SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Comparing cheating to selling a person buying a vacuum.

I believe you have missed the point.

The point is the primal hijack, which can be used for everything from selling an ice cream cone to getting someone to commit murder for you.

I don't know why it's the men who push back on this type of stuff the most

It's dumb to shut down conversations by pointing and screaming "sexism!!!!" like a pod person.

Men are easily hijacked too, do you think women wear makeup and high heels for fun? However this particular thread is about a female WW and a multiple-cheating AP.

For the discernment counseling, will this be secular or religious? A religious one, particularly in Baptist / evangelical circles like your wife’s, will push you HARD to stay married. They’ll try to convince you that it’s your duty to eat the s**t sandwich.

AH

I’m going to admit that I have mostly stayed off your threads because I saw such immense indecisiveness. I’m OK with people stating they want to reconcile and I’m OK with people stating they want to divorce. I’m even OK with people stating that they don’t know what to do.

What I don’t like is people stating they are working at divorce and then doing all the actions of reconciliation. Nor people that state they want to reconcile and do all the D work. I sort of think that if you commit to a path you need to focus on that path – with reasonable attention to your other options and always with a clear path and milestones to evaluate progress on.

If you want to reconcile then that’s your choice.

Plenty of posters here on SI that think it’s not possible. Some might grudgingly acknowledge that sometimes it just might theoretically be possible for some. Some will tell you that those that claim to have reconciled are simply weaned onto a diet of shit-sandwiches. Yet at the same time all those posters will be spewing their logic on this site, founded by a couple that reconciled. Basically enjoying the hospitality of a man they think feeds on shit-sandwiches.

So yes – R is possible.

Only it’s not easy, nor is there any guarantee whatsoever that it will ever be successful.

But then – there are plenty of people that claim to have divorced, yet years later they post about how their ex is marrying or meeting someone else or whatever. That’s not divorce. Or people that scream at you to divorce while hanging in some limbo that’s neither reconciliation nor divorce. Often justified with claims of not affording D or the present hell being best for the kids or waiting for their attorneys to place a value on the used mower to ensure they get exactly half it’s value. Basically, it’s like a parachutist hanging onto the plane yet claiming he plans to let go – even if the plane has already landed again.

What I’m going to suggest is that if you decide to D you commit to it.

What I’m going to suggest is that if you decide to R you commit to it.

That commitment – irrespective of decision – needs to be based on two things and two things only:

What YOU WANT

What YOU CAN GET

What the church-ladies, the pastor, posters here, the kids, her family, the man that sells newspapers or whatever wants has NO VALUE and NO WEIGHT.

They aren’t in your marriage. It’s YOUR marriage. At the end of the day when you sit and reflect on your life then the only factor that matters is that YOU are content and happy with what YOU did with your time. Not a shallow happiness like you might feel after watching Everybody Loves Raymond, but the happiness of knowing you did the best you could in your life.

It’s ONLY what you want. That is the ONLY factor.

Controlled IMMENSELY by what you can get.

If your wife is willing to completely cut off the AP, all enablers, be truthful, accept her total blame… you have a shot. You can reconcile and it’s something you can get.

But there is immense truth in what is shared on this site. It will only happen if your wife can and will accept ALL the blame for the affair. I don’t agree with the persuasive salesman and therefore she couldn’t avoid it crap. Your wife has to raise her hand and in front of herself and you admit that SHE decided to allow an affair to happen. That might not be necessary to START R, but definitely within the first six months.

AH – I’m not too optimistic for you. What is apparent is that you and WW have established a really strange form of interaction. Your communications are way off. There might be a lot of verbal noise, but it sounds like there isn’t much listening and a lot of confrontation. With a marriage as old as yours then changing that interaction will be hard. If you start to R then things will be all nice and fine and warm and cuddly until you both start using the old interaction methods.

IF you want to reconcile then you need to do immense work on the communications. Generally we don’t recommend MC early on in reconciliation, but I think that for YOU and YOUR situation you both need to see an MC with the emphasis on changing your interactions and learning new communications skills.

And AH – The marriage is her and you. Not the pastor, the friends from church and all that group. It’s not Jesus and Mary or the Big G. It’s you and your wife. I am a Christian and try to live by the principles Jesus taught us. I think that the BIG question we will be asked eventually is if we lived our lives to the fullest. Once again: a productive good fullest rather than a shallow fullest. I think remaining bound in a loveless marriage with no mutual respect simply to make some other people happy is not what was intended for us – not matter what the Lords self-proclaimed representatives here on Earth claim.

Just like you can try to reconcile if you want to do so you should feel equally free to decide to divorce if reconciliation isn’t working.

I believe you have missed the point.

The point is the primal hijack, which can be used for everything from selling an ice cream cone to getting someone to commit murder for you.

No, I have not missed anything. You have missed your mark by contriving a scenario in which a grown woman was somehow made to do something she didn't want to - that is what "hijacked" means.

A "Hijack" would indicate no desire or volition of the party allegedly being hijacked to engage in the given activity.

My car was "hijacked" by robbers - meaning I was not open to it, looking for it, wondering about it (for years beforehand), and willing to be "hijacked" over and over again.

It's dumb to shut down conversations by pointing and screaming "sexism!!!!" like a pod person.

What's dumb is your theory. I don't know what your "pod person" reference is, but it is probably just some more misapplied mumbo-jumbo.

I didn't yell "sexism". I merely pointed out that nobody ever tries to paint a picture of silly excuses for men the and how they were manipulated into cheating the way so many have repeatedly done for a woman as on this thread.

And what is completely missing from your absurd theory, is the FACT that AHGuy's wife was pulling away from her marriage FOR YEARS prior to cheating with her "Hijacker".

She was acting like a single woman much of the time, even going so far as to etch permanent symbols on her body that symbolized eliminating AHGuy from her life.

Men are easily hijacked too, do you think women wear makeup and high heels for fun?

I think I already pointed out that a woman making herself available to a man is a very strong temptation.

A "temptation". Not a "hijack".

People are responsible for the decisions they make.

***

Now I will help you understand the terminology which you are misusing: a "hijack" is when somebody has seized/stolen something from or compelled somebody to do something by force or threat.

Giving a woman some business then making moves on her which she gladly engages in is not a hijack, it's just a play on somebody who was ready and willing to be part of the action.

However this particular thread is about a female WW and a multiple-cheating AP.

Wrong again.

It's about helping a man who has been betrayed by his wife so he can achieve an outcome where he can recover from betrayal and continue on to a happy and fulfilling life.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 8:40 AM, October 1st (Thursday)]

Hi A.H. How are you?

You really need the full truth, otherwise this will come back to haunt you.

Your WW lacks accountability, shows disrespect and appears to be patronising you.

She needs to give you the whole truth about the 3 years prior to the affair, that you know about. She doesn’t have the right to dictate/control the narrative.

You don’t know what you are dealing with.

I think she has really taken you for granted.

Take care A.H and God bless you and your children.

Cheers from Downunder.

A "temptation". Not a "hijack".

People are responsible for the decisions they make

Temptation is as common as breathing and waking up in the morning. It is the foundation of successful marketing.You start making choices the moment your feet hit the floor: what to eat for breakfast, what car to buy next week, what opinions to express, what political position to take - the choices made are always with considerations of the temptations presented and the influence of outside forces. If you are making decisions to fill a broken piece within you, it is on you, not the car advertiser or the guy at the bar.

AH's wife did not fall prey to buying a vacuum needlessly, the better analog would be, she secretly took a 2nd mortgage on their home and used the 100k on a Ferrai, then signed the title to it over to her lover. It wasn't a hijack, it was a conscious series of choices that she knew would sabotage her husband's future, to her benefit and to his enduring difficulties.

I have had women come on to me, and inappropriately flirted with. There's no question that that behavior is looking for something. I could have taken the bait and run with it to satisfy some void or need in me. Would that have made them predators?

[This message edited by DIFM at 7:52 AM, October 1st, 2020 (Thursday)]

Temptation is as common as breathing and waking up in the morning. It is the foundation of successful marketing.You start making choices the moment your feet hit the floor: what to eat for breakfast, what car to buy next week, what opinions to express, what political position to take - the choices made are always with considerations of the temptations presented and the influence of outside forces. If you are making decisions to fill a broken piece within you, it is on you, not the car advertiser or the guy at the bar.

AH's wife did not fall prey to buying a vacuum needlessly, the better analog would be, she secretly took a 2nd mortgage on their home and used the 100k on a Ferrai, then signed the title to it over to her lover. It wasn't a hijack, it was a conscious series of choices that she knew would sabotage her husband's future, to her benefit and to his enduring difficulties.

I think we agree. Maybe your analogy is better. I don't always have the time or energy to craft a perfect analogy.

I have had women come on to me, and inappropriately flirted with. There's no question that that behavior is looking for something. I could have taken the bait and run with it to satisfy some void or need in me. Would that have made them predators?

The answer is it doesn't matter if they are predators or not. You're not an antelope being hunted and taken down by a leopard.

You have a choice whether or not to accept the advances of someone coming on to you. As did AHGuy's wife, as does anyone.

A word of caution for you, AH. I believe you said the OBS and POSOM were separated and possibly divorcing. In that scenario, I believe it is highly likely that Moneybags McDouche will try to reestablish contact with one of his APs, potentially your WW. Whatever else he is, we know the guy is a charmer, and wouldn't have too much trouble explaining away the things he said to your WW in their last conversation. You may very well get to see if the newfound boundaries your WW professes to have are in fact real.

I have a brother-in-law that is just like him, let's call him Bob. Bob's not a predator/hijacker/superstud - just an asshole that needs constant ego-stroking. The serial adultery wasn't about control. It was all about "winning" and soothing whatever self-esteem issues lurk beneath the brash, arrogant personality. Bob's wife eventually had enough and took him to the cleaners in their divorce. So, he nuked his own family in his quest to "win", but still managed to see himself as some sort of victim. Didn't stop him from continuing to try to bed every woman he met. On the outside, Bob appeared to be a catch - wealthy, confident and charming - the women were all eager for a chance to be the next Mrs. Bob, even the married ones looking to trade up. No predation necessary.

Bob eventually married his last AP, though she is likely not really the "last". She was no catch, but both of them were early 50s and quickly running out of options. Bob was a senior VP for a corporation that is a household name worldwide. All of his VP buddies came to the beach wedding, and every one of them (all married) brought their mistresses. Seeing this bizarre display of shallow fakery was eye-opening and more than a bit sad. Bob is now a bit older than your WW's POSOM. His children are grown and see him for what he really is. His new wife is intent of keeping him drunk so she can spend every last dime. Oh, and the drinking? Bob is smart enough to see his life in ruins, but can't fathom that it was his own doing. Or maybe he can, but his ego won't allow him to admit it. I doubt many of us have much sympathy for the Bobs of the world, and I sure don't. I do get a ringside seat to the consequences of Bob's choices - estranged family, not invited to his younger brother's wedding, implosion of his career, never even meeting his grade-school age nieces, just an endless path of destruction.

[This message edited by MyShovel at 10:55 AM, October 1st (Thursday)]

AH,

To give you an idea of who really I'm, I will give you some examples. my typical working day starts at 5:00 in the morning,and ends around 4 in the afternoon. when I'm home I'm either doing yard work, organizing the shop or working on one of the vehicles. When I mow the grass I do it for 2 of my neighbors too. 90% of the times I cook dinner and do the dishes. weather permitting my favorite thing to do at night is burning logs in my outdoor fire pit

Sounds to me like your love language is acts of service to your WW, family and friends.

Agreed. And WW is looking for quality time. Hence her bitching to om about AH fixing parents sink while on vacation with them.

So query? My impression is that you are probably 75% NC. This has got to feel like the worst form of punishment. How is that working out?

If he knew how to fix the sink, I’d think it would be terrible for him not to do it. Honestly, loads of women would love to have a husband who does everything that AH does.

If he knew how to fix the sink, I’d think it would be terrible for him not to do it. Honestly, loads of women would love to have a husband who does everything that AH does.

Not even an amen, but helll yesss to this. I suck at plumbing, I never enter into a plumbing task with any enthusiasm. I would love to be that competent and easygoing about that kind of skill. You're right, lots of woman would love that. It's just a practical form of "love language" that shows how much you care.

The sink thing is just normal BS from a Wayward. If AH hadn't fixed the sink she would have said he showed he didn't care about her family. When a WS gets into this mode they are looking for something to justify what they are doing. My WW did the same kind of thing. It is a game that you cannot win as a BS.

The sink thing is just normal BS from a Wayward. If AH hadn't fixed the sink she would have said he showed he didn't care about her family. When a WS gets into this mode they are looking for something to justify what they are doing.

This ^^^^^^

Re: the sink thing.

She was looking for anything to use as a reason to justify her "drifting away". If it wasn't that it would be AH left his muddy shoes on the porch step, or didn't get to putting the dishes in the sink fast enough after he cooked supper. If you are looking with the right mindset you can find reason to take offence for just breathing and justify anything.

The sink thing is just normal BS from a Wayward. If AH hadn't fixed the sink she would have said he showed he didn't care about her family. When a WS gets into this mode they are looking for something to justify what they are doing.

How true. Got this type of Bull crap from XSO on so many occasions!!

The last time you were here you were being tested. Please say you are ok. How are the sons?

The last time you were here you were being tested. Please say you are ok. How are the sons?

Sorry I have been extremely busy, We are COVID free thanks for asking, But I'm way behind in my work obligations I only have 2 guys working for me now, That's another problem that I gotta deal with.

I got my negative result Friday mid day and I have been running non stop since. I was invited to a ' celebration" cookout Sunday at my in laws that was the only time I got to relax. My WW and had a brief talk where I informed her that I will be giving her my list of "must do" things in order to consider the possibility of R, she didn't have anything on her list or can't thing of anything at that moment.

with that being said I can take suggestions from you if you are willing to assist. Polygraph is one of them for sure.

I’m going to admit that I have mostly stayed off your threads because I saw such immense indecisiveness. I’m OK with people stating they want to reconcile and I’m OK with people stating they want to divorce. I’m even OK with people stating that they don’t know what to do.

What I don’t like is people stating they are working at divorce and then doing all the actions of reconciliation. Nor people that state they want to reconcile and do all the D work. I sort of think that if you commit to a path you need to focus on that path – with reasonable attention to your other options and always with a clear path and milestones to evaluate progress on.

Bigger, I hear you loud and clear. I wish i was able to be firm on my decision, but I'm who I'm and can't be somebody else. I just decided to not let my feelings have anything to do with my decisions and keep myself open to all possibilities. anyways i still need my 6 months separation to file for divorce if i wanted to go that route.

I would definitely decide on your bare minimum must haves. But I wonder, does she really lack so much that she can’t provide you a list first?

To me that’s critical.

I’ve been down this route of “telling” a WW all the things they must do. It didn’t work out very well for me. Mainly because it dawned on me that my WW wasn’t pulling her own weight.

EDIT TO ADD: so by the time I actually got a timeline, she enrolled herself in an IC, started taking me seriously, stopped bullshitting me so much and then begrudgingly did the polygraph (which she failed) I realized I was with someone who just didn’t “get it” at a fundamental level. I checked out. The intense cognitive dissonance of being with someone like that and realizing you’re done but still trying to play the “man of honor” role is so draining it’s basically death-dealing. I landed in a cardiologist’s office because of that. You can drag this thing out like I did, or cut thru the Gordian knot with a clean blow. Your choice.

One thing you will realize if you do gingerly outline everything for her, try to be reasonable and keep repeating yourself over and over is that you are doing most of the work, and she couldn’t put a fraction of mental and emotional and physical energy into the marriage as she did on being unfaithful to you.

I wasted four years with that silly game. My WW knew I wanted a timeline. It just wasn’t that important to her. She knew I wanted a polygraph. But she wasn’t going to do it until I scheduled it and even then made sure it was as painful and dramatic and ridiculous as she could.

Your WW is clearly no dummy. She was able to be very creative and daring and energetic maintaining a second passionate sexual relationship outside the marriage for two years. She did all sorts of things before that you really know nothing about.

If she can’t muster the brain power and imagination and work to do it herself and you’re having to tell her, well what does one conclude about that?

You already know how I feel about a polygraph as do others. It’s your best arrow in your quiver right now and you know what questions to ask. One of them should be “have you been unfaithful in any way with anyone else during our marriage?”

[This message edited by Thumos at 3:00 PM, October 5th (Monday)]