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Too much pain and sorrow

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MidnightRun posted 9/4/2017 21:08 PM

Smile on.

She thinks you should be falling to pieces over the thought of losing her.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 9:13 PM, September 4th (Monday)]

DeWittle posted 9/4/2017 21:16 PM

I never did, because I didn't want him telling me that your wife wanted it!
Smart move, he probably would have done exactly that, or worse. Never-EVER contact POSOM.

goalong posted 9/4/2017 21:46 PM

As you observed WS's hollow self confidence and pride go up because of the attention of the AP. But WS need the care and love of the BS to enjoy cheating. In 180 when WS loses it from BS, she cannot enjoy AP as she used to be , hence her anger/frustration. Also in AP's eye the allure for WS suffers as WS is no longer a hard to get person. Many times cheating also ends when a marriages ends.

[This message edited by goalong at 9:51 PM, September 4th (Monday)]

Stevesn posted 9/4/2017 22:33 PM

What is the next step in the D proceedings after the birthday party?

Stay strong.

osk123 posted 9/5/2017 02:46 AM

Just do it with a lawyer although, you want to do it "amicable" there will be nothing "amicable" with a person that is in an irrational state. You are her security and lover boy doesn't provide any income. You said your SIL got divorce twice (expert on her side), her family will give her advices as to not accept your "amicable" terms. And just in case always have a VAR around you.

arbuom posted 9/5/2017 03:48 AM

Really appreciate the support, brother!


Smart move, he probably would have done exactly that, or worse. Never-EVER contact POSOM.

I've always had to keep reminding myself that if it wasn't this guy, it would someone else. POSOM is not the problem, WW is.

Thanks for the insight! I appreciate all the support you have given me.

I'm gonna be shifty in answering your question for fear that she's reading here. But lets just say that it's happening.


there will be nothing "amicable" with a person that is in an irrational state

That's my biggest worry right now I really just want to get on with my life. I've suffered enough. I have no intention of tyring to screw WW in this process, I want to be more than fair, she gets everything the law says she does (which means she won't have to worry about making ends meet for many many years). I have nothing to hide. I've always been an open book in our marriage.

[This message edited by arbuom at 3:50 AM, September 5th (Tuesday)]

Sharkman posted 9/5/2017 04:24 AM

One ofher thought about telling her rather than having her served. If for some reason after the conversation you change your mind, here are the items which are usually 100% required. You can add other things of course, but these are the universals:

- 100% unconditional No Contact
- Full written timeline of the affair
- Full 100% electronic access to all devices. No apps installed that can't be tracked (we can get you a list)
- Polygraph
- IC for her. Later after she's deemed safe, MC

You would also need to do a few other OpSec things, such as VARs and GPS.

Again, it sounds like full D but in the event things change I wanted to make sure you did so on your terms

arbuom posted 9/5/2017 04:41 AM


Thanks brother, I appreciate that!

The way I see it right now, there is a 0.0000001% chance that WW will wake up and want back in. And if that somehow happens, I think the chance of me wanting her back at that point is probably a similar one. So it's safe to say that it ain't happening!

One thing that has occurred to me when reflecting back. I can probably get over what happened, but every time I try to get over the trust issue, I start going in a tail spin. Especially when it comes to WW. Like I said before, I believed fully, and without a doubt, that WW would be the last woman on the planet to behave this way, and she proved me wrong. I will need a lot of IC to help me trust again.

And finally, while I agree in principal with the conditions that you list, I would never want to live a life like that...

[This message edited by arbuom at 4:43 AM, September 5th (Tuesday)]

Chappie posted 9/5/2017 08:38 AM

Keep doing the 180! Keep reading the list every day. The most effective parts are the ones that seem trivial. Attention to detail.

Loving hugs to cold fish.
Absolutely normal. She's on a roller coaster too. Her statements for the foreseeable future are meaningless. I will be shocked if she doesn't have a breakdown in the near future. Next could even be love bombing. When a person comes down off the high of the fog, the reality for most is to not even have any idea how or why they did what they did. Its truly amazing. Your wife has yet to do the real calculations to see what her future is going to look like. Do not pay attention to the day to day words and actions. She is probably just pretending anger. Why would she care if you are doing a 180 if she is so out of love and has a new boy toy. My guess is neither one of them has a clue a out how to move on with out their spouse. Fun and games are over.

Sharkman posted 9/5/2017 08:53 AM


Go read DarkHoleHearts thread. Your resolve will be tested soon enough.

You're a successful guy, planning a defense plan against an eventuality that doesn't happen isn't wasted time. We've seen time and time again here that things change on a dime. While you have resolve here it's our job to look at your issue holistically and present you options which, right now, are out of reach to you due to your emotional involvement. Completely understandable

DarkHoleHeart posted 9/5/2017 09:42 AM

Yes, what Sharkman said.

It looked like I was prepared for everything - custody battles, DV accusations, etc.
But I was not prepared for her to suddenly become remorseful.
When I handed her divorce papers, she was in shock. I told her that I don't want to "choke" her anymore, that she is free to go and do with her life whatever she likes, and that I'm handing her fast and cheap ticket out of marriage. Papers had custody going to me. I set deadline to sign the papers. After that I will be going to court to get divorce on the grounds of infidelity and will start demolishing her world.
She was in shock. Refused to sign anything. Denied everything with AP3 until I played her several seconds of recording, where AP3 tells her to put on condom on his dick and she refuses because she doesn't know how (true). Threatened to fight for custody. Blamed that I want to drag children into this terrible mess, etc.
Several days later she started negotiating divorce terms - 50/50 custody, living arrangements.
Several days later she begged me to give her one more chance. Played "for the kids" card heavily.
After some time of her consistently showing with her actions that she is serious about that, my resolve to D right now wavered so I'm kind of giving her one more chance. I know that I'm stupid.

Note that our situations differ. My WW was not in the magical affair fog. She had no desire to ride on a magical unicorn into the sunset with her AP. She was miserable, confused about herself, etc. So maybe it was easier for her to suddenly realize what she was destroying.
But be prepared for that 0.0000001%.
Some here say that you should have list of thing that are non-negotiable if WS wants to commit to R (NC, IC, etc). But I say - let your WS figure this list out for themselves and present it for you.

Good luck on whatever path you take.

arbuom posted 9/5/2017 11:03 AM

Chappie, Sharkman

I can't begin to describe how much your words help me! I had so much noise in my head this morning, and when I read your posts, it all suddenly went silent! Thank you! I almost want you guys to write me a daily reply to help me stay focused, to help me keep my eye on the eight ball, and not let these silly distractions fuck with my mind.

My resolve is unwavering at this time, but I must admit that I'm not thinking clearly. My strength is all over the place. And I haven't even begun to think about how painful it will be to start from scratch again. The thought makes me extremely sad, I never imagined this would be me. I thought, just like my parents (and hers for that matter), I will live to celebrate 50 years with my wife.

arbuom posted 9/5/2017 11:20 AM


Thank you so much for this, I'm really feeling the love today.

...until I played her several seconds of recording, where AP3 tells her to put...

I can see how something like this might make someone snap out of it because they've been caught, but I unfortunately don't have anything remotely close to that. My only piece of evidence is a book with a love note, and WW is claiming no responsibility to it, and that it was a total lapse in judgement on the part of the OM. Also, I'm certain that WW (unlike yours), was deep into riding unicorns over rainbows. That's the only explanation to her being completely in love with me, and then suddenly not!

But be prepared for that 0.0000001%

Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely love for that to happen. It would be really nice to at least know that I meant anything to WW, but I doubt it would weaken my resolve. Actually if anything, it might actually strengthen it further. It would give me the self-esteem boost to walk away, because I deserve MUCH better than this!

Some here say that you should have list of thing that are non-negotiable if WS wants to commit to R (NC, IC, etc). But I say - let your WS figure this list out for themselves and present it for you.

Good point! As I said to Sharkman, I don't want a life where I have my wife in jail. Fuck that! But if it comes from her, that might be a good start...

Good luck to you too, brother, and thanks again for checking in.

[This message edited by arbuom at 11:22 AM, September 5th (Tuesday)]

Jduff posted 9/5/2017 11:49 AM

arbuom, I am you 5 years past my Dday. I had a 17yr M and two boys that are 3yrs apart. My XW was initially caught in an EA but never acknowledging it. I suspected it went PA and could not get proof until the OBS contacted me and gave me the evidence. Later the OM in my situation finally admitted it was a PA. My XW still to this day denies an A ever happened, only acknowledging that her talking to the OM about our marital issues were "inappropriate". Anyway, I got the same ILYBINILWY from my XW. When I asked her how far had she known that she stopped loving me, her answer started with 2yrs ago. Then it changed to 5yrs ago, then 10yr, then "I don't think I really loved you since we got married and then finally "I never likd you while we dated." The logic is insane, isn't it? This coming from a woman who I had two children with! However, what my XW and your STBXW is experiencing is cognitive dissonance. It is attempting to compartmentalize two conflicting trains of thought, beliefs, images of themselves, etc. It prevents their ability to understand the difference between lust and love. She said she doesn't love you, but still stays. My XW actually moved into her own apartment and left so her actions backed it a point.

So, from my own experience I'll share some of what I have learned so far -

Yes, arbuom, it is very likely your WW does love you. She is just burying it 6ft deep to quell the dissonance and what it is buried under is a shit ton of her rationalizations of why she THINKS she doesn't love you. You can bet that the OM was right there with her shoveling some of that bullshit into the grave. She will likely try and shack up with that dipshit OM during your separation or after the D is final. She will begin to realize even though you are no longer in the picture she is still unhappy and the OM is all talk and short on delivering. This is where it starts to hit her with that old saying said in so many different ways "You don't know what you had until you lost it". I don't explain this to try and persuade you to consider R. Just that her motivations, like DarkHoleHeart explains, are going to change once her fog wears off so make haste on getting that D going.

Also, mind what MidnightRun stated - "She thinks you should be falling to pieces over the thought of losing her." At first my XW thought she was just the modern day Venus with all the sudden work outs and shopping trips to victoria secrets. When I got that ILYBINILWY speech I was doing the pick me dance, but it was more like "pick me over leaving and being single" I had no idea at the time there was an OM in the picture. Once I figured out there was an OM and a PA occurred then I knew my deal breaker was confirmed and I moved toward D. I 180'd her ass like I won the lottery and was going to go live it up as a single man again. I dropped 60 lbs from my "infidelity diet" as they call it here started working out more and looked better than I was when I was 17. Other women are going to notice you if you have already been noticed. Then your STBXW is going to notice that other women notice as well and may very well begin to hoover you hard back into the M. My XW tried that. I shut it down.

You say you want an equitable D and think she should have her "fair" share of the assets. You should really tell your attorney you want what is best for you and your kids first and foremost. Your WW is going to get her own attorney anyway. Ask about collaborative divorce if you haven't already. Ask a few attorneys about the mediation process. Then, let the attorneys guide you on what is "fair". Yes, it can save time and money. However, if your STBXW's motivation changes as explained above she WILL still attempt to make the process contentious. My XW tried to twist facts and control the mediation when she realized the D was really going to happen.

Be the rock for your kids. Here is the key, be the same dad to them that you have always been but just be the best version of you. It should be easier because all the time time, energy, focus you've spent on your STBXW can now be diverted to your kids and they are going to need every bit of it from you during the D process. Your STBXW is going to be the loopy one and you want her demonstrating that behavior in person, in texts, in emails, voicemail, letters all delivered to your attorney the moment she unhinges. This can be leverage even in mediation when discussing custody. You will want YOUR place to be home to the kids, their safe place. Hopefully, your STBXW gets her shit together to realize she needs to pull the same effort as you for the sake of your kids and the best part is you are already going to be setting an example of how. Go talk to the kid's teachers and explain the situation so they can be prepared and accommodating when your kids are having trouble concentrating at school. Get ahead of the process and research some IC for them as well that specialize with children in divorce situations. When talking to them, let the be angry at you if they are about the D. You want to be that parent they feel safe showing their emotions, good or bad. You will very likely strengthen your bond with them through this process.

Don't be afraid to ask for help. Reach out to your family and friends. Start working out some logistics with getting kids to school and their activities, where they can stay until you can pick them up from work, setting time for them to hang out with their friends, etc. Don't try to shoulder the entire single dad effort. Take advantage of whatever assistance you can get.

Do take care of yourself. You are right, arbuom, you didn't deserve any of this. No one does. If D is your way to make it right for yourself then that's what it takes to get you on the path of healing. Besides, you can always change your mind anyway. D can be stopped any time. Just know that marriage is but a contract and that its dissolve doesn't mean permanent banishment from your STBXW. That fact you two have kids together pretty much ensures you two will remain in contact until the kids are legal adults so there is time to observer her from afar and see how things turn out. People here have gotten back together after D and even remarried.

Don't fear the dating scene. The problem won't be if any woman will want to date a single dad. The issue will be figuring out which ones are normal from the crazy and desperate. The most shocking revelation from my own D is realizing that being a single employed father who has his own place was GOLDEN. Now, there is no rush to date. Shoot, you don't have to date at all but do consider pushing yourself to be social and participate in events in groups or with friends. Try not to be a hermit. Your kids want to see their dad be happy again. It is for their well being also to see you pushing yourself forward and being happy again. They learn by example.

The sooner you step towards better days is how soon they will come. So don't think of this as "Starting over again" Instead, think of this as starting anew for a different life adventure for you and your kids. Yes, it wasn't what you always thought it would be but neither did a lot of us that moved forward to D and started their new beginnings. But, how that turns out is very much dependent on you and the way you want to look at the future, either with dread or full of hope.

bardo posted 9/5/2017 14:35 PM

BS only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:30 PM, October 3rd (Tuesday)]

Sharkman posted 9/5/2017 14:39 PM

Good point! As I said to Sharkman, I don't want a life where I have my wife in jail. Fuck that! But if it comes from her, that might be a good start...

As resident MVP Spaceghost put it, "I deserve better than begging the woman that I married not to fuck anyone else"

TimelessLoss posted 9/5/2017 14:49 PM

First rate post of the day from JDuff.

Stevesn posted 9/5/2017 15:37 PM

JDuff! <<APPLAUSE>> !!!!

Jduff posted 9/5/2017 16:03 PM

How the hell do you even ask a girl out nowadays???

I didn't really have to. They approached me. All I had to do was be myself once the ice was broken. So, the challenge is to break that ice, right? Well, the two things that I concentrated on being in my effort to find myself and make that guy better was doing things that made me happy and working on being more confident. Those two things are like magnets to strangers. It gets people curious as to why the hell you are that happy and confident, like "This guy has his shit together. What's he all about?" And they tend to make their way to you and start conversation. You become "approachable" and the ice is broken.

Take chances to practice the social skills as well and meet every opportunity with no expectations. Go to meetups, join a local softball team, go to a book club meeting, whatever, just get yourself out there and go with the flow. Get uncomfortable and see what you can handle. When I did want to talk to a woman I took note of what was taking her attention at the moment, observed it myself, then walked up to share my observation then introduced myself. You'll know in just a few second if she is open for conversation or not.

BTW, I was 43 when my world blew up. Since I started dating after separation no woman I met thought I was to old. My new wife is 10yrs younger than me. When we dated she asked if was ok with dating a woman much younger than me!

bardo posted 9/5/2017 16:26 PM

BS only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:31 PM, October 3rd (Tuesday)]

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