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Doesn’t matter if you intended to say those words or not,

You have & you needed to IMO.

Sometimes the head says what the heart can’t.

You have been in this state of limbo for so long it was only a matter of time before you subconsciously made this decision.

Maybe this will bring her out of her fog maybe it won’t,

You can’t singularly save a marriage, At some point she has to start taking responsibility for her actions.

Strength to you Elvis,

^^^^^ yep, living in fear in these situations always makes it worse for the betrayed.

This isn't the end of the world like you think it is.

You don't stand up for yourself you'll just stay in limbo hell longer.

BTW she's ok with that because you don't matter all that much.

My H had NO REMORSE after dday1.

When I stood up to him on dday2 - that’s when things started changing and he realized I was no longer a doormat.

Many thanks to the SI community for so many responses, extremely helpful over the past weekend and into this week.

Incredible how many of my internal thoughts were validated by comments, including:

I'd up the ante and tell her she'll need to get a job too, just in case the separation doesn't turn out to be an effective motivator for her.  - ChamomileTea

I included this in my list of conditions for her to meet in order for me to reconsider asking her to move out

If your WW truly wanted R, she would do what YOU need to heal, and if that included moving out, so be it.  - RocketRaccoon 

My thought exactly, and supporting my belief that her moving out did not automatically mean divorce.  That if she really wanted me, she'd be able to work on showing me remorse no matter where she slept.

sometimes those "out of nowhere" feelings are your subconscious doing you a solid. - EllieKMAS 

This resonated with me many times over the weekend.  Trying to understand where my demand came from and wondering if subconsciously something inside me fought through the pain and laid down an ultimatum.

Your WW claims that she doesnt know how to help you so she does nothing. We all here in SI call BS to this. It's up to her to try, try and try again to help us BS attempt to heal. Your WW would rather talk the talk then walk the walk  - NoOptTo

My frustration, angst and longing summarized in three sentences.

I don’t know what you put in that list, but that is truly the most important thing you wrote yesterday. You need to see and hear certain things from her, and if you don’t, then you cannot live a happy life with her. That is the key.So to be honest, I suggest you focus on this aspect and not whether or not she moves out right now. - Stevesn

Stevesn, I cannot overstate the impact your words had on me. So much thought in your response.  Thank you for articulating feelings I have been struggling to put into words.  I have re-read your post so many times that I'm close to putting into my own words for her.

Again, thank you all for the reassuring comments.

Let me show my continued ignorance by admitting that when I asked her to move out, I honestly thought it was asking her to simply sleep somewhere else while continuing to work towards showing me remorse.  She immediately saw my request for her to move out as asking for a separation. I made no connection to this request being a request for a formal separation.  I know.  But I hadn't planned on asking her to leave and hadn't thought through the actual logistics.  I was pissed and just wanted to get her the F out of the house because I was fed up with being in limbo or just surviving by pretending everything was ok.

After my previous post, she made excuses to walk past me in the living room and finally asked what I was doing.  It was her reluctant offering to engage. I bit and asked her if she wanted to hang out and talk.

She admitted that she talked to her dad and told him that I had asked her to move out.  He advised her that if we were to separate that we should do it legally and that she should contact a divorce attorney. I told her she had every right to retain a lawyer for advice but explained that I simply wanted her to be somewhere else - not that I wanted to formally separate.

It wasn't how I wanted it to come up, but I had to explain to her that I wanted her to ask me to reconsider demanding she move out.  I made her ask.  After she asked, I told her if she did certain things that I would reconsider.

Again, because I hadn't planned on asking her to move out I hadn't quite completed my conditions and wasn't immediately ready to share.  I told her that essentially I was done waiting for her to do the things I have been waiting for her to do.  And that as much as it would mean to me if she did these things for me on her own, I could see that she was too restricted by her own grief and shame to get close to considering what I needed so I would spell it out for her.

She cried, legit cried, for the first time that felt legit to me and opened up to me about some of her feelings about the affair.  It felt real.  She begged me to let her stay and work towards figuring out how to show me remorse. She stated she would do whatever it takes to make me feel her love and would do whatever I asked.

I am likely a fool, and clearly I wanted to believe all this, so I told her she could stay as long as she agreed to my conditions.

To my WW:Overall idea is to have you lead and engage the process of discussing your affair with me.  No more games. My goal is to have you help me heal now.

- Send an email to AP telling him what you really think of him and your relationship.  Let me read it before you send it to him.

I left for my work trip the next day (Monday).  Flying home tomorrow (Wednesday).  Hoping to see some progress but trying to channel Stevesn's comment and engage only when I feel she is working to help me heal. We shall see.

I like your plan.

I think you need to include boundaries about acceptable behavior in the future. Like her interaction with men in the future type of thing. No texting or sexting type of thing. No lunches or social events after work type of thing without your approval.

There is an easy guide for her. The book "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald. It gives a road map for WW's. Tell her to read it and do everything in that book.

Your list is a good one, Elvis and not at all unreasonable. I might add complete transparency/phones of phones/emails/whatever you feel you want if you do not already have it. Sometimes its frustrating to have to tell our wayward spouses what we need but it's necessary to get the action we need. They are Waywards for a reason - they do not have these tools. This drove me nuts for a period following D-Day, it felt enormously unfair that I seemed to be putting more effort into things than my husband did. Once I gave him a tangible list/roadmap however, he was much better about following it.

The thing that is good about a list is that you have an objective list of things you have told her she needs to do. You can compare her efforts to what you have given her. One thing I'd encourage you to think about is what the consequences will be for her if she fails to meet these requirements. Its a good idea to make sure those consequences are clear in your mind BEFORE you need to exercise them, so that you can act decisively and swiftly in the event that they are not met. Your wife appears to be motivated by consequences so I think that this is especially important for you.

I, too, hope she starts to take responsibility for her actions.

Hi Elvis...

Hope you made it home ok. What happened when you got there?

I sent you more info in a private message. You should be able to get to it from your profile page.

Sending you thoughts of strength.