SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

All I have to say is, communication!, communication!, communication!, and the book, "Not Just Friends."

Most of the advice I'm reading here - talk to her, consequences, etc - I would agree with, if this were a long weekend. It's not. It is 10 days - that is a very long time to be drinking, dancing, flirting with the same man night after night because he's staying at the same hotel, hearing the other girls discuss last night's 'conquest', being left alone with a man while her roommates are 'busy' with his friends, etc. It's a VERY long time.

Regarding consequences, the majority of members here have said at some point 'if you ever cheat, it's over', or that the BS would cheat too, or some kind of consequence was said. That doesn't create fidelity, it creates lies to cover up infidelity.

I can say this - in your shoes, with a spouse that has some very relaxed opinions on sex, and does not consider it a 'special' act between two people - I would tell my spouse that if they go on this vacation, there will be problems, and that she should probably decide if this 10 day trip is worth changing the state of your current marriage due to the forever wondering if cheating occurred.

I would strongly encourage her NOT to go.

Good luck. Tough one.

Good points painfulpast, but as I said in earlier posts, trying to stop her going is not going to be an easy option. She'll resent that and if she really wants a ONS, she'll just try harder somewhere else, like home. A v good looking woman like her wouldn't find it hard

Also, I'm convinced that if our chat comes to little and she does cheat, I will find out. With the 3 other girls knowing she has it's bound to creep out somehow, so think she knows that and will tell. As the other post said, communicate a lot and that is what's going to happen. But your points about it being 10 days make me think

Have finally spoken to me wife about this trip. Did it in bed with her the other night, and told her to tell me the truth and not just what I wanted to hear.

Started by saying that I thought it was a bit silly of the b/f of the girl who pulled out being jealous, and I wouldn’t be so dumb as I trusted my W, even though she is stunning, flirty and a man magnet (I was trying to keep the conversation quite light hearted). She said “Absolutely, no chance of me straying there, even if I meet a hot guy” Explained that even if she had the desire to stray, the approach of the other girls to sex, such as through clubbing, drinking, etc she found very “unsexy” and wouldn’t appeal even if she was single.

Which is fine, but still doesn’t answer the question of her straying long term. Need to talk to her about attitudes to ONS later, but thought best left until after her holiday. If we talk too much about cheating before the holiday, might put thoughts into her head again about cheating during the holiday.

What do people think? Bring the whole thing into the open now, or wait until after she comes back?

I think no married woman has any business going away for 10 days without her husband. Who cares if she resents you? What are you going to do if she cheats?

Don't allow it - simple.

"Even if I met a hot guy" - alarm bells would be ringing for me.

Why would she even meet anyone of the opposite sex ?

[This message edited by mozzchops at 4:36 AM, June 10th (Tuesday)]

Norwich man...

After reading your thread I think you may need to ask yourself

'What happens to our M is she has a ONS while away?'

Clearly, she has different views on sex to you. A ONS is "ok" as there are no emotions

By comparison, is a series of encounters with OM ok if she does not love him. Where do you draw the line.

Maybe you both need to re-address your boundaries in terms of 'lad trips' and 'girl trips' ??

10 days is a long time and considering she will be frequently hit on by good-looking guys I feel you need to say more.

I think you need to stress that you have been faithful all your married life and you will not accept adultery.

Trouble is that she may be weighing the consequences. What will you do if she does cheat? She reasons that you will not end the marriage; you will sulk and be temporarily angry, but that she will 'bring you around with some hot sex' and the whole matter will fade into the past. Probably tell you the ONS's were not very good.

I think your wife intends to cheat if the right guy appears. Won't be just anybody; he will need to be a classy guy and good-looking. Right now she doesn't know whether he will put in an appearance, but if he does then she will have sex with him and deal with you later. After all if she is so hot you won't take much persuading to forgive. I have known many women from my workplace who have gone on holiday with the 'girls'. Most of them intended to to have some exciting sex after enduring boring marital relations.

You are failing to present her with harsh consequences for her impending betrayal. She knows you won't like it, but she also knows you will get over it eventually; worth the risk she feels. She is presently telling you she will not cheat to head off serious talk about this issue. Then she will decide what she wants when she is in Ibiza. What she doesn't want to hear is threats about possible repercussions and the damage her affair will cause.

So if you want to head off her possible betrayal you have to present her with devastating consequences - before she leaves. She has to believe that her adultery would change the marriage, and your love and affection, in a lasting way. Presently you being flippant and humorous; that not going to get the message across. Time is running out Norwichman; quit the joking around and start talking seriously about how her impending fuckfest is going to change your relationship in an unpleasant way. She thinks its harmless fun; its up to you to convince her it isn't.

Her age makes her even MORE attractive-really! It's all the rage now. In my 40's and I was hit on by a lot of guys in their 20's-my son's age

The fact that she's so flippant about cheating (ONS is cheating to me) is disturbing. I don't quite understand your -hesitancy?- to say something

Thanks for your post OK now. You do touch a nerve in that I probably would not end the marriage over a ONS, despite the angst I would feel. However if it was anything more, like keeping in contact with the guy, then that would very quickly lead to possible separation and divorce. I’d also feel strongly about a non-sex emotional affair as the thought of her getting close emotionally to a guy fills with me with as much dismay as her sharing a bed with a guy. But of course if I tell her about my boundaries, it gives her the green light to have a ONS. However, following our earlier chat and some thinking on my part, I do feel that she will not stray in Ibiza. Don’t know why, it’s just a gut feeling, it’s too “obvious” and wife doesn’t do “obvious”. However, I do think she would if tempted and has said as much in the past when a group of us discussed her married friends ONS and she defended it. This friend met a guy on a training course and never kept in touch with him after. My wife felt this was OK and said that she said that the thrill of a new guy and doing something you shouldn’t must have been fun for her friend, especially as meeting someone on a training course was unexpected. Also that people doing it a few times in a marriage shouldn’t cause problems in a strong marriage with no history of jealousy. Disappointingly, she was not the only person at that discussion who defended her friend, which suggests her views may not be that uncommon. I kept quiet, because as you have probably worked out by now I’m not a person happy with confrontation and ultimatums. Which is a bit of a change as when we first met I was a bit of an alpha male, 6ft 2in 16st Rugby playing guy that really fitted her view then as to what a “man” should be. But I’ve mellowed a lot over the years and I think it’s because of our kids. Maybe too much, but I still intend to discuss this more with her after the holiday, and yes, this will include the consequences on our marriage and my subsequent feelings for her. I know this sounds weak, me putting it off, but it’s how I feel at the moment

I’m not a person happy with confrontation and ultimatums.

Guess what the #1 predictor of divorce is? Conflict avoidance

trumanshow

Agreed, but I'm not going to avoid it completely, just do it after the hol

yep, it sounds weak.

Norwich - I think she is telling you exactly what you want to hear. I do NOT think she means any of it.

I guess you have said your peace, and being unwilling to make her cancel, or go with her, or laying down hard consequences the best you can do it prepare for the fallout when it happens. Your wifes attitude screams of not if it will happen but when it will happen.

I would urge you to get a really good book and spend the 10 days she is gone focusing on yourself. Get strong for you. Codependent no more is the book. You are conflict avoidant, and so scared of losing her that you can't even ask for what is an accepted expectation of Marriage.

Good Luck.

Norwichman, if a few carefully chosen words now can head off adultery, won't you and the marriage be much better off?

Conflict avoidance is nothing more than being timid and insecure; you are afraid of rocking the boat because you can't handle negative emotions and are afraid of the stress they produce.

I suggest you mention to your wife that the trouble with adultery is that it can create an open marriage. Mention that it opens the flood gates to further cheating from both partners. The loyalty is gone; might as well savor further pleasures of the flesh. Once your wife has taken that step into physical union with another man, then she might as well do it again if a suitable candidate comes along. Also she cannot deny you the same right; and so the marriage starts to come apart. Be careful; if you allow your wife to cheat you will rewrite the role of sex in your relationship. It will be redefined as a harmless pleasure and further dalliances will occur.

You might also mention to your wife that grunting, sweating and copulating in a hotel room with another man is hardly romantic. How can she expect you to deliver sweet words, flowers and candlelit dinners after she cheats?

exactly. I really don't understand it.

Since you are afraid to tell her what your boundaries are, she can honestly believe that you are OK with her hooking up with a guy. You haven't had the courage to tell her it's a dealbreaker.

And just because she's ok with it doesn't mean you have to be ok with it. But if you don't say something, she will assume you've talked about it and concur.

you can't be that timid.. really? I mean, she's your wife. You have a right to tell her you don't want her spreading her legs for another man.

[This message edited by mike7 at 7:54 AM, June 11th (Wednesday)]

Ok, wasn't going to go there but I have to ask. Your wife's attitude, her replies to questions seem(at least to me) a very lax attitude toward protecting you or your M. Has she already cheated?

It all resulted from a 4th girl cancelling because her boyfriend didn’t trust her to stay faithful.

Smart boyfriend IMO. I've seen more stories from guys on here about these girls trips and what can happen than I care to ever see!

With the casual attitudes perpetuated by Hollywood and society about affairs these days trips like these are quite dangerous to relationships IMO. If it was 3 happily married women she was going with then I would be more likely to be OK with it. But, I wouldn't allow it under the current circumstances.

My wife felt this was OK and said that she said that the thrill of a new guy and doing something you shouldn’t must have been fun for her friend, especially as meeting someone on a training course was unexpected.

Your wife is telling you her fantasies. Not all people live their fantasies out.

Your wife is practically telling you she is okay with this sort of thing.

You and her need to do a hell of a lot of talking about this.

What does your wife think about the other girls husband for making her back out?

I think you & your wife need to have a heart to heart, serious talk about fidelity in your M and what it means to both of you.

If you are really OK with her having a ONS, then put it out there! I mean you sound like you wouldn't be too bothered by that. But, I think, deep down, you would be wounded. No one really knows how they will react until they have to deal with it. Prior to my H's A I would have said it was a deal breaker - yet here we are still married.

Infidelity in any context doesn't belong in a M. Even those with open M's have guidelines, rules and boundaries and agree to them. There are people here, in open M's, that have been betrayed.

So if you wait until after the trip to have this discussion, she may not tell you 'cause "Oh crap! He really isn't ok with this!" If you have the discussion now and tell her you won't leave her if she has a ONS (in theory so she will confess to you) what have you gained? What have you lost?

You need to be honest with yourself and with her before she departs on this trip. She needs to understand there are boundaries in a M. Then if she chooses to violate those boundaries, you have set the ground rules for dealing with the aftermath.