SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I've not much to add other than we don't see too many waywards volunteer a confession w/o having been caught. I say that's a plus for reconciliation. It doesn't necessarily mean you got the whole truth...but she did tell you on her own...despite being (stupidly) advised not to by her therapist.

I don't need or want the sex details from her but I do want to know how many times etc. I feel like if she had just come clean totally I would feel better than the trickling of shit, if that's what it is. I just emailed a couple counselors.

Desert, understand it will take YEARS to move through this mess. Not weeks or months but YEARS.

Also understand that cheaters lie, deny, minimize, manipulate, blameshift, and gaslight.

Ask her to take a polygraph.

I asked her if she had feelings for her boss, "I don't know",

First of all that is a damn lie, tell your wife you are fed up with her nonsense answers. She obviously knows if she has feelings for the other guy.

Call this guy and ask him how many times they have been together, do not tell your wife you are going to call him.

I haven't done any more checking in her stuff. I don't want to invade her privacy (stupid, I know).

That is not only stupid it is dangerous to your future, if you do not snoop, if you do not get the whole truth, you will never ever know what is happening in your wife.

Where did you think your wife was all night long?

They didn't sleep together that night, WWs have a way of lying around the truth, notice she did not say they did not have sex that might.

Your wife needs to quit this job today, and this company allows her to get Unemployment without any problems.

Is this company a big company.

She also gets rid of this therapist today, he recommends lying, get rid of this person and out of your life. If it were me, I would call this therapist myself and ask where the hell they get off recommending lying.

Yes keep asking...

ALSO tell your wife if she keeps lying, you need her to take a polygraph test, she how she reacts to that.

Does this boss know that you now know?

I want to add, that your wife has a history of affairs now and alcohol seems to be involved. She should quit drinking right now, at least while out and about without you.

Since she works with the OM still, you have no idea what they do at lunch even, does she work late?

[This message edited by craig2001 at 10:55 AM, September 21st (Wednesday)]

I had a deep desire to know every detail. It's just how my brain works. But I prepared myself and it help shut off my vivid imagination and mind movies. You can control what you want to know but she has to know to answer each question truthfully and without hesitation. Talk to her tell her this is what you need to know how many times, how long, when did it start, how did it start.

Also tell her you don't want to know how small his penis is, how he is a coward and sneaks around. How he preys on the weak for his own selfish gains by running into an insane asylum and bragging about how many drug induced coma victims he banged.

Seriously he is trash and line him up against you a 10000 women would pick you 100% of the time with the truth of your morals and the truth of his lack of boundaries and asshat behavior. You are the prize!!

But don't tell her you are on this site, this is your safe place you don't want her to know where to come and snoop on your healing and sharing so she can use it against you.

Okay, i'm out. Have to get back to real life. Hope I helped some.

[This message edited by sneaker at 11:04 AM, September 21st (Wednesday)]

She told him, she told me. She does work late some times, and I told her she needs to call me to let me know when she is. At least she'll have to lie to me when she does. I didn't know where she was that night. I honestly thought she had been abducted. I was an hour away from calling the police to let them know she was missing. She works for a big company that is all over the country. She could switch positions and we could move away somewhere.

Thanks, sneaker. I told her I found a couple of online places but gave her no specifics. I think I am in denial, and thinking that my wife is different. I need to comes to terms with it takes two to tango and they are both scummy terrible people.

Who tells you what the therapist thinks and says? Is it your wife or do you hear directly from the therapist?

I sort of agree with those that suggest she dump the therapist. Heck… if the therapist suggested she not tell you and YET she decided to ignore that advice and tell you… then she’s spending big bucks on someone she already selectively choses to ignore. That money would probably be better spent on someone that she’s willing to listen to and follow.

OK – Start with a couple of things:

This is serious trauma you are dealing with. It does require that you take action, but it also demands that you have the strength and energy to do so. Start by making sure YOU are capable of that. Not eating? Get some sports protein- and energy drinks. Not sleeping? Ask your doctor for mild sleeping aids. Feeling stressed? Take an hours walk to clear your mind.

There are some positives in your situation, although “positives” in infidelity is like realizing you were stabbed with a clean knife rather than a rusty one.

The main “positive” IMHO is that your wife came on her own will and confessed. This does indicate a conscience and that the affair troubled her. It indicates that she realizes it was wrong and that she wants the marriage. This is undeniably positive.

Then there are some tactical positives. Your wife won’t get into trouble with HR because firing her because of an affair with her boss will open up the company to a MAJOR harassment case. Her boss however will be in trouble for having sex with a subordinate. Even if the company has no policy on these matters it’s ALWAYS seen in a negative light if a supervisor has a personal, non-professional relationship with a subordinate. I can’t strongly enough suggest you notify HR. Do so with a phone-call to the manager of HR and follow that call up with an e-mail synopsis of what went on in that call. The e-mail is critical. Once there is a traceable and verifiable notification that the company knows of the affair their ability to fire WW is extremely limited.

Don’t for a minute think the affair is some big secret at the company. If this happened at a business event, if she went out with colleagues and she and Mr. Boss made out… It’s well known at the office. This is something you should make clear to her. Her colleagues know about the affair.

One thing that you need to make clear (and be clear on):

The conditions in your marriage did NOT make her cheat.

The conditions might create a situation where she could demand change. She might have threatened separation or divorce. But she could NEVER justify infidelity. Your marriage did NOT make her cheat.

Whenever I hear a WS explain how a bad marriage “made them” cheat… I hear how people justify the strangest things. I hear the rapist explain how the victim wanted it rough. I hear the burglar explain how since insurance would pay for what he stole so there really wasn’t any victim. I hear the DUI explain how he HAD to get home (I’m a former cop). Basically I hear people trying to justify their actions because frankly and honestly admitting you were 100% wrong is tough.

Be clear on this: You or your marriage did NOTHING that made her cheat. Therefore, no change in your marriage without change in HER can prevent a repeat.

Look – I think you have a perfectly recoverable situation. If that’s what you want.

I do however think it requires action on your part. This is how I would suggest you go ahead:

Realize that there are worse things than losing your wife. This is NOT the same as wanting to lose your wife or wanting out of the marriage. Imagine a day three months from now: What would be a worse situation to be in if compared to where you are today? I suggest that realizing three months from now that she’s STILL having an affair would be worse. That would probably be worse than her leaving today to be with OM enabling you to move on. If she did that then three months from now you would be in the early stages of acceptance and recovery. You would be moving out of infidelity.

Sharing her is immensely worse than losing her. Having her in infidelity is worse than losing her.

With this in mind then I suggest you create the conditions conductive to making her clearly chose the marriage over the affair.

Tell her she’s free to be with OM. She can keep her job, work with OM, go on trips, sleep on strange couches… whatever… BUT NOT AS YOUR WIFE.

If she wants the marriage – if she wants to be your wife – then she has to commit to that and do so fully. That means creating a situation where you feel safe about her and OM.

What that situation is isn’t clear. It might require she change job. It might require she relocate within the company. It might require she makes a major career change. But it definitely requires changes.

One thing you should request is the total and absolute truth. If you can then make her feel safe about telling you the truth. I think whatever she tells you today won’t hurt as much or do as much damage as some small fact you discover after half a year. Suggest an amnesty: ask her to write down (or tell you verbally) all you need to know and how to verify it. Make it clear that even if she tells you they had sex ten times over a year then you are willing to listen and not do anything rash.

I know we are suggesting a lot of action. We are telling you “you need to do THIS and you need to do THAT”. Take what you want, but IMHO this isn’t something that will simply go away. What happens next time she needs to work on a Saturday? How will you feel next time she needs to take a trip? Ignoring infidelity never heals it. The only way forward IMHO is determining a course out of infidelity, creating what is needed to enable both of you to follow that course and then plodding on.

Hi. I'm sorry you're faced with this, but it's great you found this site. You'll get lots of advice here, mostly good, take what you want and don't be scared away from this site by the rest. The advice you've received thus far is very good.

Having said that, here's some of my advice&questions, some already mentioned:

1. Go see a GOOD lawyer IMMEDIATELY! Don't let her know you've been to see one. Just so you know your options and that you'll be acting from a position of knowledge of your legal situation.

2. Go buy a VAR (voice activated recorder) or a GoPro thingy immediately and use it to record all your interactions with her. She might try to falsely accuse you of domestic violence to the police. Better safe than sorry, and there have been betrayed husbands here who were hit with false DV charges. I know you probably think she wouldn't do that, but considering her cheating you don't know her as well as you did. As all of us who were betrayed thought we knew our partners. Furthermore, if possible, ask a friend to stay with you for a while under some false pretext, to act as a witness against her false allegations.

3. Start documenting your and her care for the kids, if you have them, immediately. I recommend you be as detailed as possible, and I recommend you send the details of the day every day to a good friend of yours or to an alternate e-mail account so you will have time-stamped proof in case of a custody battle. You hopefully won't needed, but if you do, it's better you have it. Don't let her know you're doing this. Once you'll see concrete progress in her actions and reconciliation, you can start stopping the documenting.

4. Set up individual counselling for yourself IMMEDIATELY! You need professional help in dealing with this level of betrayal&shock. Find someone with experience in infidelity and/or PTSD. That was paramount in bearing the pain and healing myself. This is a great thread on selecting a good IC - http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=544948 . Also, read up on EMDR therapy - http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=571247 .

5. Go see your doctor about STD testing. Be aware that if you have sex with her, you risk getting an STD and/or getting her pregnant.

6. C(ontinue to c)onfide in your friends&family about this. You need and deserve their support. Have you told any of them yet of her cheating?

7. Find out the identity of the other men, if there were any. Make sure you check if the boss has a gf/wfie by yourself, don't rely on your ww to tell you the turth. If they have wives/gfs, they deserve to know, just as you deserved to know. Don't trust the other men or your wife that they've been told. Check out this - http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=576398&AP=1&HL= .

8. Make sure you eat, sleep and exercise as much as possible. If you're having trouble, talk to your doctor or a pharmacist. DO NOT DRINK ALCOHOL. It's way too easy to spiral out of control. I stopped myself quite close to becoming an alcoholic in the aftermath of it all.

9. Google "No more mr. nice guy pdf", it's a great book available online for free that might be a source of great strength and self-esteem for you, as it was for me. Also, google "Codependent no more pdf", also available online for free. Another great book to read on this topic is "Married man sex life primer", I'd recommend you go to the library and get a copy of it, but that's more suitable for later on and can wait.

10. Go to the "I can relate" subforum here and check out the "Betrayed menz" thread on the first page. Read and post there, it's a great place for betrayed men.

11. If you are giving her another chance, she needs to go to IC at least for a month before you two even consider MC together. I recommend YOU find a good IC for HER (not the current one that suggested not telling you), one that you will know has a no-nonsense approach to infidelity (knows that cheating is 100% cheater's fault,...) and go to her first session with her to make sure the counsellor knows all about the cheating. Only after that should you try MC with her.

12. Google "How to help your spouse heal linda macdonald pdf", it's a great book available online for free that might help you two tremendously. Read it on your own at first. The best book for me on infidelity is "Not just friends", look it up in the library.

13. What was her and your childhood/youth like? Please, google "Toxic parents pdf", it's a great book available online for free. Also, check out "Families and how to survive them" in your library, it opened my eyes on the topic of childhood issues and how they connect to adult relationships.

14. I think it's important that you tell her that as a condition for you to attempt to reconcile with her is for her to write you a detailed timeline of the affair(s). Upon telling her, notify her you'll want her to undertake a polygraph test afterwards to ascertain you have the full truth. Tell her that lying will do more damage than any truth will.

15. A phrase that I've heard a lot here and with which I agree is that you must be willing to lose the marriage(relationship) to save it. You mustn't think of her as the prize and you mustn't approach this from a position of weakness, of you trying to win her back by being nice etc. You must get therapy, you must get into the mindset that you will be ok even if you divorce and that you will not settle for rugsweeping or anything less than her being fully remorseful and committed to redeeming herself and helping you heal.

16. If she continues to have contact with him despite you demanding she stops, and if you'll want to stop the cheating, or if she'll continue to be unremorseful, EXPOSE HER CHEATING to her friends&family and/or SERVE HER WITH DIVORCE PAPERS. Remember, even if you serve her, you can always stop the divorce later if she proves remorseful etc. But it's a good wake-up call for the cheater that very often works.

17. A divorce would be hard on you and, if you have (I couldn't see from your posts) kids. When it comes to them, it is, however, much better for the kids to not see you everyday if that means that they won't grow up in a toxic household due to their mom's cheating, disrespect,..., where their dad is being destroyed emotionally due to their mom's actions. What the kids need to grow up emotionally happy, mature and strong young adults is to have at least a part of their lives emotionally healthy and safe (i.e. the days they will spend with you), to have at least one parent (i.e. you) emotionally stable and healthy (and you can't be that if you remain with a cheating, unremorseful spouse) and to have access to a good children's therapist (it's up to you to get them to see a good therapist). Please, consult a good therapist for kids to hear his/her opinion before you decide to stay married to her because of the kids.

18. You DON'T HAVE TO DECIDE RIGHT NOW whether to give her another chance or not, whether to reconcile. That decision can wait for quite some time (but make sure waiting to make the decision doesn't hurt you legally, financially, physically/health-wise,... -> talk to your lawyer etc.). Remember, even if you start the divorce proceedings, you can stop them. And even if you finish the divorce proceedings, you can still reconcile with her despite divorcing her. If she's truly remorseful, she will be desperate to get you back even if you divorce her. And if she'll be willing to stay without you despite the divorce, it will be a good sign she's doing that not because she wants the financial,..., security of the marriage, but because of you. So again, no need to make quick decision.

Also, like others have said, it's a roller-coaster, being cheated on. It's one of the most shocking and traumatic things you'll ever experience in life. It is perfectly understandble to be dazed and confused from all this, to not know what exactly to do, to feel one thing one moment and another the next moment. As time goes by and you work on healing yourself, things will get considerably better.

What's crucial is that you don't make any really bad decisions in this first stage of being totally mentally fuc-ed up, like getting her pregnant, getting an STD, you cheating on her with someone else and thereby demeaning yourself, you becoming an alocoholic, crashing a car, beating him up and ending in jail etc.

19. Also, check out these two threads, I try to read them regularly - http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=568211&AP=21&HL= and http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=514479&AP=1&HL= .

20. Most of all, keep talking to us, the more you talk to us, the more we can help you and support you!

Best wishes

Gently, we all thought our spouse was "different", a special snowflake, if you will. They're not. Stick around. Keep reading. It is uncanny how similar cheaters are. It is as if they read from the same (fictional) "Cheater's Handbook".

I am afraid you are getting the tip of the iceburg.

She told him, she told me. She does work late some times, and I told her she needs to call me to let me know when she is. At least she'll have to lie to me when she does. I didn't know where she was that night. I honestly thought she had been abducted. I was an hour away from calling the police to let them know she was missing. She works for a big company that is all over the country. She could switch positions and we could move away somewhere.

The first time my wife disappeared all night, I did call the police. She came back with some sorry excuse she was driving around all night thinking. Later to admit she was in a motel with the OM.

What excuse did your wife give you when she came home the next morning?

Does she get an hourly wage? If so, her OT working late had better show up on the paycheck. If direct deposit, you tell her to get a printout.

I don't think she can work there any longer really, unless your are fine with it.

As for invading her privacy, she LOST her right to any privacy. And really, there should not be privacy like this in a decent marriage. What does she have to hide. You gave her privacy so she could have affairs, nope, she lost her right to any privacy.

[This message edited by craig2001 at 12:13 PM, September 21st (Wednesday)]

Yes, you are and so was I..

Until you see that your wife always had these deep seeded issues with her self worth, self esteem, and self image that allowed her to commit this horrible act of betrayal and viciously ripping out the one person she promised to love and honor for her entire life heart you will be in denial.

I am here again because your wife and mine have similar issues with needing the attention and validation from outside themselves and from other men. They needed it to fill the void left inside from the low self worth, low self image, low self esteem issues.

So here is a shot from the hip of what your wife is like and you are going through.. Again a shot from the hip and in the dark.

1. She has always felt low about herself and covered it up to appear okay on the outside. Maybe even co dependent on others at time, shy around groups, unsure of her own ideas or choices, never wanting to make a decision for fear of looking bad. Or any combination off these traits in any form.

2. She has always needed other people to be friends or think highly of her, a people pleaser... Avoiding conflict even at the cost of her own body or families well being (cheated).

3. She got a new boss who is an asshat fucker who has no care in the world and will test boundaries of everyone seeking out the week (running into the insane asylum) to see what he can get to boost his lack of self worth, self esteem issues, and self image problems. They will exchange all kinds of worthless ego kibbles back and forth "your great, no your great" "your attractive, no your attractive" until they are hooked and need this daily or they feel lacking and worthless because it is empty and meaningless (fantasyland).

4. He probably gave her special treatment (come in late, leave early, long lunch, etc..) this is making her feel special (also the sexual harassment part) or important. Then he invites her over to be a part of the group and she doesn't want to feel like an outsider and feels obligated to keep the ego kibbles flowing. All the while you have no idea and think all she is doing is going to work and coming home to you. Her secret life began a long time ago.

5. He pushes she folds they have sex or he breaks down the barriers even farther. She keeps it secret and this only validates he needs to conquer this trophy and she is weak and won't speak up. He pounces on this business trip if it was even a business trip have you confirmed this? Maybe she was in a long term relationship with him and wanted to move to his unit to be closer together and the business trip was a pleasure trip in disguise.. You need the whole story!!! See how important the truth is. You can't heal from something if you don't know what it is your healing from!

6. Something clicked maybe she sees regret or maybe she saw him for the rainbow unicorn farting fairy dust kind of asshat this guy was and now is trapped in the hell hole she created. And in panic mode trying to get back to her normal broken self. Maybe another employee saw the special treatment and flirting and was going to out her to you that is why she came clean. You need the truth.

Don't rug sweep it because those emotional holes are there and will resurface unless she gets fixed and becomes a safe partner. I rug swept the first affair it cost me 2 more later till I caught it again..

She is salary. I called the police too to see if she had been in an accident or was arrested. I didn't report her missing but was almost at that point. She had been out with coworkers that evening so she said she drank too much and instead of letting her drive she went back do the dude's beach house, they kissed and he left to go home. She stayed with his out of town friends. That's the tale at least.

It was a business trip. She goes on them fairly frequently and has been. She has to travel for work. It was her first time in this new position so it's customary for the boss to take you down. Her previous position her boss did the same. I agree with a lot of your assessment. She is shy in groups and is very much a people pleaser. I don't think he offered her anything (she is very very good at her job and works super hard so if she needs to leave early or anything like that her bosses are always very open to it). I asked her if he was as big of a fuck head as he seemed and she said no, so idk what that means either.

Whether OM is a real asshole or not isn‘t really relevant. He could be a great guy for all it matters.

What is relevant is:

1) They are still in contact. That’s like an alcoholic working at a bar.

2) She still has positive feelings towards him.

3) Even if she was 100% totally committed to the marriage and ending the affair her daily work and her need to travel for work make it impossible for YOU to feel safe.

4) She blames the marriage for the reasons she decided to have an affair.

5) The total truth is not known.

6) The company management is not aware of the supervisor having a relationship with his employee.

My wife told me her other men were great family men, great guys, friends, there for her, kind to others and etc... Wow, could she have been farther from the truth!! She used this as a justification you know fucking a good guys is so much better than fucking a asshole right????!! You don't look as bad right? She has to see them for who they really are and who she really is. Read the book "Not Just Friends" by Dr. Glass..... Justifications and minimizations are terrible coping mechanisms..

The truth was, she gravitated to these asshats because they preyed on her lack of self worth, self esteem, and self image. And they took her "in to the group" where the other nice guys you know the other married men who payed more attention to their wives and families "ignored her or just didn't get her" OMG they were the nice guys with morals and boundaries they were kind and valued their families more is this what made them mean??? come on ass backwards. Think separating from the herd type mentality for a predator. But she CHOOSE to allow it she CHOOSE to accept it! Broken and needs fixed.

And yes my wife was and still is a highly educated hard dedicated worker who I am proud of but the broken parts inside she still needed someone (asshats) to come in and say good job see "I KNEW YOU COULD DO IT",,

Okay I really have to go now.. really.. sorry just fired up today for some reason..

[This message edited by sneaker at 11:53 AM, September 21st (Wednesday)]

No problem, I understand. I found out where OM lives last night when I couldn't sleep. Lol, not like I am gonna do anything but there it is, me finding out where he lives...

so she said she drank too much and instead of letting her drive she went back do the dude's beach house, they kissed and he left to go home. She stayed with his out of town friends. That's the tale at least.

Tell her fine, but she needs to take a polygraph, in my opinion she is lying about much.

Makes you wonder how many times she has "just kisses" other guys while on trips and drunk.

You say she has to travel for her job, not anymore. How are you going to feel the next time she travels.

Tell HR, they both might get fired, but the boss should be.

What about the next boss.

Your wife needs therapy, she seemingly continues to get drunk and have affairs, and I am guessing she has had more than you now know, so be ready.

I asked her if he was as big of a fuck head as he seemed and she said no, so idk what that means either.

Your wife is sure big with the IDK answers, which is a common sign of liars.

So this guy is an outstanding wonderful guy having sex with married women and employees.

Great guy. If your wife cannot see him for what he is, there will be total resentment on your part in the future.

Polygraph!

I think I still believe she is being honest with me since she came out with this. I think I would be fine with her traveling but who knows, maybe it will drive me nuts. She has a scheduled work travel for a couple weeks from now so I guess I'll know for sure. She normally travels alone so that's good, but I have no way of knowing for sure except that's what she tells me. I really adore her, if you can't tell, and I used to be quite proud of her. I think I keep giving her the benefit of the doubt and that, I can't do.

Do you have complete access to her phone and passwords?

She normally travels alone, who knows who she meets at the other end. I just find her stories to be too vague and that always means withholding the truth.

Ask her to take a polygraph and see how she reacts.

The problem is that she has had numerous encounters with other guys, she obviously doesn't understand boundaries and traveling alone gives her the chance to play around.

How do you know her boss is not going with her?

[This message edited by craig2001 at 1:01 PM, September 21st (Wednesday)]