SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So her cheer leader can relay messages? Is other man going to buy a ticket to the concert and change seats with your wife? What kind of "no contact" is this?

She will take advantage of you to the extent that you allow.

If she wants to keep her phone the same, if she wants to see andctalj with other man, and the cheer leader, that is her legal right. She is an adult and you can't make her not see or talk with other people. She is allowed to associate with. You have legal rights too, but stopping from her doing what she wants to do is not one of them.

I never advise trying to influence the cheater not to cheat. I advise the opposite, if she wants to be friends with the cheer leader and the other man, go for it, she can have sex with other man while while the cheer leader watches and yells out cheers. But you don't have to be a part of it.

Imagine you now are like a prison warden trying to guard your wife from not being with other men. She does not want to stop willingly.

I advise going back to the basic premise of your wedding vows. You shouldn't have to cajole her not to do hurtful actions to you and cajole her to stop having sex with other man.

You were fortunate to have gotten hold of her diary. I am not certain I understand why you did not want to share with OM's betrayed spouse. Or would that you had never read the details that your wife inadvertently left open to your eyes?

Your wife wants the security of your marriage and sure she loves you for being her husband, but she enjoyed the excitement of fornication. It was exciting.

Do you think that if you divorced your wife and had a GF or new spouse, would your wife enjoy having hot dirty sex with you? In other words would the illicit sex be better for her?

Whether or not you divorce is something you can decide in time. No rush.

If your wife's affair is getting in your head in negative way, you need workout in the gym, pursue your hobbies, take joy in your kids. In other words find happiness in life that is not dependent on your relationship. That will reduced the power of your WW to hurt you.

Is your wife the marital equivalent of the “suicide by cop”?

That’s where someone that wants to die creates a situation where the police are forced to shoot him. They do this because they don’t have the … courage?... to pull the trigger themselves.

Only in your situation your wife want’s you to pull the plug on the marriage.

If you guys are in MC then I would really open up on all the issues at MC.

Make it clear that:

a) Despite her words you wonder if she’s really in the marriage. Make it clear she can get out and that you two can and will hammer out divorce in an amicable way.

b) She doesn’t have to sacrifice her best friends. If YOU her husband aren’t her best friend then there is something wrong. Granted we all have “best friends” outside the marriage but if a spouse isn’t one’s best confidant and the person we seek most from… then it’s time to move on.

c) Tell her about how you don’t see the remorse.

d) Tell her how insulting and degrading it is for you to be compared negatively regarding sexual issues with OM.

If your MC is half-way competent then a session that starts with the above monologue should set the action-plan for the next dozen sessions… or get you to the inevitable solicitor for divorce.

She is going out to a concert with her tonight and didn't ask me how I felt about it cause this has been planned for months. She isn't doing a good job thinking about my feelings.

No, your wife does not go to the concert tonight. I dont give a damn how long it was planned, she screwed up and that is called consequences. If she goes to the concert tonight, that is a huge slap in your face.

I normally do not advocate divorce here, but if she goes tonight with this friend, I would file.

This is a huge disrespect and a slap in your face. She has no clue as to what she has done.

If she is willing to do counseling, then, I double down on my recommendation for "How To Help Your Spouse Heal..." book. Get it. Worth the $10 many times over.

First, really sorry you have been put through this.

From my perspective, I agree with Bigger that your wife is just about forcing your hand to divorce her, as she is not in love with you and wants the OM.

I do not think it is likely you can recover from the damage she has done to you, without jettisoning her and starting a new life.

She seems incredibly insensitive, not a nice person.

My XW was particularly cruel to me, as well, boasting about the physique and endowment of her OM. It really rocked my world and shook my self confidence.

Your wife, on some level, knew it was likely or at least possible that you would come across that diary and read what you did. My XW did this, as well, in addition to the boasting.

I can only extrapolate from my own experience, and you may have greater abilities to get over this type of thing than I had, but it is very tough to do, IMO.

There was no necessity for your wife to have been so cruel. And, apparently, she had no regard for her best friend, either.

I can not even imagine how someone, a decent person, could act like this and I think you really need to look at what your wife has been like all these years before the cheating.

It seems unlikely to me that she could have this ability to act like this within her, and not have had it manifest itself in other ways before.

I would , seriously, encourage you to start learning about the Cluster B personality disorders and to try to make an assessment if she has one.

I will be posting my story soon. All I can tell you is my WS did things with her AP that she never did with me. She told me she felt like she went the extra mile with AP because she was competing with his wife. I know it is crazy. I am trying to focus on healing myself. I am relatively new so I won't give advice.

Opps - I thought you found out in December. I apologize if I was harsh. But, honestly, I wouldn't edit my post at all. I agree with the others that she is forcing you to file so that she doesn't have as much guilt about this. She thinks she's in love with her best friend (who says calls their OM their best friend to their BS????). I know you only wanted to hear from people that reconciled. I'm one of those people. But I had a remorseful WH. You don't have that. It's shocking that either of you think the concert is ok. I really think the mantra of "you'll have to be willing to lose the marriage if you want to save it" applies here. Do you see how quickly she changed her tune when you told her to move out? She's cake-eating. No consequences. And she's really mad that she got caught.

And by the way, I'm so happy that his wife found out. How awful to think that a bunch of people know your husband is screwing someone behind your back but no one told you because they didn't want to hurt you.

Crushed, profoundly written I can only hope OP accepts it.

Year of pain, so true, again in the midst of OP pain I hope he finds the courage to read these links.

Bigger: I think your right, suicide by cop is the perfect example.

I recall a thread where the WW told her husband in MC "how can I feel sorry for something I enjoyed". The OP stopped posting a week later.

Her BFF who's husband she screwed, how can her friend ever feel friendship for your WW again. Her current BF, really she is letting a toxic element into the marriage, again suicide by cop.

I hope the OP re-reads Crush, pain, and bigger post again tonight, reads the links and finds the strength to act.

Thanks again everyone. I feel everyone's support. I am low on selF esteem and self respect and I have to watch my decisons and thoughts when they come from this place. Another thing I am hearing is that I don't have to make a decision right now. I am not the most patient person however.

I am going to share more of the story in hope that it will allow me to make better sense of what has happened and help me move forward.

Yes they always had unprotected sex . Yes I had an STD check immediately after DD. My wife didn't have one until 3-4 weeks after DD. As she put it if I was clean than why did she need to have an STD test. Yes I was the one that made her get the test. I waited 3 weeks to see if she would get it done on her own and finally ripped into her for being such an idiot in the matter. Again she took action cause I told to. This has been a recurring theme since DD.

The AP's wife (again one of my wifes close friends as she puts it) happens to be a client of mine. My wife put in a good word about me when she was separating from the AP and I started helping her with her finances . This started before the A was discovered. The friend has said she is comfortable working with me since DD and so we continue to work together. Other than on the friends DD we have not spoken about the details of the A, which seems odd. The friend only knows that there were sexual relations between my wife and her exhusband. She did not stick around to hear any details of the relationship after she stormed off. The friend does not know the A was 5 months long and they were having sex in the home before any signs of trouble in her marriage and that the sex was happening downstairs while the friend was upstairs. The friend was the one that puĺled the plug on her marriage as apparently the AP is a narcissist and had been extremely abusive to her in their 15 years of marriage. I am wondering if I should share the details with her now? I am meeting with her next week and yes my wife knows about our meetings. You can imagine that my wife was hearing both ends of the story during the Breakup from her AP and his wife. Armed with knowledge from the AP's wife she knew the days and times her AP was particularly stressed and would offer her comfort accordingly.

My parents know about the A. My wifes father knows. However only my father and step mother know the details. Her father and my mother think she had a short term affair with a single man because she was unhappy in our marriage. My wife sugar coated the details to her father and made a case against me because I made her change her email/cell and even suggested we might have to move to get away from the memories. Again the OBS ( i am gradually getting these acronyms) told everyone she could but she only knows the general details. My wifes brother and sister do not know anything aND the same goes for my 3 half brothers. I am wondering if I should tell my wifes slings. Do I need to tell my wife I am doin this ahead of time? This might scare my wife into action. I told her that her siblings would be told of the A if we were to separate. She all of a sudden approached me a little more gently. I am sure she is scared of them finding out or her father knowing the details. Her siblings know she was spending time with the AP and we're critical of him (and her) knowing his reputation in the city. My wife characteriled her relationship as friendship with the AP with most people including her siblings.

In the last couple of months of the A they started to meet in local parking lots and fuck in the back of cars including my car(!), because they were worried about getting caught in his house. I saw a text to her friend that this guy's cum shots were so huge and that their relationship was so strange case they would be talking at one point and the next moment having sex like pornstars. According to my wife their sex was always rushed. The 2 of them spoke about getting a hotel or being in a bed at some point. There was even a plan to fuck in our bed one night but that plan didn't come together. My wifes diary documented this evening about how excited she was to have him in our bed finally so they could not be rushed and he could pleasure her more. The AP is somewhat of a local celebrity. He is a multimillionaire and has a reputation for having cheated in the past being a bit of a player and a womanizer. This guy is extremely confident and certainly not what you would describe as a nice guy. I have met him several times (before the A started). The only real thing he ever has said to me was some joke about Rohypnol. I was not familiar with what this was. He laughed as he informed me that it was the date rape drug. This summarizes the type of guy he is. That Rohypnol jokes are funny. He made this joke openly to a mixed group of 8 people of which most had just met him. My wife has said she admires him (amongst other things) for not caring about what other people think about him. Life would be so much easier that way!

I told my wife this afternoon that our marriage would be over if she went to the concert with her friend. She didn't like hearing this. She proceed to tell me that our marriage would not work then. It just so happened that she had an IC session booked with our MC. I suggested we do it jointly if for no other reason but to help us split ammicably. She begrudgingly agreed. The counselor essentially said my WW needed to show me that she was prepared to acknowledge my sensitivities and would need to set boundaries with her friend while I was present in order to get this issue behind us. My wife sat silently but I imagine she didnt like hearing this. I had asked my wife not to speak with her friend about the concert until after the session. She of course called her on the way to our session to tell her she couldn't go to the concert. I an sure there was disparaging remarks made against me during this phone call. We've decided to go the concert together. Yeah its weird and probably not advisable. My wife and I have made no effort to ease the tension since my ultimatum but we again are going to the concert under the pretenses that we are going to try and have a good time. Sounds kind of funny as I write it.

I have written down some of the book recommendations and personality dis order details. I don't think she would get an official diagnosis of mental illness but she demonstrates many characteristics of these disorders.

I appreciate all of your responses. I didn't expect to get the type of feedback I am getting but it is sobering.

So basically your MC did a version of this, only she (the MC) did the talking:

If you guys are in MC then I would really open up on all the issues at MC.

Make it clear that:

a) Despite her words you wonder if she’s really in the marriage. Make it clear she can get out and that you two can and will hammer out divorce in an amicable way.

b) She doesn’t have to sacrifice her best friends. If YOU her husband aren’t her best friend then there is something wrong. Granted we all have “best friends” outside the marriage but if a spouse isn’t one’s best confidant and the person we seek most from… then it’s time to move on.

c) Tell her about how you don’t see the remorse.

d) Tell her how insulting and degrading it is for you to be compared negatively regarding sexual issues with OM.

If your MC is half-way competent then a session that starts with the above monologue should set the action-plan for the next dozen sessions… or get you to the inevitable solicitor for divorce.

I suggest you go back for another session and you start it with the above. Your wife really has to get the damage she has caused.

Look – I think you probably have a salvageable marriage IF THAT’S WHAT YOU WANT. But it’s going to require a lot of work from both of you:

The “best friend” that got to hear of OM great massive cum-shots… That person has to be out of your lives. She MIGHT be allowed to stay IF she can convince you in any way that she did try to talk your WW out of the affair. But if she was just a cheerleader… she’s just as poisonous as OM. There is no way you will ever be comfortable with her around.

It sounds a lot like your WW doesn’t get the scope of the damage caused. She has to realize that added to the trauma of infidelity you are dealing with the amount of info you have. She has to find ways to convince you that you matter – that you can still be the “man” she wants and not the compromise she’s settling for.

For you then you have to work on not wondering if OM was better in bed, if the intensity was more, if you are enough… Sex is such an integral part of married life and how couples retain intimacy. She’s seriously damaged that tool for you and you will be fighting doubts and demons for years.

There is NO WAY this will work if she thinks she’s being “forced” to skip a concert, sacrifice her friend or whatever. She has to WANT the marriage more than anything else. She has to be willing to make sacrifices WILLINGLY. You aren’t the compromise – you are the prize.

I'm sorry. You are threatening your wife in order for her to do what you want. You are holding her over her head over the affair exposure. That is not a good basis of reconciling.

I suggest you remove exposure from holding over her head. Just go and expose - tell her siblings, tell the details to her mom and dad. Then what? Will she still want to be married to you? Does she love you? If she does love you, then why is she acting like this? If she doesn't love you, then why do you want to stay? Are you hoping she would change her mind to love you again? By how, by threatening her about exposure?

You can go round and round about this. The basic unadulterated truth is that if she doesn't love you, then you are at best prolonging the inevitable.

You would be better off to tell her flat off, you don't want any more games. Either she loves and wants to help you, or she doesn't. And if she can't see the pain she caused, and how her wanting to go to a cheater-apologist with a concert than your marriage, and she is angry with you about that, then you should just start planning to move forward.

Sorry you are here brother.

I have read all your posts so far and the one common thing I am seeing is all you are doing.

You changed her phone number and e-mail address. You told her she could not go to the concert with her friend. You had to get her to get STD testing.

I'm not a betting man but I would lay odds that you were insistent for IC/MC.

What specifically is she doing? What is she doing to show she is remorseful? What is she doing to make you feel safe? What is she doing to help you to attempt to rebuild trust?

If it helps you, I did the exact same things when I found out. It was all me. At some point, early on, I put my foot down and quit trying until my BS started showing action. Action she took on her own accord. Not by bullying or managing the situation by me. If she wanted to try and reconcile, it was all up to her to make the right moves.

I wish I could claim credit for this masterpiece but I can't. It belongs to very wise member from another website. It should be etched in the minds of every man and woman who has been the victim on infidelity.

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,

let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,

"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,

and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,

wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?

Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.

A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?

To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?

What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?

They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,

The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.

You don't fight them on this issue.

You agree with their feelings,

they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",

you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",

you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.

Went to the concert. It was a bit of a disaster. We sat silently for most of it.

When we got home we had a surprisingly calm discussion. She said she didn't know why she couldn't show remorse. I said she needed to work on herself to address this as well as why she had this affair. I said I couldn't wait while she figured this out as she was also being disrespectful to me. I asked her to leave. She became angry and wouldn't speak to me. The last thing she said to me was that she should have left a long time ago. Yes I believe she's been sabotaging this relationship to force me to end it.

I feeling surprisingly ok about it all. I have set her free. I need to work on myself now.

I didn't expect to get the type of feedback I am getting but it is sobering.

Everyone here has a different story and their own way of communicating. Some are indirect and others are blunt. But the common thread is that everyone is trying to help. We'd like to help you avoid more pain than you've already experienced. It can be a bit much at times, but take what you are able to and leave the rest.

I am wondering if I should share the details with her now?

I'd tread carefully here. It sounds like her EX has a reputation that has enough to it that she had every reason to divorce him. She may not need or want any more details. If she expresses interest upon hearing about a change in your marriage, then start general and only get more specific if she wants to hear more.

Do I need to tell my wife I am doin this ahead of time?

It isn't your job to keep her secrets. You don't need permission and you certainly shouldn't let her know ahead of time. Go ahead and tell any of her family or friends that may be able to help her. Unfortunately, you can't count on them to be supportive of you, but, occasionally, you'll be surprised.

Yes I believe she's been sabotaging this relationship to force me to end it.

Since you've expressed your unwillingness to put up with her disrespect and asked her to leave, she is now on notice that you aren't going to be compliant and easy to manipulate. Expect her to try various tactics to see if she can regain control. I wouldn't expect her silence to last for long. "Love bombing" is one tactic that she may try to see if she can get you to soften. Anger or guilt may be other angles she tries. You'll need to be prepared for the worst though -- baiting you into a situation where she makes you angry and gets you to make any kind of physical contact with her all so she can call in a DV (domestic violence) charge. It seems a common tactic is to grab something (e.g. phone, papers, etc.) or to come at you in order to try to force a struggle. Wrestling over something or even restraining her forms the basis for "physical assault". It's all to blame you for the divorce and gain leverage for the financial settlement. Get yourself a VAR (voice activated recorder) and keep it on your person at all times simply to protect yourself.

I need to work on myself now.

Detach from the games she is playing so that you can let your head clear and be in a better position to make wise decisions. Step 1 for that is the 180. You can find that as part of the FAQ for Betrayed Spouses here - http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11.

[This message edited by Crushed7 at 4:26 AM, June 14th (Tuesday)]

Bedman

So she left?

Stick to your guns. Put your efforts and focus on you and your boys.

Your wife has issues my friend and you cannot fix them.

Please reread Bigger's posts. They are spot on.

You need to take control. Of your self. Your actions and your marriage. You need to be the leader.

Even if you choose to divorce you need to control it.

Your wife not only chose to cheat she chose a loser to cheat with. They always affair down.

Come up with a plan. If your wife truly wants a divorce then pick a date in the near future to start the process. Find an attorney and get the facts about your rights and the rights of your kids.

Also let your FIL and your wifes siblings know the truth about her affair, her married affair partner and your wifes desire to walk away from her marriage and family.

Ask for their support.

Take control and let your wife know you will no longer be disrespected and will no longer tolerate her bad decisions....

HM

[This message edited by happyman64 at 5:11 AM, June 14th (Tuesday)]

The details included things that she had never done or said to me...

Been there, done that with emails and text messages provided to me my WW AP. Generally I understand this to be unfortunately very common regardless of the circumstances. Things we did, that I thought we held special to just her and me... were... not so special, and then some. She stated that they did things that she could never imagine doing with me. Holy crap, I thought we did pretty much everything there was to do... What's left?

My question is for anyone that's been in a similar situation and decided to stay in their marriage can you get to a spot where the knowledge of the details fade and you no longer have resentment for your wife because she shared different sexual experiences with her AP compared with you? How did you process the details? Is this worth fighting for?

I personally have chalked it up to what's done is done. I've filed it in the "that marriage (and even person) no longer exists" folder. When I had to first come to terms with "not being special" to her, it was tough. For me, those details have faded somewhat after 8 months, only because there are other fish to fry as we have/are attempting R and both working on ourselves in IC. Accepting that the person I thought I was married to doesn't exist has overshadowed the memories of what they did. For us, R looked promising, but issues like choosing D over a polygraph when she says she is telling the truth have, for me, put new perspective on EVERYTHING.

[This message edited by Cougins at 7:31 AM, June 14th (Tuesday)]

I'm 26 months from dday and I still think about what they did and feel pain, anger and resentment almost daily. I will say that things are better than they were. It takes time and energy. Putting energy into redirecting your thoughts when invasive thoughts come takes practice. It's big always possible but it helps if you start to practice it. But takes time and patience.

My Wh didn't do things with now that he hasn't done with me or at least that's what he tells me however they were doing things that I was having trouble doing at the time for different reasons. It is definitely a mind f**k.

I didn't get as many details as I requested. I got tt for a year and then as many details as he could recall which wasn't sufficient in my mind and I don't know if the lack of memory is avoidance or real memory problems. He does have serious memory problems. I do have enough for me to consider r and it's going well however the mind movies are still an issue for me even though they are getting better. 2-5 years is what they say it takes.

bedman, sorry to hear of your plight. I was going to post what I am now posting before your latest set of posts.

Here are my observations:

Your marriage is over. It has probably been over for some time given who the affair was with.

Your wife has been attracted to the POS for longer than she lets on. Given the "celebrity", "bad boy", and wealthy image that the sh!the@d enjoys, he would have been very attractive to her. And narcissism and abusive behaviour would go hand in hand with the OBS left him for.

The affair was probably building up over longer than you know and may have even started (and stopped and restarted) a few times before Dec 2015.

There is no reconciliation here because she is not only not remorseful for her actions but actually resentful of you for not letting her have her porn star sex with him on an ongoing basis and even in your bed as she wanted. Ejaculating on her face and in her mouth would only be the tip of the iceberg of what she was and is probably prepared to do with him.

And here's the rub - she did all this knowing that he was a player and would never be with her on a long term basis - that is how selfish and stupid she is.

So the best thing is for you to protect yourself and get her out of your life asap. And destroy their reputations if you can. Mind you, to him it would just be advertising, but do it anyway. Secure your evidence for this.

I was going to tell you all this before her last set of interactions with you.