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Betrayed Womenz Thread

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Tallgirl posted 8/11/2019 11:08 AM

Girls there is a thread called 10 years later... in General. V interesting.

Chaos posted 8/11/2019 12:26 PM

Just read it. That is my biggest fear. That I’ll always be this way way. That all this “work” will have been done. And for what?

Currently I tell myself I have the right to change it at any time. And for now that works.

Tallgirl posted 8/11/2019 18:22 PM

I know. Mine too. There is another good thread in the wayward area about r is worth the hard work. Funny opposites on the same day.

That might allay your fears.

Your fear is exactly why I have not been able to go back with him. I could not look at my WH today.

I found out how erotic massage works. A young woman rubs her naked body on a man then they finish him off with their hands. Men have to sit in a chair.

Images are killers. At least WH is committed to one woman at a time. Just not his wife.

I am a hair away from giving up.

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 6:42 PM, August 11th (Sunday)]

cocoplus5nuts posted 8/11/2019 19:51 PM

I just read the 10 years thread. Interesting that it came up around the same time I posted a question about my reconciliation.

I totally get that the specialness of the M will never come back. That's pretty much how I feel. I love my fch, but I am not in love with him.

Here's where I maybe differ from others. Idk that I ever was in love with my fch. He was a good man. He took care of me and my son. I was a single mother. He was what I needed at the time. I didn't even want to get married. He is the one who insisted.

The specialness of our M for me didn't come from any kind of deep, romantic love that I felt for him. I did not put him on a pedestal. The specialness came from how he seemed to worship me. Man, that sounds selfish! It is selfish. I'm still selfish about it.

We have a good life. He still does almost everything. I'm spoiled. I'm comfortable. I may decide in another 5 years that his cheating was a dealbreaker and get a D. I won't feel that this time right now was wasted.

I'm here for my family. I'm here because I know my fch still loves me. I'm here to give my boys the best life I can. And, the thing is, anyone can decide at anytime that they are done with their M for any reason. He could leave me tomorrow. That's the risk we all take.

Chaos posted 8/12/2019 07:21 AM

Therein lies my issue. I love my WH. I am in love with him.

How this could have been done to me - and for so long - it's a mind fuck.

Of all the pictures that I have and all the screen shots of texts/sexts etc. What haunts me the most is the series of photos of them in bed together.

I believe he loves me. I believe he always did. I know that this is a reflection on him - and his poor coping skills and how broken he was [I never knew he was broken - he hid that well].

I always thought what we had was special. I thought I was special to him. That lack of specialness is extraordinarily painful.

I'm willing to see if any level of that will return. Up until I realized the A was taken underground I believed it could. Now...I don't know. And that is a sobering reality.

cocoplus5nuts posted 8/12/2019 07:36 AM

Yes, the lack of specialness is the one thing right now that tries me up. This is going to sound really sad and cynical, but I don't feel that way about it. My fch was the first (only) person who ever just loved me for me. Of course, that wasn't true, but I didn't know it at the time. I think he thought he loved me unconditionally. IOW, I don't think he maliciously deceived me. That was all part of his brokenness.

Now that I know he really didn't love me that way, I'm back to believing no one ever will. Not that I'm not loveable, but people aren't capable of that kind of love. I'm not a romantic. I've never believed in soulmates or anything like that. I don't believe I will ever find someone else who takes care of me like my fch. Except for the cheating, he is a really good guy. I also believe the cheating was a one off thing. I am not concerned that he will do it again.

All that being said, we are only in year 5 of R. I've just recently come to the point where I feel like I am healed from his betrayal. Who knows how things will change over the next 5 years? Maybe some of that specialness will come back.

Chaos, remind me where you are now. Are you in active R? Are you separated? What's going on?

Chaos posted 8/12/2019 07:49 AM

Readers Digest Version -

We are attempting R.

DDay 1 - July 2017 [teen discovered]

DDay 2 - August 2018 [thought "just" broken NC - someone discovered him "liking" and commenting on her FB stuff

DDay 3 - October 2019 - I discovered them still chatting on FB messenger [I had his passwords] - I finally told OBS.

After that I had a few panic attacks that sent me to ER.

Spring 2019 he started intensive IC [after another ER visit for me] when I said "get help or get out". I started Rx.

FWIW - he's showing a level of remorse and compassion I THOUGHT I saw before (when it was underground) - but only now am realizing I had just enough to be placated but not enough to sustain.

My current "issue" of ambiguity comes from a combination of entering [again] the POLF combined with the Rx. Because now, when I think of things, I'm not blindsided by the overwhelming panic. So I'm seeing things through a new lens. It borders somewhere between detachment and disassociation. Teen still at home [and doing well - she knows nothing of subsequent DDays] so a soft 180.

I'm wondering when this became my life. And I'm looking at my future as an empty nester with and without him. Mentally exploring all options.

We are good together. When we went on vacation a few weeks ago just the 2 of us it was good. It was easy [not forced at all]. It felt comfortable - not old shoe - more fuzzy blanket.

So I figure it all out. I have time.

I also wonder if the Rx could be factoring the way I'm looking and feeling. It has taken away the panic/wind knocked out of me feeling when I think of things. Now - I'm just looking at things and getting a surreal feeling.

4.5 years. 3 years I had no fucking clue. 1.5 years underground.

For what? I [the BASGU that I am] was risked for a donut whore.

DevastatedDee posted 8/12/2019 08:27 AM

You guys in R are badasses. Seriously. That is the hardest thing of all the options, IMO.

And yes Chaos, you absolute hottie, your WH was a MORON to risk you for that.

DevastatedDee posted 8/12/2019 08:30 AM

I read the 10 years later thread too and I honestly think that my WH did me the biggest favor by making it impossible for me to stay another day. It would have been that way for me even if he had been absolutely perfect after DDay. The special was just gone and I very much doubt I would have ever felt that again. Some BSs aren't cut out for R either and I'd say I fall into that category.

Chaos posted 8/12/2019 08:45 AM

DevastatedDee - thanks dear friend. I'll never understand. THAT? I was risked for THAT? She's a Donut Whore as well as a mean, selfish, spiteful, manipulative bitch. Both OBS and WH describe her as such.

I'm still shocked that I decided to attempt R. I never in a million years thought it would be something I'd ever do. I also never thought it would happen to me so there's that...

Even at looking at things pragmatically - I still think in my case anyway, the attempt is for the greater good. I can always change my mind.

But I will always be able to look at myself in the mirror and say [no matter what the outcome] I did everything that I could.

Time will tell. And as with all things time - at any time - that can change. I can just take a jump to the left

DevastatedDee posted 8/12/2019 09:06 AM

and a step to the riiiight, lol! Yep. You are in control of your life and I bet he knows it.

cocoplus5nuts posted 8/12/2019 16:04 PM

Chaos, so you are not quite a year from final dday and only a few months into R, assuming real R didn't start on your CH's part until he started IC. No wonder you feel the way you do. You are still in very early days. You definitely have time.

What do you consider you, the BS, doing to attempt R?

I never thought of myself as attempting R. I just sort of stayed. My fch is the who went about attempting R. I guess in the very beginning I did some things, like get him the book, How to Help Your Spouse Heal. We did go to MC for a bit, but I quit. My fch continued. Funny because the MC was my IC first. Once I got the entire truth and the shock wore off I was so angry for so long. I pretended a lot, but I didn't commit to R or do anything to try to make it progress. I was going to say that my fch eventually w ok n me over, but that's not true. I really didn't make any progress until I did EMDR.

Tallgirl posted 8/12/2019 17:32 PM

Chaos, your posts sound so confident and ready to tackle the world. I think you rock. Honestly I don't know why your WH would have cheated, makes no sense. Did he think you didn't love him? That he wasn't worthy of anything? Frankly, he is damn lucky he still has you.

DD, I love your confidence and self knowledge. You know you made the right decision for you. It is admirable.

Coco, you have done great. You are choosing your destiny, ready to turn if needed at any point, should you wish.

You all are doing well. You all know who you are. VERY admirable.

It's one hell of a struggle, that's for damn sure.

I feel like my life is so f'ed up, it's not salvageable. Is that whiney - absolutely... mini violins play now...

And I SO HATE this victim feeling. I need steel toed kick ass boots up to my neck... or boxing gloves. OR BOTH... hmmm.

EllieKMAS posted 8/12/2019 20:13 PM

I always thought what we had was special. I thought I was special to him. That lack of specialness is extraordinarily painful.

YES THIS. Especially when the AP is an ignorant twat muffin... wtf? Been struggling with this a lot in the last few days.
I kinda feel like I am in detox right now. He's been gone with very minimal contact (only as relates to D) for 5 days and I can't wait for the day when the withdrawls aren't fucking me up still.
FWIW - I look for posts from you Chaos, and DD, and TG. A lot of wisdom and eye-opening things from all of you. Helps me more than I can tell you guys.

EllieKMAS posted 8/12/2019 20:15 PM

I really didn't make any progress until I did EMDR.

Coco - what is this? I have seen it referenced quite a bit. I did google it, but how did it help you specifically?

Tallgirl posted 8/12/2019 20:36 PM

Hey Ellie, this is what it is.

It seems to be recommended often for PTSD Ive seen lots of people recommend it. Seems to work on some.

Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing (EMDR) is a form of psychotherapy developed by Francine Shapiro in the 1990s in which the person being treated is asked to recall distressing images; the therapist then directs the client in one type of bilateral sensory input, such as side-to-side eye movements or hand tapping.It is included in several evidence-based guidelines for the treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder.

I am sorry you are on SI. But welcome.

EllieKMAS posted 8/12/2019 20:43 PM

Thanks TG... I guess it sucks to have a reason to come here, but I have very quickly come to depend on SI. Lots of really good folks on here. And bonus! None of you think I'm crazy!

I need to do some digging on the EMDR thing and see if I can go do it. At this point I would be willing to try anything to regain some sanity. And to quit having the stomach-on-a-rollercoaster thing happen 50 times a day...

cocoplus5nuts posted 8/12/2019 21:40 PM

EMDR

For me, it took a few tries to find the right sensory fit. I tried sound first, wearing headphones that alternated beeps in one ear and the other. Didn't help. Then, tried visual, watching a dot travel across a computer screen like that old game, Pong. That didn't help, either
Last, I tried tactile, holding a pad in each hand that alternately vibrated. That dis the trick for me.

I thought of my fch cheating and just let my thoughts go. Every few minutes, my therapist would stop and ask me what I experienced. Then, we'd go back to it. By the end, I was dancing in field as happy as I could be. I don't know how it works. All I know is that it worked a miracle for me.

Chaos posted 8/13/2019 07:00 AM

cocoplus5nuts - that's a perspective I've never considered - that I've only just begun. Thank you for that. Perspective is a beautiful thing.

What do you consider you, the BS, doing to attempt R?

I slept on that one. And my thoughts are all over the board.

Idealistically as the BS I shouldn't have to do jack squat.

Realistically I have to participate. So...what I've done. In no particular order...

*Hold my tongue from the snark [sometimes the snark is warranted - but if it is just to get a dig in because I can - erosion is still erosion - so I am mindful]. i.e., don't throw it in his face when the situation is uncalled for BUT do bring up when relevant.

Example - If he asks if I stopped to get milk on the way home and I forgot don't immediately go to "well at least I didn't fu*k a donut whore". BUT if I was preoccupied apologize for forgetting the milk but can say "I had a bad day with a lot of triggers and stopping at the store slipped my mind"

*Communicate my feelings - I can't expect him to intrinsically know when I'm having a trigger or bad day. Yes, something should be obvious [and the big things are] but the little obscure triggers aren't obvious and the fact that I've had a bad day because of many in a row isn't obvious either. Death by a thousand paper cuts - but those cuts are almost microscopic. I need to communicate that.

*Recognize effort [yeah - counter intuitive and honestly shouldn't be necessary and I'm not his parent but...] - when he does something right and good in response to a scenario - let him know. Positive reinforcement so to speak. I shouldn't have to compliment his ass for recognizing my pain that he freaking caused - BUT the ICs say this is what needs to be done so I do it. And begrudgingly see that it matters.

*Don't let him get away with the normal cheater bullshit. Call him on it but do so matter of fact - not with flooding emotion. Gray Rock communication when called for. Once he started intensively with IC this hasn't had to happen as much. He's started owning things far more than he used to [which was just enough to placate me I've come to realize]

*Date. Go on dates. Make the time and priority for dates. Talk about something other than the mundane [bills, kids, work, etc.]. Try new things. Run errands together. Go on new adventures (even if small like a new restaurant).

*Present as a couple. Even if I think we always have - make sure that we both project that image. (another IC tidbit)

*Go back to dating basics. Compliment. Hold doors. Touch. The little things.

*Be supporting of his IC. This is new for him. And he's doing it for me. I recognize this. I thank him for digging deep. I give him space when he gets home [he's more a rumination guy than a talker about this]. In fact, I asked him what he wanted from me after his first visit. He communicated that after a session he would appreciate the space. I said that if that changed, and he wanted to talk or just me to listen to let me know.

I hope that answers the question. I may not have communicated it as well as I hoped. This R is a delicate dance. And one I resent at times. It took a while to realize that if I just waited for him to do shit I'd be waiting and growing cobwebs. That I had to be an active participant even if I feel I shouldn't have to.

Time will tell and at any time I can tap out. I tell myself this and it renews me.

cocoplus5nuts posted 8/13/2019 09:29 AM

This R is a delicate dance. And one I resent at times. It took a while to realize that if I just waited for him to do shit I'd be waiting and growing cobwebs. That I had to be an active participant even if I feel I shouldn't have to.

I'm probably in the minority on this site when it comes to this, but I disagree that the BP needs to be an active participant early on. By early on, I mean the first year after true R begins. All the work should be on the shoulders of the WP. The WP needs to be doing the work for himself, not for the BP. He needs to want to change because it's the healthy thing to do, regardless of what happens with the M. Does that make sense?

Maybe that's the difference between whether R really works or not. If the WP is doing work for R only to try to save the M, and only as long as the BP gives the WP ego kibbles for it, isn't that really all the same shit? IOW, the WP is still attaching his self esteem and self worth on another person, the BP. The WP needs to be discovering how to be content with himself even if no one else is around. The BP shouldn't need to pat the WP on the back.

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