SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I strongly suggest you make her end her friendship with the friend who encouraged ..She Imo is not what you need if you want to save the marriage .

I can say with experience that a friend who condones affairs encourages it and cheers it on even helps will not help save your marriage .. I would make her cut contact with her as well Toxic friends are dangerous and she could be using her to stay in contact with the OM ..She is probably a cheater too or simply likes the idea of your wife being single.. Beware of that one .

Edit I just read your last post.. I hope you all the best and hope the moving on with your life is an amazing one... A person who sabotages a relationship are the cowards as they dont have the guts to do it themselves..

[This message edited by travis1ty at 8:43 AM, June 14th (Tuesday)]

I agree with Manfromlamancha and Alaska77.

From post #1 here, I couldn't figure out what Bedman was trying to save. His wife has no remorse, no empathy, no morals in not only cheating on him but with another married man and her best friend's husband. Bedman should have been on the R board to start with based on the limited scope of what you wanted to hear.

You refused exposure which was a mistake, you took vacations with her as though everything was fine when it wasn't. You hysterically bonded with her when he should have been serving her papers and he tried to nice her back when we all know that doesn't work. Now you realizes that things are over.

Working on yourself is fine if he has a gameplan but Bedman, you haven't had a gameplan from the get go.

I know what I wrote sounded harsh but what is your gameplan now and what is preventing you from going full exposure and protecting other people from this predator ? Protecting his wife (or is it ex now because she was decisive ?) Have you contacted an attorney or are you going to continue to be Plan B ?

I am going to get blasted for being mean in this post and I only wish the best for Bedman but I think it is important for newbies who might read this regarding what works and what doesn't work.

Bedman has to be tough from here on out and rebuild his self esteem.

[This message edited by Western at 9:31 AM, June 14th (Tuesday)]

You have done the right thing. She was looking to sabotage your marriage and maintain her affair. Since his separation from his wife, the possibilities are too great a temptation for a fool.

What you read in her diaries, you can never erase. It fades after 3 to 5 years, when the cheater is fully repentant, remorseful and consistent, but triggers can force it to resurface even after 10. The day she becomes overly flirtatious with another man, at an occasion that's supposed to be happy for you, it all comes back. Any sexual acts she wrote about, that she attempts with you, will trigger you and kill the moment. What she wrote about his sexual organ will impact your self esteem.

Her diary is her trophy; she keeps the affair alive in her mind through the reenactments.

Now that you've set her free, the high from taboo sex is gone, and will change the dynamic of the affair. Now that she's available, his desires for her will fade. When it falls apart, she may come back begging for mercy, so prepare yourself for this.

If you are done with her, you don't need to expose her, they'll find out sooner or later. Preserve your dignity, and place your energy towards yourself and your children.

Stay strong by eating, drinking lots of water and getting sleep. Take small steps, and distract yourself with things you enjoy. The strength you accumulate from what has happened to you, will move you forward with grace and sustenance.

I wish you well.

Anyone who would bash Western's advice isn't paying attention here.

bedman - you have some of the best posters responding to you. Listen to them.

I have told the OBS all of the details. I learned that my wife told her that the affair only started after the OBS had moved out (late April). The true start date is Dec 3.

I am struggling with telling my WW's siblings. If in the unlikely event she wants to R and we can make it work, I think it would be very uncomfortable to have to spend Xmas with them. Is this faulty thinking?

Bedman ..I would ! its her mistake to face why cover it up.

Christmas is one day a year. You can still have Christmas. But how horrible, you MIGHT be uncomfortable.

This is YOUR life. My opinions are for me, you have to be you. But my thought is don't worry about MAYBE being uncomfortable ONE DAY a year.

Is she out of the house?

You stay, she goes ! Stay in the house with the children this should be the number 1 golden rule for a BS

If you stay it will increase your sense of stablity and your children. It will reenforce the bond between your children and yourself.

Expose to your WW Sibs. They do not need to know exact details, only she kept a dairy, has been lying to everyone, her new bestie knows and approves, lived like a groupie for this guy and loved feeling and acting like a porn star with him.

No more or less then this.

[This message edited by JohnA1 at 12:06 PM, June 14th (Tuesday)]

Okay her siblings know. They were so shocked. That's not the sister I know! I know she's changed but this is unbelievable! They both had warned her about this guy and what bad news he was.

We had a joint MC session scheduled for tomorrow. I cancelled it. The MC called me to ask why I cancelled it with my wife in a IC session. I said it's because she cannot show remorse or guilt for this horrible act she has done. Feeling it means nothing if you cannot show it and feel it towards me. The MC encouraged me to come tomorrow to at least see what my WW has to say. I reluctantly agreed.

Last night I asked her to move out because she continues to be disrespectful to me and does not feel remorse or guilt. As she was packing her bags she said "I should have left years ago!" She slept in the basement last night and comes up in the morning and says "How are you" "How was your run this morning? " like nothing happened the previous night. She asked me why I cancelled the MC session!?!?!?.

Yes I need a plan. She is likely to appease me in the MC session tomorrow to try and manipulate me. How do I avoid this? She is likely to show me a glimmer of remorse to trick me into to ending my resolve. On the other hand I can feel the relieF of beING without this women acting like a sociology path.

What's YOUR goal at any MC session? YOUR goal.

You won't believe anything she says. You don't need anymore details. There's nothing she can do in that meeting to change anything.

So why go?

Don't bother with that meeting. It's a waste of time. If she is truly remorseful, she will attend the session without you, begging the counsellor to help her win you back, then she'll start DOING something to win YOU back.

We all hope to win the lottery one day, but we continue through our lives like that won't happen until it does.

I think you need to continue on toward divorce unless your WW defies the odds and starts SHOWING you that she is remorseful. You shouldn't have to tell her what to do. She has the Google machine just like all of us.

Put on your boots, strap up the laces and put one foot in front of other. It's a long road out of infidelity, but we can help you get there.

ETA: By the way, she is going to combine the "should have left years ago" with the "how was your run?" so that she can say "We're such good friends since we divorced. It really was for the best, our marriage was over long before he says I cheated." You see, if the two of you are friends, then what she did really isn't that bad. Straight from the Cheater's Handbook™

[This message edited by ChangeMaker at 1:40 PM, June 14th (Tuesday)]

Kudos to you on the exposure. You're turning the heat up and she's going to start to see consequences of her actions. You're most likely going to start to see more anger and resentment when she realizes what you have done. Which will continue to show you that she is not remorseful in the least. That can still change though but honestly I would not hold your breath.

Have you read up on the 180 yet? If not you may want to at least read that in the links that I put on the first page. If things start to heat up you are going to want to start to use it right away. The purpose of the 180 is to focus on yourself and not worry about what is going on with your WW.

Honestly her behavior is pretty normal unremorseful wayward stuff at this point. She most likely is going to try and be manipulative in more ways than one and try and control the situation. Thus the anger at exposure because she no longer controls that. The contrast between "I should have left years ago" and "How are you" demonstrates that.

Yes I need a plan.

And that plan can continue to change as your situation develops. It can frequently change but your goal should be to continue to move forward out of infidelity. Have you been to see a lawyer yet? As I said earlier, you don't have to file, but you do need to educate yourself at a bare minimum. The sooner the better....so that you can better plan.

What about the kids? What is your plan there? Any though as to school counselors or IC for them?

yop

ChangeMaker: AMEN on the cheater script.

Go to MC and listen to why she would have left years ago. Why, to learn if there might be some truth in it. Then fix them for a better marriage or relationship with the next person. I saved a post from a poster that is by a poster who married a BS. She is not younger or hotter but by did her husband win the lottery with his new wife. What she wrote sums up whtat I am trying to say perfectly:

Why improve yourself by the new wife of a BS

As a side note I always find it very interesting when a person is hammering their ex mate so hard for cheating and refuses to accept any responsibility for anything that might have been wrong in the marriage.

My husband's exwife cheated on him and left him for the OM. She was pregnant by OM before the divorce was final. When I met him he admitted he knew he'd done things in the marriage which left it vulnerable to an affair.

He owned his behavior.

He didn't condone her affair but he accepted responsibility for his part in the demise of their marriage. That was something I had to respect. He worked on himself, in therapy, while they were separated and divorcing. When she wouldn't go to MC, he went alone, and I have reaped the benefit from that counseling.

[This message edited by JohnA1 at 1:54 PM, June 14th (Tuesday)]

She is likely to appease me in the MC session tomorrow to try and manipulate me.

As predicted, she changed tactics this morning and you can already see where this is heading.

If you've reached the point where all of this is now a dealbreaker to you, you can call it quits and NOBODY can blame you. If that is the case, refuse MC, see an attorney, educate yourself and press ahead for your own health and sanity.

If you aren't sure yet, then my $0.02 would be to open with something like this at MC...

"I need to feel loved and respected and my patience has worn out. I currently don't think that reconciliation is possible because you continually demonstrate that you don't love or respect me. That includes...

- Leaving the door open when you communicated NC to the OM

- Breaking NC repeatedly

- Manipulating me into continuing the family vacation all while you aren't committed to the marriage.

- Lying about the details of the A

- Not honoring my request for you to be honest with your exBFF

- Giving way more of yourself sexually to the OM than you've ever given to me

- Refusing to take actions on your own accord to help me heal.

- Trying to manipulate me over and over into giving you yet another chance

Coming to this MC session feels like a manipulative effort on your part to get me to listen to a bunch of lies, excuses and promises in hopes that I will give you yet another chance. I've given you plenty of chances and you've thrown each and every one back in my face. You burned our marriage to the ground when you chose to have the affair and haven't been interested in trying to rebuild it. You've only been interested in taking action when it helps you avoid any consequences. As I indicated last night, I continue to think that you should leave."

Especially if you think she (or even the MC) will find a way to get you to agree to something you will later regret, simply resolve ahead of time that you will commit to NOTHING. A "I'll need to think about that" should be more than sufficient.

[This message edited by Crushed7 at 3:54 PM, June 14th (Tuesday)]

You are disrespecting yourself. Ultimately, when this marriage is over ,formally, I think your indecision, your trying to force someone to have remorse, and your trying to force someone to love you may be your greatest source of humiliation and regret.

You cannot, probably, force your wife to move out, but, perhaps, you might want to consider seeing a lawyer and starting divorce proceedings.

Do not let your wife abuse you any longer. I hope all goes well for you. For me, after I divorced, things began looking up.

See an attorney asap.

Get var to protect yourself from false domestic violence charges.

Do the 180

Expose expose

Exercise eat right

Take care of the kids and keep a journal of all the care you give them

If there is a chance for R you will need to see non coerced action not words or sex from your wife.

Prayers

bedman, I am going to reply to the question in your original post, though I think things are going in a different direction, because I think she's going to ask for R, and you will have to decide.

I decided on R, and like you, because of the children. But I should be clear, you have to think very hard, as I did, whether it's really for the children, or it's because you're afraid of making the hard choice. Don't use your children as an excuse to avoid the short term pain, because R is hard. Very hard.

And no, you never forget those images, the mind movies.

And if you had a wonderful marriage, you will never get it back the same way.

You will never love your wife the same way.

However, you can get to a state where, if you truly detach and then re-attach, if you become a bit of a cynic about true love, you can accept human nature, forgive, and move on. But your wife is nowhere near that point. You have yet to see true remorse or true dread.

Would I recommend it? Only if your wife is an incredibly good mother, only if she is so remorseful she can't sleep, eat, or walk straight, and.... only if you are absolutely ready to walk away... right now, and at any point hereafter.

I would not recommend that you R by default, because you believe you have no choice because of the kids or because you are afraid you will never find someone new. I chose R. I did not have to. I was financially able to weather a D. I had kids who would have been OK, though not ideal. I had women throwing themselves at me as soon as the word of A started spreading. I had options and I chose R, and my WW knows that. Without that, if she were still in the fog, if she thought I was afraid to walk or didn't have the balls to start over, I don't think R would be working.

[This message edited by french123 at 7:35 PM, June 14th (Tuesday)]

However, you can get to a state where, if you truly detach and then re-attach, if you become a bit of a cynic about true love, you can accept human nature, forgive, and move on.

^^^I think this is the real end game of healing. Understanding the human condition. Irrespective of whether you R or D.

So sorry you'r here bedman, I had the same with my xWW not showing remorse or getting it. Mine never did and today we have no contact except the rare one about our kids and then it's only through her relatives or mine.

It's sadly all too common that BS gets blamed and that the wayward can't own up what they have done.

Shocking them out of this fog works for quite a few when hitting them with divorce papers and moving out doing 180. It's terribly hard, I know, but stay strong for yourself, don't fall for the manipulation, blame games and gaslighting we often get.

It's tempting to try and rugsweep and fall for the manipulation, I did and I spent a year in hell with her running around with many other OM with me working, providing and caring for the kids. I won't recommend what I did to anyone, it damn near destroyed me completely.

Enablers of the affair is no friend you need in your life or marriage if you should decide to try and R. But before WW is clear on how huge a gift a chance at R really is, there is no point in even considering it.

As she was packing her bags she said "I should have left years ago!" She slept in the basement last night and comes up in the morning and says "How are you" "How was your run this morning? " like nothing happened the previous night. She asked me why I cancelled the MC session!?!?!?.

Bedman

It felt good to say what she did but when she had time to think about it she had no place (or no convenient place) to go. Instead of addressing the issue or apologizing it was easier to just pretend that it didn’t happen.

Think of her as your teenage daughter who had sex with a bad boy you told her to stay away from. It felt good to tell you “up yours” and that she was running away from home. Then she realized that she had nowhere to go.

Some clarifications:

I saw a lawyer 3 weeks ago. I am in a decent financial position but I don't think i could afford to keep the home our kids love and have spent their whole lives in. My wife definitely couldn't afford to keep the house even with child support and alimony. Regardless we'd all be ok.

I have read some of the resources in the healing library including the 180. I don't think I have been emotionally stable enough to implement it until now.

My wife has not spoken to her siblings since I exposed the affair. She does not seem to have any urgency in speaking to them. I believe it's because she cannot frame the affair in the sugar coated way she'd like to. It's very hard for her to admit faults, nevermind the magnitude of this. She has spoken to her father who applied significant pressure. My wifes mother passed away last July. Her father said he's glad her mother isn't alive today cause she would be devistated to know what she's done. That he was looking to have a relaxing retirement and she is creating a lot of stress in his life. ThE exposure and this discussion all happened Tuesday during the day.

Surprise surprise guess what happened Tuesday night? She tried being defensive she tried being angry with me for the exposure. I explained it was for her own good. She said I did it to hurt her. I reiterated it was to help you take ownership of the affair. And then..... the first signs of remorse. It kind of makes me laugh on some level. Truthfully I don't think she can or will keep it up.

I was nonetheless a little more optimistic about the MC session today. I think it went well. I liked what I saw in her. I won't get into the details for now. I laid down with my boys to speak to them before bed tonight and was able to finally fall asleep early. I was awaken by my wife at 2 am. She had looked through my phone. I had not told her about speaking with the OBS about the details or speaking with her siblings for that matter. It was only after speaking with her father that she learned I spoke with her siblings. I did not feel I had any responsibility to tell her under the circumstances. So she was shocked to see evidence that I had spoke to the OBS. She told me she was very hurt about this. She also saw evidence of an innocent short text I had recently with an ex girlfriend. That I had spoken to my step mother about the affair and she was unaware and that I had googled "evidence of having anal sex" despite her being adamant she hadn't. We have never had anal sex. Her diary alluded to him asking her to have anal sex in the middle of intercourse but never confirmed or denied it ever happening. She is emphatic that she would never do that or did that with him, which is consistent with my experience with her. I guess the fact I was still questioning whether she had anal despite her telling me no was hurtful to her cause I dont trust her!?!?!? Yeah she still isn't getting it. I reiterated that I told the OBS the details for my wifes well being in mind. I told her she was still not taking ownership of what she has done and my intent was to help her take that ownership. I told her that the OBS told me that my wife told her that the affair didn't start until after the OBS had moved out and this was further evidence that you continue to rug sweep and lie. As a reminder the A actually started more than 4 months prior to the OBS moving out. I told my wife exactly what I said to the OBS including that my wife was having sex with her husband/AP in the massage room likely while you were upstairs making dinner. My wife quickly responded to say that it wasn't true that she was upstairs making dinner while they were fucking that they only did it while she was out. This is a lie as her diary commented that there were a couple of times when the OBS interrupted them and the AP's young children would interrupt them from having sex. That they were almost caught by both the OBS and the children.

So we have another MC next week. I am not making any decisions and am just gathering information. I hear what people are saying. I get that some feel she will not make a true effort to R if I don't move forward with D and other consequences. I realize I may have to move in this direction . Does anyone feel there is a sense of urgency in moving in that direction immediately? I am in a much better spot for myself today than I have ever been. I don't know if I want to R but I am not making any decisions at this point. I realive it has to be a decision that's made not for fear of breaking the family or being alone.