SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Here’s the thing, though. And I really, really hope you will hear and receive this. You were not attacked and ridiculed because you shared. I understand why it feels that way. But speak the truth to your soul. Take the time to sit with the feelings and sort them. The shame is not yours. It never was. And the pain can’t hurt you anymore. It is in your past. You became who you are because of all the experiences of your life, good and bad. And you can choose how you carry this forward. I am not glad that I was abused as a child. It was awful and wrong. I am not glad I got pregnant at 19 and that adoption was the right choice for my daughter to have the best life. I am not glad that my first marriage was broken by infidelity and a remorseless, sociopathic XWH. Or that my son by that M has epilepsy and developmental delays and will probably never live on his own. Or that infidelity almost destroyed my family 9 years ago. But all of that has made me who I am. I strive to be compassionate and show grace and mercy. I have a capacity for understanding pain and trauma which allows me to help others. While I don’t dwell on the pain and trauma of my past, I don’t have a problem pulling it out of it can help someone else.

Not that you or anyone else is obligated to share your story with anyone. Please understand that. This is what works for me. I just so hope and pray that this will be a place of growth and healing for you and that you will carry less of that shame burden with you.

Again, how on earth anyone could derive a " suck it up butter cup" message from what I wrote is beyond me. So, if you responded to me, HFCC, I have no clue why.

And, perhaps if someone is triggered, he or she might pause and go back to read what was posted before flying off the handle. In no way was it ever suggested that rape was not traumatic or the pain was less.

Instead, someone posted about his being out of his fucking mind. Another person thought there was something pseudo intellectual about posting, essentially saying this was a stupid or shallow post.

36 - I'm so so sorry this happened to you. Thank you sharing that with us. The position one is in when reading something like that is the quiet, precious space where fellow humans get to bear witness to another's pain - and for me, I hold that as close to God as one can get.

I cannot imagine the pain this has caused you. I hear you and see you.

Regarding your question. Commenting only for me, those two things have been woven together in one horrific event I can't seem to untangle. I was raped while married, and my husband couldn't deal with it so he had an affair. There were times I wouldn't even mention the rape during MC or IC because it wasn't on the same sphere as my own husband's betrayal. But, it should be, because it led us down this path of guilt and shame and I'm not going to say that's what stopped me from leaving him, but it kinda did. I feel good about us now, but that took years and changed our couplehood for the better.

So, my answer remains those key words that come with both events: shame, guilt, betrayal, pain.

That we even need to discern or judge another's pain seems trivial. Again, I'm so sorry you went through that. To be a child, no less. You have been heard and virtually hugged.

The initial post was not one of sharing. There was no depth or insight. He posted "I think rape and infidelity have similarities, what about you guys?" It seemed completely random, extremely insensitive and it led to people directly comparing these experiences and claiming that infidelity is worse. Now 36 is claiming that he was attacked for sharing his experience, which is not true.

I was terribly rude with my response to the original post and I am sorry for that. I definitely need to get my anger under control. But I sat there in shock thinking "What the hell is the objective here? Why would someone post this?" I let it set me off.

Yeah, well, apparently, quite a few posters who have been through both felt the aftermath was similar. A couple said it the infidelity affected them more or was tougher. It was for me.

So, the observation about the similarities rang true to some. Just because it " triggered" you, does not call for questioning someone's, a victim's, sanity in such a vulgar way.

If you do much reading on infidelity, you will see that others draw similar parallels.

I suspect that some of the initial antipathy stemmed from people failing to consider that males get sexually assaulted a lot. I have read that if you include the prison population, the numbers are quite high.

I wasn't questioning a victim's sanity because he had not yet disclosed that he was a victim. He even said "experts say rape is an act of violence." To me, that came across as though it was something he had never had any experience with. It seemed like he was posting this in an "I was just wondering" kind of way which is what I let myself get so upset by. It just seemed completely tone-deaf to me.

But you're right that it did start a conversation and maybe someone found it helpful. There was no reason for me to curse at him. I could have just closed the thread.

Edited to add: I have never questioned whether or not men and boys can be victims of sexual assault. I am very well aware that this is something that happens to men.

[This message edited by TKOGA at 3:07 PM, November 13th (Friday)]

The initial post was not one of sharing. There was no depth or insight. He posted "I think rape and infidelity have similarities, what about you guys?" It seemed completely random, extremely insensitive and it led to people directly comparing these experiences and claiming that infidelity is worse. Now 36 is claiming that he was attacked for sharing his experience, which is not true.

TKOGA:

Let's be accurate here. In my initial post I did not say what you claim I said. You stated, 'He posted "I think rape and infidelity have similarities, what about you guys?"'

Here is the original post. Please show me where I stated what you claim I stated:

Experts say that rape is an act of violence. It is not about sex.

Infidelity, may be mostly about the sex, but it is still an act of violence. It is the violent destruction of a relationship. It is the violent disregard of your partners feelings and emotions.

Where is the violence in infidelity, you ask?

Ask anyone who has been cheated on if they felt like they had been physically beaten by the discovery of their spouses betrayal.

Rape is a selfish act. So is infidelity.

Rape is not about love. Neither is infidelity. Love would prevent a rape, Love should prevent infidelity.

Your thoughts?

Frankly your claim is patently untrue.

I was terribly rude with my response to the original post and I am sorry for that.

You do not need to apologize to me. If you perceived the post in the manner you stated then I can understand your anger and angst.

I definitely need to get my anger under control. But I sat there in shock thinking "What the hell is the objective here? Why would someone post this?" I let it set me off.

My objective was to talk about it. I failed and succeeded at that. I am sorry that my setting you off led to this:

I think you've lost your fucking mind posting something like this.

I may have lost my mind for being willing to share what I eventually shared, my initial reasoning was sound, but the question without context was not.

[This message edited by 36yearsgone at 4:11 PM, November 13th (Friday)]

36, I was not directly quoting you. I was summing up the entire tone of the first post. I thought that was obvious.

I am beginning to change my already changed mind about this thread. At first I was horrified to think I had triggered, traumatized or insulted any SI member by what I posted. Again the title of the thread without the full context could cause people to make incorrect assumptions.

Dealing with the opening post and nothing but the opening post, allow me a moment to break down my thinking, not your perceptions (your perceptions exclusively belong to you).

Here is how it got started.

Experts say that rape is an act of violence. It is not about sex.

I stated that as evidence that rape cannot be compared to infidelity. There is usually not a loving or seemingly committed relationship that results in rape. So, I did not want to skew the two.

Infidelity, may be mostly about the sex, but it is still an act of violence.

This comment was meant to show that there is a big difference between rape and infidelity, and that is one is not ab out sex and the other usually is.

Someone would only misquote you like that, 36, to try to make you look bad. Your post was nothing like she is claiming, as you point out.

Weird thing about it is that it is so easily refuted. Anyone can just go back and read the initial post to see that the alleged quote is untrue. I would chalk this up to misplaced anger. From her description of what happened to her, she was horribly betrayed.

He is a BH. Of course he is a victim, as are all betrayed.

I am beginning to change my already changed mind about this thread. At first I was horrified to think I had triggered, traumatized or insulted any SI member by what I posted. Again the title of the thread without the full context could cause people to make incorrect assumptions.

Dealing with the opening post and nothing but the opening post, allow me a moment to break down my thinking, not your perceptions (your perceptions exclusively belong to you).

Here is how it got started.

Experts say that rape is an act of violence. It is not about sex.

I stated that as evidence that rape cannot be compared to infidelity. There is usually not a loving or seemingly committed relationship that results in rape. So, I did not want to skew the two.

Infidelity, may be mostly about the sex, but it is still an act of violence.

This comment was meant to show that there is a big difference between rape and infidelity, and that is one is not ab out sex and the other usually is.

It is the violent destruction of a relationship. It is the violent disregard of your partners feelings and emotions.

Where is the violence in infidelity, you ask? Ask anyone who has been cheated on if they felt like they had been physically beaten by the discovery of their spouses betrayal.

The word violent used above is more a metaphor to describe the feeling that a BS may experience due to their partners infidelity. Infidelity is an act of violence against the BS. To me my wife's infidelity was a brutal beatdown to my soul and actually resulted in physical pain.

Rape is a selfish act. So is infidelity.

A rapist is never thinking about the victim other than what the rapist can take from that victim. A cheater is also not thinking about the wellbeing of his/her partner. A cheater is being selfish.

Rape is not about love. Neither is infidelity. Love would prevent a rape, Love should prevent infidelity.

This is the closest I came to bringing a direct comparison between rape and infidelity. Neither is about love. When I was raped it was not a loving act. It was violent, painful and bloody. When my WW cheated it was not a loving act. My wellbeing was not under consideration. My WW took something from me that can never be replaced. The rapist also took something from me that can never be replaced.

I closed the post with this:

Your thoughts?

I wanted to hear the thoughts of other people. The purpose for this was to see if some of the things I was feeling could be validated.

That's my explanation. I still believe that there was nothing harmful in the post, at least not intentionally. The post wasn't even thoughtless on my part, it just wasn't fully thought through and worded in the least offensive way possible.

But people jumped to conclusions. So my intent initially failed. I felt it failed further when I humiliated myself by sharing what happened to me. But in hindsight, if my humiliation helped anyone on SI, then I suppose being humiliated was worthwhile.

[This message edited by 36yearsgone at 4:13 PM, November 13th (Friday)]

36, I was not directly quoting you. I was summing up the entire tone of the first post. I thought that was obvious.

It was obvious. You made a claim that I said something that I did not say. You didn't claim it was a paraphrase. You didn't claim that it was your perception. You claimed I said it.

This is how problems are developed. I am more than willing to be held accountable for anything I say. But if you misquote me and attempt to hold me accountable for something untrue, well, that's just not acceptable.

Be more precise in your ridicule and then it can be dealt with fairly and honestly.

Your intent and your execution were crystal clear and not in the least provocative or insensitive, IMO. Someone looking to be offended or with a chip on the shoulder went off because of his or her own issues.

Quite a few of the folks that have experienced both were not offended in the least and disclosed that they felt similarly.

The posters that attacked you and insulted you then tried to criticize the manner in which you wrote, alleging they felt you were insensitive or did not give sufficient context. IMO, those allegations were ridiculous, efforts to try to justify their rudness upon realizing you had plenty of standing to make the observations you did. They were grasping at straws having realized how out of line they were, giving qualified apologies.

Your intent and your execution were crystal clear and not in the least provocative or insensitive, IMO. Someone looking to be offended or with a chip on the shoulder went off because of his or her own issues.

Therein lies the problem. Every single one of us can find a reason to be offended, even when no offense exists. This has become a large part of our culture. It's painful to watch and more painful to experience.

I know that I strive to be kind and in tune with other people's feelings; but it isn't possible for me to predict every outcome of what I do or say. But I will strive to be more sensitive.

36yearsgone,

I do not understand why your reaction wasn't, "Geeze, I should have been a little more open with my thoughts in my original post. Sorry, guys." Why so defensive instead of apologetic after people triggered?

I'm honestly triggering from your reaction. I've spent too many years hearing that my feelings are wrong instead of hearing, "Sorry. I'll do better in the future." Is that so hard? I don't see why.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 4:35 PM, November 13th (Friday)]

Yeah, it was entirely your fault, 36. You used English.

I do not understand why your reaction wasn't, "Geeze, I should have been a little more open with my thoughts in my original post. Sorry, guys." Why so defensive instead of apologetic after people triggered?

I'm honestly triggering from your reaction. I've spent too many years hearing that my feelings are wrong instead of hearing, "Sorry. I'll do better in the future." Is that so hard? I don't see why.

I believe I did that more than once. I went from apologetic to defensive when attacks continued. I still don't think you read the entire thread, not that you're obligated to do so, but it would at least allow for a better dialogue.

I do thank you for posting in this thread again and I apologize for asking you to stay the hell away from me.

Now, go back and read the thread if you are willing and you'll see I met the positive criteria you believe I did not meet.

[This message edited by 36yearsgone at 4:50 PM, November 13th (Friday)]

So just out of curiosity, were those of us who responded to the person who had experienced rape with our own experiences of rape and infidelity also guilty of being triggering just by virtue of even having this discussion? Who is allowed to talk about rape if it isn't those who experienced it? And to assume that 36 hadn't and was just being an ass was to make a huge assumption.

What's the deeper issue here? Is it the comparison to infidelity, which some are working through in R? What is the trigger, exactly?

Logically if this were a triggering topic, I should have been triggered as fuck. Instead I saw this as a place to discuss the particular trauma of infidelity as a rape victim. I wasn't alone. Lots of us related to this. It's very much real and very much something that takes extra work to recover from.

To be honest, what "triggers" me about all of this is essentially telling someone who brought up the subject of rape to STFU. Be quiet, don't talk about it, keep it in the dark. Don't bring it up because it might upset people. That is what we tend to hear from the world at large. That it's shameful, not acceptable to speak of. Even if 36 had not been through this it bothers me to see people just respond in such a way to the thread.