SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi CBM,

I definitely think it is a good idea for your wife to start posting in the Wayward forum. There are several people there who really understand the impact of infidelity, and who will be able to advise your wife based on what they did to try and rectify the damage that their infidelity did.

The fact that your wife knows about your thread does not necessarily mean that you cannot still post questions to get feedback on. And reading the responses you get may help your wife understand why her infidelity and how she handled things afterwards have had such an impact years later.

I have sent you a PM (private message).

I wouldn't worry that your wife is reading your thread. If anything, I would look at it as a positive. The topic of telling/not telling your spouse about this site is one that varies from situation to situation. In your case, being that I believe reconciliation is what you both seek, and are reasonably committed to, I feel that maybe your wife should read....in your own words....your real-life struggles.

If I was to guess, I would assume that you want to see some urgency and empathy from your wife. I hope that she read my post a few pages back, because I do believe that she is missing important opportunities to get things on the right track. Whether it be hubris, ignorance, misunderstanding, or a plain disregard of the current situation, your marriage is on the threshold of going the wrong way fast if she can't help you through your pain. I am a strong believer in total honesty and transparency, so that is why I think that her reading your posts can be a huge benefit. Maybe now that you know she has the ability to see your words and your thoughts, that you might curtail your posts going forward, but until you knew she saw this thread, you put your honest pain and struggles into words....words that she now has the 'gift' to see. I hope that she takes advantage of this. I hope that she sees that those words of pain were not scripted---they are your current nightmares that you live with.

I'm sorry to read about your situation CantBeMe123. I'm also sorry that your safe-space has been compromised.

I've read your posts and just wanted to let you know that I'm glad that you have the state of mind to take control of the situation. The demands you've put upon your wife aren't unreasonable.

The main goal, regardless of your decision or the ultimate outcome of your marriage, is to get yourself through this shit-storm relatively mentally intact. This will affect the way you look at your wife and your marriage from now onward but it doesn't have to be a bad thing forever.

Your wife made choices that have negatively tainted the beginning of your story. It's now your turn to choose the ending of your story. I think you have the ability to make this a happy ending. You're still making a living, have great kids, and have a good life. As long as your wife is willing to put in the time and effort to fix this, you've got a good shot at closing the story on a happy note.

I strongly agree with the post-nuptial agreement. You must ensure that she's represented by her own counsel even if she's not contesting. You must also ensure that it can't be said that she didn't understand what she was signing or that she signed under any form of duress. This is usually part of the questioning during the agreement signing. And make sure you have a great divorce lawyer who knows how to make post and pre-nuptials ironclad.

I wish you the best.

I agree that it's positive she's reading your posts and our responses. There's nothing secretive for you to hide. Although she may be shocked at the reality of her youthful behavior ... And her character flaws repressed for years.

Hopefully she's brave enough and intelligent enough to use this as an opportunity to build a better marriage.

The problem now is if he decides to divorce or is looking for answers about what a remorseful spouse looks like, she has the blueprint and all the answers w/o working for them or even feeling them. she can fake it and tell him everything he wants to hear.

CBM PM sent, buddy.

she can fake it and tell him everything he wants to hear.

True. In the short term she could snowball him.

But most WW’s cannot fake it over the long haul. The entitlement and selfish behavior usually resurfaces. Over time CBM can access, via her actions, if she really has changed. Can’t white knuckle it forever.

For his sake, her sake, and that of her kids, I hope she gets it. His last post did not sound very positive.

But most WW’s cannot fake it over the long haul. The entitlement and selfish behavior usually resurfaces. Over time ...

But this is just more time in the box for CBM. Why should he increase his suffering?

Just wanted to check in and see how you are doing CBM.

I don't see a huge problem with your wife reading here.

Personally, I never posted anything that I wouldn't have told my wife.

To each his own, but i wouldn't sweat it.

CantBeMe,

My take.

You were dating and living together at the time, in a relationship that you thought was exclusive.

To me that is the main problem. You weren't married at the time, but one can't really just go on technicalities around here. Yes, it was cheating.

That being said, she married YOU. Most of us have had the cheating occur after we were married, not that means a lot to you at this point. I understand that, it's still deception and a trust issue.

Assuming she has been a faithful wife, mother, and companion since you've been married, I see this as something you can overcome. You cannot change what has happened. It will not go away but you both and bring out in the open and deal with it. Talk about it. Why it happened and the pain it caused, what allowed herself to do this.

Personality, FOO issues, self esteem issues, needing attention or validation for what reason, all play a part.

You need to evaluate whether or not, in the big picture of a long term marriage, this is something you can deal with, or not. Don't make decision when you are angry. Allow yourself to calm down with time and distance for a while.

Do you see this as her attempt as one last fling before marriage?

Just to update everyone - my wife and I are still working through things but overall, there is a lot of improvement. Still a lot of ups and downs, and the bad days feel impossible still, but then the fog lifts and I feel better and feel love for my wife again.

I think the issue is that on my bad days, I picture my wife as the betrayer, as her "old self" when she committed the affair (and an exaggerated version at that). My thoughts dwell around "how could you? You must be a monster" and other terrible thoughts. I latch on to the worst of her actions, both back then and now, and apply them to her whole character. I give her no room for error, no benefit of any doubt, and no credit for good behavior. I convince myself she doesn't deserve any of those things.

In order to get out of that, I need to remember (and my wife needs to help me remember) who she is now and who she's been for the past decade - a loving, caring woman, a great wife, a great mom, a woman with flaws but who has grown and who has been faithful tome since and would never put herself in that situation again. This helps me push the awful thoughts away and get back to focusing on the present and the future. Maybe she doesn't deserve the things I listed above, but what if I give it to her anyway, and it helps find love again and live happily in our marriage? Then it is worth it. I have found that in affairs, no one gets what they "deserve" (especially not BS) and it's a fools errand to try to find justice.

We are working on her creating a "reconciliation checklist" and also coming up with behavior boundaries for both of us to follow. We're both in IC and we are in MC. I have crossed some lines as well in the past few years, and while I did not stray, I am not proud of my actions either. We are working to be a team, and to use the "golden rule" in our actions to the other sex.

We're probably not as far along as I am making it seem right now, but we're in a good place for the moment and it makes me feel good to type this out. Who knows how long this particular "high" will last, before I fall into another mini-depression? I hate feeling like it's just around the corner, but it always seems to be. Hopefully each week, the corner gets further and further away.

Good to hear you are feeling hopeful.

Has you wife agreed to not read your posts?

I am a bs... However,

Im going against the grain here.

Im not going to call her a WW mainly because she isnt one. There may have been a compromise before the marriage but the fact is she didn't break her vows or her promise. She did something she is ashamed of, something you hate and she hid it, but the fact is, she stopped and she chose you. Im not saying that at the time she did the right thing. Im not saying that if you had the current info back then you would not have chosen a different path. Im not saying that you were not in a way defrauded into an uninformed marriage...

But, I am saying that this was before you were married and the wayward wife label in no way applies.

Im not going to call her a WW mainly because she isnt one.

I think it is a semantic difference with no meaning. They were living together and in a committed relationship. There are people on here all of the time that have stories where they are not technically married. I don't think that minimizes the damage or the pain. It is compounded here because CBM asked her about it many times over the past 12 years and she has continually lied. Yes the infidelity was a long time ago but the lying went on every day and continued until just recently.

So call her a WGF then instead of a WW. Though what

do you call a wife that lied about her cheating on

him for twelve years?

Considering the D-Day of the true nature of the affair occurred just weeks ago in our marriage and I have been lied to for so long, it truly feels like she was a WW and not a WGF, but what difference does it make anyway?

I will say, I am thankful it was so long ago and that she has been able to demonstrate to me that she has probably been faithful ever since, and almost beyond a shadow of a doubt since we've been married (that's the only time period I've been able to check her communication). She has also paid for and schedule a polygraph for next Monday, which increases my trust in her as well.

She is now posting on the Wayward side here as "Flawed". She is trying very hard. The past few days have felt like a real turning point, with her being much more proactive in my healing and showing much more remorse. I would encourage anyone here who feels for me and my story to post over on her thread and provide honest feedback, without attacking her.

I am not perfect either, and I have shared with her some moments where I was tempted and got close to doing bad things. In truth, I definitely did do some bad things that I'm not proud of, but I feel I did not cross a line and no physical contact occurred. However, in thinking about it, it has helped me find empathy for her and it has also made it very clear to me how important the "golden rule" is for our marriage - treat others how you would want to be treated. We are committed to establishing specific boundaries moving forward and taking concrete steps to make sure neither of us is in a situation that would make other uncomfortable, or lead to bad behavior.

I feel that we are finally down the path to R, and I saw this with humility knowing how long it can take for others with worse A stories. I also say this knowing full well that my rollercoaster may head downhill at any moment and my feelings my change drastically.

But for now at least, I am enjoying my sense of peace and hopefulness.

Over the years, I've read several times that a spouse who has cheated, but lies to their spouse about it, is still showing waywardness. They're compared to a dry drunk. They're called a dry wayward. Lying is one or the biggest traits nearly all waywards have.

OP, I'm glad your wife is posting. It seems that the ones who post on here a lot, tend to do better in reconciliation. The advice,and support here..when taken..is invaluable.

Hey CBM, how are things? Neither you nor Flawed has posted in a minute.

I would comment on this point from your post above:

However, in thinking about it, it has helped me find empathy for her and it has also made it very clear to me how important the "golden rule" is for our marriage - treat others how you would want to be treated. We are committed to establishing specific boundaries moving forward and taking concrete steps to make sure neither of us is in a situation that would make other uncomfortable, or lead to bad behavior.

From my perspective, the marriage "golden rule" has a corollary: If you wouldn't do or say it in front of your spouse because you know he/she would be hurt by it, then don't do or say it. Behave at all times as if your spouse was present with you.

She is trying very hard

Like I said before there is a lot to work with here. The most important thing for a WS is put in effort. Effort counts as much as effect does.

As you move through this that is what you hold onto that unwavering effort. You won't always remember the outcome but you will remember the effort. She will fail at times. You will fail at times. Treat them as learning opportunities. Change what is not working and keep doing what does. There is not right way or wrong way to do this. Progress is not linear. You catapult back and forth.

Have you stuck with IC ? Has she ?

How did the poly go ?

Hey CBM, how are things? Neither you nor Flawed has posted in a minute.

I would comment on this point from your post above:

"However, in thinking about it, it has helped me find empathy for her and it has also made it very clear to me how important the "golden rule" is for our marriage - treat others how you would want to be treated. We are committed to establishing specific boundaries moving forward and taking concrete steps to make sure neither of us is in a situation that would make other uncomfortable, or lead to bad behavior."

From my perspective, the marriage "golden rule" has a corollary: If you wouldn't do or say it in front of your spouse because you know he/she would be hurt by it, then don't do or say it. Behave at all times as if your spouse was present with you.

Hi BFTG,

Thanks for checking in. My wife and I had MC this morning that went well, and my wife (who posts very occasionally as "flawed") is saying and doing all the right things.

In regards to your comment, I completely agree and I know my wife does as well. It's not just about actions, but about words, and situations that we allow ourselves into, and respect for your spouse. We've both been out of line on this at times, outside of her A. Simply because she or I did not have physical contact in these other situations does not make it OK, at all. We're trying to focus on the process, not the results, if that makes sense (and I think you would say that it does and that you agree).

My ongoing issue is simply whether or not I can deal with having the knowledge of her A in my memory bank and living out the rest of my life with it in my head, haunting me. Here is something I wrote to two members here who have been emailing with me for a few weeks now (and have been an invaluable help to my marriage - they know who they are!)

I feel like the SI stuff around WS remorse is almost like this weird "game", where we must test the WS and have them prove remorse in some kind of tangible way, and once that occurs we can all marvel at their transformation and the BS is then "allowed" to pursue reconciliation. Sometimes in the forums it comes across very odd to me, to be honest, and some posters seem completely obsessed with this "game". I feel like I have let this mindset from SI take over for me too much, where I keep looking for signs of my WS's remorse and use it as some kind of permission structure to accept what she did and forgive her. The truth is, she is doing everything right, and while I wish she could do some things better, I know in my heart that she is trying her absolute best and that she loves me and hates what she did to me.

BUT

It's not a game. She doesn't just "win" by saying all the right things, any my ability to accept what she did isn't magically unlocked by her good actions. I wish it was, believe me. This would be much easier if it worked like that. What scared me about yesterday is that I realized how there is a chance that despite her good actions since confessing, her clear remorse, her being a great wife/mother for a long time, our great sex life, loving our kids, and my own desire to R, I simply may not be able to. I just may be one of these people where an affair is an absolute deal breaker and I can't get over it. In fact, I think I AM one of those people. It scares me to death. And I think, how I can I work to change myself because I NEED to get through this, I NEED to reconcile, it is too harmful not to reconcile when there are so many good, valid reasons to do so.

That's basically the best summary I can give of where I'm at. I feel "lucky" (in a very twisted use of the word) that my wife's A occurred so long ago and that she is so committed to making things right and doing the right things. It makes it much easier to want to R and to work towards it. However, the knowledge of the A that she waylaid me with has really shaken me to my core, and I struggle daily with accepting the details of it and moving past it. That said, I do try to be realistic that a divorce would solve some problems but create many others, and I feel I would be unlikely to find someone that I would love at the same level that I love my wife. We also have kids and I obviously don't have any desire to harm them or disrupt their lives if it isn't needed.

Bottom line is, we're both working hard but it's a long, difficult process. When I hear the conventional wisdom that true R takes 2-5 years, it scares me to death because it feels like such a long time, but being 6 weeks into it now I can totally understand that time frame. I hope to keep posting and I hope to have positive updates as we keep working to R.

[This message edited by CantBeMe123 at 1:58 PM, November 26th (Monday)]