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Thanks everyone for responses. I read parts of the letter to my counselor. She felt it would come across as controlling and I may not get the response I am looking for. I said I didn't care if it came across as controlling, that this is what I need. It was my EAP counselor and the last session was yesterday. I am starting up with a long term councilor next week.

My wife does very little personal training as it is. She teaches more fitness classes in her week. Now that the affair is over she does no personal training. Her income supplements our household income in a small way. She works 15 hours a week normally as she carts our kids to school and activities and makes meals for the family. She was visiting her AP in the evenings after dinner.

Last night I was very angry and laid into my wife for not seeing the affair for what it was. I am tired. I have the flu on top of it all.

This is exactly the situation. "It sounds like your WW letting her bad girl out" makes my situation more challenging. Can someone please clarify?

Bedman

Her best friend her mother died in July last year and my wife attributes her sadness depression around this to why she felt entitled to the affair.

Bedman

Sometimes being reminded about your own mortality changes how you think. It’s like saving your entire life for the future and then realizing that you’re going to die and you can’t take it with you. You study in school, you do everything proper so that people will respect you. You denied yourself fun. Then you decide what the hell and go for it.

If she’s willing or wants to do those things with you then she might be sexually submissive. The OM told her what to do and she liked it.

I read parts of the letter to my counselor. She felt it would come across as controlling and I may not get the response I am looking for.

Bedman

I agree with your counselor. Sometimes it’s not what you do it’s how you do it. Don’t demand that your wife do anything. You can only control yourself. Just tell her what you need to continue the marriage. If you don’t get it then you will walk and wish her a happy life. Then start discussing co-parenting arrangements.

DO NOT BLUFF. If you’re not prepared to walk then don’t say it. There is nothing more pathetic than a helpless person huffing and puffing about what they’re going to do when everyone knows that at the end of the day nothing will happen.

If there is no way in the world that you will ever divorce her then you have placed yourself in a box. If divorce is off the table then all you can do is whine about your wife breaking her vows and about how very bad that is.

[This message edited by Graywolf at 9:42 AM, July 9th (Saturday)]

I agree with the counselor, it looks like a wall of words and it looks overwhelming, and controlling is like beauty, it is in the eyes of the beholder. Yet I still like the letter. Despite the wall of words, most of it is just normal stuff that a husband and wife do to have normal boundaries in a marriage.

Tell her you can't control her, if you could, you would have controlled her from sexing another man. Tell her she can sex whoever she wants whenever she wants, just not married to you. You are not controlling her, you are controlling only yourself and what is acceptable in your marriage. At this point in time, this is what you need, and this is because of how SHE CHEATED and SHE LIED and would still be doing it if you didn't catch her. You have NO TRUST for her now, YOU HAVE DOUBTS, AND FOR A GOOD REASON.

If she doesn't WILLINGLY want to help you repair this trust, then so be it, you CANNOT CONTROL HER. But this is what you are ASKING to save this marriage and make it a SAFE ENVIRONMENT to rebuild trust.

I told my wife what I needed from her. I didn't read the letter. I just did it by memory. It didn't go over very well. She said she loved her job and you can't make me leave. You are going to make the kids change homes and give up all the friends they have. She called my request to not wear her hair in a side braid ridiculous. I told her I was asking for a calm rational conversation about her quitting her job about us moving. She said she had a lot to think about. She then threw in the fact that she will be single for the rest of her life and just fuck a lot of guys. I said I needed to go out. I won't stand for the disrespect and I left. Before I got out the door she said you can't go I am going come.one boys we are going to see grandpa ( her father).

This is the reaction I expected.

You have done exactly what was needed. You have laid out your terms and conditions, and it is now up to her whether she will accept them or not. You must make peace with the fact that you can't control her actions. You can only control your own. As such that is what you must focus on.

The irony of your WS saying your children will be affected because of your reaction to her A is lost on her. Her words tell you that your family will be broken up because of your needs to heal, not because she had sex with somebody else. This mentality gives you a glimpse of where she really is at mentally.

Now that you have laid out your terms, sit back and watch. How long is up to you, but a point in time will come when you will no longer care. Personally speaking, I wouldn't wait too long because there is nothing to "think" about. This is a binary choice. She either wants to be married to you and is willing to do what it takes, or she is not. It really is that simple. Let me "think about it" is just a way to buy time to let this blow over in my eyes. In your shoes I would begin to do the 180. Emotionally detaching from your toxic environment will do you a lot of good and it will help you clear your head. Good luck.

Thanks Jigga. That helped. I am staying with a friend tonight. He said I could stay for as long as I want. Hitting the town tonight.

bedman, I hope you can see that she is not remorseful at all and is, in fact, quite defiant.

This is no basis for any kind of reconciliation - hell, I wouldn't even be polite to her after that last exchange.

Its over - let her go be single and fuck a lot of guys as she is threatening - lets see how that works out for her after the first dozen guys!

You need to protect yourself and the kids. Her refusal to leave her job and not wear her hair as you said, is unbelievable! She doesn't want a reconciliation at all - just the freedom to fuck around while you are a stable supplier.

Kick her out now or at the very least divorce her and do not engage her unless it is do with the kids.

Good luck!

2 months since Dday. It got better and then it got worse. Yes she has never been truly remorseful. The problem I see is that I asked her to leave in mid-late may and her attitude changed for the better. I told all of our families what happened and her attitude changed again . I told her what I needed and I have moved out. I am sure she will pull something else out of her bag of tricks.

I have spoken to her briefly saying I wanted to speak with the kids and stop by to pick up a few items I forgit. She only had one word responses in a pouty way.

I am committed to the 180

Small problem is we have a 2 hour MC session set for Monday afternoon that can't be cancelled at this point. I need to perfect the 180 in 2 days. I must admit I am feeling week at times.I don't hide my emotions well.

If the MC wants to rugsweep or blame the affair on you get up and walk out.

They are not gods. Some are good some aren't.

No remourse = this won't work out.

Good luck

...and I left the full letter on our bed for her to read before I packed my bags and left.

She hadont heard the first point where she was to use her wages from AP to fund her IC. For the record he gave her 2 large monetary gifts and those were used to pay household bills on my request. She has kept or spent about $5,000 that she made training him and his son.

[This message edited by bedman at 10:58 AM, July 10th (Sunday)]

You should go to the MC session. It might help her understand.

The 180 is not about getting her to change, by the way. It is about training yourself to detach emotionally from her so you can make better decisions.

This is our 6th MC session. My worry is that I may not be able to fully separate from. The emotion in the MC session. It's 2 hours where they will try and convince me to not give up. I need some mantras to bring to the session that I can repeat over and over again. I know some can be found in some responses here.

Thanks everyone.

Bedman, think that you can and you will. If you keep repeating yourself 'I may not be able' then you won't. It is a self-fulfillment prophecy thing.

Change your inner dialog and say to yourself. 'I can and I wll'. Prepare yourself. Imagine the situation in your mind and imagine yourself doing it and you will.

You need to change you attitude and trust you are stronger of what you think.

In any case if you don't feel like going, then don't go. You are in control ofyour own life now.

Good luck.

[This message edited by Esteban at 8:34 AM, July 10th (Sunday)]

I have spoken to her briefly saying I wanted to speak with the kids and stop by to pick up a few items I forgit. She only had one word responses in a pouty way.

No remourse. She's planning on you to "get over it". She was not on the receiving end of this and it doesn't seem like she's doing much to rectify the situation.

Your life is going to be what you make it. You can't fix her but you need to fix yourself.

It's 2 hours where they will try and convince me to not give up.

Tell them that the problem isn't you "giving up". Tell them you are already emotionally headed out the door. Tell them the problem is that your WW isn't doing anything to convince you that SHE is fighting for the marriage. Tell them SHE has not been authentic in her actions and intent nor emphatic at all to your pain and need to heal. Tell them your WW should be at a point where she is proactively doing anything and everything to make you feel safe and understood. Tell them your WW needs to put on the big girl panties and take responsibility in full for her actions. Tell them that if you're being asked to deal with your pain on your own, to just "take it" and get over it, that will do so in a way that millions of other betrayed spouses that are told that same shitty advice, and that is to divorce their wayward spouse who broke the vows and move on with life to heal.

I thought I would try and get caught up on work as it has been suffering. I am in my office but can't get anything done. I can't focus for more than a couple of minutes at a time.

I went to the gym yesterday afternoon, a 45 minute run this morning, eating a clean diet, no caffeine, lots of water. I just remembered I had 5 hours of sleep last night, which would explain some of it.

I am worried for my job. I have big deadlines July 27 and am just spinning my wheels.

I've been on anti-depressants before and hate the side effects for little benefit. I am white knuckling it right now to stay calm and somewhat focused.

I hate her for what she did to our family and then not being remorseful and not truly wanting to make amends.

I just spontaneously spawned an idea to help wreak some anxiety on the AP. I have my wife's old email under my control. I could send him an email saying she just found out she has an STD. I could hang a banner on one of his establishments or his home that says he has aids. I am sure there are enough skeletons in the closet for this guy that he'd never guess who did something like that. The obsession can be endless.

She then threw in the fact that she will be single for the rest of her life and just fuck a lot of guys

With a WW with an attitude like that & remorseful as she's not, then D is about the only option. Cause even if you stay married to the budding porn star I don't think her A will be her last audition.

Another better idea: return every dollar my wife "earned" back to the scum bag. I am trying to decide if I should hand deliver it? Or put it in an unaddressed envelope and just deliver it to his company for whoever to open it with the NC letter attached. Or maybe I divide the money up into equal portions with the NC letter for each employee of his company and have it dispursed amongst his office. Any other ideas on how to return the money with a splash or maybe a milder approach is better. How about this: a letter saying: "thanks for helping breaking up our family, my 3 sons really appreciate it, quick draw mcgraw" or "I've heard from 2 women that have slept with you that your horrible in bed, there is a treatment for premature ejaculation". Showing anger probably not the best approach. Just the NC letter? I'll have to deliver cash.

You really don't need to be focusing on the AP. While the guy is clearly a scumbag and a snake it's clear who the problem is. He doesn't give a shit about hurting you, he doesn't give a shit about your wife, he doesn't give a shit about your kids. He just wanted a piece of ass and he got it. He didn't make any vows to you. Your wife did. The AP didn't betray you. Your wife did. The AP owes you nothing. Your wife does. Going after him is a waste of time and is just going to make you look foolish. That acrimony you're feeling towards him should be for your wife.

If I were you I wouldn't even bother going to the MC counseling session. You should be speaking with a lawyer. I'm all for giving R a shot but after reading this entire thread it's clear you've been spinning your wheels while your wife at her best gave you nothing but nice sounding words and a letter.

She's not going to do anything to help you, your marriage, or your family if it's too inconvenient to her own wants and desires. That should really tell you where you stand.

Exposing and filing for divorce closer to D-day from what I've seen is probably the biggest factor in getting a spouse to feel remorse, out of the fog, and motivate them to work on the marriage. Unfortunately your wife really hasn't had to face any consequences from you whatsoever for her affair. At this point it seems quite obvious she didn't have much respect for you but letting her behave the way she has lowered that respect even more.

I'm not trying to pile on you, but you really need to grasp that your approach to this situation has not helped you much. Even now I think it's possible for you to reconcile but as someone stated earlier "You have to be willing to lose the marriage to save it". As long as you keep acting out of fear: fear for your kids, fear of divorce, fear of driving your wife away, etc then even if your marriage does someone last (which it probably won't) you'll be miserable and your wife isn't going to change for the better.

In your situation I'd recommend that:

1. You skip the MC session. I don't care if you can't cancel it or not or if it's paid for. MC has been a waste of time in your case because your wife obviously isn't remorseful. Not showing up sends a strong message that you've reached the end of your rope.

2. See a divorce lawyer or two, especially if you can get free consultations. Honestly I always feel this should be done as close to D-day as possible. Doesn't mean you actually have to go through with divorce but you can get a feel for your options and many times separation papers or outright filing is enough to wake a spouse in the fog up and motivate them to want to work on the marriage. As I said, your wife has faced no consequences besides exposure and all she's giving you in return are words and heart felt letters.

3. Start the 180. Not to get your wife back, which is not the point of the 180, but to get yourself in a healthy emotional state and prepare you if things don't work out. It will also help because it sounds like you wear your emotions on your sleeve, which isn't necessarily a bad thing but in your current situation that can cause a lot more harm than good.

4. Think about getting on anti-depressants and read No More Mr. Nice Guy if you haven't. It's a PDF file you can read for free if you google it. Besides your low self-esteem you sound pretty co-dependent. I wasn't surprised at all when you said your father left when you were young and you were raised by a single mother. I've seen too many good men in the same boat who treat their wives great yet let their wives walk all over them because they're afraid of their kids being in single parent homes like they were.

5. I'd stop talking about your marriage and the affair for the time being. There's no point because there's only one of you who seems legitimately interested in healing your relationship for the sake of your marriage and your family. And it's not your wife. I'd limit any conversations to the kids, living arrangements, and once you speak to some lawyers separation and divorce. If she tries to bring up any other subject tell her you're not going to discuss it or just walk away.

6. You should be carrying a VAR on you at all times. Your wife comes off like the type who would be willing to file false domestic violence charges. And believe me that can REALLY make things difficult for you. I don't care how well you think you know your wife or what you think she is or isn't capable of. I'm sure at one point you never thought she'd cheat on you. Get one ASAP.

Again, I'm not saying there's no chance for reconciliation but you really need to start playing hard ball if you want a shot at saving your marriage. And if you can't, then protecting your emotional and mental health so you can be there for your kids.

[This message edited by JS84 at 3:35 AM, July 11th (Monday)]