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Betrayed Womenz Thread

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cocoplus5nuts posted 6/15/2019 13:25 PM

Oh, I know he knows what he's doing. I call him out on it all the time. Believe it or not, he has gotten a lot better since dday. His A was the biggest passive aggressive FU to me he could do.

The resentment thing is why I've been saying what I have recently. He has a habit of not talking about things that bother, saying everything is fine, and building up secret resentments.

I hope to get h I'll m to really think about whether or not he's happy. If he isn't, he needs to do something about that. Maybe we should D. I don't want to live with a mean, old grump.

silverhopes posted 6/17/2019 01:23 AM

Love you, ladies. Hope you’re all doing OK.

earlydetour posted 6/17/2019 11:40 AM

Read an analogy on another thread about feeling like your in a maze, coming up against new issues all the time and needing to backtrack to find your way around. It resonated with me today. Lots of life with fwh to look over again with my enlightened perspective of his mindset. I'm fairly certain that if I knew then what I know now, I would have gone thru with ending our M at the time. I was D.O.N.E. and gave back my rings.

Thinking back, fwh did have my back at times in the past, but not dependably as a life partner should. He expected it from me, but he had trouble reciprocating. Now, he appears to have changed his perspective towards me and M and his attitude & actions are like night and day. I'm waiting and watching. Labelled her "insight" and "advice" as manipulative BS. fwh feels he was used and gullible and naive.

Why didn't MC address this? MC was looking for reasons within the M for the "breakdown" of the relationship. fwh was never really all-in. I was trusting that fwh knew what he wanted in life and that he was being emotionally honest with me that he was sure about committing to me and was fully willingly doing it. While dating, I never "tested" him and life didn't throw any tests at him, to see how committed to me he really felt. For fwh, M quickly became a commitment to taking care of finances, the cars, the house - practical things - and steering clear of commitment to having a healthy intellectual and emotional relationship, with respect, admiration, fondness, interest in me.

His A was the biggest passive aggressive FU to me he could do.
fwh is conflict avoidant and was being pushed by MIL to "find a gal who would make a good wife", like BIL - to mimic him for approval (SIL & I even share the same, uncommon first name!). I realize now that our relationship wasn't based on fwh believing he wanted to be in my life and M was making it official. Instead, it was socially/family acceptable way to finally get piv (it was drilled into him by FOO that any piv regardless of the type of bc used would result in pregnancy) and to get out of the house and away from his mother and sisters. He transferred his attitudes towards them and redirected them towards me after M, when we started living together.

The A was a big FU to all the female relatives he felt were controlling his life. That wasn't how he appeared to be during dating. He seemed genuinely happy to be in a relationship with me and was looking forward to continuing the same after W. fwh was depressed b/c of FIL's serious health issues just b4 W and mow (a new work assignment with his flirty friend 40+hrs/wk for 2mos) was his confirmation and negativity bias that his M and wife would be just like parents & mother (fwh saw and heard how MIL was talking about FIL and their M during this crisis). Now, fwh realizes the A was letting another female have control over him by letting her influence him and his decisions He tanked his own life and M. And mow echoed the same dysfunctional M views as MIL - it felt more familiar than my attempt at unconditional love towards him. fwh thought he was being enlightened that my unconditional love was fake and a coverup for my "real" motivations for getting M'd. My life took a drastic early detour.

I'm glad we have this BW only thread. I'm the one that posted last summer asking if there was a female equivalent for the male term emasculation. And this BW thread was the eventual result of that discussion. There is so much social and cultural bias about As that affect our self-image and how others respond to us and our whs. You can't control when or where you'll come across a demoralizing attitude or control people expressing those viewpoints. You can only control your response.

DevastatedDee posted 6/17/2019 17:04 PM

Coco, I don't blame you. Passive aggressiveness is worthy of D all by itself and you don't deserve that crap. It's abusive. Hopefully he'll get it together and do some work on that.

Goodness, earlydetour, I can kinda relate. I halfway think my WH wanted to marry me because I reminded him of his mom. His mom is a very strong independent woman and his dad basically is just there. I think he tried to re-create that dynamic with me. Didn't work out...you don't purposefully marry a strong independent woman and then do nothing to keep her. That's kinda dumb.

HeHadADoubleLife posted 6/17/2019 22:05 PM

I halfway think my WH wanted to marry me because I reminded him of his mom. His mom is a very strong independent woman and his dad basically is just there. I think he tried to re-create that dynamic with me. Didn't work out...you don't purposefully marry a strong independent woman and then do nothing to keep her. That's kinda dumb.

HAHAHAHA. That's not kinda dumb, that is supremely idiotic.

Also funny how with the entitled/disordered/whatever you want to call it, it can really go both ways. They can try to mimic what they know, or they can go for a full-on 180 and over correct.

I've seen people marry the equivalent of their parents, sure. I'm realizing more and more via therapy that I married a version of my dad. But in terms of how my XH "chose" me, I had the opposite experience.

XH viewed his mom as a pushover who was "stupid." He would often talk about how he realized at a young age how much smarter he was than his family, and that if he wanted to get out he was going to have to do it all on his own.

There are a lot of white trash aspects to my in-laws, I'll give him that. But many of those traits that are the most obnoxious carried on through him, and he was proud of them in a way, so I never got the point he was trying to drive home. All in all, they are kind and caring people. I would say less educated, but by no means stupid. I bought into a lot of his bullshit about his family, because, well, I had no reason not to believe what he was saying about them. Why would the person I love lie about his family life to me? What purpose would that serve?

He would talk about how me and my mom were so much better than his mom, how smart and capable and driven we were. For a while he pushed the idea of taking my last name because he said he hated his family so much. Thank god he never did that, he doesn't fucking deserve it.

He would call himself a sapio sexual and made a point of saying "I could never have sex with a dumb girl" on several occasions. He would always say "You're the one person I've never even questioned if they're stupid. Most girls do or say stupid things, but I've never thought that about you." What a fucking compliment, so glad I got your stamp of approval I remember once having a discussion with him about how he needed to watch his excessive drinking of energy drinks and caffeine because he could become perpetually tachycardic. He looked at me and said, "Whoa, I didn't think you would know what that word meant." I looked back and said "Well I'm glad you're finally catching up to the fact that I'm pretty fucking smart."

Now that I know what negging is, I can totally see how he did that a lot. I always called him out on it, but he got off on getting a rise out of me, so he totally manipulated me into playing that game because he knew I wouldn't take shit lying down. Plus it was typically in more low stakes conversations that could be construed as playful and more like "banter," so I didn't see it for what it was.

Now, fwh realizes the A was letting another female have control over him by letting her influence him and his decisions He tanked his own life and M. And mow echoed the same dysfunctional M views as MIL - it felt more familiar than my attempt at unconditional love towards him. fwh thought he was being enlightened that my unconditional love was fake and a coverup for my "real" motivations for getting M'd
Oh man do I feel this. Somehow XH convinced himself that my love for his children, and my desire to have more children with him, meant that I didn't love him, that he wasn't enough. That asking him to rise to the occasion and be a better parent and partner was telling him that I didn't care about him, and me and our daughters were ungrateful bitches who were just using him for money. That his parents were assholes who treated him like shit, and he didn't understand why his daughters were so close with them and loved them so much - that it was unfair that his daughters got to have that kind of relationship with them when his was so terrible. His FOO issues surrounding growing up without a lot of money were popping up everywhere, but nobody could convince him that he wasn't 100% in the right. So he went and chose an OW who is living off of disability, then spent all of his money on her and on alcohol and drugs to drink/do with her. The rationalizations they come up with are crazy-making

It's funny, he admired how I didn't take anybody's shit. It's one of the things he always said he loved about me. Well, that is until he started flinging some real hardcore shit at me, and then at our daughters, and he thought he was going to be the exception to that rule. He was sorely mistaken.

DevastatedDee posted 6/18/2019 06:09 AM

It's funny, he admired how I didn't take anybody's shit. It's one of the things he always said he loved about me. Well, that is until he started flinging some real hardcore shit at me, and then at our daughters, and he thought he was going to be the exception to that rule. He was sorely mistaken.

Yeah...it still blows me away that my WH was surprised that I actually left him. I bought a house without his name on it and moved to another town and still he was like "so we're really done??". That would have been a mighty strange move for me to make if I were trying to keep him, LOL. He prized me for being independent and not needing anyone then could not believe that I was independent and didn't need him to survive. I mean... Sounds like our WHs picked someone who wouldn't take their shit and then were shocked that we wouldn't take their shit.

Chaos posted 6/18/2019 06:39 AM

Sounds like our WHs picked someone who wouldn't take their shit and then were shocked that we wouldn't take their shit

Standing. Slow. Clap.

cocoplus5nuts posted 6/18/2019 08:18 AM

Why didn't MC address this? MC was looking for reasons within the M for the "breakdown" of the relationship.

That's why lots of people here suggest IC before MC.

My fwh said my independence was one of the things he really liked about me. All the women he had dated before just went along with him and never expressed any opinions or anything. It's funny how that became such a big problem for him later.

I can't remember if I told thos here, but I feel like I was completely duped by my fwh. He presented himself to me the way he thought he should be. He acted like a good, caring, thoughtful person so people would like him, not because he actually was those things. All the caring, loving, thoughtful, helpful things he did were for selfish reasons. What he actually was was a passive aggressive, conflict avoidant, people pleaser who built up secret resentments against me for things I didn't even know I did.

He told me the MOW was helping him deal with his M issues. She encouraged him to accept me for this or that. He thought we would all be great friends, even after he fucked her. Once he was exposed, he realized she had more worse issues than I did. She basically did to him what he did to me. Pretended to be what he needed to get what she wanted.

So, he started working on himself. Now, he's trying not to be a conflict avoidant people pleaser. He's trying to express himself more. Now, he's fighting with me! Woah! That's not what I signed up for. LOL

I struggled for a long time wondering if I could stay married to him. I didn't like the person he had become. Not because he was finally expressing himself, bit because the things he was expressing were so contrary to everything I believe. We are polar opposites on so much.

So, we're recovered and reconciled from his cheating, but now have other issues that may end up being dealbreakers, for me anyway. He does not want to divorce at any cost. I asked him the other day if he would've tried to win me back if I divorced him right after dday. He said he would've done everything he could to not get D in the first place.

[This message edited by cocoplus5nuts at 8:22 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)]

DevastatedDee posted 6/18/2019 08:44 AM

I can't remember if I told thos here, but I feel like I was completely duped by my fwh. He presented himself to me the way he thought he should be. He acted like a good, caring, thoughtful person so people would like him, not because he actually was those things. All the caring, loving, thoughtful, helpful things he did were for selfish reasons. What he actually was was a passive aggressive, conflict avoidant, people pleaser who built up secret resentments against me for things I didn't even know I did.

SAME same same same same!

That, and the mirroring crap. I figured out why I liked my WH so much. He took on a lot of my interests, preferences and personality traits. I mean, I like myself, so I guess it stands to reason that I would also like the male version of myself, lol.

HeHadADoubleLife posted 6/18/2019 09:08 AM

Ok, first off

He told me the MOW was helping him deal with his M issues.
This whole the OW was helping me like a good friend or therapist by letting me put my penis inside of her shtick always makes me laugh. Sorry, I know it sucks to hear them say it, but can they hear how ridiculous they sound when they're saying it??

He presented himself to me the way he thought he should be. He acted like a good, caring, thoughtful person so people would like him, not because he actually was those things. All the caring, loving, thoughtful, helpful things he did were for selfish reasons.
Yup. 99% of everything he did for me was to "get" sex, or for the appearance of being a good husband. 99% of everything he did for the girls was because he wanted them to praise him for it, or he thought it made him look like a good dad.

What he actually was was a passive aggressive, conflict avoidant, people pleaser who built up secret resentments against me for things I didn't even know I did.
This shit is maddening. My XH did the same thing. He acted as if he was assertive, but he only had two modes - blow up over the slightest thing, never acknowledging that a calm conversation about what was bothering him would be more effective, OR holding it all in, then throwing it in my face once I brought up something that was bothering me.

I remember one conversation in particular where I brought up something that was bugging me. More than likely a cleanliness thing, as he had a tendency to leave food out etc.
Him: "Well I don't bother you about how you leave clutter all over your desk!! All you ever do is tell me what I do wrong, I don't do that!!"
Me: "Why the hell not?! You should absolutely bring up things that bother you in a respectful way so that we can talk about it and work through it!
Him: "I just don't see the need to tell you what you're doing wrong all the time. I'm not negative like you"
Me: "No, you just feel the need to throw it in my face when you are feeling insecure and defensive. That's not negative at all *eye roll*"

My favorite were the real blow ups that came out of nowhere. We had filed an extension for our taxes, but I was the one who really needed to do all of the work because I have receipts to write off and he doesn't. Well when you file an extension, you have until October, so we had filed it in April, and I hadn't really thought about it, since the whole reason we filed the extension was because I was so swamped with work that I didn't feel like I had the time to get it done properly.

In June he went on a business trip, and during that time I had a week off before I started another job. I had told him before he left that I was going to take that time to relax as much as possible, because I knew I was going into about 2 months of working 7 days a week. All of a sudden one night I get a series of texts from him saying, "You haven't filed the taxes have you? I bet not! Don't do another thing for me and the girls until that is done! If I come home and the taxes aren't done, you're not going to be happy!" Really? You're threatening me now? We had not discussed the taxes AT ALL before he left. I thought we had until October, so I wasn't sweating it. But apparently in his mind it was this pressing thing that needed to be done right now.

I struggled for a long time wondering if I could stay married to him. I didn't like the person he had become. Not because he was finally expressing himself, bit because the things he was expressing were so contrary to everything I believe. We are polar opposites on so much.
So sorry to hear this Coco. I'm sure you feel terrible about it, I know I did. As things about his personality started to come to light, I told myself well, you've committed to this guy, you owe it to him and the girls to try to make it work. But some personality traits just don't work together.

My fwh said my independence was one of the things he really liked about me. All the women he had dated before just went along with him and never expressed any opinions or anything. It's funny how that became such a big problem for him later.

Sounds like our WHs picked someone who wouldn't take their shit and then were shocked that we wouldn't take their shit.
The running theme of my life. Now the trick is figuring out how to pick out the guys who actually like my take-no-shit attitude, and not just the ones who pretend like they do.

DevastatedDee posted 6/18/2019 09:13 AM

Now the trick is figuring out how to pick out the guys who actually like my take-no-shit attitude, and not just the ones who pretend like they do.

Girl, I'm concentrating my love and affection on my dogs for now. I'm pretty sure I can trust them more than any man I would pick.

I have picked some winners, no doubt about it. Geez. I'm bad at picking them and good at leaving them. What a combo.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 9:13 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)]

HeHadADoubleLife posted 6/18/2019 09:27 AM

Hahaha. Yeah, I'm in no way close to thinking about dating. It's only been 7 months since his exit A and in many ways I still feel like I'm reeling from that.

I'm bad at picking them and good at leaving them. What a combo.
Haha, well on the bright side at least you're not bad at picking them, AND bad at leaving them.

I was bad at picking, really good at confronting and calling him out on his bullshit, really bad at actually leaving.

My most intimate relationships right now are with my cats, and my IC. I'll stick to that for now.

Chili posted 6/18/2019 09:32 AM

Girl, I'm concentrating my love and affection on my dogs for now.

My NB puppy was the reason I kept my sanity (and didn't become 100% jaded-love-is-bullshit Chili.)

So just a sidebar question for the ladies who have had to deal with one of those weak-ass jagoffs who were oh so swooning about our independence/strength yada yada but really resented the hell out of it. And so during Dday/blowup/divorce/name your moment, did you get that shit thrown back in your face?

I did big time. I'm sure it was a neat little tool to try and diminish the impact of his shit...or because he lacked empathy (of course)...to perpetuate his eternal victimhood, or to give himself a little of a free pass.

I heard things like:

"You'll be fine. You've always been so strong."
"You have everything. I have nothing."
"Suit yourself. You always did."

Of course I knew deep down in my spirit that I would find a way through this latest shitstorm thrown in my direction. And I probably would be just fine if not better. But that doesn't mean I still wasn't a puking pile of pain balled up on the floor . But surprise surprise my shit never really mattered to him anyway. He never once could look at my pain head on. Instead he slunk away into avoidance land.

I'm sure if he ever gets wind of my life now he pats himself on the back a little for what he did. "See - she's doing great now."

So any of you get the old heave'ho dismissive routine because of what they saw as strength and resilience?

HeHadADoubleLife posted 6/18/2019 09:55 AM

Yup, everything you said Chili.

Funny thing was, he thought he was still entitled to all of my help.

2 days after I caught him in our bed with OW, he texted me asking about if I thought the landlord would let him and the girls stay in our place without me on the lease. I told him "You're an adulterer, and your despicable actions have lost you all rights to my advice. Go ask your mistress for advice, you're her problem now." He was PISSED.

That's when he started throwing the barbs. Anytime I didn't do something he wanted (help him with the phone change over, help him with taxes, whatever) he would say, "This is why I left you. You won't budge on anything, ever." Sounds a lot like "Suit yourself. You always did." I have to admit reading that just now was a little punch to my gut. I'm sorry he said that to you.

They use what you used to think was one of your most admirable qualities as a weapon against you. Because deep down, you know that this is a great quality to have. So if they can make you question that, they can really make you hurt. They want you to question your entire identity, because they question their own, and they know how painful that is. Instead of trying to change and be a better person, it's much easier to make somebody else feel just as shitty as they do.

I'm sure if he ever gets wind of my life now he pats himself on the back a little for what he did. "See - she's doing great now."
Yup. XH will forever play the martyr in this. He tells anyone who will listen that "I just didn't want kids anymore, and I knew she wanted that, so I felt it was best for her to move on." No mention of the fact that for 7 years he led me on to believe that he wanted more children with me too. Also no mention of the naked OW I found in OUR bed with him. Convenient how they always leave those things out.

DevastatedDee posted 6/18/2019 10:44 AM

YES, I got:

"I know you'll be okay. You always are."

"You never needed me like I need you."

"You'll find happiness again one day. You'll find someone else. I'll probably be dead."

Bless his heart.

Hawke posted 6/18/2019 10:51 AM

I can relate to so much on here.

That, and the mirroring crap. I figured out why I liked my WH so much. He took on a lot of my interests, preferences and personality traits. I mean, I like myself, so I guess it stands to reason that I would also like the male version of myself, lol.

My ex was basically a chameleon. He became "me" as much as possible, so for many years I thought everything was fine. Then, he started to change. Now, I realize he was turning into a male version of OW. (OW was polyamorous, and by golly, it turned out my ex was too!) It is taking conflict avoidance and people pleasing to an extreme. I don't think he did it to look good. I think it's a mechanism he learned in a childhood surrounded by alcoholism and neglect. I hope he addresses it someday, but I don't think he even sees it.

I don't know if he had a bunch of secret resentments. He was never able to tell me what was wrong with our relationship or with me, even after d-day. The worst thing he said, which I dragged out of him, was that I didn't praise him enough. I was gobsmacked. I thanked him all the time for things he did, but apparently I was supposed to sing his praises (maybe with a tambourine?).

cocoplus5nuts posted 6/18/2019 11:07 AM

Are our husbands clones?

I have always tried to be an honest, authentic person. It never occurred to me that someone would lie and pretend to be a completely different person in order to get married. I've known plenty of guys who lied to get sex. Marriage was the furthest thing from their minds.

Now, I'm married to someone I would np[l ot have even liked if I had know the real hom. I do love h9m. The question is, why? Do I only live hom because he's the father of (most) of my children and he has always worked hard to provide for us? IDK. That's why I started the thread in general asking what being "in love" means. I would not say that I'm in love with my fch. I don't know that I ever was since he wasn't what he presented himself to be.

cocoplus5nuts posted 6/18/2019 11:11 AM

Bless his heart

🤣

I could go on and on about the resentments my fch had. They are ridiculous, though. Of course, whenever I asked, everything was fine. Even when he went to counseling with me, it was, apparently, for me and my problems. He didn't have any.

Chili posted 6/18/2019 11:14 AM

Funny thing was, he thought he was still entitled to all of my help.

So messed up. I got that too: "There's things going on right now that only you can help with." What the actual. Pardon me for forgetting my real purpose on this earth. Silly me. (A part of me curiously wishes I had listened long enough to find out what was so damn important just so I could make fun of it. But it was much more important to not give a shit at the time). Good on you for giving it back - I said something similar to the "you're not my problem anymore."

I think the martyr thing is strong. If they were the ones who were really shat on, then they had no choice to do what they did. Predictably, they get the historical timelines of cause and effect all jacked up. I bet mine confuses the actions I took to protect myself after the fact with his own precursors. Mine was a foot dragger and avoided me at every turn as I tried to get out of the legal ties. In the end, he received a major shellacking - but that was a natural consequence. Took me while to quit worrying how his family/friends/everyone might have perceived that piece of it without knowing anything close to the whole story.

Bless his heart.

Love it D. Poor schmumpkins.

I ramble today...be good ye womenz friends.

Chili posted 6/18/2019 11:26 AM

apparently I was supposed to sing his praises (maybe with a tambourine?).

Geez Louise Hawke - get with the program. Don't you know you're supposed to do an interpretive dance that lovingly tells the story of all his accomplishments (like putting the dishes in the dishwasher)? You might could use a tambourine in selected parts to emphasize the ode. But don't limit yourself and overlook the praise art of gymnastics (standing on head and back bending are good) all while singing sweetly in the voice of an angel.

Frequency and repetition are important too.

You'll get there!

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