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We have made it to over 3 years post DDay, and although we are still together, technically, we have devolved into almost roommates now. I know there have been alot of hurtful things we have both said to each other over the last few years, especially during arguments when her affair was brought up, but it now seems like there is very little connection anymore.

It took so much from me trying to battle with her to go NC, plus my health issues, some of which are very, very stress related, have almost destroyed my spirit in that now there is no fight left in me, I'm all used up. As for her the fight has gone from fighting me to keep her "friend" to now fighting me on almost anything I do at least once each day, from the simplest of things to big issues. And then she wonders why I don't feel particularly amorous last thing at night or any other time tbh. Though she will hardly ever instigate anything in the bedroom either. She will through out excuses like not feeling great, tiredness, or even say her sex drive is gone (quoting menopause).

I suppose the question I am asking is that is there any chance of recovery from this position, has anyone recovered from an almost stalemate of indifference by both the WS and the BS? I don't think either one of us wants to divorce but I don't think the situation as it stands can continue either.

Let’s say your best friend was going through what you have. Dead bedroom, a wife who doesn’t seem very remorseful and took a long time to go NC despite what it was doing to you. What would you tell them? Does this sound like a marriage worth salvaging or has your wife effectively killed it?

I would have to ask, given everything in total, what are you fighting for?

This is very similar to how it went in my M after the A was discovered with MOW. He wasn't remorseful and kept seeing MOW while telling me it had ended. It is often said here it isn't the A that ends the M but what transpires after it is discovered. I believe this to be true in my case. We also had many arguments, arguments that my XWS said "pushed him away." Between the lack of respect for each other and both not willing to work on the M I finally pulled the plug. I was in limbo for 5 years after False R and I never saw an ounce of remorse from him. We too had a dead bedroom but it was because I was no longer into the M or wanting to have sex with him. We did not recover.

I think people can overcome almost anything if the remorse is genuine. If it occurred to your WW that she had treated you horribly, not only by having a lengthy affair, but then by hanging onto it for so long... if she REALLY grasped the severity of what she had done and was genuinely remorseful for having done it, yeah, I can see how a situation like that might be recoverable. But from what you're describing, I'm not feeling the sorry. Now, that doesn't mean she's not remorseful, it only means that you're not conveying it. So either it's not there, or you're unable to discern it. Neither one is good or useful in R.

It's not going to help you feel her remorse when you have this loss of connection happening. That's not always about love or attraction though. If my fWH had had a heart attack, I'd be scared to death of touching him for fear of him popping off in more ways than one, yeah? And menopause really IS a thing. So it's possible that what's going on, or rather not going on, in your bedroom is unrelated to whether or not there's still meaningful feelings between you. Losing that sexual connection denies you both the emotional reinforcement of showing your affection for one another and that's lamentable.

All in all, I'd say your marriage has as much hope of recovery as anyone else's, but it takes work. Three years past dday is not necessarily enough time for you to have healed from the betrayal injuries, and her recalcitrance has set you back so far that it's not even accurate to call it three years. She did a whole lot of additional damage by refusing to stop contact and not stopping of her own volition. In a lot of ways, you guys are still at square one. So, it all boils down to whether or not you're both where you want to be or if you're just stalled and paralyzed by indecision. The downside of killing time is that you really can waste it all though.

My advice would be to decide where you want to be. You absolutely are NOT obliged to stay if you're not feeling it anymore. No cheater is owed a second chance. So, you decide if you're in the right place or not, and then whether you believe she's sincerely where she wants to be. "All in" or "all out", right? If you both want to continue, then it's probably wise to get some help in therapy.

The grousing during the day isn't helping your connection but it's probably a symptom of two people feeling bereft of the loving bond they're suppose to have. And that doesn't always have to mean sex. It's not impossible that you would be able to work through the heart attack and menopause issues, so sex isn't necessarily off the table, but it's not the only game in town either. There needs to be some kind of outlet for affection, even if that's just cuddling, hugging, holding hands, rubbing feet, or any number of physical displays. The problem is that these kind of conversations are hard to have and even harder to keep honest. A good therapist could help with communications. Your WW has an obvious history of disregarding your feelings as we see through her cheating and then her recalcitrance regarding contact. Sometimes a professional third party adds gravitas to the discussion.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:01 PM, Tuesday, June 28th]

These rarely get better without infidelity in the mix.

I'd throw in the towel.

Life's too short and you deserve so much better, based on what you posted you haven't had a real M in a very long time, you still have a dead bedroom and your WW is light years from being a good candidate for R and it sounds like she's not even trying to be one, IMHO time to pull the plug.

My H and I haven’t had sex, kissed, or even touched on purpose in any way for over three years. I have zero desire to ever, ever again.

We are roommates who are raising our two young kids, one of whom is disabled.

No coming back from it in our case.

If part of what you need to stick around is your sexual needs being met, lay that out as a necessity. Not a request.

My WW refused to meet my sexual needs for far too long prior to DD. Once I accepted that the status quo wasn't acceptable and told her that (again, not as a request) I began to get my needs met. Funny enough, she has responded well to being a certain way less and being another way more.

I'm not suggesting you forcefully take what you want. But I'm definitely not suggesting you roll over for someone who isn't fair with you. Rather, I'm telling you that her action/inaction should have measurable consequences. Don't give her your best whike she offers yoy table scraps.

Make it less of a request and more of a baseline for considering staying while telling and showing her that.

I've learned that you don't have to be emotionally close with someone who treats you nasty. But you also don't need to be emotionally available to someone who you have your physical needs met by who isn't emtionally available to you.

Call it what it is and don't fart around with false pretenses. Arrangements can be arrangements if you follow me.

[This message edited by NotMyFirstRodeo at 2:49 AM, Wednesday, June 29th]

I couldn't bring myself to have sex with my cheater after the last DDay. I stayed for the financial and emotional support (sick child) for several months afterwards, then he ended it on account of us "living like roommates". I'm glad it's over now. My biggest regret is not leaving after DDay1.

[This message edited by morningglory at 5:37 AM, Wednesday, June 29th]

CJ, I completely understand, man. Much of what you wrote I could have written a few years ago. When I finally realized that I had "no fight left in me," that I felt "all used up," I told my Ex that I wanted a divorce.

Infidelity is a deal-breaker. It's just that simple. After my HSGF cheated on me with one of my best friends, I resolved that infidelity would never again be a part of my life. And as much as I wanted to reconcile and live happily ever-after, I was never going to trust her the way I once had, I was never going to respect her the way I once had, and I was never going to love her the way she wanted to be loved.

I don't know if there's a silver-lining on your horizon. It's possible, I suppose. I think by the time a relationship gets to the point you're describing it's pretty much over.

Separating was hard. We were together for about twenty years. That's a long time in dog years.

I'm much happier today. I don't regret my decision. I hate that my son and I don't get to spend as much time together as we did a year ago. I miss him when he's not around. It seems he's happier as well, not being around two asslings constantly at each others' throats.

Why do you want to stay married?

Why do you think your wife wants to stay married?

I can't answer your question. I can say that when my W and I disagree, we work together to fidn a resolution we can live with. We don't fight each other. We resolved conflicts together before her A, and we went back to than on d-day.

Sometimes we end up going our own different ways; I like what I like, and she likes what she likes. But we have always come to a solution we are both OK with when we can't go our own ways, and we tend to be happy with the solutions - unless my W goes into her co-dependent mode, which doesn't work out for long anyway.

At least that's what I think we do. If I didn't - if I thought we were still fighting each other, I'd like to think I'd conclude we weren't a good fit for each other, and I'd like to think I'd walk.

I believe that if you both want to be together, you can resolve your issues. Do you really want to be with her?

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:32 PM, Thursday, June 30th]

Have you or your W done any IC? Look man, no one would blame you if you pursued a D.

If I may ask why haven't you out things in motion to D your unremorseful WW?

A lot of us hope we can R. Nothing wrong with that, but too often I see BS losing themselves trying to hang onto a M that us basically over. Non infidelity impacted Ms have this sonetimes too.

If you are really done you have to lay your cards on the table. Status quo isn't good for you. I think IC for both of you (if you haven't tried it yet)

That aside I don't see this being resolved for either of you. D remains your only chance of having a relationship with someone that loves you for you and not just what you provide for them.

Life us too short to go that long without that intimate connection we all need to feel validated and safe.

Ff1452 – My wife has certainly done a lot of damage to our marriage, not only in the affair but her actions afterwards, I am fighting for that very slim chance things can recover, and I have been fighting for that for a few years now, I am at the point now where I am seeing that the fight is possibly not worth it anymore, without things changing soon I will have to take a different course.

Crazyblindsided – I am sorry you had to go through that for so long, and I understand, there are too many times my WW has shown zero remorse for her actions, I am not sure if I am in false R or just white knuckling the marriage as it stands, but I will find out soon enough.

ChamomileTea – you are correct in that nothing is past saving, our issue is that when we try to have those very hard conversations they normally devolve in to plain old arguments, I don’t think my WW ever got past the idea that any affair talk was me just rubbing her nose in what she had done like a puppy that has weed on the carpet, she never stopped to actually listen to what I was trying to tell her about how I felt, so we never really understood each other past dday. I know where I want to be, which is happily married to my wife, the question is, is that does she want to be there with me, or has her feelings for me gone?

NotMyFirstRodeo – I plan on talking to her about this this weekend, about our dead bedroom, if she refuses to even contemplate changes or once again blames me, or comes up with medical excuses which she refuses to investigate, then I will have my answer and will have to start the process to have my own life. If however she actually owns her side of things and suggests ways things can be changed then we will give it some more time to see if things can be fixed.

Unhinged – it is a tough choice to make after 27 years together, especially where there is a significant chance financially I will be much worse off afterwards, but it is a choice I may have to make, you do only have one life, my heart attack showed how fragile it can be, and we are not put on this earth to be unhappy so much of the time.

BluerthanBlue – I want my marriage to get back to where it should be, I still love my wife, as for her I hope she still loves me and doesn’t want to stay married just for my paycheck, her actions at the moment show that I am living on hopium, I could be wrong but I am unsure if I am.

Sisoon – simply put, yes I want to be with her, but have realised over the last 3 years that her actions are those of one who does not want to fix what she did, but rugsweep it away and I am realising her actions recently seem to be those of someone who is trying to push me away so that when I file for divorec she can say it isn’t her fault. This is a hard pill to swallow when she is the one who has put us in this situation in the first place.

Numb&dumb - Life is too short, and I know sex isn’t supposed to be a big part of a marriage, but the lack of it is indicating some pretty big issues we have, compounded by everything else that is going on.

As I have said above, this weekend I will be talking to her about things, seeing if she is anywhere near the same page as me, and she isn’t then seeing if she wants to be on the same page or not. Its a pretty simple choice for us, work together ALL the time or figure things out separately.

...our issue is that when we try to have those very hard conversations they normally devolve in to plain old arguments, I don’t think my WW ever got past the idea that any affair talk was me just rubbing her nose in what she had done...

Talking is healing, and not all conflict is bad. You can't repair a problem unless you talk about it together and unless you face the conflict. Try looking up "the four horseman gottman" and reading what articles you find. It will help you avoid communications pitfalls. After that, consider choosing ONE issue, just one. And then don't allow her to move you away from it. ie.

"We're not talking about that right now. If you want to discuss it, we can budget some time for later. Right now, we're discussing this".

Do not be budged. If she won't discuss your topic, she doesn't get to discuss anything. Tell her to let you know when she's ready to talk about "this topic" and walk away. You don't even have to be mean about it, just stoic and unyielding.

If your discussion is about your sex life, why connect it to the infidelity? That's just clouding the waters and bringing in more than you resolve on your own and in one go. Consider narrowing your target down to bite-sized pieces and tackling them one by one.

I want my marriage to get back to where it should be, I still love my wife, as for her I hope she still loves me and doesn’t want to stay married just for my paycheck, her actions at the moment show that I am living on hopium, I could be wrong but I am unsure if I am.

Was your marriage ever the way you think should be? I think it's worth giving serious thought and reflection to that question. It's possible to get back some or maybe even most of a relationship you lost, but you can't get back a relationship that never existed, especially not in the wake of an affair.

Did you ever feel like your wife adored, desired, and respected you? Prior to Dday, did she ever make sacrifices for you and put you first? Or was she always a rather selfish and callous person, you just didn't notice or give it much thought before she had an affair?

I agree with what someone said about other ways to connect other than outright sex. Like stepping stones back to the full Monty.

You know, when little ones are born and for whatever reason, they are not touched or held, they develop something called "failure to thrive". It’s an emotional AND a physical thing. Totally real.

I have always felt, and told my FWH that I have adult failure to thrive…because what he did - created such a divide between us.

Maybe trying just the slightest touches could begin a reconnection. Like hi five, or a simple pat on the back, or a lingering touch if you are scooting them over to make room for you to sit on the couch.

Maybe you already do this kind of thing. Just whatever you already do, step it up just a bit. Be careful not to let it become more unless you feel as certain as you can be that it will be a positive experience. For both of you.

I can tell you it has been over 15 years since my H has touched me AT ALL. I do touch him as his caregiver.

I am totally starved for touch. My grand babies help out with that greatly 😊

But it’s not their job!

It’s really hard not being touched enough, or not at all.

If you are serious about trying to save the relationship, what do you have to lose?

Because it seems like you feel it slipping away already.

Just my 2 cents. Or less…depending on who ur asking.

I wish you good luck!

SCJ did you end up having a talk on the weekend?
What is it that you really want out of life now? Set that target and work towards it with or without her.

I am realising her actions recently seem to be those of someone who is trying to push me away so that when I file for divorce she can say it isn’t her fault.

This is a common tactic. Try to be such a poor partner that the other person will leave you and you won't be seen as the bad guy. Cheaters aren't known for good communication or sense of fairness, so when they want an easy way out, they often try this.

Be emotionally and practically prepared that she might beat you to the punch if you don't go ahead and file. She does not seem to value your marriage.

[This message edited by morningglory at 2:21 PM, Sunday, July 10th]

We finally got around to having the talk and apart from her still claiming to be now suffering with a low sex drive (an issue she never had during her affair) she is willing to go to doctors to get checked in case she is going through early menopause.

She also said she is very self conscious now as she has put weight on over the last few years (weight she lost to appeal more to the AP!!) whilst I have stayed in shape (partly due to training partly due to a strict diet following my HA). I will be encouraging her to get back into shape, I myself need to train more having lost a bit of muscle due to illness recently.

We have both promised to set aside moree time together, and she will be ALOT more mindful if how she talks to me, she had not realised how she has been with me recently taking her stress out on me, until my eldest pointed out to her she was like it nearly every day..

The sex part will hopefully improve but I have made it clear that a dead bedroom is not acceptable.. For either of us.. Things change or we will most likely end up divorced.. Sex isn't everything in a marriage, but the lack of it is a big issue.

She is also finally due to go away to a music festival next week.. With a friend and NOT her AP. And I think the rose tinted glasses have finally gone as she is happy to go without him.