SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I can’t stop thinking WS is putting me through FR again. The FR traumatized me so bad I just can’t get over it. I know things are different since DDay 2 but it’s been a constant thing for me to think it’s FR again this time. I literally ask him almost every single day if he’s still lying to me or cheating on me. He always says no of course. His actions are consistent with remorse and true reconciliation but if one little thing happens or he says something that triggers me I start flipping out again. Will this ever really go away? Is there something I’m missing? Are we doing something wrong? Is he? I can’t live like this anymore.

You have been heard.

I too struggle post FR.

It is almost like everything is a trigger of one sort or another. I question everything.

When I'm having a good moment/day I up my self care. When I have a bad moment/day I force myself to function. It never leaves my mind.

I have a lump in my throat regularly, my heart is constantly heavy and I question everything.

You aren't alone brokendollparts.

An A is an awful, destructive trauma. As a result of my FWH's affair, I was diagnosed with PTSD. I read about the symptoms and it was such a relief to know that there was an actual explanation for all of the things I was feeling and doing. As a result of the initial discovery and FR, it was impossible for me not to be obsessed with the same things you are: Is he still cheating and lying about it? Will he do this again? How can I be safe in this relationship? I also needed constant reassurance from him, although that didn't help that much, since I could not trust a thing he said. In the end it was his actions over time that calmed that intense fear and panic: IC, transparency, the willingness to discuss the A and answer all questions in a supportive and compassionate manner and without defense. I think all BS go through this kind of panic and fear. It is the job of the WS to prove that they are worthy of being in our lives and that we are safe. It is a consequence to their actions to help us through the horror of the aftermath of an A for as long as it takes and no matter what healing looks like for us. Some waywards cannot do this..they are, after all, selfish cowards. It takes a lot of heavy lifting for them to become safe partners. In short, the answer to your first question is that it takes time. It does get better. In response to your second, third and fourth questions, here is list of the characteristics of a wayward that is a candidate for R that I have seen others post:

• They are non defensive

• They examine their motives for their affairs, without blaming their spouses

• They accept their roles as healers to their wounded partners

• They do not resist breaking off all contact with the affair partner

• They show genuine contrition and remorse for what they have done

• They make amends and apologize to loved ones

• They apologize often, especially the first two years

• They listen with patience and validate their spouses’ pain

• They allow their spouses a lot of room to express their feelings

• They respect the betrayed spouse’s timetable for recovering

• They seek to assure spouses of their love and commitment to fidelity

• They keep no secrets

• They do not maintain close ties with those who condoned the affair

• They are willing to be extremely accountable for their time and activities

• They frequently check in with spouses as to how they are doing

• They are aware of and anticipate triggers of the affair

• They are willing to get rid of hurtful reminders of the affair

• They don’t minimize the damage the affair had on the children

• They commit themselves to a long-term plan for recovery, honesty, and Internal (Spiritual) growth

If your husband is willingly engaging in these guidelines like mine is, it will get easier and you may be able to R. This is, however, an individual decision. Some BS can R and for some an A is a dealbreaker.

For me, I may forgive, but I will never forget. I have learned to live with the uncertainty. I don't check as often, but I am always on the alert for lies and other forms of infantile behavior. I randomly check phone records, etc. In the end, however, if they are going to cheat, they will find a way to do it. It is up to you to decide if you can live with all the devastation that comes with infidelity.

What, if anything, is different from the last time? What is your WS doing to prove he is not cheating?

Chaos:

Thank you and I’m sorry you have these feelings too. It’s an awful existence.

Notmine:

He does everything you listed yet I’m still scared. It’s like I’m 90% believing he isn’t, not capable of hurting me again but the memory and pain from him actually hurting me already just won’t let me let go. He’s said he’s in it for the long haul. However long it takes. He says his job is to be there for me and heal what he’s done. He’s not perfect and we have these battles sometimes and that’s when I start thinking he’s doing something bad again. It’s a horrid HORRID roller coaster rode and I really want off!

Northeasternarea:

He’s doing everything Notmine listed and more. That’s my problem! He is doing everything humanly possible I think but I’m afraid the trauma he inflicted was too deep and I’ll nevwr heal.

To be clear

He encouraged me to lock his phone down with restrictions (available on iPhone). He can download apps but cannot delete them. Restricted access to adult sites, cannot make changes to location. Of course AP numbers are blocked

I have all his passwords to everything

He never EVER goes off alone with his phone (except work which can’t be helped and he even offered to just get a cheap flip phone for when he’s at work if that would make me feel safer)

He has taken FULL responsibility for the A. Doesn’t even put blame on the AP

He answers all my questions about the A without getting defensive or angry

He asks me if I’m ok all the time

He know and understands my triggers and tries to avoid them or if he sees me upset he will ask

He’s accountable for his whereabouts 100% of the time

He makes sure we spend alone time together doing bonding activities

He makes me laugh (this is important because without his sense of humor sometimes I’d probably never smile and sometimes I DO need to laugh about something A related but it’s never something he’s dismissing)

I mean I don’t know what else he can do? I made this silly list of “things he isn’t or didn’t do” but I feel it’s very minimal and some of those can’t be changed (like I didn’t get to hear his convo with OW ending affair and that haunts me)

I go through his own phone every few days. I check the phone records every month or so

What else can I do? What else can HE do? Is it just TIME? He’s the one who reminds me “2-5 years to heal” and he says he’s in it for the long haul. Unless he’s a damn sociopath which I truly TRULY don’t believe be is then he can’t still be cheating can he? He doesn’t ACT like a man with anything to hide. He’s not on edge or lashing out at me. He will stay on the phone with me all day if I want. He won’t go anywhere but work without me and then he asks me to come hang out. How could he be hiding anything if he wants me around all the time? Am I just being a ridiculous brat?

This sucks. I love him yet I’m choosing PAIN by choosing R.

we have these battles sometimes

If he is being defensive, it will sound to you like he is defending the behavior. This may well make you feel like he is not being truthful.

I am so sorry that you are here. I remember how it felt to be in the endless circle of fear and desperation and sadness and anger. I remember feeling so emotionally tired that I did not think I could do another day on the roller coaster. I had to take it one day, hour, moment at at time, take the next right step for myself. It just sucks.

Recovery from infidelity takes time. Not the time we want it to take, the time we need it to take. Be gentle with yourself. It has taken me almost 4 years to get here. I was a lot like you for a long time.

You are NOT being a brat, you a being a traumatized human being.

Check out The Addicted Brain Podcast Episodes 21 and 22. The subject is Relational and Betrayal Trauma. In it, the therapist talks about the state of mind of the BS. I found it to be really helpful.

Notmine

The “battles” aren’t him being defensive it’s him being a tired, grouchy asshole occasionally. I feel like he should never EVER talk to me in any way except loving and kind after what he’s put me through. We had this battle about him brushing his teeth when he came home from work. We established early on that showering immediately when he came home wasn’t ok with me (he works a very physical job and has every reason to want to shower when he comes home after 14-16 hour days). He has a bad tooth and needs a root canal we can’t afford at the moment so I told him to rinse his mouth with the mouthwash at night to keep bacteria down. He didn’t do it right away because he’s a stubborn, forgetful dude. Then one night he came home and brushed his teeth and I flipped my shit. I hounded him for days and he kinda blew up at me one night which sent me reeling because I was like “ok he’s hiding something” so yeah it wasn’t “defensive” per se but yeah it kinda was? He apologized properly but stuff like that really gets my suspicious hackles up and why wouldn’t it? That sounds like something someone who is hiding something would do right? I try to rationalize but then I’m like “am I being a fool???” Is he truly still having an affair and I’m just too stupid to see it? He is a kinda moody guy and always has been and it’s real hard to deal with him on the rare occasion he acts like that now after what he’s done. I don’t know sometimes I get so confused.

Your second dday is very close to my second dday (27th Jan 2018). Maintained contact.

Like in your case my WH changed a lot after dday 2. What you listed is what mine has done. If I would be to do a comparison for the 4 months when he maintained contact and the behaviour following dday 2 I would be here forever.

I was also diagnosed with PTSD following dday 2. I basically turned my WH into a monster in my head (only a monster could watch his wife going through so much pain, fainting, losing weight at an alarming rate, wanting to die etc) and still keep in contact with his AP. An AP who was also torturing me with SM posts at the same time and he didn’t give a shit although we had DAILY conversations about “she posted this” and me sobbing. Anyway I digress.

What I learnt since then is that my brain will still go in override sometimes and those are the times when I think “I can’t deal with this shit anymore, it’s torture”. I want to divorce and move on. And all this hyper vigilance on top of the usual affair stuff you need to deal with: your self worth, your confidence, lack of specialness and the list can go on. It makes you think you must be a masochist to put yourself through it. However on paper divorce doesn’t sound right. We’ve done so many changes, he’s done so many changes in the last year and a half that, if we are to believe that people are generally good but sometimes they fuck up, it seems worth it to stick at it.

What seems to help me a lot is this: assess his behaviour. Be open and tell him about my low moments and watch his reaction. Ask myself “did anything of consequence makes me think today that something happened?” And most importantly: acceptance.

Acceptance that yes, my husband may still be cheating. He may still be lying and deceiving me. I can only do my best and be my best self with the information I have. There is no shame in assuming the best and taking the best decisions with the information you have at that moment. And the information I have based on my WH’s actions is that he isn’t probably cheating. What’s important though is having a plan of what discovering another betrayal will look like for you. I’ve planned it all. I haven’t only planned it all for today, I know what it would look like if it happens next year or 10 years from now on. I planned it down to the little details. How I would react, what I would do, where I would go etc. I even planned it with my support system. I have my aunt and my BF on call for that day should it happen. Sounds crazy right? But I assessed I would feel shocked when the night comes and the kids are in bed. So I would need someone to hold me while I sob. I told my aunt I need her to be there with me to nurse me and support me. My BF to take my dd at hers for a night.

When you’ll have that plan in place you’ll feel in control. Not in control of your WH’s actions but I’m control of yours. And those are the only one you can control.

Do I still have moments when I spiral? Sure. For example during my WH’s affair I used to wonder why he smelled funny (for some reason his body chemistry changed and he started to have this weird smell instead of his usual sweat smell). I sniff him sometimes as weird as it sounds. And his normal smell now brings me some peace. Like you I have some moments when I go “did you shower? Why did you shower immediately after work?” Those moments I keep to myself. I talk myself out of it because I truly don’t want to turn our marriage into a controlling relationship. That’s not to say I don’t watch closely for a few days and make mental notes.

Work on your self worth. I list my qualities every day, from the superficial ones (physical looks) to my character. And then I realise: if my WH would prefer someone else to me then his loss. Because I am freaking amazing!

DDay #1 was us lying in bed and listening to Spotify. I had his phone and a KIK message popped up from her. She was his new assistant and I already knew they talked a lot (I did warn him, she was a “talker” and she called him a lot for “work” questions )I said “what is this?” And he grabbed his phone and said “that’s my business” and went downstairs in a huff (oh what a fool I was). This led me to check our phone records and I saw the astronomical amount of texts and long phone calls. I flipped out. I locked him out of our bank account and called him names and went ballistic. He eventually convinced me it was “just” and EA and I believed him. He was very good at lying to me and pretending to have these talks and watched me suffer for 2 1/2 months. Actual DDay was our anniversary. I had this weird feeling to take his phone so I locked myself in our bathroom and scoured his phone. He had scrubbed it pretty well but somehow he had linked his map app to some Safari site and I saw all these 2+ hour visits to some address in a town an hour away. I said out loud to myself “please let this be some work related place” as he travels for work and I thought maybe it was a new place I wasn’t aware of on his route” I woke him up and said “what’s in this city” while showing him up what I found. He said “let’s go outside and hash this out” He confessed. It has been a PA all along . He told me everything. Mind you this was 1 in the morning. I told him to leave and go to her and be told me “no!” I made him call her but she didn’t answer. When he called her to tell AP I had found out she was incredulous; asked him why he didn’t deny it (looking back I realize he could have lied and told me they were just hanging out watching TV, which grossly they did in addition to screwing). Anyway, we amazingly got into a MC that same week. She gave us that Love Languages to read (I’m an Atheist and I almost turned it off because of the religious stuff but I stuck it out and I am glad I did) he listened too and came home on day 6 after DDay and fell into my arms and said “I’m sorry, I’m sorry for everything” he bad NEVER acted like this. He told me the next day that he had been listening to the audiobook on the way home from work and “the dam broke” and he had a breakdown sobbing and crying so badly he had to pull over twice. I’ve never seen this man cry in 24 years. I knew it happened . He said it all hit him at once and he woke up and realized the true carnage and destruction he had caused. I know things are different since DDay 1. He IS different man, I’m a different woman. I’m still scared. Trauma does that to someone. I’m afraid to let go and just love and trust him again. I loathe this existence. He is truly my best friend and favorite person in the world (messed up I know) we were friends for over a year before we even started dating so I don’t just love him I really like him too. We will be ok, he assured me this all the time. I just get so sad and scared during the work week when he’s not here with me 24/7. I’m working on it all. I do need a plan B which is what I’ve been avoiding. I need some control. I’m going to work on this. Unfortunately my immediate family that lives close I would not turn to for support (story for some other time) so I need to find someone else to confide in. I don’t have a lot of people who know, maybe that’s the problem.

You’ll get there. There’s no timeline to it, no rush. I think I got to the point where I was sick of it myself. It was like torture, I’d spend time at work laughing and go “oh, my husband could be cheating on me right now”. I’d always be in this state because in my mind, if I kept that state of “he could be doing it right now” it meant that when it happened I was prepared and I could say “I knew it”.

Then I realised I need to gentle with myself. Yes I had all these moments after dday when I pieced all the puzzle pieces together so I knew when they screwed and what I was doing at that time. And somehow knowing that was painful. Remembering that naive person who was laughing and feeling safe while her husband was screwing another woman made me want to prevent it from happening again. So you see, if I kept hyper vigilant ALL the time I wouldn’t be in that position again.

And as I said after a while I got sick of it. And I remembered that I need to be gentle with myself, yes, I was naive previously. I stupidly trusted him. Some things if I would write them here would really denote stupidity (getting an out of office reply from WH and believing him he’s in an all day meeting). I felt that if I would have been more vigilant I could have prevented it. Nope, that’s not on me. That’s on him. I was trusting. He was a liar. I’m not that person anymore and I do make my decisions based on what I know.

My WH was also my best friend and my everything. He says himself that there was nothing wrong with our marriage. We were still very close. He just felt entitled and decided to stray. Because... why not?

He’s not the same for me. I can’t perceive him as my best friend and my everything anymore, I can’t afford that risk. Of course I still love him, that’s why I’m still here. But I know I’m ok without him should he choose that path again.

You’ll get there and yes, plan B needs to be in place. You need to put yourself first, your person comes first. He can come second yes, but not at the cost of sacrificing yourself. That’s good, trust me. You’ll feel kick ass once you get there. You’ll feel like you will take no shit from anyone anymore.

Since then I’ve pulled people on bad behaviour towards me. Not just WH. I became this person that trusts herself to do well. I no longer let people get away with bad behaviour towards me just to keep the peace.

One of the things he that helped me get past the trauma (DDay 1 occurred and two weeks later he wants a D and is walking out the door) was my plan B.

Money

Support group or team

Professional counselor

Lawyer and mediator lined up if needed

Financial plan and documents at my fingertips

I knew I would be fine if we had divorced. I had children to consider as well. Divorce was not my first choice but if it had to happen it was going to be ok.

It eliminated the fears or doubts I had. I stopped being overly suspicious because i had the future figured out. I was no longer paralyzed by fear - I faced it head on.

Maybe this will help you.

I was severely traumatized, too, BDP. My subsequent Ddays were when I discovered there had been other OW that he refused to reveal. So I had to dig and dig, all while he lied and allowed me to think I had discovered "only" his EA. It really messes you up, and greatly damages your ability to trust them again.

I would say it took me at least 2 years to feel somewhat settled again. And another year yet of occasional blowups and doubts and thoughts that only D could solve this. That I'd never get over what he'd done. But with more time, and his consistent "good" behavior, i finally found myself feeling healed.

So how to manage this process? I wish I had good advice. It just felt like powering through each day. I did focus on my health and fitness, using the time to make some needed changes in my life. I think anything you can do to make yourself feel strong and positive helps. And realize we have little control over what they choose to do. I fought that hard and thought I needed to "fix" him. That thinking slowed me down because it put the focus on him rather than my own healing. And this is about your healing.

If your H is worth anything, he'll continue to do what is right. Continue to work on cleaning up the mess he's created. And support you in your healing, however long it takes. We are worth having good men in our lives, and your H now needs to prove his worth. This trauma holds tight but eventually we get through it. Sending you strength and wishes that you find your peace of mind soon, brokendollparts.

[This message edited by psychmom at 7:44 AM, July 6th (Saturday)]

The first time my fch got angry with me after dday, I shit him down. I said, "Don't you dare! You have no right to be angry with me!" The anger he felt had nothing to do with the A stuff, either. It was just normal life stuff. So, I get what you are saying about that.

His response to you flipping out could have been defensiveness. It also could've been frustration because he thinks he's doing everything he can and you still haven't gotten over his cheating. Neither is ok, but they are understandable, as are your feelings.

He has his feelings, which is fine. But, he needs to put yours first. He can express his frustration in a calm manner and ask what else he can do for you (sincerely, not in a "What else do you want from me?!" tone.).

BDP, what is he doing to fix himself? Is he in IC? Is he figuring out why he did this and how to prevent it from happening years down the line after the initial early R energy wears off?

Agree with other wise posters You can only control you. I think that what helped me to stay in the marriage the most was watching my husband's actions over time (there is that ugly word again: time). The fact that he is in IC every other week and support groups each week shows me that he is taking the work to be safe for me seriously. He is remorseful and supportive and compassionate and continuously takes responsibility for his actions and goes out of his way to tell me the truth, no matter what. All of this makes me feel safe. Do I still have triggers and moments of anger and fear? Yes. It helped us immensely to go to MC with someone who "got" infidelity. I feel like the counselor was able to translate the emotions I could not articulate into a language my husband could understand and vice versa He also taught me breathing exercises and meditation to help me stay out of the self-destructive obsessing.

What seems to help me a lot is this: assess his behaviour. Be open and tell him about my low moments and watch his reaction. Ask myself “did anything of consequence makes me think today that something happened?”

^^^^^^^This also.

bdp,

Having just dealt with a dying, infected root, I can understand how the pain could bring out some nasty behavior - I just don't know if that's what goes on with your H.

I do know that 18 months of R behavior was not enough for me to believe we would succeed. You went through 2 months of false R, and I didn't; if I had, I believe 18 months of consistent R behavior would be way, way less than I needed.

IOW, I think you may just be in the uncomfortable period between seeing good partnership as a possibility, but not knowing if you'll get there.

As I say, uncomfortable - but necessary. It's just too early to tell if your H will keep up is healing behavior.

(((brokendollparts))) - a hug, if you'd like one

((((BDP))))

It sucks let's just acknowledge that.

Accept it and understand that it is normal.

Part of thos is taking the power of the fear of what if away.

So for each of us that looks different.

For some ita fear of ending up alone for others its fear trying and it failing for others its just plain old shame and embarrassment.

You have to figure out what it is that you are afraid of if it all goes to shit. From there you can work to eliminate that fear.

For me it was a few of those things but once you know that no matter the outcome you will be ok life gets better.

Part of it has to be healing your heart and your own soul on your own. Part of it is just plain old time. Part is accepting that this is part of who you are now and will always be part of your story.

Take back control. Know that no matter what you will be ok. It is hard but trust me no matter the outcome you will be ok. In fact you will be stronger and braver and happier than you have ever been because you survived a significant and very real trauma.

I had false R several times. But we made it and I made it. I am no longer a CoD and will always make time and space for my happiness and needs. He is lucky to have me and he knows it. I am a fucking Queen. So are you!!!

Bdp- you had two threads relatively close together that were both had a similar theme. You are having a lot of trouble finding peace. First you will never ever be sure that anyone else is being authentic. To strive for that is difficult. Here are some ways to feel a little more sure.

1) my husband’s demeanor between dday 1 and 2 was night and day. Walls were up before dday 2. He was more defensive. He constantly insisted he was doing everything he could. After dday 2, he was much different. In addition I had anxiety before dday 2. I believe this was my body’s way of alerting me something was still off.

2) my husband and I don’t always talk about the affair directly. I actually gain more information about my husband’s state of mind from our talks about other people. If we talk about another couple who has been involved in infidelity, his body language and his response tells me volumes about his level of remorse and disgust for what he did.

3) I learned to ask questions like “what are you thinking about” and “what are you feeling”. This helped me feel more connected and confident he wasn’t keeping secrets.

4) we spent a lot of time together.

In addition to those things, it would be a very good idea if you did some things to help yourself. I think a problem you are having is hyper focusing on the fact your husband might be still untrustworthy. Here’s the thing- worrying about that won’t change anything. In addition, anything we focus on snowballs. So my suggestion is to try to practice redirecting your thoughts. When you have an intrusive thought say about false R do these steps:

1) acknowledge it. Tell yourself that it is valid and understandable. It certainly has happened

2) allow yourself a few minutes to reflect on it. Don’t just stuff it. Feel the feelings and process the thoughts. But limit the time.

3) remind yourself that this is something that has happened but to the best of your knowledge isn’t still happening. That it is in the past. That it’s ok to spend a few minutes reflecting on it, but that you are ready to move onto what is currently happening.

4) Redirect your thoughts. In the beginning I had a thought ready to redirect to. Maybe it’s an upcoming vacation or plans for the future. Something that is happy and that you are looking forward to. I don’t really have thoughts on the ready now but back when I was recovering, I definitely did.

The more you practice these steps the easier they become. Also the better you feel. I found I felt a lot better when I stopped allowing the thoughts to snowball. I think it also helps your self esteem because eventually you get to a place where you know your worth and you realize that if your spouse wants a different life it will be their loss not yours.

One more thing- It took me a long time to get over separation anxiety. I’d be fine until right before my husband went to work and then I really struggled. One day that anxiety just kind of faded.

All I can say is thank you for sharing this. I'm also suffering from PTSD from the trauma of the As and the FR. My therapist thinks the FR is the worst of my anxiety right now.

The only way I get through the rough spots is reminding myself that IF I ever find out that he's keeping secrets from me, it's completely on him and I've obviously tried everything to have an authentic relationship, of which he is not able. Most times that gives me some peace. Then I remind myself of the differences I'm seeing between the FR timeframe and the post FR timeframe. He's not acting the same. SO much has changed in him.