SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Because D is very straightforward. File and move on. R takes years of work.

Really? There are people that have to wait long time for divorce; there are people who must live in an inhouse separation; some of them with narcissists; some are alienated from their children; some are denied of spousal support; some are harassed; some are falsely accused of violence; should I continue? This mere statement is the exact proof of what JB said. It is a very degrading statement towards those who decide to divorce. It's also very arrogant

[This message edited by ImGoneByTheDown at 12:34 PM, December 24th (Thursday)]

Sigh.

There is a divorce / separation forum for just that. If someone is bent on D that forum can provide all the guidance needed. JFO is to help a BS navigate the shock and emotion of finding out of his/her spouses betrayal and provide advice to get out of infidelity and support along the way. Our role here should be to direct the BS to that thread and continue to provide advice and support regarding their spouse's infidelity and how to stop it, etc.

[This message edited by Walloped at 12:41 PM, December 24th (Thursday)]

There is a divorce / separation forum for just that. If someone is bent on D that forum can provide all the guidance needed. JFO is to help a BS navigate the shock and emotion of finding out of his/her spouses betrayal and provide advice to get out of infidelity and support along the way. Our role here should be to direct the BS to that thread and continue to provide advice and support regarding their spouse's infidelity and how to stop it, etc.

This is true but nothing to do with JB's statement and especially with yours. You didn't point to the practicalities, you made a general statement. It says it's all. I was pointing to the latter, not the former. What I say is still valid. Whether there is a forum like that or not has nothing to do with it as a general statemtnt. I still stay behind my statement that as a general declaration it is degrading to those who divorce and it is arrogant

[This message edited by ImGoneByTheDown at 12:45 PM, December 24th (Thursday)]

Because they fucked practically in front of their unknowing spouses, this IS evil! To have sex in situations where you may be "caught" by strangers, is one thing. But to have sex with your spouse basically in bed with you and the AP is beyond sick, it's evil.

The point is that they did not want to be caught, all WSs think they will never be caught. Add in the alcohol and I doubt there was any plan of any kind, or constructive thinking.

If they wanted to be caught as some here say, they would have been singing the Star Spangled Banner while having sex.

The point is that they did not want to be caught, all WSs think they will never be caught.

Once again as this is a recycling without giving any new explanation, I will recycle mines on this. That statement has no relevance as to the nature of evil and once again it's only contributed to the excitement of power and control as the cheater thinks he's so sophisticated to do it. Whether he gets caught or not is irrelevant..

Add in the alcohol and I doubt there was any plan of any kind, or constructive thinking.

This simply shows that their arrogance and the belief that they are so sophisticated that they would never be caught says nothing about the nature of evil. It simply say that being so arrogant, so evil and so selfish they just did one step to much. It's only emphasizing the evil; emphasizing its banality. By the way, he mentioned that arrogance was somehow a part of her personality.

I really am not knocked out of my chair as I am telling all the time her affair is deeply seated in her mind and on her mental stream. Unless she challenges her mindset and it will not happen with reading some books about infidelity or going to MC as MC has nothing to do with her mindset, simply because her mindset is not rooted in the marriage dynamics but the impaired dynamics in her mind, she will not adress the problem. What she needs is a really good IC that will help her coping with the sick mindset that led her to cheat and will not sugar coat her problems

In the bottom line SpecialK is right

[This message edited by ImGoneByTheDown at 1:25 PM, December 24th (Thursday)]

Each choice facing us BSs (i.e., divorce or attempt reconciliation) is difficult and traumatic. Each takes years to process and entails its own painful path, losses, and benefits.

Red Baron, one thing at a time... Your primary task right now is to take of you. YOU being as whole and healthy as possible amidst your trauma and agony is essential to any possible next steps/decisions you make.

As to "evil," that's a whole 'nother conversation that is irrelevant right now. Whether she/they did it to hurt you intentionally or not, just doesn't matter at this point. That's about them, not you. (Usually the WS simply isn't thinking of their spouse at all--which is another source of anguish.)

In addition to taking care of you, focus on extricating yourself from infidelity. Part of that is learning as much truth as you need to feel complete as regards the betrayal. You cannot rely on your WS for this; waywards of necessity are liars. (Trust is also irrelevant right now; it may or may not come later...)

Your WS has demonstrated a capacity for lying beyond what you (and all of us with our waywards) deemed possible, so to get out of infidelity, everything she says must be verified. In addition, you need actively to learn the full truth; lies of omission are as important as commission. It's the deceit that makes infidelity so traumatic. It's why this trauma so dramatically exceeds the pain of our spouse simply dying... There is no deceit in death.

Unfair or not, it's up to you now to take care of yourself and get out of infidelity. Next steps can wait.

One last thing... As impossible as it may seem, you will make it through this. Have faith that no matter what happens, you will be okay. You will get to the point that you will look back and be grateful for everything in your life. I'm grateful that my experience has me here right now, writing (and hopefully helping) you.

Blessings, LA

[This message edited by livinganew at 1:43 PM, December 24th (Thursday)]

Imgonebythedow - a while back you wrote:

For something to be evil, it can be either an active (= on purpose) or a passive (= being callous or don't give a shit about anything and any outcome) intention. Passive aggressive behavior can be also evil;

Who are you to define evil?

Awesome post, LA! It was very helpful to me so thanks! I hope Red reads it and finds it as helpful as I do.

Who are you to define evil?

Exacly as those who abstain/avoid/decide to not define it as such

[This message edited by ImGoneByTheDown at 1:51 PM, December 24th (Thursday)]

exactly, just another opinion.

waxing poetic about the nature of evil and presenting your arguments and pretentions in response to others in an effort to prove your point in your own mind, seems really pompous. But whether it is or not, it doesn't really help someone trying to come to grips with what their spouse has done. it's just name-calling.

Hi Red Baron,

I don't know if you're still reading since your last post is on page 3. I hope you haven't gotten lost in all the arguing back and forth.

First, you need to take care of yourself. That is paramount. Drink plenty of water. Get some nutrition shakes if you're having trouble eating (as many of us have).

Second, the intrusive thoughts can be very distracting. You're more prone to car accidents and work accidents if you're having difficulty. I found that writing an intrusive thought in a journal to come back to allowed me to let it go long enough to get through what I needed. Then I could come back to it when I was in a safer place to revisit it.

This is YOUR life. You get to decide what to do with it. You have suffered a huge trauma. In your case, the fact that it was a friend makes it a double-betrayal. It is your choice whether continued contact with his wife is helpful or harmful to your healing. You know your wife better than anyone. If you choose to reconcile, the books in the healing library will help you determine whether you see true remorse or regret and the reconciliation forum is very helpful, too. If you choose to divorce, the divorce forum has a great group of people who have navigated those waters well. You have choices and you have time to make them. Breathe. You will get through this.

Your wife needs help whether you divorce or don't. Someone called her behavior 'thrill seeking'. That's pretty accurate given the locations and proximity of spouses during the acts. Someone else called her 'disrespectful' and that's also pretty accurate. Having sex with someone else with your spouse in the room is definitely not respectful behavior. Clearly, she needs work on her boundaries and her idea of what is exciting. She isn't a safe partner for anyone without a deep look at what led her to that behavior and a strong plan for avoiding it. That work may be intensive. You'll have to decide if you want to be there while she's doing that work.

Someone else talked about you being emasculated. You are only emasculated if you chose to feel that way. How your wife treated you has nothing to do with who you really are as a man. You don't have to change who you are in an effort to make anyone else treat you a certain way. There is nothing wrong with you. There is, however, something very wrong with your wife. A woman who has a kind, loving husband who is wise reciprocates. She doesn't sleep with a friend's husband in the same room. She is the one who needs the work here. She betrayed you and her friend and muse have gotten some thrill to do so more than once. Clearly, her moral compass is broken in every way possible. That's not on you to fix. And if she can't help you heal while she's fixing it, it's not on you to stick around and watch her fix it. Your primary focus right now should be your own healing. You should do that in the way that works best for you, with or without her. And if you liked the man you were right up until the moment she did this, don't let her douchebaggery change him.

[This message edited by Tearsoflove at 1:57 PM, December 24th (Thursday)]

I think the topic of "evil" is interesting and relevant to infidelity. I also think it's somewhat a T/J in JFO...

How about someone start a separate thread for it in the "General" forum?

Thx, LA

exactly, just another opinion.

No one claimed otherwise. The same can be said about your post as well. Once again we're exactly at the same point and whether one wants to hear or not to mine and your perspective is neither to me or you. Let's keep the discussion not personal, but about the essense

[This message edited by ImGoneByTheDown at 1:58 PM, December 24th (Thursday)]

oh... so you can call people's actions evil based on your own definition, and argue about it relentlessly. But when someone asks how you justify your own definitions you claim it's just an opinion and then ask not to get personal?

is that essentially what you're saying?

waxing poetic about the nature of evil and presenting your arguments and pretentions in response to others in an effort to prove your point in your own mind, seems really pompous. But whether it is or not, it doesn't really help someone trying to come to grips with what their spouse has done. it's just name-calling

You to as many others read what you want and instead of discussing thing derail it to a personal level. There is nothing less or more to prove my point than it is with others. And letting someone understand what going on is not poetic but necessary approach to help him. However, name calling is not only selective reading but an invention. Not less or more than this. Let's again stay but the facts and essence. When I'm confronted with different points I do not resort to arguments like yours, try to approach in a more practical way

oh... so you can call people's actions evil based on your own definition, and argue about it relentlessly. But when someone asks how you justify your own definitions you claim it's just an opinion and then ask not to get personal?

is that essentially what you're saying?

1.I do not define it on my own definition

2.You didn't ask how I define evil and what are the sources

3.Your question was derogative in its nature and I'm perfectly fine with it. Sometime it happens in discussion – not trying to discuss or understand anything

4.Yes, you don't addressing 1 to 3 I can claim it and especially as I'm am not acting in that way

[This message edited by ImGoneByTheDown at 2:13 PM, December 24th (Thursday)]

Gents, please take it outside.

Gents, please take it outside.

Agreed

ImGoneByTheDown...

With all your arguing after 30 posts on this thread, you've most likely scared the BS off of his own place for support.

Do not post on this thread any further.

Okay, TRB, let's start anew... Are you there? How are you doing today?

Blessings, LA