SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

RedBaron, I wouldn't blame you if you're running for the hills at this point. I hope not. If nothing else, go back and read what Nononsense and Walloped have advised you to do. You can't go wrong with what they've offered you. Good luck, my friend. I know you're in awful pain right now.

I am here and I am reading everything

I have not been able to reply because emotionally I have not been in a state to; the roller coaster of pain, sorrow, grief, and the strength required to manage the day functioning 'normally' has just been too draining. Today is a new day, and I am feeling clearer in my thoughts than I have in some days.

There has been a lot of posts here obviously, some even arguing with each other (which is normal). There have been opinions from all parts of the spectrum extreme hard line to extreme soft and everything in the middle. For those of you who were kind enough to show the concern, I know how to pick good advice and how to discard any that is not useful to me (I wouldn't say bad, it might be useful to someone else). Thank you for advising me to do so, that was definitely good advice!

I want to specially thank trynhard, ImGoneByTheDown, HobbesTheTiger, craig2001, Crushed7, FearoftheUnknown, Biggestmistake, Walloped, Devastated2015 (I send you strength and luck friend), livinganew, Tearsoflove, CuckNo, Nononsense; and everyone else who has taken the time to offer their advice to a stranger. What I have learnt is that all the different and varied opinions actually add up to help by making you more informed.

I have also been reading some of the books recommended here.

I moved out of my place a week back from now or so. three days ago, my wife called me and told me she wants to talk to me and come clean. She told me that she had been reading the books our therapist recommended (same as those recommended here by a few) and has come to the conclusion that not matter what my final decision, she needs to come fully clean to me. She said she has been making notes over the past few days so that she got everything right (she showed me those notes too). She said she is doing this for many reasons, firstly because she has seen my pain, and does not want me to go through it again and again. She said she wants to do this because she owes me the truth at the very least. She also said she knows that any chances of me forgiving her would be destroyed if I found out these facts at some point through the other guy's wife because he has told her, that would destroy any chances of me trusting her either.

When she came over, she said that she was very aware this could be the last time we talked, since after another month of lying and now hearing there is more, I might simply never forgive her nor trust her, and that she was fully aware of that possibility, but she was willing to take the risk of this being the end since I deserved the truth and that she wanted to show me that she is making an effort to change herself and to earn my trust, and that even if I left her, she couldn't live the rest of her life with the lie.

She told me that there have been two more times (prior to the ones I knew earlier) within the same time span she told me earlier, both also in similar situations. Of those, I wasn't present in one (the very first time). After telling me the whole timeline again. She offered that I can keep this timeline, and take her to a polygraph test, as soon as I wanted.

This was devastating for me of course, I had just began to mildly come to terms with it, and this felt like day 1 to me all over again.

Now after three days, I am again pretty much where I started here (4 weeks in).

I have seriously taken the kind advice of you friends, to take care of myself first of all, everything comes afterwards. I will admit I had gotten into a downward spiral, have stopped working out, stopped eating well or sleeping well (those two I cant yet control very well). But thank you, I know I come first, I will sort myself out and then look at what needs to be done. The rest can all wait.

I am not decided if my wife's coming out clean is the whole truth, even though she has said lets go for a polygraph test any time. But for now, she needs to be making efforts towards making me feel better, whether or not I decide to stay with her. So at least she is doing that, honest or not, only time can tell.

During writing this I have again slipped into a darker state of mind, so I will stop.

Thank you friends, for your supports, advice, opinions, kind words and the strength you offer, I will continue to draw from it.

PS: since the subject of 'evil' has been prevalent. By the same definitions, all cheating is then inherently evil, the degree of evil might be arguable. If it matters to you that its a motel bed or your own home.

[This message edited by TheRedBaron at 2:52 AM, December 25th (Friday)]

I'm so glad you're still with us! I got the feeling from your post that you are strong enough to get through this and come out the other side happy again, after a period of healing and hard work on yourself. So as long as you don't give up on yourself, I think you'll be great, no matter what happens with your marriage.

I'd just like to address this:

stopped eating well or sleeping well (those two I cant yet control very well)

Have you tried smoothies, soups and stews? They are more liquidy and might be easier for you to fool your brain/stomach into eating&digesting them:)

As for sleeping, have you tried talking to your doc or a pharmacist?

Best wishes

RB

Congratulations.

Your wife has shown you the first true sign that she is thinking of you, the marriage and not herself.

She did the real timeline and told you the actual trickle.

She left the trickle truth at the door.

Just come to the realization that your wife has decided to finally pull her head out of her ass....

Also realize that it takes time for a wayward to stop lying, to stop protecting themselves.

It also takes many waywards time to work up the courage to not want to hurt their BS's anymore.

Did her further truth hurt you any less? Yes.

But she knew this and decided to be honest anyway.

That is a good sign.

Now focus on you. Eat healthy. Exercise. And begin to put one foot in front of the other.

And continue to encourage your wife to focus on her issues and fix them.

HM

[This message edited by happyman64 at 6:15 AM, December 25th (Friday)]

I am not decided if my wife's coming out clean is the whole truth, even though she has said lets go for a polygraph test any time.

She has told me that they never chatted or texted, it only happened 4 times because it only happened when the opportunity arose, and that they never looked for it or seeked it. That it was purely the thrill of the act not even the sex itself, which was always short and hurried due to the circumstances.

We would be together at least two nights of the weekend without fail, sometimes even as much as even 3-4 times a week.

Given the length of time and amount of opportunity to be together and willing to risk when you are present, 6 also does not make sense and probably is a lie. Probably what has happened since then is she and other man got their stories straight. Also she will roll the dice when the polygraph comes, if it comes, and she will be willing to fail one question, the one about how many times, if you even ask that question in polygraph.

Cheaters are tremendous risk takers, as you can see by your wife, they were willing to risk it all for their marriages to begin with, they are willing to risk no protection and have STDs and give those to their loyal spouses, and of course you couldn't 100% think a pregnancy; and after the affair, the cheaters are even more desperate, their willingness to risk increases even more.

Notice she told you 4 times, and stuck with that AFTER you told about the polygraph, and she agreed, then over the next day or two she was able to get her stories straight with other man and two other times they thought you might later find out, so now it stands at six.

She said it only happened 4 times because "it only happened when the opportunity arose" but she did it with you right there and she met the guy 3-4 times a week for 8-9 months. Can you see how this does not make sense? In 8-9 months of 3-4 times a week, there must have been many more "opportunity arose," not just the 4 (well, now 6) times she said.

Who cares whether it's 4 or 6 or a number that she can't even remember how many (which is probably the truth and the only one that would make sense, that she probably did it at least once a week once the first time started)? But what does it matter about the number of times? The first one is the one that betrays, the sharpest knife. Why it matters is honesty, not because of whether 4 or 6 being the true number. Honesty, which she still is not giving you.

My observations are that you will never know the full truth. If you can get a story that makes sense, you probably are close enough to the truth that you can start moving forward. But the story she is telling you now makes no sense still. And if a story doesn't make sense, if it doesn't "add up," then it's almost always a lie. I also don't believe they didn't communicate by text or email when they were not together. If you can't find any communications via phone log, email you know about, probably there was a cheating app, words with games chat feature, something along those lines, less likely a burner phone, and there is always the refuge of work phone and emails.

I wish you would tell her that you don't believe her and the story is full of holes.

I'm sorry, I wish I could tell you that it was great she finally came clean, but this is the nature of cheaters, and your wife is just the typical. If you read the other threads here, you can find a few dozen in the past six months very similar to yours. I wish you wouldn't take it so hard, you will be OK. It takes time. The lie afterwards is what kills most marriages, not the affair itself, that is my observation and my own feelings.

You have done well in standing up for yourself and your M by moving out. That help you whether you R or D.

What makes something evil is the intent. There is an element that it was in your face to you with how the affair was conducted,

She has some anger or bitterness towards you.

How many times does not matter. You know she kept going back. You know that she would still be in the A if you had caught her.

Work on you make any decision from strength. Keep taking strong actions.

[This message edited by rambler at 9:59 AM, December 25th (Friday)]

RedBaron, you have a lot to consider. I am sorry, my friend, but remember, you do not have to myake any major decisions about your life or marriage. Time, a little space WILL help. You should consider the nature of the affair, though. If it was purely physical, with no emotional connection, there is, I truly believe, a chance at reconciliation (if you can live with that). IT may simply be that she is going through a midlife crisis. One day at a time your friend.

Yes Biggestmistake, which is exactly how I understand it, and I've said in my last post.

For now its all about me, and I will see when I can reach a point where I am fully prepared and equipped to make a choice about the future. The path to it, while being married (at his point) to a person I do not even want to look at, is a tough path. But like I said, and a lot of people have suggested, me first, everything else later.

Thank you all again for the kind support, it means a lot to me and has been an invaluable source of guidance in a very dark time of my life.

The path to it, while being married (at his point) to a person I do not even want to look at, is a tough path.

Regardless of the choice you end up making about your marriage, it is a tough path as you are left with the pain either way. Especially only weeks out, we all understand how it comes in waves and seems overwhelming. We are here for you as you take one day at a time.

I'm glad that you are focusing on self-care right now. Please keep a close eye on your nutrition and sleep. It is normal to have difficulty with both, but either can quickly turn into even worse problems if they are let go too long. If you struggle to get a handle on them, see a doctor sooner rather than later. Being able to get the emotions out can also provide some relief, so journaling, an IC, venting here on SI or exercise (anything from pounding a punching bag or just taking a walk) can all be therapeutic and give you room to just relax for a short time. While extremely difficult right now, finding anything to be thankful for can provide a ray of joy in the midst of the darkest of days. Watching a sunset, sitting by the fireplace, savoring a cup of tea/coffee, or anything else that YOU enjoy is a good start.

Sending you thoughts of strength and peace today!

It is possible 6 times is what really happened. I think though that she is in damage control mode. Is the other couple reconciling? Maybe she's afraid you would learn it from OBS.

Damage control is not necessarily bad, but it makes you question if it's regret or remorse.

RedBaron,

Glad to see you are still with us, although we gave you very reason not to be.

Progress. It's a step in the right direction. Good. And you are doing well in the face of horrible circumstances.

Multiple DDays are not uncommon as more and more revelations come to light. And yes, it's like day 1 all over again. While I hope it's not the case, please know it may happen again. Unfortunately, your wife may have told you a bit extra in the hopes that it will be enough to appease you, but not too much to ruin any chance of the two of you staying together. Sorry, I know it sounds horrible. To be that calculating. But as others have said, she is likely in damage control mode, which means self-preservation. Again, hopefully, this is it, but it may not be. Also, the fact that she offered to take a poly is a very good sign, but make sure to follow through. Don't take her to mean that she has been completely forthcoming. Remember, don't trust and verify.

Do you have any other support system? Family? Friends? Anyone you can lean on? It's times like these where they can really help. Continue to focus on you and your well being, as hard as it is. I needed to be reminded to do just that over and over again. The "Betrayed Spouse Diet" has been well documented.

Red - Honestly, it's way too early to determine what you want to do with your marriage. Similarly, what you are seeing from her is not remorse. Not yet. It's regret, shame, fear, all rolled into one. That's not necessarily a bad thing - it's normal. After all, she has been with him for 9 months and it didn't affect her during that time. Now that there are consequences...well, remorse may come. And even if it does, what she has done may be too much for you, understandably so. But you have time for that.

Hang in there. Keep posting. I hated doing it. And that's funny coming from a guy with 2 threads that combined, went well over 1,000 posts. I hated it though. I too reached dark places when I did. But I found it therapeutic. To bare my soul. And SI was my safe place for doing so. And this community is awesome. Take advantage of it.

We're here for you. Sending you strength and best wishes during this season.

-W

My opinion is you should still schedule the poly. For your own peace of mind. We have seen on here way too many times of a WS who has "come clean" and swore it was everything only to find out later that there was more, much more. It is sad to say but WS's are liars, they lie to do what they want when they want, they had to while trying to handle 2 separate lives. I would not only ask her more about this A, I would ask if there have been any others.

Listen if she goes to the poly and passes it then it will still give you great peace of mind that there is no more. I know its a lot to think about at one time, do what you want as we know you will, sometimes you can only take all of this pain in small doses. Take care of yourself.

Keep reading, Red. Take care. It gets better. Strength, friend.

The truth is that YOU now control the tempo of how things move forward.

You WW, at least in her words, has expressed her desire to reconcile. Many do not even want this.

So there is no need to rush into any actions. I would still recommend taking immediate steps to help you get out of this dark place that you slip into, but besides that, you NEED to take your time to absorb all that has happened. Infidelity...and dealing with the fallout...is a process.

You are doing well. You may not feel that way, but believe me---from seeing new members come here for the last 6 years, I can tell you that you are much further ahead....and going in the proper direction....than many others here at your timeframe.

Keep up the good work.

Red,

She has stated..............

When she came over, she said that she was very aware this could be the last time we talked

first, you 2 are away from each other.

second, she feels that she tells you more that she is putting the nail on the coffin.

What does she do when you 2 are not talking, let alone seeing each other?

does the other wife know and what is going on with her and him?

is your wife being truthful about not talking or seeing this guy, let alone any other guy?

what has she been doing besides hitting you with more hurtful news?

When the cheating person does this truth trickle, it just pushes the knife deeper. it just screws you up more and then you start seeing mind movies.

You can not heal if she is going to keep on doing this to you.

You need to read up on what "Remorseful" is and what it sounds like and looks like. the body language is very important for you to learn to visually read on her.

What does she want to do and ask her why?

you really need to look for a lawyer, put him on a retainer, you just never know what will happen.

Right now at this point you can not trust your wife. she has become someone you do not know and will not like.

this is protecting yourself!!

Also, if you are still needing to be apart, I suggest that she move out. she caused this and she needs to know more what she has done to you.

You need to come home and she needs to live in the apartment.

Red Baron

Now that all the arguing about "evil" has i hope played itself out, you made I believe a very true statement and that is that all infidelity is evil so lets leave it at that.

I am not decided if my wife's coming out clean is the whole truth, even though she has said lets go for a polygraph test any time. But for now, she needs to be making efforts towards making me feel better, whether or not I decide to stay with her. So at least she is doing that, honest or not, only time can tell.

The above is the crucial decision you have to make in my opinion. And that is to get the truth so that any decision you make down the road is based on fact, not speculation or hope.

You know, or it appears you do, that just accepting her word is not the greatest strategy, and that despite what she told you she is right now still sorry more sorry she got caught than truly concerned about you. She apparently did get some good advice from whoever she is seeing, but the problem is there are many instances here of a WW getting the same advice but still holding back or flat out lying.

i would think back yourself. You and your wife were constantly around these other two. Were there times you were out of town on business and she told you she was going out with BOTH of the other couple.???

The thing I still find very very hard to believe is that in 9 months they NEVER had more opportunities and that they ONLY chose times when it would be easy to get caught. Two folks that hot for each other must be incredibly disciplined to resist any more hook ups when it would be easier to get away with it and it would not be "wham bam,thank you mam".I find that part of this just too strange to believe.

I think wk55 has told you, but I will repeat it. many times the urge to poly by WW is a bluff and the hope is you will not do it.

Your smartest move is to go ahead and set it up, tell her, and then just wait. Tell her you need to hear any more from her and not the examiner. BUT GO THROUGH WITH THE TEST, no matter what she tells you.

Then, you will know whatever decision you make will come where you have done everything possible to get at the truth.

There will be no long term reconciliation without that cornerstone. You have seen how painful your mini D Day 2 was. it does not get any easier down the road.

Now that all the arguing about "evil" has i hope played itself out, you made I believe a very true statement and that is that all infidelity is evil so lets leave it at that.

Nice trick there, nononsense.

*sigh*

I spent a deployment in Iraq and Afghanistan, six months traveling Africa, and I read our own newspapers. I saw shootings, torture, purposely starved populations, indiscriminate bombings, rapes, assaults, and all sorts of mayhem committed against the weaker by the stronger. I see mass shootings, kids starved by parents, armed robberies, and on and on in our own papers. Those are evil.

Labeling as evil someone who wanted side sex to liven up their life, stave off the inevitable degradations of time, and bolster up a weak self-esteem is frankly a luxury that the majority of the population on the planet doesn't get to enjoy.

HoP - I may be wrong, but I don't think nononsense meant it quite the way you took it. I think he was just saying that infidelity as a whole is messed up. That's hard to disagree with.

I think I understand your concern about labeling something or someone as evil though, and I agree with you.

redbaron - i think you've received a lot of good advice. the only thing I would like to reiterate is the importance of getting all the truth. I know I couldn't even think of reconciling unless I had the complete truth. Once you have the truth, then you can assess things. Getting the complete truth has another benefit in that it forces your wife to confess to every thing she's done. That alone will force her to face the truth about herself and her actions. For someone worth keeping, that is very powerful. Really looking at yourself in the mirror is a sobering event.

[This message edited by mike7 at 10:13 AM, December 26th (Saturday)]

How are you feeling today?