SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I used to go to an all female gym just so men would STOP believing that my cute workout clothes were for them. Uggghhh. But then my awesome XX chromosome gym closed.

Sigh.

Back to coed and over exuberant beliefs about why I'm working out in this cute outfit.

"The thing that really bothers me is that men, it seems here on SI, prefer to believe women are lying rather than admit that their perceptions are simply impacted by projection and wishful thinking and aren't accurate. I find this upsetting as it reminds me of abusive relationship dynamics, sexual harassment reasoning and even rape.

OMG this...

What about it? ^^^

Go ahead and buy it if you feel she is dressed that way for you!

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 2:30 PM, April 3rd (Wednesday)]

So the original question was clearly directed at women to answer...and here come the men to tell us what we do and do not do.

According to some of the men who answered here for us women, I'm wondering if you can please help me out...Today for work, I wore a pretty cold shoulder top, jeans, which I turned up for a cute little cuff, and grey suede heeled booties. I thought I was dressing for me...I mean, I felt confident in my outfit, thought it was stylish and made me feel pretty. However, the only people I see at work is our female receptionist, my father, my uncle, and 1 or 2 of my brothers. Could you please tell me which one of these people I was dressing for? My therapist will clearly want to know!

The only times I have dressed for men are when I was out with the specific intention of getting laid, wanted to look hot for a date, was in a relationship and wanted to look hot to my partner on a given occasion, or...yeah, I guess that's it. I wear make-up almost every day and I have this extreme love of cute funky shoes. My style, such as it is, isn't for anyone's benefit but my own. I mean, if I were dressing for other people, I'd probably have much fewer funky hippie looking shirts and dresses in my closet. I like my clothing to reflect my personality because it makes me feel more like "me". A woman's relationship to her wardrobe is a pretty serious one and typically has not a damned thing to do with what random dude at work would like to see. Maybe he enjoys what she's wearing, maybe he doesn't. It's not really about him unless she is directly trying to hook up with random dude. Generally, she isn't. Generally, she's just getting dressed and going to work.

Because of this unexpected finding, Abbey (1982)concluded that men have a general bias toward overperception of sexual intent in behaviors, not one limited to female targets.

I went back to my study results to highlight the fact that "men have a general bias toward overperception of sexual intent."

Lots of women look sexy as hell!

In ball gowns

In ballet leotards

In soccer cleats

In an apron

In lingerie

Out of lingerie

In shorts

In jeans

Barefoot

In boots

Maybe we're just sexy to you and it drives you crazy? That seems to be what I see and what the research shows. But that's inside you, not an intent by women.

Drug addicts believe the drug calls to them.

Does it?

Stop blaming others for what you feel on the inside. Work on yourself, your self-esteem, your perceptions, your belief that you are a victim of female manipulation, whatever it may be. Healing and comfort with the world around us begins and ends with us.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 2:39 PM, April 3rd (Wednesday)]

" It is the message I DO GET, but not the one I want to get. "

then change how you receive it because we're not sending it. consider RIO, that you may be wrong.

You know, the guy who lives behind me does yard work shirtless. Lemme tell you about this man...he's gorgeous, he has muscles in all the right places and his ass fills out his jeans or shorts quite nicely.

RIO, do you suppose this man is doing yard work shirtless because he wants all the women in the neighborhood to have sex with him or is he doing his yardwork shirtless to get a tan or maybe just because he's a guy and ya'll can get away with that and stay cooler in the summer instead of sweating up a nice t-shirt?

Same question applies for the elderly dude several houses down with the beer belly and the scraggly beard, lol. Is he also displaying himself in a naughty way?

I suspect that the reasons these two men have for (not) wearing the exact same thing are much more similar than different and that they probably aren't trying to be exhibitionistic whores.

But let me go out in the yard in my short-shorts to mow my lawn and do yardwork and I'm being suggestive?

DD, where do you live?

then change how you receive it because we're not sending it. consider RIO, that you may be wrong.

Oh, I've got no illusions to be right here. I know I'm wrong (most of the time on this issue, occasionally, I might be right); and that woman wearing the mini skirt isn't doing it for me in particular. May only be wearing it because she thinks it's cute and doesn't want anyone to think "she's hot" at all. Maybe even dresses that way cleaning the house, who knows.

But it's not as easy as "just stop thinking that". It is easy to not act on it. I don't act on it. Ever. It's not easy to not think it though. Thoughts are out of my control, especially these really "base level" type thoughts.

I could make a promise to myself that I'll never eat steak again. But, let me tell you, as much as I like steak, sitting in a place known for it, seeing it all, smelling it all.. Darn right I'm going to think "man, I would love some steak right now". And the restaurant is keenly aware of this, the setup the menu to highlight the expensive dishes, they make a flourish when they deliver the best cuts and a fuss when people order the "old 96'er". I can certainly order the chicken, but "don't think about the steak" is an impossible task for me in that situation because we're dealing with something primal. Sex is the same way for me, I can try all I want to not sexualize a woman walking by in a bra and panties, but, if I find her attractive, that's going to be extremely difficult for me. And it's hard for a lot of people, I hazard a guess that most people, if you tell them, "find your favorite porn movie and put it on" and then tell them "don't think about sex, just see the woman/man as a person" is going to struggle mighty with that as it's the epitome of sexulizing the opposite sex. It's just deeper than "think it away", at least it is for me. I can no do anything about those thoughts (not masturbate, for example), but not think them at all watching a naked woman have sex in front of me? I cannot do that. And I don't think any amount of training is going to fix that for me because we are trying to "think away" something that's not actually an intentional thought.

RIO, do you suppose this man is doing yard work shirtless because he wants all the women in the neighborhood to have sex with him or is he doing his yardwork shirtless to get a tan or maybe just because he's a guy and ya'll can get away with that and stay cooler in the summer instead of sweating up a nice t-shirt?

I do some yardwork shirtless. It's always for the benefit of my W. She likes that dirty muscled up look. But it's for show only, believe it or not, mowing the lawn or pulling weeds without a shirt on is a pretty poor idea, you get cut/scratched/injured a lot easier without a little cotton between you and the world! But I do understand your point, and perhaps he is doing it just because he's hot (if so, you should buy him a coolshirt, they are a LOT cooler than nothing and they either are tan through or sun blocking, depending on what you want). He may also be doing it to get attention though.

The old guy, well, he just doesn't GAF. He's not doing it to look good, he's doing it because he doesn't feel like finding a shirt. :) And I suppose you could argue that the girl in the gym with the 200 dollar Lulu shorts/sports bra combo also gives 0 f**ks.. But I don't think that's actually the case, I think that's more like the hottie gardener, perhaps she's just too warm and needs less clothing or maybe she's trying to attract attention. Either could be true, but, much like your gardener, she's GONNA attract attention doing that. People will notice, right or wrong, they will; just like you notice the guy next door, check out his ass, and appreciate his build. There's nothing wrong with any of that, IMHO, it's entirely normal. But that same hottie gardener then complaining "why can't I just pull weeds in my designer jeans and no shirt without people looking" well.. That's being disingenuous, IMHO, you can't complain people are looking when your doing things that people want to look at.

But let me go out in the yard in my short-shorts to mow my lawn and do yardwork and I'm being suggestive?

He's being suggestive too! It's just that being suggestive as a guy usually gets you nothing more than a sad head shake from a woman (poor guy, so desperate for attention) or at best, a neighbor who sits by the window waiting for the weeds to grow. Being suggestive as a woman is going to get your propositioned post haste. Again, no judgement here, I'd say that's not fair right along with everyone else, but, truth is, your neighbor can go out there and mow all day all summer with no shirt and likely nobody will ever ask him if he'd like to come over for a little "cool down" in their house. Where if you do it, I'm pretty sure you'll be propositioned before you finish starting the lawnmower. ;) It's just different, and this is NOT me saying "and that's how it should be"; but it is how it is.

[This message edited by Rideitout at 3:08 PM, April 3rd (Wednesday)]

DD, where do you live?

Near a military base...I highly recommend it for the lawn ornaments in this area!

I have to wonder why women are supposed to be responsible for a man's reaction to the way she is dressed?

But RIO, is finding people attractive actually a problem? Don't we all see people and think "damn"? As long as you can reel that in and relate to that person as an actual person, what's the big deal? Attractive people are everywhere. Not a day goes by when I don't see some man whom I find attractive, but it hardly disturbs me or keeps me from acting like I have some sense when interacting with them.

As mentioned above, I live in an area FULL of very fit hot young men. I mostly think that's awesome, lol, but it's not a problem for me. If I'm at the grocery store I tend to see hot young men in tight t-shirts and I just smile and let that bring joy into my day. Yay for them for being so cute and yay for me that they lifted my mood for a moment. What is different for you? Is there a predatory aspect to it or something? I don't see the problem.

"I'd change this, you WILL not know if the person is trying to attract attention."

Then, maybe err on the side of caution and assume they are not.

I see men out dressed in all kinds of ways. Sometimes I notice men who are very fashion conscious, I guess you'd call it, nice dressers. I have never once thought a man was dressed for me. There's definitely a male bias here.

I could make a promise to myself that I'll never eat steak again. But, let me tell you, as much as I like steak, sitting in a place known for it, seeing it all, smelling it all.. Darn right I'm going to think "man, I would love some steak right now". And the restaurant is keenly aware of this, the setup the menu to highlight the expensive dishes, they make a flourish when they deliver the best cuts and a fuss when people order the "old 96'er". I can certainly order the chicken, but "don't think about the steak" is an impossible task for me in that situation because we're dealing with something primal.

I've been a vegetarian for a long, long time. It took the entire first year for me to give up McDonald's Big Macs. It took a few years after that for my mouth to start watering at the smell of bacon. But now? Almost 20 years later? Meat holds zero appeal.

I have to wonder why women are supposed to be responsible for a man's reaction to the way she is dressed?

They're not. But expecting that you're going to wear something really sexy somewhere and not get a reaction is not reasonable. Of course people are going to react. Maybe you didn't intend for that to happen (although, I really struggle to believe that in some cases), but it's still going to happen. Just like the gardener next door, if you're a really fit man walking around without a shirt on, or in a tank top in the drug store, guess what? People are going to look/stare. And I could come home from the drug store all upset about how people just looked at me like a freak or, I could put on a tshirt and then, suddenly, people stop looking. Is it my fault I'm attracting that attention or the people who are looking's fault for being interested/curious/sexually excited about how I look? I'm sure we can find a way to assign blame, but, will that stop people from doing it? Will it change the behavior? IMHO, I doubt it.

I mean, let's make it kind of funny. I'm totally within my rights to put on a miniskirt right now, a halter top, a nice blonde wig, some bright red lipstick and then cruise down (hairy legs and all) to the supermarket and do my shopping. Will people stare? Will they gawk? Will I cause a car accident when a truck rolls by, the driver bursts into hysterical laughter and rear ends someone? Probably all the above. But do I then get to come home and say "Why was everyone looking at me"? I suppose I could do that, but, we all KNOW why people were looking at me. You were dressed in drag RIO, walking in the middle of the day into the grocery store, and you are not passable at all. Not even a little bit. Probably should have shaved your beard and legs if you wanted to even make an attempt at it! Of course people will stare and react, no matter how much I might want to dress "just for me" in that getup, the reality is, people will react to it. And thinking otherwise is burying my head in the sand.

I have 4 daughters ranging in age from 14-29.

Over the past couple days, I asked them and my W this question.

Wife and oldest 3 (18, 26, 29) all admitted to dressing sexy to garner general male attention when they were unattached and going out somewhere where "hooking up" was a possibility.

They also admitted to reeeeeally turning the dressing sexy up for their SO's at times.

But in general, day to day life, they don't really think about it. As my oldest says, "Sometimes when ppl think i look cute, I was really trying to just not look throwed". Lol

Ironically, my youngest doesn't give a shit what anyone thinks about her appearance, and shes the one that was youngest of the 4 when she got her first boyfriend (12 yrs old, beginning of 7th grade) and is still with the same boy almost 2 yrs later.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 3:31 PM, April 3rd (Wednesday)]

"Looking" is one thing. There's a difference between noticing that someone is attractive and getting one's creep on about it. If I go out looking good and get extra glances, hey, cool. Don't give me the creepy stare, follow me around, invade my personal space, make comments or god forbid, touch me.

Just someone giving us a look isn't what most of us get all bent out of shape about, is it?

If I go out dressed like a clown, you may stare. If I go out and the curve of my left boob is just right in that particular shirt from where you (generic you) are standing, look if you must, let that lift your day up, and then leave me the %&^ alone. NEVER have I felt the need to inform an attractive man that I personally was getting all hot and bothered by his tight t-shirt. Nor would I yell to my neighbor about how sexy he looks out there in the yard. How they look isn't about me.

If I find that I'm wrong enough, eventually I may start to think "huh, guy in a suit, probably squat day at the gym for him".

And that's the key. How are we supposed to convey that you are wrong, and it really is squat day? Because for your analogy to work, since the suit implies a business meeting and not a gym to any sensible person, then the yoga pants (which are ACTUALLY WORKOUT CLOTHES BTW) imply to any reasonable man not that it's squat day, but that we want to turn you on. As with the penis size debate, men know they're right because, well, it's obvious. "She knows how her ass looks in those tight pants, so if she didn't want to turn me on, she wouldn't wear those tight pants." And then it's just a short, short step to "Who the fuck does she think she is, wearing those tight pants, if she didn't want the attention? Fucking lying teasing bitch." So tell me, what is it that women should do to prove that hell yes, it's squat day, keep your assumptions to yourself?