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Betrayed Womenz Thread

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cocoplus5nuts posted 7/30/2019 19:27 PM

Yes, everything about the entire relationship with my fch was changed. I suddenly realized the entire thing had been a lie. My fch had been pretending the whole time.

Now, I'm left wondering if I want to spend the rest of my life with this new person. If he had been honest about who he while we were dating, I probably would've walked away. But, here I am 20+ years later with 3 more kids and not working outside the home. What am I going to do?

HeHadADoubleLife posted 7/31/2019 01:13 AM

Standing ovation gmc!

I think a big part of the problem for me is that I dealt with all of the other dysfunction in our marriage for YEARS, DECADES, by clinging to the consolation prize of, "Yes, I know he's difficult, but he obviously loves me, and besides/because, he is/has been faithful."

This particular aspect of the A was/is really hard on me. The idea that I valued fidelity so much that I was willing to put up with all of the crazy dysfunction for so many years just because he was seemingly refraining from putting his penis in someone else's vagina.

And I don't say that to invalidate any act of infidelity. EA, PA, oral, vaginal, anal, "just kissing," escorts, massage parlors, and any other manner of infidelities I'm forgetting - it's all traumatic AF, we all know that and have lived it.

But it's simply to say that fidelity should be a given. It is not something we trade our dignity for.

Tallgirl posted 7/31/2019 06:18 AM

Marriageredux,

About stuck – how can anyone not be stuck after going through this. When infidelity comes, life as you knew it halts. Your very self-definition is lost, you look at your husband and ask “who are you”, “why don’t I know you”, “why do I mean so little to you”, “why”, “how could you be in love with another woman while married” (and in my case, a prostitute to boot) and the lying, oh the lying. I cannot fathom the capability that my WH had to generate the sheer volumes of lies (literally thousands upon thousands of lies). Oh, and the scariest question I ask myself is, “what did I contribute to getting us here”.

I am now trying to own my stuck – we all have our own version of it. Infidelity introduced me to the man I am now married to. Infidelity changed me. I am broken, yet in some small ways stronger. My stuck is my assessment of myself, who I can be, who do I want to be, do I still love him or is this attachment history and hopium. In some ways, it doesn’t have much to do with my WH(y). In other ways, it has everything to do with him. I am drawn and repulsed by him at the same time.

You are also in the process of rediscovering you, part of that process is changing to who you will be. If changing your physical appearance moves you forward, feels right, is what you want, good for you. AWESOME in fact.

My husband is working hard too. Results? The right results? Not sure… but then I’ve been fed so many lies over the years, who knows. I doubt he even is aware of all his lies.

Back again soon. HAVE A GREAT DAY all.

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 9:08 AM, July 31st (Wednesday)]

DevastatedDee posted 7/31/2019 08:02 AM

Yes, everything about the entire relationship with my fch was changed. I suddenly realized the entire thing had been a lie. My fch had been pretending the whole time.
Now, I'm left wondering if I want to spend the rest of my life with this new person. If he had been honest about who he while we were dating, I probably would've walked away. But, here I am 20+ years later with 3 more kids and not working outside the home. What am I going to do?

I think my WH was trying to become or at least appear like the person he wished he was and wanted to be, felt that he should be. He was never honest about who he truly was either until after DDay. It's hard to come to terms with because it invalidates everything that made you love them in the first place.

Tallgirl posted 7/31/2019 09:12 AM

One of the first things that wowed me about my husband was his ass (true story). Really was impressive. (yes this is base, but I'm going to a funny).

Now it is absolutely how I characterize him, he's an ass, an asshole, an asshat, sucks ass, and a cheating jack ass.

So I guess things come around....

Cheeky huh?

Chaos posted 7/31/2019 10:00 AM

Tallgirl you made me choke on my coffee with that!

Especially the "cheeky" pun.

gmc94 posted 7/31/2019 11:13 AM

He was never honest about who he truly was either until after DDay. It's hard to come to terms with because it invalidates everything that made you love them in the first place.
Bingo! Even though 18+ months out from dday my WH has still not become honest about who he "truly" is, so much of him has been consumed by the "nice guy" image, he simply cannot face it.

I've thought about this in terms of the compromises made during the M that are wiped out on dday bc they were based upon lies. Early on this was a big topic of disputes - he simply could not understand how everything he'd contributed to the M (or to me, by way of "support" was basically obliterated by the A - or by the lies - or by the pain. At that point, I felt/said that the price was too high - I'd have never "bought into" those things if I knew the cost on the back end. But seeing this I realize that it may not be "only" those compromises, but the things that made me "love" him to begin with.

There's a line in some infidelity song where the gist is the BW is wondering why the AP, and then realizes - why YOU? Why the WH? Someone on SI once said (and I apologize for not remembering who) - what, exactly, do YOU bring to my party?

marriageredux959 posted 7/31/2019 14:02 PM

Yes, everything about the entire relationship with my fch was changed. I suddenly realized the entire thing had been a lie. My fch had been pretending the whole time.
Now, I'm left wondering if I want to spend the rest of my life with this new person. If he had been honest about who he while we were dating, I probably would've walked away. But, here I am 20+ years later with 3 more kids and not working outside the home. What am I going to do?

^^ This.

This is but one of the gifts that infidelity keeps on giving.

Well, whenever someone shows you who they are, believe them. Also believe that you cannot change them- only they can change themselves, and only if they genuinely want to change.

What you *can* change is yourself.

You can also change your life, your infrastructure, your marriage status, your living arrangements, but you don't have to do that. The two of you, the two flawed, imperfect people in your marriage, can decide together to support the infrastructure as it is, and to continue to reside within it. It has benefits for you both, and for the persons for whom you both care, i.e. your children. So keep the infrastructure, keep the marriage, keep the house, keep the finances intact, and to avoid further damage, keep your hands literally and figuratively off of other people.

And then, Ms. Coco, set about changing your life to suit you, to a life that makes living with your current compromises more palatable. :)

How can you rearrange your life and reinvent yourself to bring you even more joy and sense of fulfillment, separately from your husband and your marriage? How can you enrich your own life experience, separately from living in compromise and in living a life of service as a wife and as a mother?

Boundary setting was and is important to me; it needed to be addressed both within my marriage (no more kissing the world's ass with my lips to make life easier for Husband) and outside of my marriage ('the world' got really, really comfortable with me puckering up on demand- oh the horror! the carnage! the virtual blood bath when I stopped being a door mat! the tantrums alone have been priceless )

But beyond that, I needed other input: I needed to exercise skill sets, I needed to remind myself and to experience being competent at many and diverse things, I needed friends, I needed challenges and growth opportunities, I needed more variety in my daily venues, I needed inspiration, I needed things and events and people to look forward to. :) So I worked on that, and I'm continuing to work on that.

It's not like I had no life before finding out about this thing that happened years ago- but the more I consider it, the more I do believe that we had grown quietly and actually 'successfully' codependent. It worked so well for us and we got such an ROI that neither of us questioned the status quo. DDay delivered, as several of you have pointed out on this thread, a whole new understanding of Husband and our marriage. I think that it was so threatening and devastating to me precisely because we were so enmeshed, and because I had put up with/participated in so many dysfunctional coping mechanisms, under the guise of "Yeah but he's faithful..." =/

None of this new enrichment stuff makes what Husband did go away- nor should it- but it puts him *and* that stupid thing he did once upon a time in a much larger context, thus effectively shrinking it. LOL, THE DREADED SHRINKAGE!

As long as Husband doesn't add to the poop pile by doing it again, that thing is getting easier and easier for me to ignore because my life is filling up with much more interesting things. :)

So yes, like you, Ms. Coco, we are keeping the marriage, we are keeping the infrastructure, we are keeping the dinged vow. These things have value. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Etc. (Insert Your Favorite Cliche Here.) I, however, am expanding my world so that Husband and whatever shenanigans he has pulled, or might pull in the future, are a smaller part of it. :)

All this being said, this whole game plan of keeping this infrastructure and the dinged vow works for me because Husband's indiscretion was (so far) a one off. God love you ladies (and all spouses and sig others) who are putting up with, have fielded and dealt with, multiple infidelities within the same relationship.

I am not making a blanket judgment here: the reasons for multiple/serial infidelities are legion and can be as personal as the individual himself/herself. The reasons for staying with a serial/multiple philanderer are just as legion and personal, I'm sure. While I hold the belief that it's more difficult to stay with a serial/multiple philanderer (once is a bad decision/poor judgment call, twice is a trend, three times is a habit) I'm sure that there are couples who have successfully reconciled if the pathologies behind the behavior are adequately and successfully addressed. So, no judgment- but I will say flat out that for me, simply growing a larger, more interesting life would not be enough to put serial infidelities 'in context.'

Then again, I personally have known/known of women who did just that- they loved their infrastructure, perhaps even loved their husbands as well- and grew large, interesting lives that shrunk their husband's 'indiscretions' down to a size they could manage emotionally/pschologically and/or even flat out ignore. I've watched it happen. I'm not saying that's healthy (at some level, isn't it living a lie? I don't know... what's the difference between turning one's head and living a lie?) but I've watched it happen.

I've also seen the women on both ends of that situation get a raw deal out of it, emotionally if not worse, so there's that too. For many reasons we probably shouldn't get into here, this particular pattern seems to play out more, historically, with male philanderers and female wives and affair partners. It could be changing as infidelity demographics continue to shift toward equal participation by women.

Anyway, just some random thoughts on how I'm trying to get 'unstuck.' Writing it out on this thread has been useful- because I can clearly see, thinking of my own life, that slowly, incrementally, I *am* getting 'unstuck.' :)

SI Staff posted 7/31/2019 17:12 PM

A particular someone is offended that there's a thread joking about paying WPs for sex as if they were whores. Life sucks.

Just a reminder, please be respectful of the members who post here. Calling out specific members (you don’t need to write a name to do so) is against the guidelines.

Please remember that pulling information from other forums is also against guidelines. This has been done multiple times in this forum.

cocoplus5nuts posted 7/31/2019 17:34 PM

Marriageredux, we are reconciled. My fch did, and continues to do, the work necessary to fix himself and our M. That's not my problem. My problem is, do I like him as a person?

I let a lot of things go in the beginning because he acted like they really weren't important to him, politics, religion, etc., because he had so many positive characteristics. Now, I wonder if those positive characteristics were real. The ones he still exhibits aren't that important to me now.

So, I sometimes imagine being with my soulmate. Someone who cares deeply about the environment, human rights, equality, compassion, and so much more. My H is none of those things, at least not in the way I believe they should be. We talked about values and principles a while ago. It would seem we share the same ones. But, the way he goes about achieving them is so opposite to what I would do that I don't see it, if that makes sense.

Some specific examples. He is Republican. I was a card carrying Democrat when we met. Not sure what I am now, but I could never be Republican. He is catholic. I am atheist. He is a United States Marine. I am a pacifist. (FWIW, he was not in the military when we got married.) He is very rule oriented, followsnorms, does what is expected and has always been done because that's just how it's done. He doesn't question anything. I am a nonconformist. I rebel against rules. I question everything. I'm a thinker. He is not. There's so much more. I could go on and on. We are so extremely different.

None of that mattered before because we loved each other, were faithful, honest, and he accepted me as I am. Then, he cheated. He cheated because he had built up resentments toward me for not being who he thought I should be even though I was authentic from the beginning. I think that, just as much as he pretended himself, he also didn't see me for who I really am. He saw a fantasy of what he thought I should be.

Part of the work he has done on himself is learning to be more open, honest, and authentic. That has caused conflict between us that I'm not sure I can accept. I'm stuck with this man that I didn't know for 15 years. I'm not sure I like him.

I've got plans. I'm liv9ng my own life, have changed things for myself. I know I can leave whenever I want. Trying to decide at this point what I want.

Tallgirl posted 7/31/2019 17:35 PM

About Cheaters getting easy or convenient sex off the shelf. I don’t get it. Is it boredom? Pure intrigue? Desire to add a notch? Is it as easy emotionally as buying a candy bar?

My asshat went to the hooker store with the intent to buy.

Both are disgusting and hurt. Is one worse than the other...? Probably depends on where you sit. My WHy bought a fucking subscription... 5 year discount.

Marriage redux, what has your WH done for you that has been truly meaningful? That shows you that he is worth your heart..

You have done great things for yourself, he can’t take credit for that. What work is he doing? I am curious.

Mine. Has a marathon ahead

.eta... I thought that down deep my WH loved me. He had morals. He wouldn’t cheat. I stuck my head in the sand. I hid from his anger and cruelty. I didn’t face it. I guess I was afraid of change. I was a coward. I can’t be that again. That is self destruction.

He says he loves me and wants the M. I think it is a lie that he believes. I think I am. His new fantasy. His ticket to becoming a good man.. once a shit - always stained. Tide can’t touch this one.

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 5:43 PM, July 31st (Wednesday)]

TX1995 posted 7/31/2019 18:17 PM

Hopping back in after a break. Did a week long therapy retreat which was a little piece of heaven now back to the real, affair-trigger world.

MRedux - great post! I’m all for plastic surgery, I just don’t have the guts. :) I have a fear of being the one that has complications but I’d love to have my 20 yo boobs back instead of these deflated balloons that nursed two kids and went through 2 DDay weight losses. 😜

Chaos - I love that you had a great trip!!

He was never honest about who he truly was either until after DDay. It's hard to come to terms with because it invalidates everything that made you love them in the first place.

Yep. It’s quite interesting. Since DDay 1 but even more since 2 (was TT but huge from EA to PA), I feel like I finally know WH. Mind you I’ve “known” him since we were 14, been dating since 19 (22 years ago). The image he gave to the world was not him. Not strip club him, not the good Catholic son, the diligent worker, doting husband and father. None of it. He didn’t even know himself. It’s been interesting to watch.

Coco, your WH sounds like mine used to be. we started dating when he had a Dole/Kemp sticker on his car. Young Republican to my Uber liberal Democrat. He’s now changed so much that he’s canvassed with me for candidates and even debated his parents on their views (a no no in his house to have your own thoughts). Not something I had ever expected from him, but heartening to see him actually think for himself instead of doing what his family and friends do.

Can I ask a question? I don’t really want to start a big thread though I guess I could. How on earth do you have sex after a PA? Our HB happened after DDay 1 but I thought it was not a PA. Now if I even think about his penis I get disgusted. Much less if I happen to feel it. This is way TMI but I can let HIM get me off, so long as no part of his body but his hands touch me. Otherwise my brain goes straight to what he did with her. I know for a fact he didn’t do that (only think of the woman and not himself) with her, so somehow my brain let’s it happen. But I can’t touch him in any way or let him do anything else or my brain and body shut down. Is that normal at 2 months post finding our? To feel disgusted at the thought of touching him?

Tallgirl posted 7/31/2019 19:32 PM

TX.

I don’t honestly know. Sometimes I can’t bear to look at him. At the beginning I could not tolerate any touch. I would even shrink away from an accidental bump. It got a little better with time.

Since the Dday 3-End of April- I haven’t touched him. Not a bump.

27 years and I can’t

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 7:32 PM, July 31st (Wednesday)]

Chili posted 7/31/2019 19:56 PM

Hey I thought this was a Womenz-only thread!

Chili posted 7/31/2019 20:12 PM

TX and Tallgirl

Re: physical touch

I really do hear you on this one. I didn't attempt anything resembling reconciliation for very long, but I had major problems with that issue. Of course assclown was all about the HB - he was extra special exciterated by the triangulation I think and kept pushing himself on me and well...

And really I had similar visceral responses. Like you TG - I flinched every time and just couldn't. Once I found out weeks later that she wasn't the only one and got tested for STDs - well I think I knew I would never be able to get past that physically (or in any other way actually). I know this is probably not very helpful since I ended things, but I remember wondering if I could ever touch him again, much less be intimate. That's an awfully big mountain to climb I would think. My heart goes out to everyone in reconciliation dealing with this.

Tallgirl posted 7/31/2019 20:51 PM

Assclown. A new one for my collection.

R is simply a terrifying. Takes a lot of courage.

TX1995 posted 7/31/2019 21:20 PM

TG - Sorry you have had the same experience. It blows. I hear of people having the mind movies during sex but I have them before that even becomes an option... I suppose being in limbo plays a big part. And the whole not trusting him or feeling safe with him.

Chili - What a douche your XH was! Assclown is a perfect word. I do wonder if things will change. Or if maybe R is just something I can’t do after a PA. No matter what WH does, it just might not be enough. I don’t want that for me, him or the kids, but it just might be the case. At least there are people like you who have gone the path and thrived so that I know it’s pissible!

marriageredux959 posted 7/31/2019 21:41 PM

Hi, Everybody!

Thank you so much for your responses!

I've intermittently post bombed (nuked, actually) SI in the process of trying to get through this, or at least get my head around it and begin to heal.

Of all the stuff I've written, my first post on this thread was (somehow) the most cathartic. Maybe I am simply finally at a place where I'm ready to move forward. Your response have been most helpful, prodding me to think!

TallGirl, we are one year and one month post DDay 2 (DDay 1 was years ago and much minimized.) Since then Husband has read pretty much everything I've asked him to read, plus some stuff he's found on his own. He took concrete steps toward IC but for legit reasons it did not work out. It's not off the table and we will soon be in a situation where it will be more feasible, and also likely to be more effective.

In the meantime:

Husband has diverted as much cash as I requested into my plastic surgery, along with pretty much a whole new wardrobe as I lost weight and had the surgery.

He waited on me hand and foot, around the clock, during my recovery. He even took off from work to do so- something that likely would have been a major obstacle before DDay reset our priorities.

He's moved from being in nearly complete, abject denial at DDay (like, I am not kidding, we literally had the fucking Clinton Conversations about what defines sex, and it depends on the definition of "is," for real) through being almost irrationally defensive, to pedestrian defensive, to admitting and owning his shit.

To his credit he never once tried to blame shift onto me. Well, he kinda did at the very beginning, not that what he did was in any way my fault, but that he'd had to forgive me for shit too.

Of course he has- but he's not had to forgive me for physical, sexual contact with another person since we were married. *Ahem* this is one area where apples and oranges may both be fruit but they are not the same.

He actually moved past that defensive stance on his own and fairly quickly.

He also tried briefly to blame the guys he was with, they did it! They took him to that place! He was just following them around! But that got blown of the water easily enough.

After months (and months, and MONTHS) of various degrees of defensive behavior, and a whole lot of reading, he finally made it to a place where he's owning his own shit and taking responsibility for it.

I believe that shame was a major impediment.

It was a major image deconstruction to move from an "It just happened! and it just happened, *to* me!" stance to one in which Husband admitted that:

a. He made a conscious decision to take advantage of the offer for physical, sexual contact,
b. He did so based on the presumption that what I didn't know wouldn't hurt me, that I'd never find out, so no harm, no foul. That would have worked, too, except he couldn't handle his guilt and his face gave him away as soon as he walked through the door. He still didn't get up off of it readily, even when confronted. It took three days at home before he could spit a version of the story out, and that was with me asking him directly for two days what was going on. Even then I got "Narrative Lite," a much cleaned up version of events. But, the point is, he chose to engage in this activity based on the intent to lie to me by omission, and he attempted to do so.
c. He knew it was wrong before he did it, and when he did it, and he enjoyed the hell out of it while it was happening regardless. He enjoyed it so much that he facilitated it and prolonged it- he kept it going. Guilt didn't catch up to him until after the episode was over and the actual physical stimulation had ceased.
d. He knew this would always be there, and be on his mind, until he told me and I forgave him- but he couldn't bring himself to tell me on his own volition, and he wasn't completely honest with me when he did. He stole my forgiveness and went with it.

It was really, really hard for him to own all of that shit. Really hard. It took MONTHS- but I understand that it often takes YEARS- so OK. Owning all of this completely deconstructed the image of himself that he had carefully crafted for himself, for me, and for the world at large.

The short version of this is that he's owned his shit, it was painful, but he owned it.

We can't make the thing disappear, so owning his shit completely about it is probably the next best thing. :)

Also, accountability is not and hasn't been an issue. I have access to everything and I handle the money. :) Transparency is built into our systems for both of us.

I know others have responded- thank you!- and I will respond more later. I'm wiped out tonight, in a good way- busy but productive day. :)

marriageredux959 posted 7/31/2019 22:53 PM

I've been up too late reading, but this thought occurred to me, and I want to put it here before I lose it:

Transcendence.

I feel like part of my, acceptance? is actually transcendence.

I feel like I am already "beyond."

Not necessarily "beyond" this relationship (although, maybe) but simply, beyond.

I feel like I am living in between two worlds right now, and at least halfway into the next: I am in transition between definitions of myself.

"Reconciliation" may have little to do with Husband. If he evolves, if he is evolving, that's his business and more power to him. You Go Husband!

"Reconciliation" may happen between the person I am becoming and the person that I was, the person that accepted this raft of crap and tried (and largely succeeded) at making something substantial, of value, sustaining and sustainable, out of it.

This is interesting: I almost wrote that I was reaching for the evolution, for the person that I am becoming, but I stopped short. That's not accurate. I am not reaching for that person. I was pushed.

Ergo I see this as almost a forgone conclusion: a person who is pushed off of a cliff doesn't have a choice about being airborne. That person does have the choice between crashing and learning to fly.

Chaos posted 8/1/2019 07:42 AM

How on earth do you have sex after a PA?

TX1995 - I make it all about me. In the most crude sense possible. I tell WH what I want, what I need, how I want him to move, what I want done and I make sure I enjoy it to the fullest. If/when those mind movies hit - I amp it the heck up until I can't think anymore.

Basically, I fu*k the crap out of him and then fu*k him some more. Until I'm done.

And I make sure I have the tools to help things along if necessary. Particularly if he's not feeling "UP" to par.

I wear sexy underthings for me. I dress for me. I do my hair and make up for me. I exercise and keep myself up for me. Heck, sometimes I catch a glimpse of myself in the mirror and turn myself on I take care of that too

Please note - no where about did I say anything about making love.

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