SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You are very thoughtful and thorough in your approach.

To me it would come down to this: I do not believe in an open 3 way marriage. She obviously is in love with him. Doesn't mean she doesn't care for you too, but not as a lover. I don't see any path toward ending her feelings for him except pushing her toward him.

File the D papers and move forward with the D. Unfortunately you will have to be the adult here and do it.

If at some point she realizes he is the true POS that he is, whether it's before or after D is finalized, and you have a truly remorseful WW in front of you (see my definition of remorseful in my post above), then maybe you can work on R if you can stomach it.

Only one path forward though as I see it.

Take care

[This message edited by Stevesn at 4:01 PM, July 5th (Wednesday)]

Stop all contact with her, except for the kids and the D.

She is being faithful to the OM. she has been having sex with him and not you.

She is not R material.

This is at least the second A that you know about.

Did she get tested for stds?

She and the OM are at war with you. go ahead and expose to her family.

Full speed ahead with the D.

So you do not love her; you settled because she was the best partner you came across over the time of your dating years. Do you really think she does not know this? Her decision to cheat is all on her. But how do you think she feels being unloved? I am not for one second justifying what she did, but it seems from your own admission that she was alone in love in your marriage. Is that true?

ODonna,

Our relationship was not good for a long time. We should have worked on it, as we did love each other. To clarify my point above, I don't really believe in fate or "the one" and that at some point you love the person that you are with enough that you don't want to give it up for the potential of loving someone else more. Hopefully we all set a high threshold when making that decision. However, I thought that we were both depressed due to the situation with our youngest daughter and that neither of us had the courage to talk to the other. I hoped that there would be a catalyst to bring us back together. I did not realize that we were no longer a partnership and that she was more interested in investing energy into her A instead of work on our marriage.

[This message edited by NotYetConvinced at 9:34 AM, July 6th (Thursday)]

I am going to be blunt.

I too lived with my H during the affair fog. It is brutal.

He claimed the A was over but he went running back to her the second she called him.

So I coming from a place of experience and that is my post to you.

You need to do the 180 - read up on it here on SI.

You have a vague commitment to R. Yes I did that too during the A fog. And I thought we were successful and moving past the A. He was basically "trying me out" for 6 months. The ego boost of two women who wanted him was intoxicating to him.

So my advice is stop letting her call the shots. She is not in charge. She is a known liar and cheater.

She is a serial cheater as this is not her first A.

Start protecting yourself now. I sorry to be blunt but you need to read the handwriting on the wall. Her ACTIONS speak volumes. Ignore her words.

All roads lead to the words serial cheater regarding your W

[This message edited by The1stWife at 6:52 PM, July 5th (Wednesday)]

At the point my therapist agreed we were soon to be divorced he stated that you want to know you did everything you could to save the M and you will have very little regrets.

I think you have done more than most peoe woukd given your situation.

If you do D then you should feel that you gave it your best.

1stWife, thank you for that. I have reached out to a couple of ICs but have yet to see one. Also, I found out that OMs last day at work is supposed to be this Friday. Maybe between him being gone from work and seeing an IC about my guilt, I'll give it another week or two and see if anything changes.

With regards to the 180, I'm confused up to which point it is supposed to be used. Assuming that WW comes to the table and genuinely wants R, it seems like I should drop the pretense and work on mending our partnership?

NotYetConvinced: I am so sorry you are here.

I really understand everything you're saying. I was in your same position some years ago. I wanted so desperately to find a way to R when I knew in my heart D was the only possibility.

Your WW is just like mine was. There's no real remorse. No real feeling for the M or you (or me). She's just going to scratch and claw and hold on for dear life in the hope that you don't really pull the trigger on D. She probably thinks she's all that, just like my now very very XWW.

You haven't thrown in the towel. She has. You were a faithful H.

You've gotten a mountain of terrific advice here. I hope you'll read it carefully and consider following it. You really deserve so much better than a serial cheating WW. I know I did.

Sending you strength. You have our support.

Here's the thing, NotYet, the OM could be anyone. She has had multiple As. Until she gives you full transparency, shows real remorse, and commits to R and improving your sex life, you will be back here in no time. It's very clear that she does not want D but she also won't be giving you what you need to R. The OM being out of the picture is only part of the recipe for success.

I am so sorry you find yourself here. She doesn't sound remorseful yet. Hopefully NC will happen and help if you are seeking any chance at R. She should be willing to be transparent. If not, why? She has abused her privacy. She should be willing to give that up to make you comfortable.

I think counseling is imprtant either way personally. It is a huge trauma to the M and to your emotions. My heart goes out to you and your daughters.

The only thing I found personally interesting is your urging to D for financial reasons I'm not so sure M isn't bigger than that in my world.

Nekonamida, you are right. It was clear talking to her tonight that the A could likely continue after he leaves the job. While it would be harder to conceal, love will find a way.

Jesus, we pay +$10k per year in taxes for the right to be legally married. Most of the legal benefits of marriage can be had through other means. With the extra savings of being legally single, but still partners, we could live more fulfilling lives together.

[This message edited by NotYetConvinced at 12:17 PM, July 6th (Thursday)]

I knew that WW had had a group meeting in which OM participated yesterday and this morning she admitted to spending more time afterwards talking with him one on one. I tried to explain to my WW that this breach of NC is not inconsequential and that she continues to not be in the right mind frame for R. I also get the suspicion that, even though she's been pretty direct when I ask her questions about the A, that I'm getting TT about yesterday's events. I noticed this morning in the laundry that she had worn a thong to work yesterday.

I will insist tonight that she call in sick to work tomorrow, so that it interrupts her ideal of what their last day together will be like. I'm not even sure if she'll do it voluntarily or if it will require a fight, an ultimatum, and them me ultimately threatening to expose her to her friends/family. And is still all seems futile and that I'm just giving this a little more time before giving up. At least I'll feel a little disrespected as we continue to live under the same roof for the next couple of weeks.

This OM and where he works is not the problem. Your wife is your problem. He could be anyone, and has been anyone, and will be anyone. Yes, they need NC, but that alone is not he solution to your problem. Your wife needs to get out of the fog and be willing to do the work to change, or there will be another OM coming along shortly.

I'm so sorry for what you are going through. Read some other threads here - there's a lot to be learned from other's mistakes and what other BSs have done right.

Take care of yourself.

I'm going to echo what a lot of people are saying, but I'm first going to start out by saying that there is absolutely no such thing as the fog. It doesn't exists. There isn't some mystical mist that infects peoples minds and causes them to cheat on their spouses. Your wife is a very selfish human being. One of these days you'll really realize that. Give her the divorce she deserves and move on to bigger and better things. No fog here, just a very horrible human being.

NYC, it seems your WW is a run of the mill cake eater. She wants both her boyfriend and her husband. As a result, she's willing to do the bare minimum to keep you around. Her actions speak to this, and that is what you ought to pay attention to, not her words. For example, when you confront, she'll offer full transparency, but will immediately renege when she thinks the dust has settled and you find yourself back at square one. She'll promise NC only to break it and give you silly rationalizations. Don't for one second think the affair will magically dissipate because OM is changing offices.

That is not a good basis for R. R is hard work at the best of times when both spouses are giving it 100% effort. Your WW is nowhere near that, so were I in your shoes, I would take the offer of R off the table for now. That offer is something she has to work for and earn, and she does that working on her "whys". From the way you tell your story, she is definitely not remorseful. She may be regretful, but I am not even getting that vibe. She seems unrepentant, and will continue down that path if you continue down your current path.

Don't get me wrong... you can't force her to end her affair and come back to the marriage (nor should you want to), but you can damn sure get yourself out of infidelity, with or without her. That should be your primary focus right now. Getting yourself out of infidelity is paramount to your sense of self worth and sanity. There is no way you should tolerate playing second fiddle in your own marriage. You must stand up for your own interests because you know damn well she aint watching your back.

So, in your shoes, I would immediately initiate the 180, not to punish her, but to center yourself. Detaching from the situation will do you a lot of good and it will help you clear your mind and therefore make sounder decisions. I would also inject a dose of reality into the situation for her. Telling her parents will remove the fantasy of the situation for her and introduce her to reality. Consequences of our actions are the natural order of things for adults. It will also ease the burden you are currently carrying by helping her keep her secrets. So what if she gets mad at you? That should not be your concern. Rocking the boat and changing behavior patterns now is actually a good thing. Don't worry about losing her. You've already lost her, and the sooner you acknowledge that, the better off you'll be. It is on her to find her way back to you, not the other way around. I would also file for D and have her served. That also tends to snap WSs back to reality, and if it doesn't, it really isn't a big loss, because we all deserve a spouse who loves us like we love them. Anything less is a form of slavery. Good luck and stay strong brother.

With regards to the 180, I'm confused up to which point it is supposed to be used. Assuming that WW comes to the table and genuinely wants R, it seems like I should drop the pretense and work on mending our partnership?

The stated purpose of the 180 is to detach a person from their mate and eliminate any dependency. This results in the cheater seeing a little of what life will be like without their mate and tells them in no uncertain terms that their plan "B" is no longer an option.

The 180 has had profound effects on the cheaters and many have come out of the fog and shown true remorse. But just like you have pointed out, there is a good time to use the 180 and a poor time. Stopping communications when you are progressing satisfactorily seems foolish. Use your own judgement as to it's application.

The 180 as simply a label for a particular style of behavior that has proven to help a BS begin to heal. It means that you intend to emotionally detach from WS for your own sanity. A huge key to success is ghosting the WS. Yes, you might have to exchange logistical information regarding the children but that is it. NC is the strongest element of the 180 because it is so vital to detaching from WS.

Your question here:

With regards to the 180, I'm confused up to which point it is supposed to be used. Assuming that WW comes to the table and genuinely wants R, it seems like I should drop the pretense and work on mending our partnership?

pretty much says that you are not committed to your own healing yet. The 180 is not "pretense" or a bluff. She she will see through that quickly. The 180 is not a strategy to "win back" WS - it is a strategy to help you heal. If at some point, as you march toward divorce, your WW throws herself at your feet crying and begging for another chance well, you might have a hard decision to make. But it's just as likely that by then you are of the mindset to not even consider staying married to her. Either way the 180 is preparation for healing. The very act of taking control of the situation is extremely invigorating since you have been doing nothing but reacting to her since d-day. It is empowering to take control of your own life.

As gently as I can say this, you are holding on to a M that currently does not exist.

No matter how many rules you put down and demands you make she won't stop loving him until you cut her loose and let her see what real life is like with him.

Start the D process and do the 180 found in the healing library to begin detaching.

If you some day have a remorseful spouse ready to work on R, then you can start that process then. You don't have such a spouse now. You are unfortunately only wasting your time.

I reiterate from my previous post, will know you have a remorseful spouse when:

- She would be inconsolable with the thought of how she was the cause of so much pain to the person she loves most in the world.

- she would be begging to know what she could do to make it right.

- for you she would want to let everyone know it was her that screwed up, not you.

- she would want to read books on how to support her BS

- she would be in IC as much as possible to figure out what went wrong with her and how she could do this to the person she loves most in the world

- she would feel your pain more than her own and put your happiness ahead of or at least equal to hers.

- she would give you an open timeline of everything that happened.

- she would focus most on your well being, ignoring her own

- she would realize what the OM really is and start being sick at the thought of him. She would start calling him names like POS for how he helped her destroy her life.

Until you believe your WS shows the above behaviors you should move forward with D and focus on you and your children's well being.

Take care.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 11:57 PM, July 6th (Thursday)]

Called it quits for good this morning. Told her that I didn't want her to go to work and she cared more about seeing him than my needs. Not really a surprise after everything that's happened. I thank you all for the support I needed to finally pull the plug.

At this point the rest is logistics. Does anyone have good resources on how to message the D to our DDs?

Also, I plan to tell her family today.

I'm sorry this went this way for you. But this was not really the turning point anyway. Having multiple affairs and still being in love with AP2 was.

Now implement the 180, call the lawyer and have papers served and if you are not in IC find a good therapist to work with.

As for talking to DD people usually say tell age appropriate truth. I forget how old but if she's in high school I would include that mom has fallen in love with someone else. You don't want her to hear that from someone else.

Lastly, you are a good guy and there is someone out there who will love and cherish you. Not everyone cheats. So take your time and know you will find happiness some day.

In the meantime focus on you and DD.