SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I wanted to respond to a question in the Wayward section, but didn’t want to T/J the great post that it was on

I had made a comment that more than a few Betrayed men’s WW are under the impression that the marriage has never better after their affair, while the betrayed husband suffers in silence. Not always the case, as it is in the post that the question came up, but far more often than most WW think.

My take is that communication gets better, which in turn makes the marriage better on that level, the WW don’t have the same feelings as how the sexual aspect of what they did tarnishes the marriage. To them the affair worked like a charm to make the marriage better for them, while the BS suffers, mostly in silence, while having visions of their WW having sex with their AP. For the men they want to keep the marriage, so it’s not worth it for them to open the can of worms. They don’t want to send their WW back into a shame cycle, so they just swallow the sandwich.

When it finally does come up, the WW is shocked. Because her needs were being met now, they assume that their BS needs were also. When things finally come to a head they can’t understand why the BS hasn’t said anything. They don’t say anything as they don’t want to rock the boat.

My EX never thought things were great, but she certainly thought things were good enough. She also believed good enough would eventually go back to great. What she didn’t understand was almost everytime we had sex, in my mind I pictured her on all fours with him. I didn’t bring it up, but it was there. It finally blew up and she was crushed. It was my fault for not laying track as to what I was feeling

I think we see this in other posts where these feelings pop up after sometimes 40 years of the BS stuffing it down.

It’s just a cautionary note. The pain may lessen, but it’s always there.

waited, I'm a little confused here. You never told your W that the mind-movies never went away, kept it bottled up inside until it blew-up, then express dismay that she never understood and was shocked?

I'm perfectly happy rocking the boat. I'm a veritable boat-rockin' fool (because I can swim).

I'm wondering what the cautionary tale is, exactly? That a WW lives in a dream world or that a BH keeps too much inside?

On a related note, some weeks ago I was in a slightly pain-shoppingy mood so I went to the Reconciliation section to look at the "Positive Reconciliation Stories" thread. I was somewhat taken aback at how relatively few male posters there were.

I relate to this. Very insightful and that is one benefit to be gained from the perspective of others.

After a time of being an intermittent raging asshole or whining puppy I decided to STFU about her A since talking about it wasn't helping anyway and actually made it worse in some ways.

So yes, I guess I swallowed the s*** sandwich and stopped rubbing her nose in what she had done which basically was a MLC affair with someone who lavished her with attention and affection. She couldn't undo it and in reality I was wallowing in it all. Not a good thing to see in myself when clarity finally began to return.

I decided to work on me rather than the marriage and to just be kind to her. The turbulence smoothed out and it is all much better except that the other reality is pretty much what you described.

Is this something more prevalent with men I wonder?

That sucks... Never suffer in silence!!!

Luckily I never had much issues w mind movies of my wife w AP... Before marriage I had huge sexual experiences, including many 3somes (MFF), plenty one night stands, orgies, and about 4 times more hookups than her, so whatever she did with AP was pretty much "meh", for me

Would love to know if other betrayed husbands have had similar experience

Since it was my post, I don't think I will get in trouble for repeating my response here:

I think this was a big precipitator as to why I learned to bring up the affair. A lot of my items I listed I learned the hard way - by not doing them at first. Having read here it's apparent some BS's, and it does seem to be particularly the BH's more often - they seem to describe feelings that they are not sharing with their WS. I have participated in a lot of the BH threads and have noticed that many of the complaints they had were unvoiced. I have decided *some* males are not as practiced with sharing their feelings, deciphering their feelings. I think it's social conditioning. But, this made me very aware that couples are often not on the same page after infidelity.

I would never sit and claim to have a perfect marriage. I think for decades prior to the A I would have probably said that it was. I do think we had faired well in comparison to what I knew of other marriages. After the affair, I think we have become more brutally honest with each other. And, that aspect is both good and bad at times but it's a net positive. Being present and the work involved causes a lot of fatigue on both sides. I think it can actually kill some of the joy of the marriage. We have really had to work on recalibrating that sometimes we just enjoy each other and keep it simple to give each other a break from the fatigue.

I can't tell you how many times that a BS has said something and I thought I would rather mine tell me if that is what he is thinking. I realize that's not always the case. But, at the point that there has been an affair, there is little left for a BS to lose in being brutally honest. I know it's a hard thing to do, but in the end, us getting there was imperative. I am glad I read at this site and pushed because I can see this would have been an issue for us as well.

I think for some people - their situation is just not one either worth getting over or there are particulars that are going to be a blockage for moving forward. So, I don't necessarily think that just because you didn't feel you could talk with your wife that it necessarily would have changed the outcome. You just may not have been able to accept it in the end regardless. I say that because I do believe that sometimes you blame yourself for not being able to make it work, but the reality is your WS did break the marriage by having an affair. Floundering afterwards is not something to feel guilty about.

I imagine a great deal of people suffer in silence about infidelity.

But one great lesson I got from SI is if I want to stay in the relationship, I best tell my wife everything that’s in my brain.

Otherwise, she wouldn’t have much of a chance to help me to help us.

That said, my wife is the opposite of the WS you mention. She doesn’t ever make the claim things are great even when they are going great or I tell her I think things are going well.

Our marriage is better now, but my wife never feels as comfortable about where we are. She really goes at everyday as if it’s the first week of our meeting each other — every single day for over four years now.

And her effort inspires mine.

I think we used to take our M for granted in different ways (none of that excuses her choices), and now we don’t.

At this pace, I doubt my wife would ever make any claim about our relationship, other than she is working to make today better than yesterday.

I’ve seen this in person twice. Three times actually. BH. Still married. For years.

In public, at work, at church, with their WW’s around they would seem ok. They went to the seminars, did IC/MC, etc etc.

But get them alone up at the cabin, a couple of drinks in.....broken men.

The choice was lose half of their assets and be a part time parent, or suck it up. So their put on a brave face, and soldier on in utter sadness internally.

[This message edited by ramius at 10:56 AM, September 2nd (Wednesday)]

My wife never did make the claim things were great. She knew better than that. I think as I said she felt things were good enough for us to stay married, and that in time I would heal and things could be great again.

Unhinged, I never said I was the sharpest tool in the shed. She knew the sex was a shadow of what it once was. Due to the incredibly humiliating part of her sex with him, so much of what we once enjoyed was off the table. I won’t elaborate, but it’s in my revised profile.

I think for her was the shock of me one day out of the blue telling her I was done. That was my fault for not telling her the direction I was heading and how I was feeling. I was such an asshole the first year. I made it into a sport to see how fast I could reduce her to tears. It’s one of the biggest regrets of my life. I vowed that I would never do that again, and the pendulum went too far to where I didn’t want to see her collapse again. So what we had can be described by like being on anti depressants. No highs, and no lows. But that’s not a recipe for a good marriage. I describe myself as being cordial to her.

So bottom line she wasn’t in my case thinking that the affair was a big win for the marriage, but it wasn’t the death of it either. This is opposed to the WW who may think it was a good thing they had an affair even though they won’t admit it. They got great fun sex, got validation from another guy, and then their marriage is better because he now finally communicates with her. Not always, but in more cases than you think

[This message edited by waitedwaytoolong at 11:01 AM, September 2nd (Wednesday)]

I know SI frowns on MC, but there is no way my marriage would’ve survived without it. There is a lot of outside pressure to just get over infidelity. Waywards (without SI) tend to not understand the trauma and would prefer to rugsweep. Our MC would not let any of that happen. He would constantly reiterate to my WH that he had to listen to my pain and to me that I had to get those feelings out (although I had to be respectful and resist the urge to name call, etc). Without that, we would have definitely divorced.

We were close to divorcing a lot anyway over the first 2 years, even with MC. It’s so hard. I can completely understand how BH would keep their feelings bottled up, but I really wish they wouldn’t. Keeping feelings bottled up is what led to my WH cheating in the first place. It just creates toxic resentments.

I am one of those WW. I thought things were great, better than ever. Then boom! When the thing happened this year, that made BH think I was taking something from him, that made him happy, it was all back to the surface. Ten years of accumulated resentments came roaring back to life and now we are seperated, possibly divorcing. There's alot at play there, but what's happening with us, would not be happening if not for the original betrayl ten years ago.

I think my H is a perfect example of sucking it up, eating the sandwich and being quiet until something happened he couldn't be quiet anymore.

And there I was, in total shock he felt the way he did/ does. Saying once again, " but wait! It can be better than ever now!" oops. He already did that, and he's not so sure he wants to or is capable of doing it again.

I first of all want to say thank you to all of the male BS's here who are brave enough to finally talk about how they feel and what they are going thru, even on an anonymous forum, it still helps others. So again thank you.

But I do want to say that women BS's have been eating this shit storm for a long time. They too stay silent many times until they cannot anymore. They too stay so that they don't lose half of their income or half of their time with their children. Women have been out in the work force for a long time and contribute to family income, so it is for sure a shit show of huge proportions no matter if you are male or female.

Trust me when I tell you that women have mind movies as well, all the time, it never ends. But we will have a male on the other side who "doesn't want to talk about it" or "won't talk about it" and so we get it from the opposite side, but still just as much of a shit show.

Again I don't wish this pain on anyone, and I do agree with you that if you have a WS who "thinks all is OK" yet has no clue or talked to the BS about what they are going thru, then at any time a BS who has stopped talking about it is actually counting the minutes and hours until they finally can walk out.

It is sad, a BS who stays and is hoping and praying they have a WS who gets it and understands is someone who has offered a gift to the WS. But many times that gift does have an expiration date.

[This message edited by realitybites at 1:51 PM, September 2nd (Wednesday)]

WWTL,

Communication was never going to save your marriage. It just would have ended it sooner.

Honesty isn't everything. I wish my ex had not married me. I could have found something else that had a chance. My marriage never had a chance, since my ex never forsook all others. You need to either forget about the people from before the marriage, or let your current partner go. Or you can lie and have the best of both worlds, I guess. Lying certainly worked for my ex. So much for honesty.

So I am divorced. I am honest first and foremost with myself. Next are the children. Next may be a partner. Intimacy is one thing, honesty another. We have three choices, LTR, dating without LTR, singlehood. Of course you can have serial LTR, or LTR with a little something on the side as well. If you're willing to lie.

I'm not willing to lie. What I do have to do is withhold some part of myself so that if someone pulls crap again, I can survive it. I can't be the guy in the marriage again. Piece of paper or no. So any "brutal honesty" in a LTR is to some extent a part I play.

I have come to this over the years in processing my divorce. Many BS may come to the same realization after the trauma inflicted by the WS, after all the IC, MC, and brutal honesty. That the seed of damage, planted by the WS, continues to grow inside them, creating the self that can survive further potential betrayals, while everyone's being open and honest and things are great.

This is the thread for me!!

Same ol' situation. WW basically rugswept her A, and thinks that we have made it to a place better than ever. She talks about how great it is that we've "worked through all that". The A was 2 months long, and it was happening 4 years ago, fall 2016. She claims that she barely remembers anything about it now, she only feels disgust for him. They had sex 7 times, and she claims to have no real memories of those 7 times. She says for her it was an EA, and that the sex was "nothing special at all". The thing is, I truly believe she thinks all these things now. She truly believes we have worked through it. The A almost NEVER comes up anymore. It has pretty much been erased from our lives.

Except that I think about it every single fucking day!! I do not live in agony. I do not hate/dislike my wife. We're a pretty good bill paying / child raising team. Our sex life is fairly active, but she also puts very little effort into our sex life. I don't really have mind movies. In fact, I have oddly tried to picture them having sex, but I can't.

One thing is for sure... if it weren't for young children and finances, we wouldn't be together. Like AHGUY and many others, I run my own business. I have heard horror stories of other men in my field getting royally FUCKED OVER in a D settlement. Also, I love being with my kids everyday, I have no desire to be a weekend Dad. My kids are both pretty young, so it's gonna be a long haul. But like I said, we don't have an unhappy home. My kids have no idea that Mom and Dad have ever had any problems. My youngest doesn't turn 18 for another 11 years, so it's not likely to change anytime soon.

My wife would be absolutely SHOCKED if she knew that I'm still struggling like this, 4 years later. She is completely over it... why can't I be? Should be simple, right?

waitedwaytolong & realitybites - both are correct

unless you undergo a lobotomy - the memory of the infidelity is forever part of your being

so somehow you self-rationalize your choice of direction (stay together) and also reserve the right to change direction (separate) if you finally have had enough of living with the person who gave you the memory right in front of you

infidelity is a gift of a lifetime memory

I do want to say that women BS's have been eating this shit storm for a long time. They too stay silent many times until they cannot anymore. They too stay so that they don't lose half of their income or half of their time with their children. Women have been out in the work force for a long time and contribute to family income, so it is for sure a shit show of huge proportions no matter if you are male or female.

Trust me when I tell you that women have mind movies as well, all the time, it never ends. But we will have a male on the other side who "doesn't want to talk about it" or "won't talk about it" and so we get it from the opposite side, but still just as much of a shit show.

Funny, I was just about to post something nearly identical.

For the BETRAYED SPOUSES WHO want to keep the marriage, it’s not worth it for them to open the can of worms. They don’t want to send their WS back into a shame cycle, so they just swallow the sandwich…..

I fixed it for you.... it's not about gender. It's about being betrayed. And FWIW, I would also describe myself as being "cordial" to my WS.

To me, it's not "about" being a BH or a BW. It's "about" how a WS steps up to the plate and does the work.

her effort inspires mine.

To me, this is the key. Without that inspiring effort, R is likely just not gonna happen, no matter what the genders. No matter what the mountain of healing looks like for any particular BS. While the language may not be as straightforward, don't the books and "resources" all pretty much say the same thing? That a WS put forth the effort to "inspire" the BS to heal and respond in kind?

I think the R that WWTL describes is one in which that inspiration never shows up. One in which the BS is left to drive the R bus pretty much alone. The BS may decide to put it in park and step away from the driver seat, and with that choose to stop even trying. That's my sitch today.

Brene Brown cautions to be vulnerable with "those who have earned the right to our stories". Unless & until the WS EARNS that right, I can certainly see why a BS (male or female) would choose to keep up their guard. Choose to not share the mind movies. Choose to leave the bus in idle - not driving it, maybe hoping the WS will figure out how to get behind the wheel and put it in gear, but not walking away either. Chose to find a way to be cordial, while not really "in R".

ETA:

My marriage never had a chance, since my ex never forsook all others.

Me too.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 1:27 PM, September 2nd, 2020 (Wednesday)]

R is impossible unless both partners raise their issues so they can be resolved.

Now, for some things, the resolution is to accept one's partner as they are or leave. I don't like all the ways my W's handles her health issues. She certainly dislikes the way I handle mine. The solution is that she does her thing for her. I do my thing for me.

But sex needs teamwork. I have great sympathy for BSes and WSes who have issues with their sex lives but don't bring them up. We did/didn't do that - we both wanted more from sex but thought the other didn't. My W's A was the catalyst for bringing it up. We gave up a lot of pleasure by not bringing it up earlier, but better late than ever.

But the issue wasn't the sex. It was the supposed conflict avoidance - 'supposed' because we were not in conflict except with our own fears.

After infidelity, it really is important NOT to accept the current relationship unless you like it as it is.

Of course, the one can ask:

Do relationships end because partners avoid necessary conflict?
Or do partners avoid necessary conflict because they're not ready for the relationships to end?
And how many relationships get better because the partners delay confronting issues?

In any case, I'm for confronting issues when they arise, since that has worked better for me than burying them.

I think the R that WWTL describes is one in which that inspiration never shows up. One in which the BS is left to drive the R bus pretty much alone. The BS may decide to put it in park and step away from the driver seat, and with that choose to stop even trying. That's my sitch today.

I think WWTL's xWW tried. She did offer up all of the sex acts she did with AP. Problem is in that situation is the two of them had talked about the acts, she said they were too painful. AP was an aggressive asshole who insisted and she was compliant.

So which is the honest her? The one in the years of marriage, the one in the A, or the one post A? This "new marriage" bit is thrown out, but often BS stay because of the capital they've already invested in the marriage. Sometimes the A blows up too much capital, makes too many things that happened in the marriage (that BS thought were honest at the time) look like lies, or throw them into question.

I guess in WWTL's case I like the man I see here today, damage and all, more than I would like the man that would stay in the marriage, given the detail's of his xWW's A.

I'm not sure that I would limit what oldwounds terms "effort [that] inspires" to merely "offer[ing] up all of the sex acts". Sure, the sex is ONE form of "effort"... and it may "inspire" a BS. But it's only the cheese.... not the whole enchilada IMHO.

This topic is my truth and my life. The comments perfectly describe what and how I feel.

Ask my wife, ask our family, ask our friends, co-workers and acquaintances and they will all tell you how lucky we are. How lucky I am. That we are one of the few who have a happy marriage and few others have as happy a marriage. Ask my wife and she will say the same thing. None of them have any idea that even after 35+ years I have the same thoughts every single day.

With the passage of time it no longer pains me like it once did but what she did it is still there. Usually it is like a dull background noise and I can usually ignore it so that it does not really affecting my functioning. But it is always there. Always. And sometimes it just becomes too much and I feel the resentment bubbling inside and I have to take some time by myself to try and control it until it all settles back down to the level of background noise once again.

WWTL, thank you for this thread/topic (I read everything you post) and thank you to all who have posted here.