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I just don't think my wife gets it. Hopefully after she reads the book in a few hours she will have a better idea. I really think she has spent 0 time looking up what I am going through and what she can/should be doing. The whole thing just sucks and is super hurtful. I really don't get it. Just divorce me if she wanted to sleep with someone else. It would hurt but I wouldn't have to think about if she's committed or not...

It's not that she doesn't get it, it's that she doesn't CARE. She may not get it, but it's because she doesn't care enough about you to even try to see your perspective. Selfishness, as all affairs are selfish,plain and simple. You can't fix her, only she can ,and it appears she doesn't have the slightest intent to do any of the work, and you are so co-dependent you are letting her get away with it.

Now that things are calming down I want to use the opportunity to explain a couple of tools we BS can use after d-day.

They are both used to reach what I believe is necessary to reach the point where it becomes clear to you whether reconciliation or divorce is your path. By default – if you were already committed to D - then neither tool is really necessary for you.

They are both based on a couple of thing most of us think need to be in place before reconciliation is possible: The affair is over (and you the BS are assured it’s over) and the truth is known.

The first tool is exposure:

Exposure is possibly the very best tool you have to kill the affair. It’s also possibly the most misunderstood tool. Exposure is never vindictive, angry or mean. It’s not done for revenge. It’s done to create conditions that are conductive to your WS realizing what they are doing, the consequences and the extent of the pain and damage they are causing. These conditions usually lead to one of two conclusions: The affair ends and the WS commits to the marriage (about 8/10 cases) OR the affair stops being an affair and tries to live in the daylight (2/10).

The former is the key to reconciliation. The latter at least gives you a clear picture of where YOU are and allows you to move on. Both options are immensely better than remaining in infidelity.

How to expose is key. Like I have said it’s not revenge nor vindictive. IMHO you need to expose in a relatively honest and humble way. For example; If you were to decide to expose to your friends you might say something like:

“Friends. WW is having an affair with [Name of OM], her boss at work. As you can imagine this is devastating our marriage. I refuse to remain in a marriage that’s in infidelity but if my WW would commit to saving our marriage it’s my belief that we should try. I think you guys deserve to know as our friends and people that I believe care about our well-being. I would really appreciate any help you could give our marriage to survive. Honestly I would also be OK with advice that made my wife commit to either the OM or me, as long as it gets us out of infidelity either as a couple or as individuals. I ask that you remember she is my wife and I expect you to show me and her the respect and dignity our friendship demands.”

Exposing to the HR department:

“It has been brought to my attention that my wife, [name of wife] is in a personal and sexual relationship with [Name of OM]. This relationship was initiated and maintained at work. OM is WW direct superior and I have reason to believe he has used his position to initiate and continue this relationship. I have been advised that this might even constitute sexual harassment. I doubt this is in accordance with accepted business practices and HR policy of [name of company]. I believe this needs to be brought to your attention so the company can react to this situation and ensure my wife is no longer subjected to OM leadership in any way or form and can continue her work without interaction with him. I expect to hear of your response and reserve the right to further purchase this issue through legal means.”

Basically exposure should be based up on what the issue is, why you are asking for help and how you want the person to react. Never in an angry, vindictive way.

Then you let the cards fall. If your friends tell you that you were a crappy husband and encourage WW to go with OM… So be it.

If HR fires wife and tells you to sue away… So be it.

But chances are the vast majority will kindly guide your WW to the correct path. Chances are she no longer will think she’s fooling anyone when she and OM have a “Sales-forecasting meeting” for 2 hours off-site. She will feel the social pressure of the affair and – if she’s really committed to the marriage – she will start doing things to ensure the outside pressure is assured the affair is over.

Will exposure make reconciliation harder? Will it make it harder for you two to interact with those that know of the affair?

Well… No to the former and yes to the latter.

Exposure is like applying a heart-fibulator. You might have to tear the buttons off a shirt to apply the fibulator and it might even leave slight burn-marks. But it gets the heart to pump again. Applying it might be the reason the person survives. The person is left with a wrecked shirt and burn-marks but that’s small change compared to the other option.

Exposure makes reconciliation possible. It makes it possible to determine the future of the affair and therefore the future of reconciliation. R is possible without it – but will take immensely longer and AT LEAST diminishes the chances of success by 2/3.

Then the polygraph…

Right now IMHO a poly wouldn’t do much good. It would only confirm what we know already and that is that you don’t have the truth.

IMHO it’s imperative that she commits to the truth. IMHO it’s also more-or-less inevitable that she will miss something out that when divulged in the future might be a major issue for you. It’s important that you realize right now that the truth will hurt and try to “quantify” what’s really important and what not.

For example: If she were to tell you the affair started 9 months ago then MAYBE realizing some months from now that it’s really 9 months and 1 week wouldn’t be major. But realizing it’s been going on for 12 months would be major.

I suggest you make it clear to her that you can’t reconcile until you have a sense of knowing what you are dealing with. Suggest an amnesty: NOTHING she can tell you now will make you file. You will accept the truth and work with it and commit to at least 4 weeks of working on the marriage. But you need the truth. Either she can write it down, you can do a list of questions, or you can commit to sitting in the room while she tells you everything (with no interruptions).

Where the poly comes in good is when she assures you she’s told the truth. That’s where you get a polygrapher to ask some questions based on the TRUTH she told. If she passes… then YOU have to accept the truth as it is. If she fails…

Alright. Thanks for the new posts. It was a fun weekend and good to get out of the house and see friends. My wife finished "how to help" and told me it was a good book and really helped her understand what I am going through. She told me she is committed to R and wants to do everything she can for me so we can try to get back what we had.

We spoke a lot and I asked her a lot of questions about her affair. The beginnings of it started shortly after she was moved her boss. It started with flirting and whatnot and escalated to sex the night on their first business trip. She is very much adamant that, that was the only time they had sex. The flirting continued from there up until she told me about the sex.

They kissed those 3 other times and it sounds like they were "interested in getting to know each other better." I asked her if they ever saw each other outside of work things and she said he went to yoga with her a few times.

We spoke a lot about how this whole thing made her feel and whatnot. She said it felt fun and exciting and daring to "break the rules."

She gave me some info on his moving her to a different manager and how it sounds like it would be a realignment, yada yada so I told her that wasn't nearly good enough and that I am not just going to wait 6 months for this to happen. I told her I am going to write a letter to HR today and she can give it to them tomorrow or I'm done. This all happened before she read the book so I'm curious to see how she reacts after I give her the letter today. She didn't look happy about it before but I told her if the roles were reversed or if she didn't work for the guy, she would want no contact at all and would have no problem breaking off contact with someone not at work. She agreed and I reminded her that it is entirely her fault for this being difficult because of work. I also told her that I don't care at all if she gets fired or if he gets fired and maybe those are the consequences of their actions.

I told her I want to sit down tonight as well and write a timeline down of how everything transpired so the holes in the story are filled in. I asked her how she could go from sex to kissing and flirting and she said she wasn't sure, just that she never wanted to have sex with him after that.

It is very strange but sounds like it started as a PA and turned into more of an EA after.

It is very strange but sounds like it started as a PA and turned into more of an EA after.

That is very unusual. An EA on whose part, hers, his or both? If she did this just for the excitement of doing something wrong, than there is no way this turned into an EA, that is a contradiction.

She writes out the timeline, you do not. She sits down and writes out the timeline on her own.

Your wife now understands how you feel, how could she not understand before.

Okay, so she understands now, than now, she can agree to a polygraph, to make you feel at ease and trust her again.

Perhaps EA is the wrong description? I guess I meant the whole thing about them getting to know each other better seems more than just ONS even if they did only sleep together once. And yeah. She did no research or anything to see how this could potentially affect me. I'm sure she knew I would be upset but this is much more than that and she didn't know or care to until I showed her the book. Words are just that until they turn into actions. I'm hoping the actions start soon. I'll let her write the time line though. Good idea.

I think your biggest issue right now is your desperation to save this.

You need to work on yourself and be comfortable with the idea of being on your own and not so afraid of change first before you decide that R is in your best interest. Many BS's knee-jerk to R right away because of the shock and fear of change then after the dust settles end up regretting it.

If R is to be successful, she has to earn it from you and you can't make it easy. She stabbed you in the back, you don't reward her for that.

Still a contradiction, if she did this just for the excitement, getting to know him better doesn't make sense. Staying at that beach house drunk doesn't ring true either.

I really think you need to thing about what you said.

It is very strange but sounds like it started as a PA and turned into more of an EA after.

There should be bells going off. If it sounds strange then its probably not true.

She has casually gone into this for the excitement. Had sex once, she then wanted to get to know him better. Why? Spent the night but no sex. None of this makes any sense.

I understand that you want to fix this, but can you really trust your gut on this and say everything is fine and I can believe all this is totally true? even though it sounds strange to you?

I am afraid you are going to keep getting hurt. This is all so casual to her. Does she even really believe she has done anything wrong or is she just telling you what you want to here so you will forget about it and move on?

Face it, you want it to all be ok. You want it fixed so it will go away. She is telling you a strange story that you are willing to accept because then every thing can be ok... You are in the perfect position to grab a broom and lift the rug.

This really isn't about what you want to hear, it is about the truth and your mental and emotional health. Can you truly live with the reality of this along with the feeling that there is just something strange about how this went. If you had a friend who brought you this story about him and his wife. Would you tell him that it all sounds right?

Look at this situation from the outside, like its is happening to your best friend, and see what we are seeing. Now how comfortable are you with her story?

I cant strongly enough suggest you yourself contact the HR department.

Do so by phone, followed by an email in the format I gave you.

No warning, no telling your wife. It’s just something that’s done.

There are numerous reasons:

-There is no doubt the message has been passed.

-You fully control the content.

-A third party (you) bring the matter to the attention of HR. It makes HR action more likely to be careful towards your wife (fear of litigation) and more directed towards OM.

-You become relevant in the processing of the complaint. You have a stronger stance to get info on what’s going on.

-You are not forcing your wife to do it. There is no way HR, OM or WW can say that she was forced to hand over a letter.

You mentioned OM has a girlfriend. Have you informed this girlfriend of the affair yet?

people who know have kept telling you to contact hr yourself. you really should listen!

Oh desertmirage,

The letter will never make it to HR.

She still see's him as a friend and not a threat to the marriage.

She is still in contact with him daily.

She is lying about the extra kisses (it was sex). Seriously think and trust your gut.

Does this sound normal process?

Flirting, which she accepted

Sex, which she made the choice

Kissing, which she continued

Flirting, which she continued accepting

With the desire to get to know each other better???

And no other times did they have sex in these months. No other times did they take it to far?

Polygraph after the timeline...

You are minimizing this so you can justify saving your marriage at all costs. Not good path to follow.

[This message edited by sneaker at 11:45 AM, September 26th (Monday)]

You are minimizing this so you can justify saving your marriage at all costs.

The sad thing is that even if the affair had been going on for longer, if they had had sex a dozen times, even if your WW had turned tricks at the local Marines barracks… The marriage is still salvageable.

We have prominent and respected posters here on SI – both male and female – that have reconciled marriages from extremely dire situations. But they have done so from a position of power and action.

Your marriage IS salvageable but ONLY if you have the truth and assurance the affair is over. Right now you probably have neither and the key tool that should end the affair is being misused. Yes, there has been progress but it’s still only as fast as she thinks she can get away with.

I’m a relatively big guy. I still bench over 200 in my reps and can be intimidating. That’s maybe why I only say “strongly suggest” when I want people to follow my advice. When I say “strongly suggest” I’m basically saying you better follow that advice or else…

^^^^^^^^ THIS 100000%

@Bigger, great follow up...

[This message edited by sneaker at 12:23 PM, September 26th (Monday)]

So we went through the time line tonight. The only things that were added were that she really didn't want to have sex with him again but the night they kissed she was super drunk and on her period so if she wasn't she may have. She didn't though the other thing she added was that on one of the nights they kissed, he beat off as he kissed her (again no sex but kinda weird and gross).

She agreed to a poly if I wanted saying it's all there so if I need verification that's fine. Seemed like a productive night.

I don't think you're getting the full story. I think she is very classically trickle truthing you. Ask yourself if it makes sense that he masterbated while kissing her and nothing else happened.

Have her take the polygraph. Schedule it tomorrow and let her know she has 1 more chance to tell the truth. Let her know that if she fails, it may be a deal breaker for you.

But you have to mean that. If you aren't willing to leave this marrriage, she is going to continue to walk all over you. That's really the bottom line here.

One more thing: if you aren't already in great shape, get in great shape immediately. I don't think anything will help you more. 10 minutes a day is all you need to start. Do pushups one day, pull ups the next. If you can run, bike, or hike a couple times a week, that would also help you.

[This message edited by Mark6 at 10:17 PM, September 26th (Monday)]

My Friend, This is the 2nd time she has cheated on you that you KNOW of. You don't really know the depth of her cheating ways. My question to you is why make all this effort? Why go through all of this poly, timeline and so forth? You have no kids and are still young and can find someone who understands what boundaries mean and respects you. My advice to you is to seriously consider divorcing her. Please check this out:http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html

These talks "kissed, but only once; get undressed, but kept my panties" remind me a good classification of shit. However, light or dark, solid or soft – shit is shit. In other words, I wouldn't focus too much on details.

[This message edited by wordsofwisdom at 10:24 PM, September 26th (Monday)]

I really am sorry you are here. I just wanted to say that from my own experience when a story sounds implausible it's usually because it's a lie. Trickle Truth is emotional abuse plain and simple and it follows a predictable pattern and serves a predictable purpose. It is always to minimise and to make what they did not so bad. They pretty much always try to lie about the duration and how many times. They will try to make themselves seem less of the active participant - as though they had no control and 'it just happened' to them. Seriously, they are so fucking predictable it's pathetic.

I have heard it all before in my own case, and like you I wanted so much to believe her lies. The truth was crushing. When there are so many holes and inconsistencies that ignoring them makes you feel a fool - then it's time to see them for what they are rather than what you wished.