SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

sorry, duplicate post

[This message edited by Sadielost at 6:27 AM, September 27th (Tuesday)]

It’s positive that she’s accepted the polygraph.

However – the poly is sort of an ultimatum. It’s not a tool to discover new truths but rather a tool to verify that what she has said to-date is true. The consequences of failing and of passing need to be clear to both of you.

YOU have to be prepared to accept that what the poly indicates/confirms is correct. If she fails, you need to accept she failed and not start doubting the poly at that time. Same if she passes. If she passes you have to settle into accepting, you know what the poly confirmed. It’s best you are both aware of what the results will lead to.

I have seen way too many cases here on SI where the BS is still unclear after several tests. You don’t want to be in that situation. Plus – if you repeat the poly enough times chances increase for a false result.

The real issue is that you need the truth. It’s important that she understands that need and understands that in order for the marriage to become the BEST marriage possible then it’s inevitable that you know all the truth. It’s also important for both of you to fully understand that any truth told now will cause less damage than something told later.

Get that? If she told you NOW about OM#2 or that she and Boss-man had sex twice a day for a month it would damage your chances of reconciliation LESS than discovering a year from now that OM had given her some cheap ear-rings.

She has to be clear that the cost of telling the truth is significantly less than the cost of hiding the truth. I strongly suggest (once again… strongly) you make this clear to her and make her feel safe in that whatever she tells you now you will still give R your priority. Tell her that failing the polygraph will cause a lot more damage to your willingness to reconcile than any truth shared now.

It can be beneficial to make it clear that whatever marriage rebuilt from these wrecks will be a new marriage and that you want THAT marriage to be the best marriage ever. Honestly if you don’t have that goal in mind then I wouldn’t bother reconciling…

When I hear stories about what happened I try to put them on a believability or probability scale.

I have to say that her descriptions of what happened score low on either scale. It’s like things have been turned around: From full sex to more restrained acts.

Plus, each time you pick at her story you uncover more facts…

Like how nothing happened to kissing to him masturbating while kissing… So maybe she was on her period but honestly and totally brutally… I wouldn’t be surprised if she helped him in some way.

There is another option though… IF she’s telling the truth then it sounds like OM pressured her into sex after the first time (let’s be clear – masturbation while kissing your wife is sex). Once again emphasizing the necessity of YOU contacting HR.

Plus – What do you think OM told the other boss? How can he flog off his staff-member to a colleague? I’m guessing that the other boss – like probably a third of the company – already know of the affair. I’m in management. If a colleague asked me to take a person on my team and I KNEW the reason was an inappropriate relationship I would inform HR simply because not doing so could seriously impact my career. If the other boss doesn’t do that then your wife has simply moved from one wolf to another, only now the OM can safely pursue her because it won’t impact his position in the company. His friend can easily ensure OM and your wife attend the same conferences, meetings and so on.

Thanks. I spoke to her about it a lot last night and made it extremely clear that any and all details need to be revealed. This is when she came out with him masturbating this time it was because I told her I wanted everything. I asked her about the beach house and she told me he didn't leave, that no one else was there and that they didn't have sex. She said she was indeed black out drunk so couldn't confirm that nothing happened (him masturbating again) but that she didn't have sex with him.

She told me she is completely on board with it if I am and that she's fine with the polygraph if the helps me since she told me everything. I told her if it comes back negative I'm done. She seemed confident it wouldn't. I haven't made the appointment yet. I asked her a bunch of times why the relationship is backwards in terms of what they did and she said it wasn't a real relationship and it was fucked up. He did try to pressure her into more sex but for some reason she didn't want to. I guess on the kissing nights this is what happened.

[This message edited by desertmirage at 9:01 AM, September 27th (Tuesday)]

She agreed to a poly if I wanted saying it's all there so if I need verification that's fine. Seemed like a productive night.

She has offered this - do it. Do not believe that just because she offered it that she is telling the truth. I can't count the amount of "parking lot" confessions we have heard about on here.

Read Bigger's post a few times. (great writer, great advice)

Anyway, think about it like this...if she passes the poly you will have a much better chance of starting over because you will be able to trust what she has said.

Very few of us believe her story and I believe you will be questioning it again and again. Passing a poly will shorten you pain and make reconciliation much easier on you.

Call around and let her know to take off of work on... day for the ploy. Again, I would go over the things Bigger suggested prior to taking the test.

Yea, I'm going to. I think it will be freeing for both of us honestly. I won't have to think about it any more in terms of lying vs not telling the truth and she can prove she isn't lying.

Follow through with the polygraph test. Many waywards spouses will say they will take a polygraph, because they're telling the truth. Many don't believe that you will actually follow through with it. Follow through with it.

Are you going to tell his girlfriend about the affair? She has as much right to the truth as you do. And right now all three of you the OM, your wife , and you, are all making choices to keep this from her. You are helping him keep a secret. It's not fair, and it's not right.

Thanks. I spoke to her about it a lot last night and made it extremely clear that any and all details need to be revealed. This is when she came out with him masturbating this time it was because I told her I wanted everything. I asked her about the beach house and she told me he didn't leave, that no one else was there and that they didn't have sex. She said she was indeed black out drunk so couldn't confirm that nothing happened (him masturbating again) but that she didn't have sex with him.

More trickle truth, and that will continue. She continues to reveal more and more truths to you.

Did this OM masturbate in front of her? If so, she just sat there and did nothing.

She really lied about the beach house. Now they were there all alone and nothing happened, impossible to believe.

The stuff about black out drunk might be true, considering it sounds like she has a serious alcohol problem.

But most likely, she has not told you much of the entire truth.

Desertmirage…

I have been torn on the following and not sure if I should post it. I fear that you might grab it and see it as an excuse or justification for your WW affair. It’s not.

The more you share, the more your wife tells you… the more I see exploitation and the OM misusing his position of power.

The more imperative that YOU contact HR.

Let’s get this out of the way first: No matter how the OM pressured or convinced your wife to cheat it won’t alleviate her blame. Her decision (and YES it was a decision) will ALWAYS be her fault. If the OM didn’t apply direct threats or physical force and rape your wife then this is, will always be and is nothing less than infidelity. What I post here is not an excuse in any way or form for her actions and decision.

But IF she’s telling the truth (and yes it is possible) then it sounds like after the first encounter she didn’t want the affair or at least had doubts about it. OM pressures her and her ability to avoid situations is less because OM is her superior.

Her inaction. Her inability to tell you. Her seeking OM company despite what happened. Her [possibly true] reluctance to take a more active part in further sexual events… All these can be seen as common responses from people in an emotionally imbalanced or even emotionally violent relationship. [As can be seen when abused women go back to the abuser]

With no intention of revenge, with no intention of harming OM… BUT WITH FULL INTENTION OF HELPING YOUR WIFE… Contact HR.

Yeah I think more details like the masturbation and whatnot are going to come out. She was making out with him while he did it and he was touching her, is what she told me. There is a big difference to me about kissing and making out heavily while he jacks off. I didn't ask if they were clothed or not, but I am just going to assume no/various stages of undress.

He does not have a girlfriend. He had, had one while he was having the affair with my wife, but they have since broken up (apparently not to do with this affair but it sounds like this isn't his first rodeo).

I need to work up a bunch of questions for the poly. Mind if I run them by you guys when I get a list together? Just want to make sure I don't miss anything.

That they have broken up, is irrelevant. She still deserves to know that she was cheated on. And she certainly needs to know that she should be tested for STDs.

Yeah I think more details like the masturbation and whatnot are going to come out. She was making out with him while he did it and he was touching her, is what she told me. There is a big difference to me about kissing and making out heavily while he jacks off. I didn't ask if they were clothed or not, but I am just going to assume no/various stages of undress.

I think that is heavy TT, and just the tip of the iceberg. This just doesn't right for two sexually experienced adults.

So was this before the first time of sex or after?

As for a list of questions, make them out and print them for your wife to answer.

I think a polygraph only allows a small number of yes or no questions.

Your wife being blacked out drunk...could mean a couple of things. She did have sex but does not remember that, or he could have had sex with her while she was passed out, which is rape.

Either way, your wife continues to put herself in sexually situations while drinking and drunk. Not to mention this is her boss.

YOU are the one that needs to contact HR, not your wife. You are the one that needs to take control of this now. Your wife is still talking to this guy every day, no way you can trust her at this point with any words or actions.

[This message edited by craig2001 at 10:17 AM, September 27th (Tuesday)]

Thanks Bigger, I am not letting her off the hook for this at all. I agree, she made some bad decisions. It does sound like she didn't want it after the first time (not sure why she continued to kiss and see him and she doesn't know either) but it sounds like he did pressure a bit. I don't think he ever threatened her but it's definitely bad.

Confused, sorry, I misunderstood about his girlfriend. I have no idea who this person is or where they live. She should know, more for the STD. I'll ask my wife if she knows who that woman is.

Craig, this happened after they had sex. The sex was first, then followed by this on their second business trip. That was followed by kissing and holding hands, and ended with the kissing and whatnot at the beach house. The beach house one I'm not sure if we'll ever know what happened since my wife was black out drunk (agreed, she has a problem). I do believe the black out part since she never texted me to tell me she was okay. If she was cheating on me normally, I would think she would just lie about who she was with and say she wasn't coming home til super late. The whole not responding for hours is not normal and does nothing to hide cheating.

Edit: I don't think she was raped or anything. Her reasoning for not having sex was that she was on her period and didn't have another tampon with her. If he raped her, she would know because of the tampon. She didn't want to have sex with him again but she said that because of how drunk she was she very well may have if not for the tampon thing. She doesn't know if they did more than just kiss though. I do want to believe her because this came after she told me about the masturbating, but who knows.

[This message edited by desertmirage at 10:27 AM, September 27th (Tuesday)]

Craig, this happened after they had sex. The sex was first, then followed by this on their second business trip. That was followed by kissing and holding hands, and ended with the kissing and whatnot at the beach house.

I am sort of confused. They had sex one time, this sex was intercourse?

And the masturbating thing came after?

And then kissing and holding hands.

Does your wife have a packet from work about right and wrongs, did she have to go to any mandatory HR meeting about sex abuse at work when she started.

I guess at this point, the threat of polygraph might or might not work, the threat of divorce might work if she doesn't stop with the damn trickle truth.

Has she written out a timeline yet.

Craig,

Yes. Sex the one time as intercourse. This was the first. Then the masturbating and then the kissing/holding hands. I'm sure she had/has both. The issue is that her company was recently acquired and she hasn't gotten the packet from the acquirer. We spoke about this last night. She is very scared of losing her job if she reports. I really do want to speak to a counselor before telling HR (I'm sorry guys, I know you all know but this is all so far from where I am at the moment). I agree and she agrees that she is in a terrible spot but this is entirely her fault. I told her that I don't care if she loses her job over it, I just want it done.

She wrote out her timeline last night for me. The affair pieces revolve around work trips/functions except for him doing yoga with her. It is pretty clear and the parts in between the affair pieces were flirting and hugs at the office.

[This message edited by desertmirage at 10:42 AM, September 27th (Tuesday)]

I‘m not implying she was raped. That’s a key factor in my theory.

I’m a former cop and as a cop I specialized in first-response to domestic violence and sexual crimes. One thing that I always remember from those days was how often women would seek validation from the men that mistreated them and even how they didn’t recognize the abuse they suffered.

I’m not suggesting your wife was physically pressured or assaulted by the OM. She HAD all the ability to prevent the sex taking place (albeit see my footnote) the first time. But maybe he pressed, and pressed, and pressed… and she gave way. Then afterwards she’s seeking that validation… Shes trying to make OM a nice man, one that was OK to fall for. Or trying to establish a friendly, non-sexual relationship (therefore refusing direct sex). Whatever. In any case I think it’s just one more MAJOR reason you really really need to talk to HR.

I can’t stress the importance of that single act hard enough.

Footnote: Didn’t the first time (the sex) take place at a conference while drunk? Then your WW blacks out from alcohol for the beach house? Is alcohol a problem for her? Does she have a pattern of blacking out?

And yet another footnote: Even on her period and missing a tampon she can have sexual encounters with the OM. Ranging from vaginal sex, oral, anal…

Bigger, well put. She does not black out when she's with me. We both will drink heavily from time to time at a party or with friends but never black out. I honestly have never thought alcohol was a problem for her (we have a glass or two of wine/beer with dinner on a normal basis). There seems to be a pattern of her drinking a lot with these things though. At my friend's wedding, when she kissed the guy at the bar, she was very very drunk as well.

I'll ask her about oral etc (would be shocked if they had anal) that night but it really sounds like she doesn't know/remember. Like I said, she was too drunk to even write me back that she wasn't abducted and was okay.

Yes, I understand the HR piece and how he pressured. I don't think his pressure was anything like "I'm your boss, do this thing" but there was definitely pressure there, and continued to be despite her not wanting sex (not sure how much she was leading him on with kissing/masturbation/hand holding/hugs/etc).

[This message edited by desertmirage at 10:53 AM, September 27th (Tuesday)]

Gawd almighty….

LOOSE HER JOB???????!!!!!!!

In the BEST of conditions reconciliation is HARD. It’s like running the NY marathon wearing a suit of armor.

With her and OM working in the same company in comparable departments with her new boss knowing of the affair and a good part of her colleagues too (do you REALLY think they don’t know?) reconciliation will be like running the NY marathon wearing a suit of armor, carrying a grand-piano, pulling an elephant on a leash and doing it on your hands going backwards. Theoretically possible but probably doomed right from the get-go.

Follow my advice and YOU notify HR and it’s HIGHLY UNLIKELY they will fire her because it opens a serious and VERY LIKELY case of sexual harassment. The likely reactions are (listed in order):

1) No response, but OM will be given an informal warning and your wife will be relocated. Since the warning is there OM will keep his dick in his pants.

2) OM will be given a formal warning and moved.

3) OM will be fired.

4) WW will be given a golden handshake and you two will have funds while she gets a new job. People tend to change jobs all the time. A lot more frequently than they change spouses.

5) WW will be fired. This happens and you file.

Let me be very clear on this:

Clear?

I got it. I told her this as well. She has always wanted to move somewhere new for a bit, so she is going to start looking for another job within her company is what she told me. I am not thrilled with it but if we move, I can see that being okay. She keeps saying that she won't be able to stay at her company if she tells HR since it will forever be in her file. I don't think that is true (I know it will be in her file forever, but I don't think they will hold it against her, since this guy has a file with HR already about making sexual innuendos towards another of his subordinates).