SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So I've been married 15 years. Things have been good. 2 crazy kiddos. House. Good jobs. Lots of love. But in the last year, my wife had been getting a little more distant and wanting more from me and our relationship.

I've been a pretty solid dude. I'm very affectionate, great dad, do dome stuff around the house. But she had always complained about wanting more from me in life and at home. Our sex life hasn't been in the best shape for quite some time. It's been a topic of discussion for us over the years. I only tend to initiate on the weekends, and she has a stronger sex drive and I have turned her down often throughout the years.

About 8 months ago, she tells me that she doesn't feel connected to me and isn't sure about us. She also said that she had feelings towards someone at work. This person was already married, and was having a pretty open affair of their own at the office. She knew this. I told her why this person is worthless. She listened. We cried and talked. The door was still open for us, however, she said.

I paniced and turned all my stuff around. Became super dude. Got in great shape, was super present at home, taking care of business in the bedroom. Things were getting better. But I started suspecting her of hiding things from me and still harboring feelings for this wildly toxic person. She told me she cut off contact outside of the office. But she kept reaching out sporadically.

After a very difficult conversation, where this person was directly caught having another affair at the office, she told me that she was completely done with this person, which I believe, but "had been in love" with this person based on manipulation, promises, and lies. She had hid so much from me over the past year. Swore on our children that there were no feelings. Turns out, they had sex when I was out of town.

She is deeply groveling now to stay together. I never saw this coming as she is a pretty thoughtful and considerate person. I know I do have part of the blame for making the home life not ideal. I was checked out a bit, depressed cause I have wild kids, and not the best sexual partner. But I want to be clear, our home life was never bad, I just wasnt great. The trappings of this affair are so overly toxic, that I question whether I did play a bigger part in its occurrence. I'm better than this other person in almost every way. I'm embarrassed, broken, and lost. She seems so very genuine in her repentance. How can I forgive? I'm still madly in love with her.

[This message edited by Sadguy78 at 11:55 PM, Saturday, January 17th]

YOU DID NOT cause the affair. You must stop taking any blame. You even said when she brought issues to you, you responded. Yet she broke the vows. What she did is so disrespectful and deceitful. You may not even know half the truth yet.

Friend, guard your heart. Start watching Jake Porter on YouTube.

Immediately tell the spouse of the AP. Don't tell your wife you are doing it however. Take control.

Others will give you detailed advice on other topics.

Again, stop blaming yourself. She will run with that to avoid accountability.

Very sorry you are going through this. It will be a very long and difficult journey. But you will survive. Post much here.

Another important thing. Do not go to a normal counselor. If you go anywhere, see a Betrayal Trauma Therapist.

Seek God for wisdom.🙏

Even if you are the worst husband in the history of mankind it was HER choice to have an affair. YOU were NOT part of HER decision to do something that will permanently change your relationship.

She had the option to divorce and start up with another man but like all cheaters she wanted to keep her cake and eat it. She didn't want to give up the safety and security you provided by divorcing so she did what all WS's do, they put their selfish desires above their marriages and their kid(s). They are so selfish and caught up in the fun/excitement of the affair that they are willing to gamble the destruction of everything that has been built.

I strongly suggest you reach out to his wife and let her know about the affair. She has a right to know. I also suggest you have a full STD panel done on yourself and demand your wife does the same. You don't know if they practiced safe sex regardless of what she says.

Healing from an affair takes years and that's if the WS does everything correctly. Restoring trust takes years as well.

Your wife is broken. She has a LOT of work to do on herself before she can ever be considered a safe partner again. I would suggest you demand she starts working with an IC. You would benefit from talking with an IC as well but not the same one. After several months if you want to try to repair the relationship then start working with an MC.

I strongly suggest you wait before starting with an MC. They typically try to convince you to put the affair behind you and start building a brand new shiny sparkly relationship. That's the mistake I made (I hadn't found this forum yet)

Let her know that you are considering divorce as an option.

Please do not sweep this under the rug and "move on". It never works in the long run. It only festers and builds pressure.

You mentioned turning into super dude. Did you do it for her or yourself? I was a good husband and father. Busted my ass providing. Did those little things that showed my love for her. Bent over backwards. That didn't make me more attractive, it had the opposite effect. I was the steady dependable reliable trustworthy husband and that became boring because she assumed I would be there no matter what. She took me for granted.

The eleven years younger than her husband coworker who carried a gun, badge, bulletproof vest and flat top haircut who was charming, charismatic, flirty, now HE was the fun guy, the exciting guy.

April 4th will be my two year D-Day anniversary. Our R is still ongoing. My wife sees an IC weekly. She has made a lot of improvements and our relationship is better in some aspects but an affair causes permanent changes. Your relationship can never be the same. You now know that your wife is capable of something that you never thought possible. Truth is, all relationships are at risk of an affair from day one. There is no such thing as a relationship that is 100% affair proof.

I will never implicitly trust my wife again. Trust yet verify, wise words to live by.

Do you have access to her phone? Know her passwords? Does she use messaging apps? Do you think she told you everything? WS's are known for confessing what they believe is just enough. They are afraid that if they tell all the relationship will end.

If you suspect that she hasn't been 100% honest which is typical then tell her to write down a complete timeline of everything, no detail left out. When she is done ask if she has been completely honest. When she says yes ask if she is willing to take a polygraph. If she instantly replies yes then chances are good she had been honest. If she stalls, stammers, pushes back, then you can assume not.

Put yourself first from now on. Tell her what YOU want, what YOU need. Tell her what she HAS to do to start repairing the incredible amount of damage that SHE willingly inflicted upon your relationship. Tell her she always has the option to walk away, same as you.

Whatever you do, don't do the pick me dance. She has to believe that you are willing to end the relationship otherwise she has little motivation to change.

You are in for a rough ride but we are here for you :)

[This message edited by WB1340 at 10:01 AM, Sunday, January 18th]

This is not your fault. There's nothing anyone can do in a relationship that justifies an affair, and it is far beyond a "mistake." She had to make a series of choices and decisions along the way to do this. She had many opportunities to put the brakes on before major lines were crossed. She had many, many other choices she could have made to either try and fix whatever problems you might have had. She could have come to you and told you she was still unhappy and considering breaking up because someone else was giving her what she needed, or at worse ask for a separation or divorce before jumping into bed with someone else. She didn't give you that chance.

You need to get out of the mindset that you somehow brought this on. You may or may not be partly responsible for problems within the relationship, but she is 100% responsible for her choice(s) to betray your vows, your trust, and your marriage. Like I said, there are always other options that don't include a such a fundamental betrayal of trust.

Your marriage is forever changed now. There's no taking it back. It can take years to recover from infidelity, and reconciliation can be a lifetime work in progress. Most people gravely underestimate the devastation and damage it causes. Especially wayward spouses. Infidelity is very traumatic for a betrayed spouse and remorseful wayward spouses alike. Symptoms that align with PTSD are common. Tho of course moreso for the betrayed.

Don't sweep this under the rug and try to quickly move on from it. That never works. It just festers and can come back up years or even decades later with a vengeance. These pages are filled with rug sweepers who regret not dealing with it 3, 5, 12, or even 20 years ago.

I'm so sorry you've found yourself here. This is a club that no one signs up for, but there are a good group of folks here who understand what you're going through, are willing to listen and offer advice when appropriate. Keep posting here, ask questions, and even vent if you need to. Most of us know what you're dealing with and we're here for it.

One of the hardest things we ever have to deal with is the idea that we cannot control another adult. Her choices were her choices. You cannot change someone, you cannot control them. Every single person who has a sex drive is not going to have the exact same one with who they live with. Life would be wonderful if they were like romance novels, but the truth of the matter is work, depression, hormones, childhood issues, whatever, play into how we feel about ourselves and how much sexual desire we have. What is right for one person is wrong for the next. It might be in your best interest for the two of you to go to a sex therapist to figure out how to get both needs met without anyone feeling shame. That’s the worst feeling in the world and it works on our self-esteem. The next thing is to talk to her as clearly as you can about the fact that she gave a good bit of herself away, not just sexually, but emotionally and that is not what you do when you are married.
The most useless question anybody asks a cheater is what made them do it. The answer is because they wanted to. No one held a gun into their head, they did it because they wanted to. You have to absorb that. You have to absorb that your wife got into a place at work where fun turned into a romantic feeling, which turned into sex. At any time doing that she could have said to herself this does not feel right. I’m not doing this anymore and with just one or two little statements could have turned off any behavior he had.
This man sounds like a predator if he’s always having affairs. He’s charming as all get out but she still has a brain and she knew better. I suggest you get your stuff taken care of and let her get her stuff taken care of and you stop feeling like you caused any of it because you did not.

I'm sorry you have to deal with being betrayed.

I'm going to write about R explicitly, but it carries over to D. Basically, R works only if both partners want to R and are willing to do the work. The corollary is: if your or your WS want to D or do not want to do the work, D is probably a better option.

You'll read various types of posts on SI> Some will tell you what to do. Some will help you figure out your best options. Below is my perspective on R from 15 years out. I hope it helps.

You're probably going to live for several more decades. You may want a quick decision so you can, you hope, get out of the pain ASAP. My reco is: don't try to force a decision. You have time to think and observe and thereby come to an optimal decision. The pain ... you have to work through the pain. Have faith in yourself to heal.

From what you say, your WS may be a good candidate for R, and you love her. But it sounds as if you're still uncertain. Give yourself some time for the uncertainty to come down on one side or another. Remember: part of the uncertainty is due to our inability to know what the future will bring.

¬¬¬Let's go back to basics:

I recommend thinking of R as 3 healings:

1) You heal you. Most BSes are inundated with immense amounts of grief, anger, fear, and/or shame on d-day. The largest part of your work is to process those feelings out of your body. A good IC can help you do this.
2) Your WS heals themself. They need to change from cheater to good partner. I think that requires IC for the WS, but others disagree.
3) Together you build a new M.

This means you can recover from being betrayed without your WS; that is, you can survive this crisis and thrive without your WS, but you need your WS to R(econcile). You can heal yourself because you control yourself. You don't control your WS. I recommend making survive and thrive your primary goal and R your stretch goal.

Have you read the Healing Library here? If not, there's a lot of good stuff there. Click the link in the yellow box in the upper left of the SI pages.

I think there are a number of keys ingredients to the decision to R.

First, what do you want? Do you really want R? If not, don't lie to yourself. R is hard work, and wanting it makes it less difficult, but both D and R are moral responses to being betrayed.

If you want R, I recommend figuring out your requirements for R and seeing if your W will sign on. If they won't, perhaps they can come up with something else that will meet your requirements, but if you can't negotiate something truly acceptable to both of you, great - you can go directly to D. Otherwise, you can monitor them for 3-6 months and commit to
R for yourself if they are (is?) consistent in meeting your requirements.

The requirements need to be observable and measurable. That way it's easy to monitor progress and make adjustments as you go along.

Common requirements include:

NC - no contact with ap; if ap initiates contact, report to BS and together decide how to respond

Transparency - BS has passwords to e-mail, voice-mail, phones, etc.; WS keeps BS informed of whereabouts, activities, and companions at virtually all times

Honesty - WS answers BS's questions when they're asked, although sometimes a break is necessary, sometimes an answer is best deferred to MC session, etc., no more lies.

IC for WS - to change the thoughts and feelings that supported the A, with signed release that enables C to talk with BS about WS's goals and progress (so the BS can make sure WS's IC isn't being lied to).

IC for BS - for support - and for resolving any internal issue that comes up

MC - to help communications between the partners, if one or both partners want MC

Some (Most?) people have individual requirements - my W had to arrange dates for us on a weekly basis and must initiate sex sometimes. What do you want from your W?

And R is a joint endeavor - if one of you hides objections to the other's requirements, you sabotage R. And you have to see your WS as a human being of worth equal to your own to make R work. You don't have to see your WS as a human being equal to you to recover, but you sure can't R, except with an equal.

R is very rewarding when both partners want it an do the work. It seems to be hell on earth, though, unless both do that work. Being betrayed is bad enough - spare yourself the pain unless you want the reward and have a partner who will join you in the process.

Guys,

I am so grateful for the kind words. You guys are spectacular in your depth of support. I'm dying here every single moment of the day. The tears have come hot and heavy. I'll add some more details about the situation. I pretty important one about the married, already having another affair, person she was involved with is, that...it was her boss. Now, my eyes are WIDE open now, truly, but if I'm honest, I'll acknowledge that there is a SLIGHT bit of predatory/victim construct in this matter. The boss preyed on my spouse, who to be honest, is a pretty innocent, naive woman. It doesn't change the actions and decisions she made, I get that, but...there is a slight shading to the ordeal, no? There are even laws to protect against these situations. Any thoughts?

The boss preyed on my spouse, who to be honest, is a pretty innocent, naive woman. It doesn't change the actions and decisions she made, I get that, but...there is a slight shading to the ordeal, no? There are even laws to protect against these situations. Any thoughts?

I am sorry it is a painful moment.

You will go through those phases of grief, there will be a moment where you will try to put the blame on the Other Man and there will be a moment where you will put all on you.

One thing everyone can tell you:

No matter what, is not your fault, you did not make that choice, she did.

The OP is predatory? Yes most often than not is true.
Still it is the WS who decided to go all in with the OP.

It's a choice, no matter how predatory, an affair, a betrayal, is a choice between 2 people.
You will realize someday, it's important

Most of us want to view our significant others as a victim or not entirely responsible for what happened. While there may have been a power imbalance and her boss might have used predatory tactics she still had to be a willing participant unless it was flat out sexual assault. If it was SA, then he should definitely be reported immediately.

That said, a call to the HR department might be in order anyway, along with a call to OBS (other betrayed spouse - his wife). Most companies have policies about management getting involved with employees, and it sounds like this guy likes to use his position and treat the workplace as his own personal playground. Exposure is the best disinfectant. Also, not only does OBS deserve to know, the number 1 reason, it might also help put a stop to any future interactions. When a married affair partner gets found out they'll usually drop the affair and do whatever it takes to save their own skin, or at least try to mitigate the damage. Plus she deserves to have her agency back. I'm sure you would want someone to tell you if they knew, right?

Whether that call to HR is made or not, if you have any thoughts of reconciling, your wife is almost certainly going to have to transfer out or leave that job. Generally speaking, any contact with the AP (affair partner) after discovery almost always inevitably leads to repeat occurrences. Some say as long as there's still contact, the affair is still ongoing. Not to mention, even if nothing ever happens again are you ever going to be comfortable with her working with him? It will eat at you every single day she's there.

My wife was also very naive and it could be seen as her being taken advantage of, but in reality she knew what she was doing was very wrong and she had many opportunities to put a stop to what was happening before any major lines were crossed. I know it sucks. I know it hurts knowing your wife would be capable of something like this, but she is. It was a hard pill for me to swallow, too. Like I said, my wife was very sweet, innocent, and naive also. She had never been with anyone else before she met me. She was also a very willing participant in an affair too, tho, and that's just a fact.

This guy’s a player. He’s been around. You both need a full suite of STD checks NOW. I don’t care how much your wife swears they used protection. You’d be insane to take her at her word with that. ESPECIALLY that.

Have you asked her if she’d be willing to open a lawsuit against the company for sexual harassment since it was her boss? I’m not even saying she must go through with it. It’d be interesting to see what her reaction to that question is. Does she in any way defend him? Does she downplay the adultery in any way?

Sadguy78....Oh no, don't do this. You're White Knighting her - that's what it's called. Poor little innocent miss being preyed on by big bad male boss. That is bullshit. I'm a woman who was preyed by at least 3 bosses (in different jobs) and I'm sure there could have been more if I'd been more .....agreeable. I said no, and kept saying no, and reported at least one for harassment and he ended up minus a job. That's what you do when you're NOT interested. But a lot of women, and I have seen this personally, LIKE THE BOSS. They like male attention, period, and from what you told me of your wife, she's not fussy - she'll screw around with someone who's already screwing around. A lot of it is about wanting power to....it's not just about getting admiration or compliments, it's can also be about acquiring a level of power because being involved with the boss can get you preferential treatment, higher pay, promotions, more vacation time - I HAVE SEEN THIS SEVERAL TIMES. Your wife may like the idea of a powerful man, maybe she views him like that and she doesn't view YOU like that, you're probably far too nice to her, or she is kind of a gold digger (I'm gonna be honest here, I don't like boss effers), who has her eye on the main chance. Maybe he has money and she thought she could hook him and be Mrs. Boss the 2nd. Or he could help her get a better job elsewhere. But my suspicion is she has her eye on the main chance she thinks you can't give her. She wants STUFF.

I could be wrong, but I've seen this many times in different places and I don't think I'm wrong. I think you're wrong for putting yourself down and taking any blame for this and not seeing your wife clearly. You don't see her clearly. What are you so madly in love with her? Why do you love her? What is there in her to love? I'm not being rhetorical, I think you should make a list and re-consider this because baby, she doesn't love you. This isn't how a woman in love behaves, this is how a woman on the MAKE behaves. She will keep you as Plan B in case she can't land Plan A or what she can get from him, but I think your wife is a transactional person, she views relationships for what she can get from them, and I think she's decided that she's maxed out on you and she can get more elsewhere. Even if she stops this relationship with The Boss....she'll do this elsewhere because she wants more than she thinks you can give her. There is no answer to this, there is no solution to this. This is a question of morals and VALUES. She VALUES things you can't give her.

This is how I see this and I would advise you not to reconcile, I usually advise not to reconcile because....it doesn't work most of the time. It's usually just the cheater (and YES, I DO use judgmental language because this SHOULD be judged) pretending to care to maintain the statuss quo until another opportunity comes up and the betrayed spouse just wanting things to go back to old normal and they can't because....now you know. You've seen what she's really like, and this IS what she's really like NOW. Maybe she wasn't always this way or at least it never had the opportunity to be expressed before, now she's had the opportunity and this is the kind of person you see - someone who is willing to screw someone who is already screwing employees. I understand not wanting to break up the family but you really have to stop being naive about what you wife is really like. You've SEEN this now, don't misinterpret it. It's not the BOSS...it's HER. SHE wanted this.

Rethink why you love this person and start working your way out of that....she's not worth it to me. You may want to stay married but do it for practical reasons, not because you're "so in love" you can't leave. You're not viewing her or the situation realistically. And stop blaming yourself. THIS IS WHAT SHE WANTED TO DO AND SHE DID IT AND SHE'LL PROBABLY DO IT AGAIN BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT SHE WANTS TO DO. And this is not your fault at all, so stop blaming yourself, stop second guessing yourself, stop listening to her because this is only going to be her manipulating you and making you feel bad so she has the edge over you. It's about DOMINANCE....don't let her be dominant over you. I think you should start preparing for divorce if you aren't already. At least talk to a lawyer and see what it looks like because I don't think things are going to get any better for your marriage. She wants things she doesn't think you can give her, she'll lie to you and blame you when she gets caught, you'll always be looking and eventually....she'll probably find someone else. They usually do.

I'm sorry, but...I want you to look at this realistically and stop with the love bullshit. You shouldn't be madly in love with someone who treats you like this. You need to build your self respect. You deserve much better than this. And stop making excuses for her. SHE WANTED THIS.

Oh, I keep forgetting to mention this in general but I've seen people in various posts say "but she's swore on our children's heads she didn't cheat"......pulease. They'll swear on anything from Christ's tombstone to the Constitution to yes, the kids' heads, whatever....because a LIAR LIES. This is a very common thing they do...but I swear on little Jodie's head I'd never cheat on you! Baloney. That doesn't mean anything either. There is nothing on earth or in heaven that a liar can swear by - either you tell the truth in which case you don't need to swear....or you lie and you can swear by anything that exists and...it's still a lie.

Appreciate the insights. It's hard for all the info to come out in the posts. I recognize the betrayal for what it is. I don't think she is innocent. But it's not a golddigger thing as I make significantly more than the boss and am more senior. I'm more interested in what drove the decision when like I said I'm so much better than the other guy, only thing is, he's different. I'm thinking of staying pat for a few weeks and see what steps she's willing to take. She is speaking about putting it ALL on the table. Really ready to do ANYTHING. I know, I know, but it is a positive step based on what I've been reading on here.

Please contact other Betrayed spouse. Report boss to the company (assuming he is not the owner). Reality needs to be exposed.

Well...
For one, she can’t work near him or with him anymore.
Your next steps are dependent on his position. Is he the owner? The top-manager? Does he answer to someone above him?
You mention he was caught having an affair at work – rather than an affair.
Was he caught by HIS bosses? Were there consequences?

What I’m getting at is how to respond. If he’s the boss – the owner and all that – then your wife leaves that job NOW.
If he’s a manager and is accountable... It’s time to talk to HR. Especially if he has a track-record. Chances are your wife leaves the job anyways – but there is the chance that the company offers her a golden-parachute to avoid sexual harassment charges.

Sadguy78....Oh no, don't do this. You're White Knighting her - that's what it's called. Poor little innocent miss being preyed on by big bad male boss. That is bullshit. I'm a woman who was preyed by at least 3 bosses (in different jobs) and I'm sure there could have been more if I'd been more .....agreeable.

Absolutely true.

Women are not "prayed upon" they decide to sleep with the guy.
Men are not "slipping" they decide to sleep with the girl.

Rest is excuses to safe their self image from doing something they know is wrong and shameful.

What a person who did not do anything shameful say?
"Yes, I did and it was great!"

They own it.

They make excuse --> lying to you. = add insult to injury.

Jane is absolutely right.

He is a lower level manager in a giant company. I'm middle management. She has, though through prodded questioning, shared what I believe to be 95% of the details. My primary hangup is the length of the affair (about 6 months). I think the physical component occurred a handful of times. But the level of hiding, lies, and betrayal have got me paralyzed. I'm a shell of a human. My question for the forum is, for those that have seen progress or success in R, what does that look like? Also,b what are some hard lines or red flags to look out for in the process leading up to a R. Divorce is very much still a possibility.

Sadguy, again so very sorry. Please take this one piece of advice, find a true Betrayal Trauma Therapist and make an appointment for yourself first. You can find many of them on-line and can have virtual appointments. It works well, I see my Betrayal Specialist virtually.

Others will tell you to talk to lawyer immediately also, just to learn your options, and have a contact made. Does not mean you have to do anything with it.

I again really suggest informing the other Betrayed spouse and the company. This man MUST be brought into the light. Please protect some other unsuspecting husband by blowing him in.

Mandatory:

1. Report this predator to HR.
2. Tell his wife.
3. Be kind to yourself. Do things for you.

Strongly suggested:

Have a separation for 60-90 days. Time like this allows both of you to get your heads a bit clearer as to what the next steps will look like.

Sorry to hear about your story. My Dday was a month ago and it was the longest month I’ve had since I was married. Cried a lot but I am to some extent glad that my husband moved out. He was selfish to put his desires first and for too long I had been putting his demands first and kept giving everything I could to make him happy. Now I get to put myself first and I want the old happy go lucky girl back. I couldn’t remember the last time I was really happy. Now I have a chance.
I hope you see this an opportunity too to rebalance your relationship and stop worrying about her and be the super dude. You need to relax and enjoy being yourself.
I think many woman had been preyed upon by their superior. First time it happened to me was when I was 19 and first year in my PhD program. I left that program and went to a new school to start again. Then came this shiny star who was a national academy of medicine member and dean, who told me to meet him at his office on weekend and I showed up with my fiancé. He was in a bathrobe. He was the embarrassed one and I left with my fiancé. I told other guys in my group but nobody believed me. It hurts. My fiancé saw with his own eyes and he believed me. The dean tried a few times more but I never went to see him in his office without being accompanied by another guy and he backed down. I was willing to leave again but by telling people around me I managed to graduate without having to surrender under his pressure. A woman has a choice, and unless she also wants something out of it she always has the option to leave the situation and by telling her partner she usually would get support for that decision. If it happened against her will, you should call the police.
Hope you can find some peace after this initial shock and confusion.