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fournlau posted 11/18/2019 20:27 PM

WH has done a lot to accept what he did, take the blame, apologize, make some changes. But I still feel like I don't see enough work. It's like he's happy where he's at and doesn't need to do more. He said he doesn't feel like the situation is an emergency anymore and believes that I will stay so he doesn't feel the need to do any more work on dealing with the A. I want more. I want to see him work his ass off to make things better. Yes, he's done some things but am I asking too much? I keep reading some posts that say the WS needs to work their butt off for R and I'm not seeing that. But I also don't know how else to ask for more. Am I just making too much of it? He's done a lot of work and I believe he is remorseful and I can see a time where I can trust again (not any time soon), but something is still missing for me. And like many have already said, it feels like I'm the one bearing the brunt of his behavior while his consequences are almost nonexistent and he's happier now than he has been in years. This just doesn't seem right to me at all! Maybe that's what pisses me off. He's happy, and I'm still working on just accepting what happened. I've never been depressed in my life, and I'm 47 now, but now I'm on anxiety and anti-depression meds just to keep my moods balanced! This has changed my life for the worst while he's getting everything he wants it seems. Fucking shit sandwich for sure!

crazyinlove1995 posted 11/18/2019 21:09 PM

Hey and welcome to the shit show sorry you joined us.I was unable to reconcile so take my small advise as you wish.Expect very little then you won't be disappointed.Sorry if I'm a downer.You are not being unreasonable.Tell him what you want and do not accept any less!
Peace

EllieKMAS posted 11/18/2019 21:30 PM

If he isn't willing to bend over backwards and do anything you need for him to do to fix what he broke then he hasn't done anywhere near enough to accept what he did, take the blame, or apologize.

Beware of false R. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt. 10/10 do not recommend.

If he isn't diggin in to himself to find out where and why he is so broken along with helping your recovery, then he is still head up ass in wayward mode.

Sorry

DashboardMadonna posted 11/18/2019 21:31 PM

I agree with crazy.

The fact he is that flippant about catastrophic this is, only shows you whom he is. He still feels entitled. He does not get to decide how long it take you to heal, he should be jumping through hoops. The hugest part of your healing has everything to do with him making you feel safe. He is either cheating or will cheat again, because this very lack of empathy (You cant learn this, but marriage councelors will try to convince you of unicorns)is what made him to decide to gamble with your marriage. Did you 180 him? Hes betting on you rug sweeping....something tells me there has been a lot of boundaries crossed by him, in the past. If he is anything like my husband, he will only escalate, with every boundary you allow him to cross (you allowing him to stay/take him back), they push further...like an entitled rebellious man-child.

He is not remorseful, if he is stomping his feet. You hold the cards now. You have to decide if it is YOU that had enough. Dont be a push-over draw a line and follow through.

Thumos posted 11/18/2019 22:41 PM

He said he doesn't feel like the situation is an emergency anymore and believes that I will stay so he doesn't feel the need to do any more work on dealing with the A.

Well, screw this douchebag.

He should go do something anatomically impossible with himself. You deserve better. Don’t settle. If he won’t pull his head out of his ass, leave the jack wagon.

Justsomeguy posted 11/19/2019 08:45 AM

Your story reminds me of my situation. My STBXWW did some work. Told me the truth (no way to verify), full access to phone(everything deleted), showed remorse (probably just regret), went to half dozen IC appointments, and almost read some books. But she is not a do-er. She is as lazy as the day is long and It came to a head for me. When the school year ended, i took off on my motorcycle for a solo trip to think. I was gone for a week, camping beside my bike, journaling, reading about codepenancy. When i got home, i talked to her.

Our conversation was basically this: i asked her why as a BS was i doing all the heavy lifting in terms of R? Why was she not moving heaven and earth to save this marriage. She said, and i kid you not, that she could not be there for me until I was in a better place as I made her feel too guilty. I looked at her and told her, you are not actually ever going to change. I told her we were done and filed for divorce. What I saw after filing was what I could not see before, what everyone else did, a spoiled, petulant, entitled, immature woman who is not capable of feeling empathy or authentic emotion. A woman incapable of true loving.

I put me first. It's been 17 months now and I second guessed myself for about 15 seconds one time. What cured me of that is going through my old journal entries. The chaos the agony, the heartbreak that I suffered all day, every day was awful. Now I have sadness and peace. I am on my own in my own place. It is all mine. Its painfully small, close to work and my kids school. Most of the time my teenage girls dont want anything to do with me. I feel overwhelmed at times, but I am okay. My mom was a single mom and taught me how to survive. Life and the army taught me everything else.

Holy shit this is a long post. Point is this. You will survive. Fear of the future should not keep you shackled to this regardless of what path you choose. Dont know if any of this helps. Maybe I needed to get some of it out too.

cocoplus5nuts posted 11/19/2019 08:47 AM

believes that I will stay so he doesn't feel the need to do any more work on dealing with the A.

The saying goes that you have to be willing to lose the relationship to save it. He doesn't need to do anything if you accept that. If you want more, you have to draw a line in the sand. Do more or I'm divorcing you!

He is not truly remorseful. He is not R material. If he were truly remorseful he would do all the work for himself. He would realize that he has some serious issues he needs to add if he wants to be a decent person. That would be completely separate from you and your M.

He wants you to rugsweep and is very confident that you will. Are you ok with that?

nekonamida posted 11/19/2019 08:50 AM

Fornalau, I'm shocked that you're even doubting yourself. Your WH told you point blank he's only ever going to do the bare minimum to not get a D and then let everything go back to status quo - a status quo that included lying and cheating. How can you even question your own responsibility in this? Clearly he's 100% at fault, extremely manipulative in how he's pretending to R, and at high risk of cheating on you again because he's not doing the work. Your actions can't control his so no, you're in no way responsible for this or asking too much.

Is going back to the status quo where he was cheating acceptable to you? You don't have to accept this. Do you have an IC? Get one and get "Codependent No More" by Melodie Beatie because thinking you're asking for too much when asking for him to R with you and finding yourself responsible for his terrible behavior are codependent traits that you don't need in your life. Find out where your boundaries are, set them, 180 him, and enact consequences if he can't live up to R. Get yourself to a place where you don't NEED him and if he has a place in your marriage, it's because he's earning it and not because he's getting away with it.

RedHeadTemper posted 11/19/2019 10:41 AM

Your husband is D material. And you are his enabler. Show him your serious about the M and if he's even thinking he's got a chance at R he should move heaven and earth. And it should be for him, not for you or your M. If he won't do that, it's time to move on. Get out of denial.

Denial = enemy.

Chaos posted 11/19/2019 10:46 AM

He said he doesn't feel like the situation is an emergency anymore and believes that I will stay so he doesn't feel the need to do any more work on dealing with the A.

Isn't he fucking cute.

Just because he believes in his fantasy land doesn't mean you have to.

Of course he's happy. He got all the fucking cake and you are content to clean up the mess he made and ignore him mocking you while you do it.

Stand up, give him the broom and walk boldly away [either physically or metaphorically - that's up to you].

backtonormal posted 11/19/2019 13:48 PM

I'm sorry you are here but hope that this community can give you some knowledge that you are not alone. Have you been to couples counseling? Individual counseling? He needs to continue to put in whatever work you feel he needs to do. If he's not willing to meet your needs then he's still selfish. The only way a marriage works is when we become selfless and putting the needs of the other first. Is he willing to do that? Honest communication is essential. Communication that remains respectful, truly listening to what the other is saying without interrupting and trying hard to not formulate your own response until after the other person has spoken. It's not easy but that type of communication can be learned. You are in a tough place and I think it's time that you set some clear boundaries.

The1stWife posted 11/19/2019 14:20 PM

So basically he doused then flames but has failed to address the smoldering embers.

He seems to be selfish and feeling as though you are willing to accept his crumbs towards making amends.

My H continues to make amends 6 years later.

fournlau posted 11/19/2019 14:34 PM

All of this is a great kick in the ass. It really is amazing how we, stuck in the M post A, can't see things clearly even though we are smart people. At least I like to think of myself as smart, but this whole thing has turned my world upside down and I guess it's going to take years to right it again.

I wrote a draft to email my WH because writing things down makes it easier for me to convey what I am thinking. I would like to get some feedback, not just from the BS but from WS to see if this adequately lays out what I'm looking for and if you are a WS receiving this, would it make sense? Thank you all.

I can see the work you've done to improve our relationship and our marriage and I don't want to take anything away from that. However, while our relationship and marriage is important to work on, so is the damage done by the affair. That is where I don't see any work done, or at least only the minimum work done, by you.

The things I have asked for you have not provided. I will never feel safe or be able to trust you again if you don't work on the reasons the affair happened in the first place.

You were vulnerable to the beginning of an affair, not just because our marriage wasn't the best at the time, but because of something in you that made it ok for you to do what you did.

You can promise all you want that it will never happen again, and you might even believe it, but, if you don't learn what it was that made you vulnerable to it in the first place, and work to correct that behavior or thinking, what is there to say that that vulnerability will not once more be used to convince you to have another affair?

The books I've read are not just for the person betrayed, but also for the person that was unfaithful. For instance, did you know that being cheated on is a traumatic event? Akin to surviving a natural disaster, or a carjacking. In fact, the symptoms of a betrayed spouse are the same as those of people with PTSD. These books try to help the unfaithful partner be a good healer to their betrayed spouse and make clear the many pitfalls they might fall into.

While it is great that we are doing better as a couple with our relationship, we still need to work on why the affair happened and how we...you...can make sure it never happens again.

When you tell me that you don't feel the need to do any more work on the affair part of this because you believe that I am here to stay and am not going anywhere, what I hear is "I don't need to do anything more to make this better for my wife since she's staying anyway." Which makes me feel that I am not worth your time and what I've asked of you is not worth your effort either. 

You said that you don't feel that what we are going through is a crisis or an emergency anymore, yet I am still in crisis and emergency mode. Which means, that the marriage, whether you believe it or not, is still in crisis and emergency mode. I have never been a depressed person in my almost 50 years but now, I have to take anxiety and depression medication just to stabilize my moods so I don't spend every night crying myself to sleep. I am not OK, I am hurting and I need you to step up and make things right.

I hope I am making things clear in what I need and want and that you will be able to work on these things, with research, reading, counseling, I really don't care, as long as you begin to look at why you did what you did and try to minimize the possibility that it will happen again. This will not only be good for us, but for you as well.

crazyinlove1995 posted 11/19/2019 16:31 PM

((four))Gently He may or may not read.Then what are you going to do?.He may go to counseling.What if he says no?He may doall those things,but can you live a life of what if?You need to 180him detach,think what You are going to do...No what if for you,let him go think 'What if she leaves me?
Peace

nekonamida posted 11/20/2019 07:38 AM

That was VERY well written. Great letter. I hope he responds positively to it but if he doesn't, you will need a back up plan like Crazy suggests.

EllieKMAS posted 11/20/2019 09:52 AM

Fournlau your letter is amazing. Well written and to the point without being bitchy and that is so hard to do.

But you need to decide for yourself what you will or will not tolerate as far as action on his part. If he reads this and chucks it in the garbage, or reads it and doesn't do what you've (very reasonably) asked of him. Sadly those are both possibilities here. You have zero control of the outcome or what he decides to do. All YOU can do is decide what you are willing to tolerate.

That is so hard and such a hard realization, but once you get there it is freeing too.

fournlau posted 11/20/2019 12:02 PM

Thank you all for the feedback. Our marriage before the A had issues, but they were regular long term M issues, he didn't think he was getting enough sex, I didn't think he was very emotionally available etc. And I was never unhappy. There were times when I just felt content, but that was enough for me and nothing that would make me want to get a D.

But, like I said in the letter, I will never feel safe or be able to trust him if he doesn't take steps to fix the reason he allowed himself to do this. So I guess I will need to start getting my ducks in a row and be ready. This is my last attempt to get him to understand what I need and want, the ball will be in his court and he will decide how this goes. And maybe, if he knows I'm ready to walk out, he'll move his ass. Then again, maybe not and I know that I have to be prepared for that too.