SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I have been married for 10 years and known my wife for 13 years. We have 3 boys ages 10, 7 and 5. I discovered my wife was having an affair with her best friends husband since Dec 3 2015. I am feeling a lot better about myself and life since my initial discovery but continue to have bouts of complete sorrow and anger. I love my wife deeply. My wife was in the middle of the affair and as she put it 'I discovered it when things were really good between her and him'. We followed through with a planned family holiday from May 14-23 on her insistence that she just wanted to have a good time with me! I went along with it for the benefit of the kids and to see where her head was at. We did manage to have some good times on the holiday but I had strong resentiment towards her and sadness that I could not hold back. It became clear during the holiday that she wasn't 100% committed to our marriage and on the last day I asked her to move out when we got home. She spent one night in a hotel and said the next day that she was now 100% and that she couldn't stand being away from the family. She has been sleeping in the spare room every since. My wife has made strong gestures towards me albeit with strong guidance from me that she initially resisted. She ended her relationship with him on May 10 (although it was done inappropriately and given the sense that the door was still open on the relationship). She has since shared some text messages with him in secret on non sexual topics and spoke to him once to let him know his exwife (my wifes best friend) knows about the affair. She ended her relationship with her best friend, her AP's wife (Her best friend ended up separating from my wife's AP while the affair was going on for other indirect reasons). The best friend unfortunately learned about the affair ( as it was our intent not to let her know, but it's hard to end a relationship without a solid reason). I was not prepared to be married to my wife if the ex wife of her AP was still in her life and she continued the lie. The best friend then told everyone in her and my wifes social circle about the affair, which I believe has helped change my wife's perspective on her family. My wife has changed her cell # and her email address. She has also gradually become a bit more compassionate to the pain she has caused me as well as telling me that she loves me. Strangely we have been having fantastic sex. My biggest challenge with moving forward is that her diary had all the details of their sexual encounters and I read the whole thing on May 9. The details included things that she had never done or said to me. She let him ejaculate in her face. She let him cum in her mouth. She gave him repeated BJ'S. She told him over and over again that he had the perfect penis. She let him cum inside of her and do positions we never did. Shes confirmed all of this to be true and that she really liked his body and was doing these things cause he asked her to and she wanted to please him and that she liked him a lot. There's a lot more that can be said. My question is for anyone that's been in a similar situation and decided to stay in their marriage can you get to a spot where the knowledge of the details fade and you no longer have resentment for your wife because she shared different sexual experiences with her AP compared with you? How did you process the details? Is this worth fighting for? If you haven't been in a similar situation or chose not to have a long fight for your marriage I'd appreciate you withholding any advice you may have as your experience will not be similar to my long road ahead.

Hi bedman sorry u found urself here, im only new to this myself, i think the only good advice i can give is to start councelling so you can get help processing ur thoughts, & secondly see if ur ww is willing ti do marriage counceling with u.

I can say time, & that time depends on how ur healing, does eventually lessen ur thoughts, they may never completley disappear but can get less painful.

Im sure some other members will b along to give u sime great advice. There us alot of that & support in this group. Take care.

[This message edited by 1brokengirl at 2:05 AM, June 13th (Monday)]

I'm so sorry. I haven't been married so I haven't exactly been in your site but I have felt the pain of infidelity with my ex fiance. The pain was the worst and I never even got the details. I didn't want to know. I left him with no second chance because of the resentment and the level of deception and disrespect that I think it takes to do this to someone you love.

I think before you think about reconciling you need to heal yourself first. She's a coward - changing her number and email address. Did she ever apologize to her best friend or did she just ignore her? She should not have been in contact with him after you found out.

Others will come along to give you better advice than I can.

As per the object of your question, that's quite personal, I think.

I wouldn't be persuaded to try to salvage something like this if they paid me to do nothing else for the rest of my life.

In my book someone that does things with/to their AP they never did with/to you or accepted that their AP do something to them they never let you do, quite simply was never in love with you as much as they were/are to the AP. Period. Nothing to discuss IMO.

I Know some of the posters on this site tried R under these circumstances anyway, so maybe they will be able to help you.

Anyway I think you have much worse problems here:

1. You found out on December and she ended things with AP on May 10? So she spent six months banging the AP under your nose, while living with you? Am I reading this right?

2. You decide to go through with a family holiday, you read her diary on May 9, she breaks up with AP on Mau 10, and the holidy begins on May 14. This timeline sounds quite suspicious, don't you think?

3. Not only you helped her hide her dirty secrets to OMW/her best friend. You had a problem with APs wife being still in her life but are ok with her still talking texting and speaking to AP. Really? Are you serious?

OP, I think that saying you have been way too much understanding is an enormous understatement.

I know that you'll be soon joined by people telling you that you can Reconcile from anything, but frankly you're wasting your time with this one, IMO.

She's way too entitled and you're handling things in a way that makes her even more entitled. My opinion is that she'll go on banging her AP on and off or anyone who strikes her fancy until you call it quits, but that's my opinion and this is your life and your decision to make. Good luck.

I saw some red flags in your first message that need to be dealt with prior to understanding if you can forgive/forget the images/diary.

I see so many attempts by you and her to rug sweep what happened. Family Vacation shortly after DD, She was continuing her relationship with her BF?...but the biggest red flags are her leaving the door open with the OM, the several times she had had contact with him since DD.

My point is that it's not possible to forgive/forget and move on by rug sweeping all the bad stuff away. You will forever question how she could have done this and if she will again. Also, she still doesn't sound 100% in... this could be because she still has contact with OM. You can't forgive/forget everything if you are still questioning if it's still going on.

Think about what ACTIONS she has taken (not things she has said) on her own (not things you have told her to do) to save the marriage.

I am sorry what happened to you. I know that it hurts a lot and that maybe because of that you can't thing clearly right now. But, it seems to me that you are not taking seriously what happened and that you wife is not taking it seriously either. If she wants to stay married with you she should be doing a lot of things:

- cut all relationship with the AP

- Show true remorse for her actions.

- Look for counseling (couples of just for herself) to understand why she did what she did.

- She must know she broke your trust and that now you don't trust her anymore. So she must accet to any of your questions and show you her phone records, internet, etc etc.

It seems to me that she is inlove with h im, but that it isd easy for her to stay by your side. She has not faced the consecuences of her actions. And you are being TOO willing toa ccept the fact. I think you need counseling too because no man in your position will act as you did.

Are you having sex with her? Are you crazy?

After what she did? Really? Is this all that matters to you? She wored herself to another man and you take her back to your bed just like that?

She sounds like a very dangerous cheater. It seems she can manipulate you at her will. Man up and do what you have to do to save your marriage. Or just file in for divorce. But what you are doing now is heading to being cheated again.

Sounds like your WW is going through the motions with you. Without much detail I'm going to say that she has more regret than remorse. Lack of true remorse is a slow death to your M because it almost always guarantees a reoccurrence of the A or another one altogether. Aside from the OBS exposing the A what consequences has she been exposed to ? What have YOU demanded in order for her to receive the gift of R ? What boundaries are in place and more importantly what are you willing to do if she crosses them ? She has already made contact behind your back, what makes you think the A is actually over ? Action = Consequence, without consequence she has zero motivation to end her behaviors. I suggest you seek out some individual therapy and demand she do the same. After a bit of IC you can seek out joint MC if you feel it will help. Right now she's still driving the bus, its time to push her aside and take control of the situation yourself. Welcome and best of luck, please keep posting and reading.

a bit more compassionate

This is the killer for the long road ahead.

You cannot reconcile unless your wayward wife is remorseful. She is not remorseful. She regrets that she got caught.

The long road ahead is about you healing and her digging deep to find the exact cause she cheated on you, the children, the marriage, and herself. Her choice hurt you, hurt the children, and destroyed the marriage. It takes a very long time for this to take place. Years. 2-5 is standard wisdom for the recovery and rebuilding of the destroyed marriage.

You cannot heal while she is still in the affair. Any contact with the other man is her still in the affair. Contact=affair. There must be absolute (from this second and the rest of your relationship with your wife) No Contact with the other man.

You cannot reconcile if you rugsweep and minimize the damage. It is in your head. You can facade daily interaction, pretend all is well with the occasional hiccup, not bring it up, only bring it up on your wife's terms, or fantasize that you are over it. You will not be over it. It will eat you up for years if you follow this route. The long road ahead will kill whatever is left of any marriage.

She must, to facilitate a real reconciliation, do what you need to heal. She must be transparent (you have total access to her phone, email, whereabouts, everything). She must acknowledge your pain whenever you feel it, and offer real support for the damage she caused (a "bit" wont cut it if you want real reconciliation). She must not get defensive when you bring up the affair and instead offer support and answer all questions even if it is the same question over and over. This is how she shows real remorse. Anything short of this is not remorse.

The only way for your mind movies to fade is through the rebuilding of trust in her and her constantly demonstrating through actions that she is devoted to the marriage and the reconciliation.

Two to five years is the standard wisdom here. There are many successful reconciliations on this site- and the commonality of how it works is very consistent.

You must set firm boundaries. You must have solid consequences for your wayward wife if she crosses those boundaries. You must demand that your needs are met- first- before any thing else is possible.

You must take charge. It is the only way your long road ahead will deliver a sliver of the outcome you want at the moment.

Your marriage has already been destroyed. Building a new one will be difficult. It is a marathon and not a spring (SI wisdom). However, if your wife cannot or will not do the things you require for this, then reconciliation is a fools errand.

As far as fighting for a marriage and still ending in D-- There are very very (needed an extra qualifier there) few people on this site that did not fight for their marriage. What those who ended up divorced learned is you cannot save the marriage alone, you cannot make the other person do the right things, you cannot save it if there is not true remorse.

It is only worth fighting for if she demonstrates through her actions that she is remorseful and in for the long haul.

Welcome. Glad you found us. Cuz you need us. I'm going to be more blunt with you because you're not really just finding out.

Damn.....she is incredibly selfish and self-centered. And you are an enabler of her behavior. What she's doing is pretty much typical affair behavior (it's not over FYI) but you have tolerated a complete exhibit of disrespect. I think you might have some co-dependency issues and that's part of why you're here, 6 months later, with a WW who away with anything she wants.

Does she work? Are you in IC? Is she? Don't even bother with MC right now.

You need to read the entire Healing Library!

You are in for a long road. This is a marathon, whatever you decide to do, and however long it takes you to decide. Be patient with yourself. You are legitimately in trauma. For real.

Focus on yourself. Don't drink right now. Eat. Go to the dr if you need help sleeping.

R is possible, but only if the real work gets done. No rug-sweeping.

Your WW needs to read two very short books (100 pages). First, "Who Will You Become?" Then, "How to Help Your Spouse..."

http://www.lindajmacdonald.com/Mini-Books.html

You cannot R on your own. Spend time in our "Healing Library" top left yellow box link.

Keep posting. There can be great advice here from folks who care

Im new to this site to and going through my second betrayal with my wife.

The first Affair 2010. I new too many details of both of them ,I saw too many pictures and videos shared and read to much..

I am still haunted by them ,not daily but yes weekly ,Im still triggered by simple details and sometimes it still angers me inside.

I forgave and we worked through the issues (stumbled) and all seems fine. I got her help for a major mental issues and childhood abuse.

She has just been caught again this time a married couples play toy. And now all the past has flooded back 10 fold and I have the new issues to deal with... She may never change her spots thats the risk you take ,But I am now a believer in once a cheater always a cheater .

Thanks for the many responses everyone. There seems to a theme that I am not respecting myself at this stage of recovery. I need to clarify a few things. The affair started Dec 3, DD was May 9. After reading endlessly about affairs i said she should be changing hrr cell # and email. She was resistant but allowed me to do it. She has often saI'd since that she is trying to save the marriage 'look I changed my cell and email, I ended my friendship with my best friend..... didnt i'. My wife does not communicate her emotions well and never has and she does not want to really talk about the affair. I realize this is not an excuse. On my insistence she has answered my questions about the affair. I often get angry with her when she does respond and she says my anger scares her and pushes her away. She says she doesn't think I will ever get over the affair and she would understand if I ended the marriage. That she is a bad person and i dont deserve to have her in my life. I deserve some one that can do what i need to heal. It was my idea that the details might not be shared with the AP's wife as she is innocent to my wife's actions and if we could avoid hurting her we should. My wife and I are in IC and we are also in MC. She appears to genuinely want to do the counselling. I do want to talk about the affair all the time to understand what happened which is stressful to her. She says she never loved him and always loved me. She says she never wanted to end our marriage. At the same time she is not very remorseful. I only get a sorry from her after I get angry. It's not a true sorry. Another important part to this is that she has another best friend who I considered a friend also that knew all the details of the affair as it was happening and as I put it was a cheer leader, accessory in the affair. My wife continues to maintain this relationship despite her knowing my sensitivities to it and that she is a huge trigger for me. I have not asked her to end the relationship though she knows that is what I want. She is going out to a concert with her tonight and didn't ask me how I felt about it cause this has been planned for months. She isn't doing a good job thinking about my feelings.

I am sorry you are here. First off , I would delve into why she lacks remorse . It took a while for my wife to "get it".

Somehow she blamed me for a small part of the affair. Eventually she came to understand that I had no responsibility in her cheating,but I did have responsibility in my side of the marriage . She had so many options that did not include cheating.

Secondly I would ask our wife to drop anyone who is not a friend of the marriage . Her other friend clearly is not. Certainly no concert with her.

If they are in any contact the affair will continue.

If that is the case full exposure will be needed.

You need to be firm or she'll continue to do what she wants.

Cheaters lie , hide and deny as you've found. A lot!!!!

No remourse = no reconciliation

Contact with toxic friends = a repeat of what she's been doing.

Sorry man you need the truth!!!!

[This message edited by Marc878 at 10:53 AM, June 13th (Monday)]

Hi bedman. Very sorry you find yourself on SI but you have come to the right place.

I agree with much of what Stronger posted. I believe what you are seeing is regret for getting caught. Not true remorse. Let me explain a bit about my own story as I found out and read the exact same detaisl you did. But I'm going to come at this with a slightly different perspective that you may not have thought of before.

Yup. I read through that God awful diary. Every detail about what they did sexually. Special occasions, sex sessions and details of those at her sister's house, sex sessions and details of those at "friends" houses. I got to read about what her AP tasted like, size description, how good he was in bed, positions. I also got to read about how good she thought she was as well. I've talked about this in IC (independent counseling). It's tough to differentiate between what's real and what is fantasy. So much of an A, and what is written about them, are actually not true. Not necessarily what they did, but how good it actually was.

Ready for it? This is not my wife I'm talking about but my mother. I am what you would call a BC (betrayed child). I was 16 (now 42) when I read that diary. There was even more in there but I don't want to get too far off track as that's a whole other separate discussion. But my mother brought her affair into our house in many ways. Her diary was just one. My younger brother who was 13 at the time found it first and then left it out as he didn't know what to do with it. I read the diary next and was the one that reacted and exposed. I sat my father down and told him what my mother was up to. He insisted on reading that diary cover to cover as well. I watched the life drain out of him as he read it. Page after page. I can honestly say that the diary marks a point in my life and I can refer to parts of my life as pre diary and post diary.

For the next 5-6 years I watched my father do everything wrong. He did what's called the "pick me" dance for years. After that initial confrontation where he let her have it, he then spoiled her. Bought gifts, flowers, trips for just the two of them, remodeled the house for her, anything he could do to "win her back". Guess what? She abused the shit out of him and us as a family for that matter. Dday 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7... too many to count. My mother refused to stop seeing her AP and guess who caught her each and every time? Yup. Myself. I'm also assuming my brother. And each time I had to tell my father.

Point is, and from a different perspective that you may not see, is that your wife brought the A into your family's house and in more ways than one. Not only is what she documented in her diary one way the kids could find out, or texts as a few other BC here have found, but she forever changed the environment in your household with her behavior. She changed the dynamic between the two of you which your kids do pick up on regardless if they know about the A or not. Her selfishness and time with AP takes away from time with the family. Trust me I know my mother chose AP over the rest of us. Repeatedly. Because she could and wanted to.

Does she still have that diary? There are a couple of aspects that I have discussed in IC about that diary. She doesn't write such salacious details for no reason. Those details are meant to be read. Otherwise why write then and increase chances of getting caught. They are meant to be read by herself. In that sense the diary is a trophy. More accurately it's a direct connection to her AP. She gets to keep reliving her experiences over and over by reading what she wrote. Not sure if this would be your case, but in my father's case the diary was a weapon in two ways. She was pissed at my father and that was quite clear in her writing. It was a way for her to communicate indirectly just how pissed and entitled she was. Entitlement. Further, it was a way for her to emasculate him. I may not have know that word as a 16yo kid, but I certainly got to see the effects and I understood probably how that felt to my father. The diary needs to be burned if it's still around to break that connection to what she has in there.

The point of all this is not only did she cheat on you, but she cheated on the whole family. She deliberately brought the A into your house without thinking of any of the repercussions to the rest of the family, or maybe she did and just discarded the repercussions. In my book, and I'm only scratching the surface here, that makes her a shitty mother in addition to being a shitty wife.

At this point, what you are most likely getting is regret for being caught from your WW and not true remorse. True remorse often doesn't come until later and most of the time not at all. Here I am 27 years after my mother's A and she's still blame shifting and refuses to take any responsibility for it. My father started an A of his own and D her 6 years later. As far as I know the A went on the entire time and even afterwards. Her AP is now divorced with more time on his hands. How do you know that this has not gone underground and she is placating you? Especially where you have to give her all the direction on how to help you.

I think it's a bit early to determine which course you want to take as far as R or D. But I would start with consequences for her actions which consists of several things.

First, if you haven't already, consult with a lawyer. You need to educate yourself on the laws of your state for both R or D as they both could have different impacts on you. As your situation continues to unfold you will be able to make educated decisions regarding finances, living arrangements, the kids, etc. Also, seeing a lawyer will take away some of the fear of the unknown.

Next, gently here, you both need to get tested for STDs asap. Too many come through here only to find out that they have something later. This is for your health and a must step.

Exposure. You said the OBS who was already getting divorced knows. What about friends and family. The more people that know, that makes it that much harder to take underground. I'm all for exposure because in our situation, I don't think there was enough of it to put an end to things. However, if you do open that door, you can't close it. Requires some thought here on your part.

Your kids probably know more than you think they do. Most of us here who have a BC background with also being a BS (betrayed spouse) or just a BC did. Even if they don't know, their environment is forever changed and what you do with that environment is what matters. Our house turned toxic on many levels after dday. Though to the outside world everything was fine. My father couldn't see past his own pain to see what was going on with my brother and I. My mother was too wrapped up in her A to give a shit about anything else. So what about notifying your kids counselors at school to keep an eye on them. Or possibly getting recommendations for child psychologists that can help you determine their needs? Several here have taken those steps has helped their situations.

What about IC for your WW. Regardless if D or R, she is not a safe person for anyone. Why would she do this to you, jeopardize her family's well being, and most importantly to herself? All affairs have at least two things in common. Your WW had to be selfish and have poor boundaries to do what she did in the first place? Why? Not for you to answer but for her to dig deep and work on herself.

Has an NC (no contact) message been sent?

Those are starting points but there is more. Here are also some links to get you started on SI. You can find most of the abbreviations here in the upper left corner in the Healing Library. Please check that section out.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/library.asp

Read up on the 180 so that you can decide if you want to use it later. It is designed for you to detach and can be found under BS FAQ here:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

And more 180 info under the target thread here:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=232785

I would also recommend reading these target threads in the Just Found Out forum:

Tactical Primer

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=235051

Great Posts for Newbies to Read

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=361740

Boundaries and Consequences 101 for all new BS

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=385631

Before You Say Reconcile...

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=406548

Before you say reconcile...Recover!

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=561390

For the newly betrayed

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=535178

For the foggy, unremorseful, cake eaters:

20/20 Hindsight: What I should have done when I J F O

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=446349

Codependency in the Marriage: A BS’s common mistake

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=408443

My 10,000th post - You Are Going To Be Ok

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=502703

Another Great Post for Newbies to read

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=532395

Please read these as well as prep for any sort of upcoming confrontation that you may have with your WS:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/no_contact.asp

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/boundaries.asp

Calling all BSs...:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=514479

Choosing an IC/MC:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=544948

Very sorry you are here bedman. Keep reading. Keep posting. We are here for you.

yop

Hi bedman. Sorry you had to find the community. From your posts, I must say that I see a lot of red flags from your WW's behavior.

Your world has be nuked by her actions. You do not need to be in any rush to make decisions about your future. You can love your wife all you want, but you can't love her enough for the both of you. She has to love you in return, and love is demonstrated by actions, not words. I am not talking about the sexual stuff here. You need to focus on yourself for now, and start working on healing. Your wife has the option to help you heal or not, but for now, focus on yourself.

What she said to you after discovery, about how good the affair was, in the face of your pain is beyond callous. Her secretly texting the AP for whatever reason after D Day, and keeping in touch with a cheerleader of the A shows you exactly where her head is at right now. It is not in the M. She should be bending over backwards to help you heal, but she is choosing to continue disrespect you. You have no control over that. What you do have control over though is your ability to respect yourself. Set your boundaries and stick to them.

She has often saI'd since that she is trying to save the marriage 'look I changed my cell and email, I ended my friendship with my best friend..... didnt i'.

This type of logic is very telling. She is not doing you a favor by "trying" to save the M. Look, she should be the one bending over backwards to save the M. Put your foot down. Sometimes, in order to save your M, you must be willing to lose it.

The sexual stuff is a really thorny issue. Suffice to say, those resentments you feel will build with time, because now you know for sure that sexually at least, your partner feels you are only worthy of a certain amount where AP was worthy of everything. Only you can decide if you can live with that knowledge. Good luck OP.

Cross posted with you....

She absolutely cannot remain friends with this person. She is not a friend to the marriage. Above I said that my mother would have sex sessions with her AP at friends' houses. Not to make you paranoid, but my mother used the excuse of going here or there with one of her friends and really be meeting up with her AP. ESPECIALLY AFTER DDAY!!!! When I was 17 and could drive, those excuses didn't pass the sniff test with me so I drove by my aunt's house who she said she was out with for the night. Yup. Her and AP's car were parked in her driveway. "Hey dad, I have something to tell you..." Good times.

My wife does not communicate her emotions well and never has and she does not want to really talk about the affair.

she says my anger scares her and pushes her away

Code for she doesn't want to look at her shit or face you. If she was truly remorseful not only would she face your anger, but she would do what she could to work with you. Instead this says she wants to rug sweep and move on. Your WW needs to face some consequences and facing your anger is one of them.

That she is a bad person and i dont deserve to have her in my life.

A cop out and is exactly the type of attitude that got her into this mess to begin with. Self esteem issues, poor coping mechanisms, on and on here. Good to hear that she's in IC as she really needs to work on this stuff. But is she honest in IC or is she rug sweeping there too?

She says she never loved him and always loved me. She says she never wanted to end our marriage. At the same time she is not very remorseful. I only get a sorry from her after I get angry.

My mother said the same things. Never stopped her and she never changed. Hopefully your WW will come around to some true remorse. Hopefully she will realize that she betrayed herself just as much as she did the rest of you. It's early still. But I have to say there are not a lot of positive signs here.

yop

can you get to a spot where the knowledge of the details fade and you no longer have resentment for your wife

It's possible, but it takes a long time and a lot of hard work by both spouses. It is incredibly difficult and many betrayed spouses here have struggled with it -- either with the thoughts of what might have happened or with the knowledge of exactly what did happen.

My personal experience is that knowing details of things that were done that were never part of the marriage are the things that stick around the longest. I've done my share of reading, IC (individual counseling), meds and EMDR treatment for the PTSD-induced memories. Even after all that, at 4+ years down the road, I still can have times that I struggle with the knowledge of what she did.

While that answers what you asked, this is about much, much more than the sexual details. It is about trust, love and respect. Without the entire package, you can't reach reconciliation. Right now, your wife still is completely self-centered, manipulative and disrespectful/unloving towards you...

- She didn't like the consequences of being kicked out, so claimed to be "100%" to get back home.

- She didn't implement NC (no contact) correctly and left the door open for the OM

- She only gives a half-hearted "sorry" after you become angry. And then she tries to blame your anger for pushing her away (e.g. she wants you to rugsweep everything).

- She takes advantage of a nice, family vacation only to still be sitting on the fence about you or the AP.

- She thinks it is OK to maintain a friendship with someone who encouraged the affair.

- She claims she never loved the OM and always loved you. That's a lie to placate you because if she loved you, she wouldn't have had the affair.

- While it is true that she never wanted to end your marriage (and still is holding on to it), this is pure manipulation. She wants to hold on to her marriage/family, but on her own terms. She wanted the OM and you. She wants her affair-cheerleading friend and you. It is selfish and disrespectful.

You can't "fight for" this all by yourself.

Her actions are very, very clear. She is trying to hold on to you and the kids, but isn't remorseful for what happened. In fact, she is still the same selfish, controlling, manipulative person that she was while the affair was going on. And she is getting away with it (broken NC, back in the house, going out with a toxic friend, etc.). This is where the battle line needs to be drawn.

You NEED to be loved and respected. Those are your boundaries. Anything less is absolute poison to you. Your wife is actively walking all over your boundaries and you are focused on whether you'll be able to rugsweep her sexual activities. You're only setting yourself up for more pain. My advice is...

1. You need to understand why you are willing to tolerate your wife's ongoing emotional and psychological abuse. Address it in IC. Pick up "No More Mr. Nice Guy" (in book form or free PDF online) to see if it resonates with you.

2. Enforce your boundary of being loved/respected starting right now. That means no more breaking of NC by your wife. Her affair-cheerleading friend is history. NOW. If she goes to the concert or ever contacts the OM again, she gets divorce papers and her clothes in bags on the front step.

3. Your wife shows real remorse and empathy. She is so self-centered that she simply isn't currently capable of either. This is something she needs to WANT to work on in IC and implement in her life. Her actions currently are indicating that she'd rather just smooth things over on the surface, but not really change.

4. Without #1-3, rebuilding your marriage doesn't stand a chance and trying to work through the sexual details won't matter a bit.

[This message edited by Crushed7 at 11:56 AM, June 13th (Monday)]

Been where you are at and knew enough details to haunt a person for a lifetime. Yes, I decided to stay with my FWH but it has not been easy.

You asked if you can get beyond the betrayal.

Short answer is yes but it is one long, ugly, hard, scary road. I say this almost 5 years later.

You can never unknow what you read in her diary. Plan on those images playing on repeat over and over again for years. YEARS.

You have to go through this to get through it. And you will have love, hate, anger, resentment, hope, fear, defeat, surge through your body all at the same time and then one at a time. Triggers will come out of nowhere and you won't even know how or why they appeared. There will be nothing rational about your feelings and that lack of control is unmanageable at times.

It is still very new to you. Please don't rush toward R. Your posts describe a non remorseful WW. She is putting the blame on you and your are allowing it.

Please head up to the Healing Library in the upper left hand corner and read about the 180*.

You need to try to start to detach unless she truly starts to get what she's done.

I am sorry you and your family are dealing with this.

Keep reading, be open to what folks here have to say and know that you are more than an option.

[This message edited by 1Faith at 11:54 AM, June 13th (Monday)]

sir, please read the tactical primer. it will help you. the one thing you said you only wanted responses from people who have to deal with the mind movies. some people have not read texts or seen videos but they are dealing with the awful trama too. please take all the advice you are given because each person is coming from a sincere place. i have had tough advice too and i took it and deal what i could. LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN.

You will learn that you are trying to nice her back. dont do it. she wont respect you.

someone said you should not have sex with her because it is unsafe - the sex is great its called hysterical bonding - or hyper sexuality. it can be a good way to get back in touch with one another but before you get too caught up in the sex - take an STD test make her do the same. i have not read all of the messages so im not sure if someone already told you to do this

she has to give you the narrative of what happened. it will be painful for her to share but it will help you to not to have so many questions in your mind

sending hugs to you. dont give up on this website you need it