SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi AH

Hope this finds you well and ready to go back to work soon. I am sure you are finding things to do around the property but itching to get back on the job.

You trust yourself to know what's best for you, and also to know that YOU ARE ENOUGH if it all goes to shit and you need to make another choice.

This is the head space I have been hoping for since day one!!! You AH, are ENOUGH, you are a prize. She f,d up not you, YOU can and will have a good happy fulfilled life D or R. I am thrilled you wrote this and believe it.

I won’t have to split time with the kids and future grandchildren

This is the only thing that bugs me with my first wife, she is so good with the grand-kids and have thought we would have been good together. I just hope her shitty character isn't contagious.

assets will remain intact

You are still in your prime, don't worry about the money, you will do fine in the next 20 years.

I got a lot of things to work on including my own fuckups

AH seriously go back to the first quote, you are enough, you did not deserve in ANY way to be betrayed. Sure we should all look in the mirror and fix ourselves, but do not take on any of her affair as yours. Sure you could learn more EQ (emotional intelligence), I am sure you have and will.

I spent 20 yrs thinking "what could I have done differently, maybe my wife would have loved me". That finally fell completely apart when my daughter informed me this summer EXWW was cheating for years. BTW she is and was the perfect singing in the choir church going hypocrite too. It never mattered that I worked too much, did not turn her on, gave too much to the church (that bugged her) she has a severe flaw, not me.

Nothing you did caused the affair. She should have looked at all your amazing qualities. You work hard, clean, cook, help the neighbors, go on vacations, ect. She should have seen the qualities you have and loved them, thus loved you. She could have found a nerf bat and beaten you for your low EQ.

I sincerely hope she can find her way back, become the women you and God can be proud of. I believe she can do that, she became addicted and now has to deal with, the why and get clean.

Sleep Well AH

Organic2003

[This message edited by Organic2003 at 12:31 AM, September 30th, 2020 (Wednesday)]

Organic2003, I appreciate your comment, just to explain one thing, I was only responding to Thumos question " what are the things my WW provides that I won't find in any other woman" when I talked about not splitting assets and sharing grandchildren, I didn't mean that these are going to help me erase the memory of the last 2 years.

AH seriously go back to the first quote, you are enough, you did not deserve in ANY way to be betrayed. Sure we should all look in the mirror and fix ourselves, but do not take on any of her affair as yours. Sure you could learn more EQ (emotional intelligence), I am sure you have and will.

Organic, I like the word Emotional intelligence EQ, I asked my daughter once her honest opinion about me as husband, she said that while I have many good qualities I could be too tough for any woman, I guess she was referring to my lack of EQ, Again I'm not excusing my WW affair, but what I can't believe is how oblivious I had been for years to a point where even the red flags weren't a any sign of trouble for me. To give you an idea of who really I'm, I will give you some examples. my typical working day starts at 5:00 in the morning,and ends around 4 in the afternoon. when I'm home I'm either doing yard work, organizing the shop or working on one of the vehicles. When I mow the grass I do it for 2 of my neighbors too. 90% of the times I cook dinner and do the dishes. weather permitting my favorite thing to do at night is burning logs in my outdoor fire pit. I'm obsessed with cleaning, so every weekend I just do a major cleaning that most people do couple of times a year, I do it twice a month. This where my lack of EQ comes from unfortunately it is genetic, I inherited this from my mom and her dad. I'm a copy image of my grandpa except grandma never cheated on him.

back to my situation, for whatever reason I don't see myself following the emotional path that many BS experience according to what I've read here, am I normal if I don't dwell on the fact that she had an affair? because I really don't anymore. I'm more concern about whether we are good to each other or not than what really happened.

Today is an important day, I headed for a COVID retest, wish me good lock, I really need to go out and take care of lots of busness. hopefully I'll get my negative test result before the weekend.

90% of the times I cook dinner and do the dishes.

Wtf!! Do you have any idea how much in demand men like that are? Apparently the biggest turn on for women is not how good looking a man is, nor the size of his endowment but a man who does housework is more likely to get sex than a man who does nothing.

You keep finding ways to put yourself down and I wonder why is that? It’s possible that none of the work you did was appreciated by your wife. Is it really worthwhile waiting so long? Maybe a quicker divorce will help you. If she wants you back ask her to get in line behind the ladies who will appreciate you when you are single and free.

am I normal if I don't dwell on the fact that she had an affair?

I don't know whether it is normal or not, what matters is how YOU heal and how you choose to move forward. No one can tell you how to do it, nor can anyone say it is right or wrong for you. It is up to you to decide to continue or end your M and if you continue, you and your WW decide best how to make it work. No relationship is perfect. For me, I focus on what I like about my partner and I don't dwell on the things I dislike. If something is enough of a problem, I will talk to her about it and try to resolve. But since I focus on all the things I love about her and positive things, it makes it easier to overlook some minor problems. The point is, if you can do the same with your WW and being married to her makes you happy, than there is nothing wrong with that choice. You know yourself best.

So not only do you provide the family business upon which your WW's security was based and that served as the platform for her to launch a real estate career, you also do most of the cooking and cleaning and domestic work around the house.

And your wife was checked out for 6 years and got up to God knows what (because she could, because you did everything) she also got a meaningful tattoo that excluded you (because why would she include the manservant and pack mule?) procured a long term FWB f-buddy whose brains she screwed out for more than 700 days, demeaned you to him constantly, disdained a vacation to Canada, and planned for how she was going to leave you high and dry once she'd sucked everything she could from you through emotional vampirism.

Do I have that about right?

In light of what you've disclosed about how you have essentially served as the domestic servant to her, her behavior with the heater/furnace episode makes COMPLETE sense to me now. It also makes sense as to why she would have no grasp at all why this was so disrespectful and had to have her pastor explain it to her. After all, if she viewed you as the manservant around the house, why would it matter if she needed one more errand from you.

And it also makes sense as to why she is scrambling wildly and madly to preserve her situation. Because who wouldn't want such a deal?

You're worth a helluva lot more than her, AHGuy. Hope you really begin to value yourself as a man and stop tearing yourself down.

She's pretty much damaged goods. I'm sure I'll get accused of being all mean-spirited and all, but everyone on this site knows very well the physical revulsion that comes with knowing your spouse has been with someone else.

You say you're feeling pretty blank about the whole thing and not all that worked up about her polygamous sex life and her willingly offering up her body to another man for two years.

Ok.

Did you know your body has been flooded with endogenous opioids that biology seems to have designed to numb you out as a result of emotional shock?

What do you think happens when that wears off? (and it will)

As you yourself said, I don't see much that she actually brings to the table other than preserving entangled assets and the rather nebulous concept of grandchildren not being with two separate grandparents.

(Side note: one set of my grandparents were divorced, and it made no difference to me as grandchild at all - I got showered with attention and trips from both of them all the time. I was giddy with excitement every time one of them was coming to visit because I knew I was going to be the object of their affection and attention all by myself).

You should consider being more cold and clinical about it and really take a hard look at all of that.

PS. Hoping for the very best outcome on the COVID results and that you now have the antibodies.

[This message edited by Thumos at 9:21 AM, September 30th (Wednesday)]

AHGuy, it would help you to pick up a copy of "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover and potentially change your perspective on your marriage a bit.

I'd also like to point out that it may be revealing for you to take the Love Languages test. What you are describing is called "Acts of Service" and there are women who would KILL to have a husband like you because that is their love language. Even if this is not your WW's love language, that isn't your fault because YOU were doing everything you could to prove your love for her and make her happy. She was not doing that for you. She was too busy making herself happy and alleviating any guilt and blame that came with it by pointing out your flaws. The onus was on her to communicate better and work with you instead of working against you like she did.

Really, did you even have the time and energy to put towards dealing with her issues way back then? Imagine this - a woman with young kids who goes to work at 5 AM, gets home at 4 PM, does 90% of the cooking and dishes, does her share of cleaning and then some, and assists the neighbors with their chores when she does her own. I'm assuming you also weren't ignoring your children during all this and were helping out with baths and bed times too. Her husband goes out with friends to drink frequently, blames her for not being more creative with their vacation choice, and cheats on her for 2 years with his rich lady boss. Do you think she should be ashamed for not doing more for him when she did so much for him already by financially supporting him when his business was starting up and taking care of his kids when he was busy partying? Do you think she has just as much responsibility in the break down of their marriage and that all her contributions don't mean as much when compared to her WH? I'm betting you're not. I'm betting if her WH was your friend, you'd want to smack the crap out of him for treating her so badly and taking advantage of her. Now remember - you are in the same situation as her and you are JUST as worthy of compassion and forgiveness for the things you could have done differently. Yeah, you could have overextended yourself to cater to your WW when she clearly did not deserve it and the jury is out on whether it would have changed anything but no one with half a brain would ever fault you for it given everything else on your plate and how much support and love you gave her in every other way. If this hypothetical woman deserves forgiveness for not being super human in doing absolutely everything for her ungrateful, cheating husband, so do you.

You sound deluded. Look at what your life is and then hers. Are you a masochist? It’s unbalanced, my friend.

@AHGuy, you wife knew who you were for a long time. This doesn't mean that you (or anyone) can't do better in certain parts of a relationship, but who and how you are was no surprise to her.

The reason she is falling all over herself to keep you now, is because, as I believe Thumos and others have said, you were actually providing above and beyond what most husbands do, from a life security and household operations standpoint.

I've seen many a very emotionally involved husband who wasn't worth a damn as a provider or a partner in household activities.

And you know what? Their wives appeared to resent what they didn't provide that you do. Words like "lazy" and "lack of ambition".

***

Your wife tried the classic "trade-up" that so many men are accused of (and do), but she found out just what those trade-up men generally learn: that the life she was trying to trade up to with the sleazebag was foul, degrading to her, and completely illusory.

The men trying to trade up are usually just a resource of types for the women who are willing to step in the place of the wife, and that is what your wife was for the sleazebag: A resource for sex.

So stop worrying about what you weren't - she now wants to cling to what you are. And know that what you are is good enough.

***

And definitely try to improve yourself!

Introspection is the key to personal improvement and evolution.

I just wonder if your wife can truly appreciate, and frankly, if she deserves the new and evolved AHGuy.

Okay I don't wonder - she doesn't - but that's your call buddy!

[This message edited by faithfulman at 6:22 PM, September 30th (Wednesday)]

I just wonder if your wife can truly appreciate, and frankly, if she deserves the new and evolved AHGuy.

Okay I don't wonder - she doesn't - but that's your call buddy!

That's probably the most bitter pill to swallow WRT betrayal and reconciliation. The lack of appreciation in the eyes of the one whose appreciation we crave most. Love and passion naturally ebb and flow in the course of any long relationship, but what we expect to constantly be there are respect and appreciation. Should AHGuy decide to reconcile with his wife, I hope he will find her true appreciation for the beautiful person he is.

AH

You are not wrong! You still love your wife and you are trying to explain to your self how she could and would do this to you. You are trying to figure out how you can live with this and not feel like you gave away every thing you are. Yes she was unsatisfied with you showing her love by acts of service instead of quality time or word of encouragement or what ever love language she uses most but that didn't give her the open door to steal from you and give to someone else what was yours alone. I know you know this and that you are trying to figure out how to build a bridge over this betrayal because the massive crater she has blown away in your heart and mind is something she can never repair. Yes she was used by the the POSOM psychopath that was all about using you both but she opened the door long before she met him. I too looked at my wife with pity and that helped me to get over the initial pain, but as time went on I felt really cheated. I finally started just trying to focus on what we had together and was in the place where I thought I was good till she selfishly wanted to go to the event were I was triggered by seeing him again. Thirty years later. You are not me and I hope you can let things go better than me. I too am bound by my word, so I believe you when you said you'll try to see if you can R. If you do move toward R, make sure you get all the truth if this is important to you. Just last week I cought my wife in another lie and I thought we were past this. And I'm just trying to get past the old mind games. So now I'm having trouble with thoughts of what else is she lying about. What she lied about is a small thing but the lie makes me feel open again. She again said she lied so as to not hurt me. Can you get to the place you won't ever hurt again from what she has done to you? I don't know. I thought I had and then she had a selfish moment I am back to trying to get back to normal again. Will your WW be there for you down the road if you need her to help you heal if the pain punches you ever again? Again I know there is a lot of reasons to stay but I think that most of the people here that R still make the choice everyday to stay. I could be wrong but I see the few friends I have that stayed vs the few that didn't and the ones with a new life seem like they are over the past better. I support you whatever you choose. Stay strong!

Yes she was used by the the POSOM psychopath that was all about using you both but she opened the door long before she met him.

this is a grown adult woman here, not a teenage naif lost in the woods. Let's give her a little credit as a middle-aged intelligent woman that she knew exactly what she was doing and exactly why she was doing it. It almost seems anti-feminist to me, this tendency to try to send WW's back to the fainting couch as poor victimized souls. They aren't. They see an opportunity, they want it, they think they can get away with it, and they do it knowing precisely what the risks are.

[This message edited by Thumos at 1:32 PM, September 30th (Wednesday)]

my typical working day starts at 5:00 in the morning,and ends around 4 in the afternoon. when I'm home I'm either doing yard work, organizing the shop or working on one of the vehicles. When I mow the grass I do it for 2 of my neighbors too. 90% of the times I cook dinner and do the dishes. weather permitting my favorite thing to do at night is burning logs in my outdoor fire pit. I'm obsessed with cleaning, so every weekend I just do a major cleaning that most people do couple of times a year, I do it twice a month. This where my lack of EQ comes from unfortunately it is genetic, I inherited this from my mom and her dad. I'm a copy image of my grandpa except grandma never cheated on him.

You're right. Getting all that done doesn't leave a whole lot of time in the day for emotional connection. I know you understand by now though that NOTHING you did (or didn't do) caused your WW to cheat. You can see in your above statement that the same behaviors didn't make your grandmother cheat. Cheating is ALWAYS about the cheater.

That said, clearly you're worried about this, maybe feeling like you were a bit disengaged from the relationship because of your lack of attentiveness? Let me ask you... how do you feel when things aren't getting done? Say, you have a couple of HVAC jobs which are keeping you from getting your home routine accomplished. Does it weigh on your mind? Does it make you feel anxious when these things are in disarray? Do you feel any sense of compulsiveness to keep order in your environment?

Not trying to diagnose you, of course. I couldn't even if I tried. But something about this behavior seems to be bothering you, despite the fact that keeping active is considered a really good quality in our society. Maybe it's worth spending some time in contemplation of how your daily activity affects your connection with other people? Is it compulsive? Avoidant? Is it a means to soothe anxiety?

Please don't misunderstand me though... when it comes to your WW's cheating, you are NOT responsible. You could have been Attila the Hun in that relationship, and if your WW's boundaries where what they should have been, she might have left, but she would never have cheated. Her boundaries, her relationship with her own core value system, those things are on her. So, she has to fix all that for herself. But if you are worried about the way you're connecting to people, I think that's a valid issue for you to work on. In the future, you're going to want to make those emotional connections for the sake of your own happiness, whether it's with your WW or with someone new.

...am I normal if I don't dwell on the fact that she had an affair? because I really don't anymore. I'm more concern about whether we are good to each other or not than what really happened.

I wouldn't say it's typical, but I wouldn't say it's abnormal either. You might be a little numbed out or you might just be a really pragmatic person. Either way, your reaction is your reaction and it WILL resolve itself in time. Just ride it out and see where it takes you. If you're really worried about it though, consider getting into IC and talking it over with someone.

You're doing fine. Really. I know it probably feels messy. It feels that way for most of us. But TIME is the game-changer because it changes our perspective, just like the leaf on the stream.

You are still in the shock stage, working toward the bargaining stage. You figure that the A itself is less important than the future. In a way you are right. What’s 2 years compared to a lifetime? A philosophy professor or math teacher could run the discussion and show you that it is mostly nothing to worry about in the scheme of things. After all, in 100 years, who is gonna care about the injustice inflicted by your wife.

But we are humans, not automatons. Soon, you will start to go past the numbness you feel now and start into the anger and grief stage, that will make your earlier reactions look tame in comparison.

You have a long way to go. So go easy on yourself. You found your balls on day 1, unlike many others so you are ahead of the game. Just know that there are stages, and you are early in the long trail of dealing with this. Feel whatever you feel. You will probably feel differently later, and then feel other things after that. Don’t assume you need to act on your emotions. You need to act on your own self interest, and you get there by spending time getting to know yourself and your needs.

Thumos

this is a grown adult woman here, not a teenage naif lost in the woods. Let's give her a little credit as a middle-aged intelligent woman that she knew exactly what she was doing and exactly why she was doing it. It almost seems anti-feminist to me, this tendency to try to send WW's back to the fainting couch as poor victimized souls. They aren't. They see an opportunity, they want it, they think they can get away with it, and they do it knowing precisely what the risks are.

I wasn't making ANY excuse for AH WW. Yes I agree she is 100% at falt for what she did to AH. She started going out with the girls, she stopped valuing AH, she got the tatoo on her own with no thought for how AH would feel about it, and he wasn't part of it. Yes she knew exactly what she was doing. If truth be known as AH has even talked like there would be even a chance to R I feel some sadness thinking another man gets a raw deal. BUT I support him what ever he chooses.

I just think what MountainGuy posted has some validity.

Her meeting this guy is literally like going rabbit hunting and running into a grizzly bear. POSOM isn’t some bored husband looking for a good time. This man is a predator. A sexual sociopath (if not an actual one). As far as starting and maintaining these ‘relationships’ go he has no remorse, no compassion, he will say or do anything for it because his self esteem is built on them. Look at how many women he had on the line in the last year or so? 5? 6 including his wife? This isn’t a fluke. This isn’t something he does for fun, or because he’s looking for a distraction. This is what he does. This is all he does. His entire sense of self worth is tied up in controlling and manipulating women. The money, the business, it’s his vehicle for meeting and exploiting women. His entire life is built around this. I guarantee you this man has never had an honest relationship in his life. He gets women, he uses them, and then moves on to the next one. He’s what 58? Odds are he’s been doing this his entire adult life, so 40 years or so. Almost as long as you and your wife have been alive.

And it’s not about the sex, it’s about the power, the control, the domination. You mention that he had a girl in a condo that he was paying the rent for. That’s not because he’s a nice guy, it’s to control her. Making her dependent on him is paramount to his ego and self esteem. Everything comes from him and she has to be grateful. This is why your wife got the contract from him, to make her grateful. This is why you got a contract, to make her more grateful. The whole thing with having you drive out to West Virginia? That was him flexing, not for you, and not even for your wife. I believe her when she says she didn’t know, because that made it so much better for him, a manipulation on a grand scale. It was solely for his own enjoyment. Having you drive her to him was a 100% ego trip for him and him alone. His comments to her afterwards were the same; incredibly funny to him, because she didn’t even know he had tricked her into humiliating her own husband. To him you were just a couple of country bumpkins that he could trick, and humiliate and the best part was that neither of you had any idea it was going on. It was all about him preening for the only person that matters to him; himself.

Again everything is for this purpose, to feed his ego. He uses money like a tool to get what he wants. Let’s both be honest, the sole reason your wife got the contract was because he wanted to sleep with her. That's when this really began. He went into this for the sole purpose of stalking and seducing your wife, it wasn’t because she was a good realtor, or was smart, or competent. He wanted her, and in his mind, he gets what he wants.

I’m not saying your wife is guiltless, she certainly isn’t. She admitted to you that when she got the tulip tattoo she wanted to open herself up to ‘opportunities’. I imagine she thought she’d try a fling. Again, she saw herself as a smart, sophisticated woman. She’d watched enough Sex in the City to know what was what. She had opened herself mentally to the idea of an affair, something small, just dipping a toe in and seeing how she liked the water. And then she met POSOM, like a teenager deciding to hitchhike down to the store and the first person that picks her up is a serial killer. A guy who has been playing love games since she was wearing diapers. 40+ years at this, how many other women do you think he’s tricked and manipulated? 100? 200? more?

Thumos I do agree she is guilty all on her own.

AH

I just want to support you, as we all do.

. If truth be known as AH has even talked like there would be even a chance to R I feel some sadness thinking another man gets a raw deal

This not to leave out all the women. Just as a man I have feel what a man feels. I came only know inmy head what a woman feels. Sorry if I hurt any one with this statement.

All the stuff Stillbleeding7 said

I think it could be instructive for all BS's (and hell, WS's too-- everyone) to read a book called "Influence" by Robert Cialdini.

The whole "it was only the WS's fault and nobody else's" refrain is very popular here and on other infidelity boards, but there do exist certain kinds of men (and maybe women-- though I'm not sure how it works from that gender direction) that literally understand how to hijack human instincts and behaviors for their own benefit.

There is even an affair example in the book, where he describes the trick players do where you get someone to cross boundaries, just do things that are a little stupid or a little uncomfortable, bit by bit, and they become locked into the behavior because the brain resists saying "I made a mistake."

There's human things we do, like "reciprocation" is a good example, where just the way our minds work, we feel response obligations. For instance, if you ever go into a sales office and they offer you coffee or something to eat, it's because after they offer you something, you will want to reciprocate-- making the sale more likely (by a huge statistical percentage).

This is what AH's wife's AP is doing with the woman in the condo-- she has to reciprocate now, or she'll think of herself as a bad person. She has free will, but she will have to quite literally defeat her own humanity to resist him.

People exist who know how to hijack these human traits and use them for their own profit. Politicians are big on it too.

Not every WS is victim of a predator like this, but some legitimately are.

For this reason, I always am somewhat supportive of the BS getting revenge on the AP-- for the predator types, the negative feedback would be the only thing preventing them from going after the next wife.

I am convinced that the existence of this biological hijacking is literally behind all the societal rules that we decided to give the ol' heave-ho post 60's.

(Edit) There's an example of such a case on reddit, called "My wife’s insane behavior and how it changed us." This was a manager that took over a department at a workplace and had so much influence over women under him that his previous affair partners would persuade new hires to become members of the manager's "harem." It's really remarkable stuff, and frankly terrifying.

[This message edited by Sunspot at 6:20 PM, September 30th (Wednesday)]

Persuasion is persuasion. If you don't actually coerce them on threats of violence or similar repercussions, the WS must be at least able to be persuaded.

A salesperson will never persuade me to buy a car I don't want. Likewise, a potential AP will only be able to close the sale if the WS is on some level receptive to the concept.

Some people are easier to persuade than others. Some have weaker willpower. Some are drawn to it. None of that excuses their decisions.

Like any environmental contributing factor, the AP's attractiveness and charisma play into the specific A. The decisions to go through with it, is 100% on the WS.

The "hallmark" of the people who fall under this persuasion umbrella is usually a very long "courting" period. A good example is Walloped's wife, where the AP worked her for almost a year before his win.

Good god. Comparing cheating to selling a person buying a vacuum.

Okay, let's do that!

You know how these women are persuaded? Because they are ripe to be persuaded. Just like the person who walks into the store looking to buy a vacuum is actually interested in buying a vacuum. They weren't sold a vacuum by accident.

The much-vaunted predator just finds someone who he thinks is open to his bullshit and lets it fly.

And the success rate is not high. Most women are not "persuaded".

You know why? Because they don't want to find someone outside of their marriage. The soil for infidelity is not fertile.

***

You know who nobody ever makes this kind of argument for? Men.

Because even if a woman is throwing her tail at a man trying to rope him in, which is a much stronger "persuasion" than all this mentalist bullshit being bandied about, it is still his fault if his he has sex with her when he is married.

I don't know why it's the men who push back on this type of stuff the most.

I would think women wouldn't like being portrayed as being this stupid, manipulatable and mentally inferior to a man, and would line up to shoot this nonsense down.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 7:54 PM, September 30th (Wednesday)]

I think the last two ^^^ are true.

One day at a time and hope the Covid test comes back clear.