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Headed for divorce

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TheThunderRolls posted 1/4/2021 09:24 AM

Question for everyone that has been to IC. How has it improved yourself beyond realizing your self worth, self esteem and finding yourself? Did you become more demanding and bitchy with your WS as a result? I know I need to let go of the outcome, I know my WH though and he will not put up with an attitude or bitchiness. I donít want to become that person but I do want to fix and heal myself.

Chili posted 1/4/2021 09:57 AM

How has it improved yourself beyond realizing your self worth, self esteem and finding yourself?

Well - for full disclosure - I've been with the same IC off and on for over 15 years. I suppose it has been about the above, but honestly, it's my place to be "real." To take a stroll into those areas that all of us have learned to avoid (often for self-protection). Fear. Shame. The biggest long-term outcome I've gleaned from IC is learning how to fully trust myself. That I've got my own back no matter what kind of sucker punch life throws at me.

Did you become more demanding and bitchy with your WS as a result

I guess I don't really understand this. Me getting all kinds of better with myself actually improved my relationships I think. I learned how to deal with conflict better because I had discovered things like my own boundaries. I also learned how to self-soothe, so my emotions in general became more level. If your IC is a good one - they are not going to "tell you" to stay in a relationship or leave it - they are going to help guide you with finding your own truth and maybe give you suggestions on ways to express that in healthy ways.

he will not put up with an attitude or bitchiness

What does this even mean? Are you worried that he'll see your own healthy growth as a threat? That he will mistake strength with bitchiness because you speak up for yourself? Or is this maybe a fear of yours?


Look - a part of me thought my own assclown should have been caressed on the back of his head with a cast iron skillet.

Talking it out with IC taught me to take that kind of anger and propel me into doing something for myself. "Rage" was encouraged because it got me off my butt to say: no more. Therapy was never about "him" or what "his" potential reactions might be. At some point, how he reacted just didn't really have the ability to affect me very much.

TheThunderRolls posted 1/4/2021 10:08 AM

Chili- on one hand my husband says he wants to work things out, wants me to heal, realize my self worth etc. then in the next breathe he says he doesnít want me to become over confident, demanding crap and acting like a bitch because that will push him out the door and that I wouldnít make it work with anyone with that kind of mentality. He supports IC for me however thinks IC will brainwash me into leaving and or wake me up to a lot of things. I want to heal but Iím also afraid that in doing so I will lose him. Iím co-dependent for sure. I realize I need to fix this about myself. I also realize I need to put the focus on me. Therapy cannot come quick enough.

EllieKMAS posted 1/4/2021 10:15 AM

on one hand my husband says he wants to work things out, wants me to heal, realize my self worth etc. then in the next breathe he says he doesnít want me to become over confident, demanding crap and acting like a bitch because that will push him out the door and that I wouldnít make it work with anyone with that kind of mentality.
Soooo... setting healthy boundaries and communicating them will make him uncomfy? Yeah. He likes you not being confident in yourself or your boundaries cus then he gets to call the shots. And correction - YOU being healthy and setting healthy boundaries would not work for HIM.

He supports IC for me however thinks IC will brainwash me into leaving and or wake me up to a lot of things.
So again... he will stay and be your husband so long as you never have any issues with him or call him out on his CRAP BEHAVIOR and just put up and shut up with whatever he says and feels?

I want to heal but Iím also afraid that in doing so I will lose him. Iím co-dependent for sure. I realize I need to fix this about myself. I also realize I need to put the focus on me. Therapy cannot come quick enough.
The beauty part of this is - when you heal and start being able to set healthy boundaries, you truly might not want him anymore because you will see this crap for the manipulation and emotional bullying it is.

EllieKMAS posted 1/4/2021 10:44 AM

Here's another way to frame this TTR.

Let's say you had a best friend that you'd known for a long time. You have been through some shit together, you've had fun, you really care about this person.

Then say you find out that this best friend got a hold of your banking info and stole $1,000 from you.

When you (understandably) say wtf to this friend they tell you:

-I needed the money for things.
-It was your fault for leaving your bank account info laying around.
-I will still stay friends with you so long as you never say anything about the money I stole or have an issue with the fact that I stole it.

Would you feel angry and betrayed at them feeling like they had a right to take from you? Would this friend be someone you could trust again do you think?

TheThunderRolls posted 1/4/2021 12:29 PM

Ellie- this has been a continued problem through my relationship with WH from the very beginning. Iím always at fault. Heís never the problem. Iím too sensitive, or overreacting or taking his attitude (that he denies having) the wrong way. Never, ever takes responsibility for his moods. I know I should let my happiness depend on how he treats me but it does🥴 Also he got pissed at me for telling my sister he cheated when heís the one that cheated, I mean wtf? He was like you could have talked to her about our issues without telling her I cheated 2 years ago. What good was that telling her? Do you feel better now?

In the example you provided, I would be like wtf you stole money from me & now youíre getting mad at me for not agreeing with your actions? I would most likely end the friendship.

EllieKMAS posted 1/4/2021 12:41 PM

I would be like wtf you stole money from me & now youíre getting mad at me for not agreeing with your actions? I would most likely end the friendship.
I used that example because stealing money is more black and white.

But honestly, a cheating spouse is a thief too. They steal your trust. Your time. Your mental and emotional energy. Those things aren't as tangible as $1,000, but they are far more precious.

this has been a continued problem through my relationship with WH from the very beginning. Iím always at fault. Heís never the problem. Iím too sensitive, or overreacting or taking his attitude (that he denies having) the wrong way. Never, ever takes responsibility for his moods.
Oh boy, I know exactly how that goes. This is narcissistic abuse 101. It is crazy-making because them constantly doing that makes you doubt your own reality. It makes it hard to know with certainty that what they are doing is shitty. But please know that what he is doing IS shitty. It's abusive.

I am sure he really doesn't want you getting IC because his behaviors will not stand up to scrutiny from an objective outsider. And your wh does NOT want you getting wise to his tricks.

TheThunderRolls posted 1/4/2021 12:58 PM

Ellie- WH said he wants me to get IC however I also think you might be on to something. He says I deserve better than him, he said he thinks deep down me going to IC is going to make things very different between us but isnít sure if that is a good or bad thing but as long as I heal and am happy that is all that matters. He has also stated he thinks my standards are way to low & IC will ďwake me upĒ Iím also going to explore if a certain attachment I have to him is what keeps me hanging on instead of letting him go.

EllieKMAS posted 1/4/2021 13:15 PM

TTR, I still am not certain whether my xdouche was a narcissistic abuser, but I know for damn sure my father was one. The arguments you describe are verbatim arguments I had with my dad.

I don't know if you have done any reading on this but google the term 'DARVO'. This stands for Deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender.

You: You cheated on me and I am hurt by that.
Him: No I didn't.
You: Provides evidence.
Him: Well maybe I did that, but you did/said this thing.
You: That has nothing to do with you cheating on me. You seek support from a family member.
Him: How dare you tell them what I did! I can't trust you at all. It's like you will never forgive me.

Sound familiar??

Dealing with narc abuse is really hard. On the surface, the things they say seem to make sense. But when you start actually looking at it and examining it, their stance is built on a bunch of manure and quicksand. That is clearly illustrated by this:

He supports IC for me however thinks IC will brainwash me into leaving and or wake me up to a lot of things.
He 'supports' IC for you, but is already setting it up that if your eyes get opened and you (rightfully) start to call him out on this bullshit then it is because you were 'brainwashed'. See? Still not his fault, now it's the therapists fault!

Fact: He cheated on his wife.
Fact: He partially blames you for this.
Fact: He is refusing to do any of the work on himself.
Fact: You are allowed and should seek IRL support from trusted friends and family members and you are allowed to speak your truth to them.

BigNoob posted 1/4/2021 14:49 PM

He 'supports' IC for you, but is already setting it up that if your eyes get opened and you (rightfully) start to call him out on this bullshit then it is because you were 'brainwashed'. See? Still not his fault, now it's the therapists fault!


This 100%!

When the abused start to get stronger than the abusers, the abusers begin to panic that they have no control anymore.

TheThunderRolls posted 1/4/2021 15:52 PM

Ellie-I wonder if thatís what he realizes & when I start calling him out on his bullshit thatís when he will walk away? I feel like it would be easier on me if I was the one who walked away instead of if he did.

BigNoob- is this something I should be concerned with? Iíve never been afraid of WH before.

Also, did you all discuss what happened during IC to your WH? I want to make sure Iím doing this correctly. Do I keep it between myself and IC or allow WH some insight?

EllieKMAS posted 1/4/2021 16:28 PM

I wonder if thatís what he realizes & when I start calling him out on his bullshit thatís when he will walk away? I feel like it would be easier on me if I was the one who walked away instead of if he did.
Mine walked away when I started to not buy his bullshit anymore. Did it hurt? Yeah, not gonna lie. Am I sorry he did? Nope. But I'm with you - after all is said and done, I wish that I had ended it decisively. But that is because of what I know now. At the time, I did the best I could with what I knew then.

Also, did you all discuss what happened during IC to your WH? I want to make sure Iím doing this correctly. Do I keep it between myself and IC or allow WH some insight?
I don't know that there's a 'right' way on that. But the title of this thread is 'headed for divorce'. If that is true? Then no, I wouldn't share your IC stuff with him. That's a vulnerability and he doesn't deserve to see that. just my 0.02.

TheThunderRolls posted 1/5/2021 07:23 AM

Anxiety is a real B. My fight or flight response has kicked in full force. Therapy doesnít start until Friday. Thatís my update for today. Praying it gets better.

TwoDozen posted 1/5/2021 07:53 AM

Sorry minor t/j

You: You cheated on me and I am hurt by that.
Him: No I didn't.
You: Provides evidence.
Him: Well maybe I did that, but you did/said this thing.
You: That has nothing to do with you cheating on me. You seek support from a family member.
Him: How dare you tell them what I did! I can't trust you at all. It's like you will never forgive me.

@ElieKMass erm do you have direct access to my kitchen Alexa per chance 🤔

Word for word our conversations

ETA: replace ďhimĒ with ďherĒ

[This message edited by TwoDozen at 7:54 AM, January 5th (Tuesday)]

TheThunderRolls posted 1/6/2021 07:41 AM

My IC starts Friday, to everyone that has been to one, how long did it take you to start feeling better about yourself & determine what needs to be done? I know everyone heals at a different pace, Iím wondering how long Iíll be in therapy for. Is this only for a year or am I looking at 5 years etc? I just want to start feeling better & heal. Iím also interested in changing jobs, Iím just not sure if the timing is right. I donít want to take to much on at once if Iím looking at a very difficult road ahead of me.

[This message edited by TheThunderRolls at 7:43 AM, January 6th (Wednesday)]

TwoDozen posted 1/6/2021 08:00 AM

@TTR

Iíve been in IC since March last year, at that time I was planning on checking out. I no longer felt I wanted to check out within a few months (maybe 6 sessions)

I continued around once month and still go

I have a very good opinion of myself, my capabilities and my abilities possibly more so than I did before her A

Am I healed, no absolutely not, I am still only just coming to terms with the fact that not everybody thinks like me, acts like me. Sure I knew there were dishonest people in the world but itís a huge shock to find one who youíve shared your life with for 24 years.

I am currently going in for a ďcheck up and tuneĒ every 6 weeks or so. Iím doing okay but Iíll never be the same person I was.

Word of warning !! They will not decide for you if you should stay or leave. I wish they would !!


Hope that helps.

TheThunderRolls posted 1/6/2021 08:20 AM

Thank you, TwoDozen- I donít want IC to determine that for me. I want to come to that realization on my own. Iím interested on what direction my marriage will go in and if I will come to the conclusion of if itís worth trying to save my marriage or if I deserve better.

Thatís not the top reason Iím going though. I have a lot of FOO issues I need to dig into, a lot of things about myself I want to fix, in fact I have a whole laundry list. I want to get my self worth and self esteem back. Iíve had this issue since childhood. I want to be happy with myself and not rely on someone elseís moods or thoughts of me to determine how I feel about myself or determine if itís a good day based on that,

One of my biggest flaws is that Iím very motivated at first then someone in the middle my plans collapse, Iím get unmotivated and want to give up. I do not want IC to be one of those things.

I watched a sermon the other night, a lot of people are 20s settling for 3s. We stay with a person based on how we feel about ourselves. The pastor said we can either have a period of pain, heal and be happy or stay with someone where we will be unhappy and in pain for the rest of our life. He said to pick your pain. I need to work on figuring out a lot of things about myself. WH can either shape up or get out.

I was so upset the other week I could not pick myself up off the floor. I never want to experience that ever again. It was pathetic.

TheThunderRolls posted 1/7/2021 08:04 AM

Iím feeling very anxious again today. My first IC appt is tomorrow & while Iím excited to start, Iím also very nervous. I want to ask her about EMDR therapy for not just the cheating but things that have happened in childhood. The thought of things getting worse before it gets better is scary. I know I canít rush the process, I just wanted to be healed already.

EllieKMAS posted 1/7/2021 09:34 AM

Look at it this way...

When you go to do a really good cleaning/reorganizing, you dump everything out onto the floor. That's so you can go through it and discard the old stuff and better organize the things you will keep. It looks like a giant mess at the beginning but there's method to it.

It's kinda the same with therapy (to me). You shake everything out so you can get things reorganized and discard things that no longer serve you.

It's okay to feel anxious.

TheThunderRolls posted 1/7/2021 09:49 AM

Ellie- Thank you for validating my feelings and for all of the guidance and wisdom you have provided along the way. It truly helps.

I try to talk to WH about my feelings & it turns into some sort of lecture disguised as advice. I know I need to stop relying on him. DD (15) is getting frustrated with me because she keep telling me to wake up & realize WH isnít going to change. She does not know about the cheating but has seen a decline in our marriage. I told her to be patient and that Iím getting therapy to sort out my feelings. She will not talk to her dad about anything and I do not bash him to her. I try to derail the conversation because itís not something she should have to try & deal with.

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