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Want2BHappyAgain thank you and to you all for your support. I'm so sad and alone at times. The thing is he says the same answers all the time. He doesnt really change at all much. It's like a compulsion I can't stop. I dont believe he is being 100% honest about the details of the affair which hurts but do they all release every detail? He doesn't seem to want to help me in the way I need he keeps saying how can I when you're screaming at me interrogating my every move. He does tell me if he sees her or she talks to him. He says she was asking him to go to lunch in a group but he kept saying no so shes backed off now not sure if that's true.

I'm beating myself up cos I know asking the same questions is not bringing reconciliation for us and just ends up in an argument every day and night. He said can we just go 1 day just 1 day without talking about it but I cant. I feel so traumatized by it all. I have such bad thoughts if it wasnt for my kids I don't know how I would keep going. It's the worst pain and then anxiety kicks in thinking even if it is over how will I ever really trust him again.. my friends say you can rebuild the marraige start afresh and when you are both happy and in love there will be no reason to stray or want to hurt me...I feel so pathetic why am I not stronger?

I'm beating myself up cos I know asking the same questions is not bringing reconciliation for us and just ends up in an argument every day and night. He said can we just go 1 day just 1 day without talking about it but I cant. I feel so traumatized by it all. I have such bad thoughts if it wasnt for my kids I don't know how I would keep going. It's the worst pain and then anxiety kicks in thinking even if it is over how will I ever really trust him again.. my friends say you can rebuild the marraige start afresh and when you are both happy and in love there will be no reason to stray or want to hurt me...I feel so pathetic why am I not stronger?

What is your WH doing to make you feel safe while he continues to work with OW? You get to call the shots here...you want OW to know? Then tell her. Better yet - tell her husband. You are operating from a place of fear - what if he leaves me? What if it causes drama? Too bad your WH and cOW didn’t ask themselves the same questions before engaging in their affair.

This subject is near and dear to me as it’s my story. My H had an EA. My H continued to work with her. She was manipulative - just as my H manipulated me. I encourage you to read my story in my profile (click on the smiley face on the upper right of my post).

I’m also going to copy and paste my response to another member asking the same things you do:

It would help to know the general specifics of his job. Like in what capacity do they work together...how big is the workplace...how often to they see/communicate/spend time together in their work capacity.

I would like to share more of my journey as it relates to your question. So I already told you my H had a workplace affair and he hid it better to continue it for a month longer.

My H was a bartender at a large entertainment venue. Multiple bars throughout the complex. He was a breaker bartender. Instead of being stationed at one bar for the night, he went bar to bar giving them their 15 and 30 minute breaks. OW was a waitress at one of the bars.

On dday2, I told my husband to go...be with her and I was divorcing. That part of my story is in my profile but it scared my husband straight. He took a 6 week leave of absence from work to try and save the marriage and change my mind. He sent a NC text, changed his phone number, agreed to counselling...all the good stuff.

After 6 weeks, he had to return to work. I was frantic. COW worked in a slow bar and there were 2 bartenders to break there so he’d be making drinks for her for an hour straight and again later for 30 minutes. That would happen 3 times a week. He would go to work and I would freak out until he got home at 1 am. I would cry, check his findmyiphone location, sometimes even drive by to see if they were having a smoke together outside. I spent most evenings crying and obsessively investigating.

This came up during marriage counselling about 3 months post dday 2. My MC was shocked. She asked my H -did you know sassy was suffering like this??? He admitted it was hard for me. My MC then said something that changed my life and saved my marriage. She said “Sassy, pick a date. If by that date, you don’t feel safe with the current working arrangement then Mr. Sassy, you’ll need to find another job.”

My husband freaked out! Crying -lots of tears!! You see, he is paid very well for his job. With tips...just shy of $100,000 a year. He’s a college drop out - where would he make that kind of money??? Not to mention the amazing benefit package/pension/4 weeks paid vacation. He’d never find anything remotely comparable!!

He shared all this facts with MC and then she nodded and said, “Yes, you should have thought of that when you decided to shit where you eat. It all comes down to how much you want to save your marriage, because I can see that sassy will not last long with the current situation...I suggest you get your resume in order.”

So I picked a date right there. He had 6 weeks to find a way to make me good with working with her. I wasn’t entirely comfortable with this plan either you know. Did I want to save my marriage just to have a husband who resented me for drawing this boundary? We had 3 kids at home at the time - could we afford for him to take a $30,000+ hit on his yearly income??? I went along with the MC’s plan though - I didn’t show my fears to my husband.

The next night he went to work. He came home that night and he had come up with a plan. He spoke to the other 2 breaker bartenders and they changed the schedules so that they’d be able to break her bar by trading bars with him ...but because her bar was slow, there’s be less tips so they only agreed when he offered them $20 per trade. Because he and cOW had different days off, it was onlyv3 days they’d be in the building together and he showed me all the text exchanges he made nightly to arrange the switches.

And it worked! I did feel better - much safer...I stil had to contend with the possibility of their seeing each other on breaks but he called me on every break and spent his whole break chatting with me. He even quit smoking to avoid the smoking area.

Here’s the thing though. He told me for MONTHS that there was no solution to my anxiety about their working together. It was just something I’d need to “get over” or at least get used to. But once MC laid out this “pick a date to quit” plan - BOOM! Solution found....He figured out in one shift what he couldn’t in 3 months... how to make me feel safe with the situation. And then 8 months later, OW changed departments working as a dishwasher in the restaurants which my husband had nothing to do with AND she switched to days. But it didn’t happen until push come to shove. I had to push and thankfully, I was smart enough to not share my fears and doubts and follow the MC’s lead. I had to allow my husband to stare into the abyss... that’s when eureka hit.

As an aside, my husband lost his job 18 months ago (unrelated to the A - it was a conflict with a supervisor - he was targeted and set up). Do you know that we are fine? My job more than covers our expenses. The kids are independent and out of the house so that’s significant.... but my husband is now working some occasional home renovation jobs with his buddy for some extra cash but we were able to easily adjust our expenses...downsize our lifestyle. I went full time at work which allowed me to opt into a benefit package.

Why don't you let her know that you are aware of their EA?

I would tell their boss, the OBS and anyone else that I could think of. Bringing it out in the open tends to take the fun out of the affair - besides makes them accountable.

Don't be afraid to put your bitch boots on, he is counting on you to rug sweep and forgive so he can continue to cheat. Don't let him. Don't let her get away with it either.

One of them needs to leave the job, you will have a horrible time reconciling otherwise.

Hey Sassylee firstly I'm so happy to hear you worked through it and you guys are happy now.

He says he is trying to make me feel safe by telling me hes not with her at lunch. (But then how can I tell) they could be sitting in a lunch room or meeting room. He says he has answered all my questions thousands of times and told me it's over and he wont go back. It's just so hard to believe. They work in the same team but before the were seated directly across from one another now he is a few rows back from her. I know if I tell her hisband it will all end so badly and yes I am scared cos I know that is 100% it for us..so I either accept and tru to move on or expose

I’m also sharing a link to an amazing article to tie you over until your copy of How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair (by Linda MacDonald) arrives. Copy and paste the article into a word document to print out for your WH. Don’t share SI with him yet - let this be your safe space for now. Also - I want you to read the article so you can see that the way you are behaving and thinking is NORMAL. This is the side effect of being emotionally abused and traumatized by your life partner. Anyone who didn’t feel and behave as you are right now is an an aberration.

Here it is “What Every WS Should Know”:

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250&AP=1&HL=

And no. After lying and betraying - he does not get to use the “trust me” line. I learned how frickin awesome of a liar my H actually was when he fooled me the month after dday1 - he also assured me it was over - newsflash - they just got more careful. But I hadn’t put my bitch boots on yet - I was doing the pick me dance because I was afraid. Once I was willing to lose the marriage in order to save it? That’s when all the magic happened.

I bet you also knew that if your WH ever cheated on you that it was 100% OVER...you would leave him immediately. Almost ALL of us have felt this way...until we have had it blow up in our face. Sometimes what we THINK is a given turns out to not be that way at all. It is still so very SCARY to go through some of this stuff.

sassylee...wow... I never saw that post before. It is so weird how some people CAN’T do anything...until they have something to really lose huh?!

Also, I didn’t tell OBS. My WH told me a bunch of lies (he was a MMA fighter, would kill my husband blah blah blah) all lies! So I said nothing but a month after dday2, OBS found out about another side gig boyfriend she had going on and he threw her to the curb - tossed her out of the house that night. She tried getting my H’s attention at work (crying, running out of her bar all dramatic and wailing so he’d try to be the knight in shining armour and follow her) but he maintained NC. Here’s the kicker - if it did “bring them together” - then that tells me exactly what I need to know. Either he’s committed to the marriage or he’s not - I can NOT control him nor his choices. I can only control MY choices and I need the truth in order to make the choices that are safest for me. You want her my dear husband? Go to her. Let me go. Is it scary? Yes! Of course it is! But what is scarier - ending the marriage or staying in a marriage of three? Staying one more month in a marriage where I feel unsafe and gas lit was unacceptable.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:11 AM, July 1st (Monday)]

It sounds like your WH is the one calling the shots here - and you need to retake your power. Might he pull the plug and divorce you? Maybe. It sounds a bit like he’s bullying you to keep you compliant. That’s not R. He’s not R material - yet. In the book we recommend (How to Help Your Spouse Heal) they have a list of qualities your cheater should have to predict a successful reconciler. Here they are:

The 15 points from Linda MacDonald's book that are a minimum for a wayward spouse to be doing in order to help you heal:

Successful Rebuilders:

• are non defensive

• examine their motives for their affairs, without blaming their spouses

• accept their roles as healers to their wounded partners

• do not resist breaking off all contact with the affair partner

• show genuine contrition and remorse for what they have done

• make amends and apologize to loved ones

• apologize often, especially the first two years

• listen with patience and validate their spouses’ pain

• allow their spouses a lot of room to express their feelings

• respect the betrayed spouse’s timetable for recovering

• seek to assure spouses of their love and commitment to fidelity

• keep no secrets

• do not maintain close ties with those who condoned the affair

• are willing to be extremely accountable for their time and activities

• frequently check in with spouses as to how they are doing

• are aware of and anticipate triggers of the affair

• are willing to get rid of hurtful reminders of the affair

• don’t minimize the damage the affair had on the children

• commit themselves to a long-term plan for recovery, honesty, and spiritual growth

I would suggest you compare your wayward spouse's actions to this list to determine if they can successfully turn their life around and heal the marriage.

Here's what I see from the wayward side of the street. He says he hasn't told the OW that you know. Why in God's name not? I don't even mean for your sake, because he's clearly not willing to make that a priority. I mean that it also doesn't make sense that he hasn't told her to make life easier for himself.

His story is that he and OW were in a fantasy world, exchanging words of love and plying each other with empty ego kibbles. You found out, and his bubble popped. He told her it was over and that they neeed to back off. And his claim is that she just shrugged and said ok? People who are willing to risk their marriages for ego kibbles do it because they deeply crave the kibbles. In this scenario, your WH is the dealer that just cut off her source. OW's first question is going to be why. Why now? What did I do? Is there a misunderstanding? Can I convince you otherwise? The easiest way for him to (hopefully) shut her down is to tell her that his wife found out and that you are his first priority. Why wouldn't he do that?

One answer is that he's lying and didn't cut it off, which is obviously the one that has you ruminating. Another is that he wants to feel powerful to OW. He doesn't want to present the portrait of a skulking kid who got caught and has been grounded; he wants to be the guy in the power seat who used her up and tossed her out. He's either still cheating, or he's willing to keep manipulating both of you in order to save face. In looking at you, OW, and himself, there's only one person whose feelings matter to him at all.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you should give a rat's ass about OW's feelings. She knew he was someone else's husband. I'm saying that I can't come up with any scenario where not telling OW makes rational sense as opposed to playing emotional games. And staying at the job because he can't see a good enough reason to leave? WTF?

Sassylee gave you excellent advice. You need to give him a good enough reason, which is that you can't live like this, so it's either the job or the marriage. Tell OBS. Get the poly. Get it through his thick skull that if he wants you to get past your obsessive questioning, there are tools to accomplish that goal that he is choosing not to use. I learned that lesson far, far later than I should have, and my BH is still paying the price.

You need to give him a good enough reason, which is that you can't live like this, so it's either the job or the marriage. Tell OBS. Get the poly. Get it through his thick skull that if he wants you to get past your obsessive questioning, there are tools to accomplish that goal that he is choosing not to use

this! and all of what sassy said.

what would you tell your daughter to do if her husband treated her like this?

My H came home every night too. He was also home on the weekends. He was fucking her during their lunch hour,,,,

Don't for one second think this was only an emotional affair. My guess is he is lying.

Working with his AP was a deal breaker for me, but my WH already started looking for another job long before I caught him. He knew he needed to get away from her and the toxic environment.

There was no way I could have healed if he still worked with her.

My counselor also said my anxiety is so strong will I just be as insecure in the next job with other women.

Is that exactly what your counselor said? If not, what were the actual words, as closely as you can remember?

The reason I ask that is that the statement betrays a total lack of understanding what infidelity is. OW didn't make your H cheat - your H cheated for his own reasons.

That means he could very easily cheat in a new job, unless he resolves his own issues. IOW, of course you'll be insecure in his next job. Who wouldn't be?

Your M didn't cause your H to cheat. If he gets out of his wayward mindset, a lot of the M problems that bug him will go away permanently. Therefore, those problems aren't worth much effort right now. All they are is blame-shifting - that is, your H is blaming you for his failure as a human being, for his failure as an H, and for his cheating.

Remember: you were in the same M as him, and you didn't cheat.

*****

I understand wanting lots of answers. I understand wanting to ask the same question multiple times. I'm 8.5 years out, and I still ask questions.

Q & A doesn't always help R, but my bet is that it usually helps the BS's recovery. Here are some of the ways:

If your WS answers honestly, it helps her take responsibility for what she did, and that's critical to the WS's healing.

If your WS answers honestly, it helps build trust - each honest answer does only a little trust building, but it mounts up.

Conversely, dishonest answers and objecting to the questions indicate a lack of remorse and a lack of willingness to do the work necessary to R.

You indicate you keep asking because you don't believe him. That could be paranoia, but it's more likely your gut sensing that he is still, in fact, lying. Don't ignore your gut.

BTW, I asked and asked and asked even though my gut told me my W was telling the truth.

*****

You simply can't R(econcile)with an unremorseful WS. The only 'r' you can do with an unremorseful WS is r(ug-sweep).

R is a process of (re)building your M. It's necessary to risk losing the M in order to save it.

I suggest comparing your H's behavior to the recommendations in 'What Every WS Needs to Know.' I recommend printing out that document and asking your H to read it and to follow it. If his behavior doesn't match - and it looks like it doesn't - and if he's unwilling to change, you're likely to be better off overall to detach and, if financially feasible, to split.

OTOH, if WEWSNTK effects a change for the better in your H, R becomes doable.

BTW, I suggest keeping SI to yourself until you're absolutely certain your H is committed to R. Tell him the document is just something you found on the web. If he's not committed to R while knowing you use SI, he's too likely to use what you post against you.

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:17 AM, July 1st (Monday)]

I'm so sorry for what you are going through. It is hell - we all know it very well.

I can only share my own story. My XWH had an EA with a co-worker. He admitted it to me and said he thought he might love her. We had a very rough time until he said he would go to MC. There we talked about ways he could make me feel safe because they still worked together. He swore it was over & they only talked about business. He lied to my face and to the MC. They took it underground. He was home every night and every weekend and called me multiple times a day from work to "check in."

I didn't want to be that wife that checks on my husband all the time. I decided to trust him and didn't question anything. We stopped going to MC. I thought everything was fine. It was not - it became a PA and he confessed when our cell phone bill spiked and I asked for the call detail. This was in the days before unlimited calling.

I kicked him out but I continued to play the pick me dance - even after HE filed for D, right up until it was final. It's embarrassing when I look back at how desperate I was to make it work - how convinced I was that he would eventually "snap out of it."

You can not nice someone into loving you. They just see it as weak and continue to use and abuse you. It stops when you decide to stop it.

I'm sending strength and peace to you because I know you need it.

NL

I don't know ladies. I'm so confused. I think I wasnt clear with everything. He said it started in Oct 18 which I believe as this matches with how distant and angry he became with me. On Feb 1st I saw him in his car at lunch time with a woman. I could not see her face and he saw my car and he drove off fast. I confronted him he said it was a girl in the office that I had never heard of. He said that they had formed a friendship. I was devastated and I kept questioning why would you be in the car at lunch time. He does have to move his car multiple times through the day for parking timings (this has always been) we fought for a month non stop

Sorry I have to continue her as it keeps not letting me post when its a long msg. Something just didnt sit right I didn't believe the story for a mth i went through hell in which he said our marraige was in such s bad place (true) we kept splitting up and fighting and he wanted to leave. He had tried to go a few times before also. The story didn't add up so I snooped and found the emails and they were with the woman that I originally suspected. So now 4 mths from that day I dont know what to think. So he said yes they had an emotional affair and they felt love for each other but she was never going to leave heher hisabnd and never

Said she wasnt happy or was in a bad place kn her marraige. He had known her for 5 years and they had been friends at work I knee this. He had confided in her and said he wasnt happy with us and wanted to leave we were arguing all the time and it wasnt healthy for us or thr kids. She said dont leave her dont split up your family. They got closer and it started. When I found out he said the feelings were there but they weren't acting on them. He said things had started to die down and they weren't saying things to each other as much. Then she said to him I can do this anymore we have to stop I dont want to hurt my husband anymore

So he said she ended it and he agreed. I know it was her in the car that day and I think it ruffled her. I dont believe he told her it was me but probably said theres someone I know. I think possibly that was enough for reality to hit in and she thought this is dangerous we will get caught. I asked him so if your feelings were so strong for each other and then it was over wasnt it hard to end it. He said it was dying out. He said he realised it was a fantasy not real. It made him feel good at the time. It was out of the ordinary she made him feel appreciated and good about himself. When he came home we were fighting all the time and it was awful