did.

It takes a lot of consistent actions by the WS to show real change, a LOT.

It took me a couple years to believe my wife’s actions, and yet, she kept after it, knowing her changes may or may not be enough.

C81

Triggers? Absolutely. 9 months later, I am lower than I probably was any point during our past periods of fictional "recovery." I don't see this as bad. The shock is gone. The adrenaline has worn off. I theorize that this deep sadness is normal. I understand trauma so much more now. No hour passes without the affair being on my mind. It's like background music in my mind. I don't know if that will ever change.

Question about your triggers…would you say they rise to the level of PTSD? You reference the bomb going off in your mind when you saw those text… Is that a specific thing you can think about and just feel the trauma?

Or is it more just like a deep sadness for the whole episode?

I ask because there are techniques to change your emotional relationship with those memories. There are specific ones that work in dealing with specific trauma incidents, of which finding those texts may well be such a moment. There are also ones for dealing with the emotions attached to the general memory.

Time itself won’t necessarily heal that connection between the negative emotions and the memories, in fact it may well just cement it. Better to actively address it.

Take a look at my profile for some suggested reading that points to exercises you can do yourself.

Question about your triggers…would you say they rise to the level of PTSD? You reference the bomb going off in your mind when you saw those text… Is that a specific thing you can think about and just feel the trauma?

Or is it more just like a deep sadness for the whole episode?

I definitely feel like all of this has left me with something like PTSD. My wife is doing some EMDR in her own IC. I may consider it. But so far I've tried to get through those trauma reactions to things on my own.

I do think the deep sadness state that I am in now, and the reevaluating my whole marriage and who my wife is on the inside is harder than those first months of adrenaline and shock.

Carpenter81,

Thanks for sharing your story. You have my sympathies as a fellow BH.

I haven't posted here in a long while but your story struck a chord with me. Some aspects of your WW and AP's behaviors seem eerily similar to that of a former coworker of my wife and her relentless, narcissistic AP.

I can't top the sage advice you are getting from other SIers here but I do have a couple of thoughts. This might come across as harsh but this is coming from a genuine desire to help a fellow BS.

First, clandestine long-term affairs seldom go away without some kind of exposure. Many times BSes are so keen to protect their family's good name and/or shielding their kids from the bad news that their parent did some terrible things that they keep the A hush hush. It may well be that in your WW's case, awareness of the A among family and friends/associates common to your and AP's families might be a necessary safeguard against backsliding. Think of this as something one would do for a loved one who is a recovering alcoholic or a substance abuser. The burden of vigilance need not entirely be on you. Would this guarantee no relapse? Obviously not, but this might deter a marginal bad decision or cause a small pause at a moment of weakness.

Second, has your WW been assessed for personality disorders? There seems to be an eerie, repetitive pattern in the types of behavior she exhibits (per your post). Your WW seems fully cognizant of the catastrophic risk to her marriage, her career and potentially her standing with her children and yet she wouldn't end the A. That part seems not unlike the behavior of an addict. Your WW was/is getting something from the A or the OM that she finds hard to resist. What is it and why? Your chances of a successful R will be dramatically higher if you both understand the "why" and take mitigating actions.

I am praying for you and your family as you navigate through this mess.

It may well be that in your WW's case, awareness of the A among family and friends/associates common to your and AP's families might be a necessary safeguard against backsliding.

Our kids know. Our close friends know. That's as far as we're going to go with it.

Second, has your WW been assessed for personality disorders? There seems to be an eerie, repetitive pattern in the types of behavior she exhibits (per your post). Your WW seems fully cognizant of the catastrophic risk to her marriage, her career and potentially her standing with her children and yet she wouldn't end the A. That part seems not unlike the behavior of an addict. Your WW was/is getting something from the A or the OM that she finds hard to resist. What is it and why? Your chances of a successful R will be dramatically higher if you both understand the "why" and take mitigating actions.

I think anyone can fall into an addictive behavior. From what I've read here and so many other books and articles, it sounds like the addiction of an A is unique and can take hold of anyone who goes down that road one time.

We are working hard on the "why" in IC and MC. I don't know that I'll ever understand it, but her willingness to pursue it and overcome it gives me hope.

I am so sorry and hurt to hear this story. As other have said, your capacity and desire to forgive is wonderful. And most certainly Christ can redeem...I believe that.

Yet I also want to toss out there that at some point, it might be worth considering the reality that the desecration and dishonoring of marriage holistically is a factor that needs to be considered.

I say this not being vindictive or unforgiving, but from a vantagepoint that sometimes consequences are needed to show honor to a greater cause.

I do want to ask about the "respect" aspect of this. And please don't take this wrong way. I sympathize with you more than you know.....but....do you respect yourself? Do you potentially think you may have unhealthy codependence?

I pity your wife too....oh my I weep for her. The level of deception and dishonor is tremendous. There was undoubtedly demonic influence with this I suspect.

My prayer is that she is utterly broken and her eyes open. And that Christ strengthens your heart and heals you. This will need his touch. And I know He is able and willing.

We are working hard on the "why" in IC and MC. I don't know that I'll ever understand it,

Unless you become like her, you won't. Whatever the reason, it won't make any sense. The reason is because she is weak.

Character,

Coco is correct. You have male dna. She has female dna. You will never have the particular chemical cocktail swirling around in your brain that her dna produced in hers. You will never feel what she was feeling.

We hope that parental training, education, religion, vows, and ceremonies, and God, etc. will imbue us with the necessary character, honor, integrity, decency to resist the primal instructions our dna gives us. To somehow overcome the chemical cocktail.

And for some of us, it does. For others, not so much.

Coco was correct, again. Your WW was weak.

The question is, will she always be weak? What’s going to happen the next time she senses a man hunting her, and her dna once again produces that riot of chemicals. Will today’s experience strengthen her, improve her character, etc. enough that it prevails over her dna tomorrow?

Let’s hope so.

[This message edited by Formerpeopleperson at 9:26 PM, Sunday, December 28th]

Save yourself some $.

Her why is because "the cheater wanted to".

She was all about the ego boost and "puppy love" feeling and chose to be selfish.

I had a guy that I knew very well hit on me at a party. I wasn’t flattered I was offended. I knew his wife & kids and was very upset about his feelings being made known to me.

I asked his wife about it and she just laughed it off. Probably because she knew nothing would ever happen. Because I’m trustworthy lol.

I don’t know why people find this acceptable, chasing after people who are married or in a committed relationship. They are only looking to use you for sex. Not sure why people don’t get that.

It's not a reaction to what you said, you are not naive but it's a bit much to dress yourself up as a martyr and don't negative the fact that your wife was so disgusted and sorry with herself that she actively continued the affair and deception, time and again. If he hadn't left... well..

Now she gets to play remorseful hero, all the pity/dutiful/remedial tender intimacies. You get to go to IC but she cheated?

Sorry that she cheated on you and all the world crushing destruction that brings.. world crushing destruction..again..and again and again.

And sorry she did this

I'm not sure what you are trying to save at this point. Multiple Affairs for multiple years, lying to your face multiple times, false reconciliation, hiding their Communications. She has shown her true colors multiple times so in my opinion it's time to cut her loose so she can be who she wants to be with whomever

I know this sounds harsh but can you honestly say your wife has changed? She really has no reason to do so. She keeps cheating and gets to stay married so why wouldn't she just keep doing it?

Something is broken and/or missing in your wife and until this is fixed or found she will probably just continue doing what she's doing.

I apologize for being so abrupt but reality is reality. It's time for you to take steps to make yourself happy. Can you ever see yourself happy with her? Do you think maybe you will always wonder what she's doing when she's not around you? Will you forever be checking her phone for deleted messages?

ETA: As to the why do people cheat, simple answer, they wanted to. They were selfish, the affair made them feel good, they didn't care one bit about the damage it would cause when discovered. All they care about is themselves until everything implodes and they see the pain and destruction their selfishness has caused and for some that is enough to cause a permanent change for the better but for others it's just a temporary change and once the dust settles and someone else shows interest they are off and running.

I asked my wife several times what did you think would happen if I found out and she kept saying I never thought about it. Months later she finally admitted the truth. She said I thought you would just be upset for a little while and then get over it. That showed me how little my wife thought of me.

The only way she will possibly understand the pain is for her to one day discover that I am having an affair when she thought everything was great between us now since fixing our relationship after her affair

[This message edited by WB1340 at 5:24 PM, Monday, December 29th]

I asked my wife several times what did you think would happen if I found out

I asked my H the same. First, he said he thought I'd never find out (even though he was very bad at hiding the evidence). He actually thought all 3 of us would be friends because she was such a great person and I wouldn't know.

Second, he said he thought I was cheating on him and wouldn't care. Absolutely ridiculous! That was something he made up in order to justify what he was doing.

It's all BS. They lie to themselves as much as they lie to everyone else.

Change can happen — it did in my M.

I understand why people choose to walk away, I absolutely have that option until the end of days.

But, I am glad I stayed.

Two people being all in to rebuild something worthy of them both, is rare, and yet, worth all the work we did.

It takes a lot of consistent actions by the WS to show real change, a LOT.

It took me a couple years to believe my wife’s actions, and yet, she kept after it, knowing her changes may or may not be enough.

Oldwounds, thank you. I just read your profile story with tears in my eyes. I want your perspective. I'm working towards it. I know some here read my story and saw naivety from me and a marriage beyond saving. My W is broken, capable of hurting me incredibly deeply, but ultimately I am choosing her now, and choosing to move forward. I see her doing the same, and I believe one day we will have a story like yours.

I don’t know why people find this acceptable, chasing after people who are married or in a committed relationship. They are only looking to use you for sex. Not sure why people don’t get that.

Sometimes the targeted person in a relationship to these people matter less thatn the ego boost they get from "stealing" him/her. It becomes a trophy to feel superior.

I think the OP neighbor with narcissistic tendencies falls well into that category.
I dealt with some people like this in the past, when some female friend were abused, came quickly to realize you may try talking sense once, often is futile. But they understand terror very well. And they left the girl alone. They are cowards deep down.

I still believe that the majority of people feel like I do, even if you are single and hitting on someone, the moment you find he/she is in a committed relationship that is a hard stop sign.
If you respect that other person and respect yourself that should be natural. Even more, if no matter their paired status they look receptive and responding, that is a huge red flag that should exclude this person from the dating pool even if they become single. It signals deep issues and immaturity.

Behavior of the people who hunt for married or committed people is predatory, but the receiver needs to have their own issues to fall for it.

"They are only looking to use you for sex. Not sure why people don’t get that."

I think that people that are programmed only for monogamous committed sex may not understand that for a lot of people being used only for sex is very alluring or even the peak of their sexual experience. They get what it is and it's part of what makes them crave it.

[This message edited by Itiswhatitis000 at 10:58 AM, Thursday, January 15th]

"They are only looking to use you for sex. Not sure why people don’t get that."

I think that people that are programmed only for monogamous committed sex may not understand that a for a lot of people being used only for sex is very alluring or even the peak of their sexual experience. They get what it is and it's part of what makes them crave it.

I came to understand that we are neither monogamous or polygamous as a crystalline state.

(Speaking from an anthropological point)

Monogamy is just that: commitment.

When you form a bond with the person you put above everyone else, is because of trust and security more than the normal attraction, that this person will always have your back and you will have theirs.

Is the best 'survival strategy' for both partners and their offspring, it forms strict bonds and increases the long term chances of success of your now shared bloodline.

That is why is so fulfilling in every aspect, physical, psychological, spiritual, emotional.

At some point every single person feels a pull towards monogamy, the difference is some people with issues only want to "receive" the commitment, but they are not yet emotionally mature enough to fully reciprocate. That's how we end up in this forum.

Polygamy can be both a survival strategy or a way to 'vet' for potential monogamous, committed partners.

When you do not have strong bonds, or yourself are not yet capable, for immaturity, traumas etc, this is the "better than nothing" option. It has its functions: it's a genetic lottery where you might not secure the offspring future by forming the strongest bond we have (family), so their survival chances are much lower. Sure there is genetic variety to somehow balance the odds, the best genetic combination might still survive, but without solid parenting the little one's chances of making it to adulthood were stacked against them.

Some hypothetical spin: our ancestors who engaged in polygamy (with the exception of leaders we are speaking pre civilization) where either forced by being social outcasts or lower status (often males) or trying to secure help and survival or elevate their own status (often women).

Pregnancy and labor was a risk until recently, so it was way riskier for a woman to go through that without a partner, those who chose to 'keep their option open' may have had better chances to survive and pass on their genes.

Same goes for men. That's possibly, no matter how 'immoral', where infidelity had a biological role in survival. It could be that it was likely never the preferred option, but it is very likely it played a 'beneficial'role back then where it kind of 'made sense'.

Today we still carry on those behaviors. We likely all want monogamy when feeling secure, and polygamy happens when we are exploring, trying to understand and find 'safety'. So we ping pong between those depending on where we are in life, emotional and mental maturity etc.

For some people who cannot experience safety, even this feeling of being used might feel alluring not simply because is a deeply felt need of being objectified (as we assumed here), but because their (likely traumatized) nerve system confuses that with familiarity (trauma) and that gives a sense of pleasure.

Is twisted, but is a mechanism very similar to addictions and self destructive behavior.

It can be helped if the person realizes it, that is why therapy can change those patterns and is so beneficial for these people (and those around them).

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 11:02 AM, Thursday, January 15th]