SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The1stWife,

Yes, I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to get through this for us to stay together. I will be ok for a little bit but then the memories of the two of them come rushing back in my head. Their actions were hurtful but the words they exchanged are forever embedded in my head and are way more hurtful. I can not get the emails out of my head. Them telling eachother they love eachother. Her telling him she can't lose him. Him telling her she's all he has. It's just so heartbreaking. And the whole time her husband and I there like two fools, not having any clue. They played it so well. Hardly even interacted in front of us. We never suspected a thing. Which is even scarier for me. A man I loved with all my heart is capable of cheating that well. I made the name perfect storm because for them it was. They both knew me sooo well. If I had any off feelings, she'd be the one I'd have girl talk with. Or if things weren't right I'd talk to him. They both knew how to handle me to get by. Her and I would have conversations about our sex lives. She knew at the time I was struggling really bad with depression and I was on medications that made me not want to be intimate. Her and her husband struggled with their sex life all the time. I remember even talking to her about how I was on the fence about having a 3rd child. She tried to talk me out of it but I thought her reasoning for it was just because my middle child was older and I'd be starting all over again. Now I see, she didn't want US having another child. He was the one begging me for years for the 3rd child. I believe after I had that conversation with her telling her he won't give up on begging me for a 3rd, is when she realized he wasn't trying to leave me like he was telling her. It's when she put her foot down and gave him an ultimatum. Of he wasn't going to leave me then she wasn't going to continue having sex. He told her he wasn't going to leave. That's when the sex stopped. Months later I got pregnant. She wrote him a long email about how upset she was about it. So, I believe that was what made the sex stop. But they continued their EA the whole time after that. Even last fall I believe she was trying to start it all back up again. He didn't take the bait this time. She started the same Bullshit, trying to put in his head that I might be cheating while he's at work. He shut her down telling her be knows I'm not. Then she started saying her husband was cheating and she needed to find some side dick again. He told her she should talk to me about it and have a friends advice. Then when that didn't work she started telling him she thinks she found someone else but she is going to start the divorce process this time and he congratulated her. His contact with her was less and less over the last few years. I feel like this healing process is just never going to end which makes me feel like we will never work out. I will always have these thoughts in my head. Maybe if he was man enough to have admitted it all to me without me having to go look for proof then I l'd be able to get through it better but I had to read word for word their emails to eachother and it was gut wrenching. The hard part is how good we are together. We parent great together. We have fun together. Even now, on our good days, we have a great time together. Everyday he's thanking me for speaking to him and "allowing" him to be around me after all he did. Over the years we would be having a great time and I'd look over at him and he'd look like he wanted to cry. I'd ask him what's wrong and he'd melt into me and tell me he doesn't deserve me, I'm too good for him. He now admitted all those times it was the guilt killing him inside that he risked everything and none of it was worth it. I used to think he was crazy. I used to thank God for HIM in MY life. Now I'm just thankful for our kids and wish I never met him...

PS,

You wrote, I don't know how she could be in love with my man and then go on family outings with us and look me in my face.

There's something called duping delight in which a person feels some satisfaction at getting over on other.

Check out youtube there is an interview with a woman Diane Downs who illustrates this behavior, it's like a 30 second clip.

Survrus,

Thank you. I will definitely look it up. The more I think of everything, the more I realize she was enjoying the whole screwed up situation. I remember sometimes she would have a weird smirk on her face and I'd wonder what the hell is she thinking. Now I know, probably the power and knowledge she had over everything.

PS222

I just wanted to jump in here and say I’m sorry for your pain.

Truth is, it’s going to go on for a long time no matter what path you take. But as time goes on, months, years, it will be more and more in the background, allowing you to live life over time and return to happiness.

Now, about that path, it can with him or without him. No shame in saying this is all a deal breaker and telling him you should go your separate ways. It’s your right, and it’s your decision on the best way to heal. So if you want to decide to call a lawyer and have him served, we can support you thru that.

However, if you think the benefits of reconciliation outweigh leaving a man you still love, then giving rebuilding a try is noble as well.

Three things about trying for reconciliation:

1- you need to tell him EXACTLY what you need to see. Open communication. He has to figure out how to deliver on it. But no one innately knows how to rebuild after fucking up a relationship. They can have ideas. And it starts with him finding true remorse. Hurting for you and what you have been thru more than hurting for himself. Let him know that. If you need help in stating what you need, let us know.

2- Reconciliation begins AFTER he has taken the steps to rebuild and help you heal, NOT before. Saying i”m sorry, I’ll do the work takes 4 seconds to say. Doing the actual work takes 4-40 years! So let him know that your not reconciled until that work is done and even then you’re not guaranteeing it will work.

3- Finally, loving a wayward spouse after they’ve done the work is different than before the way you loved him before the affair. I’ve said it here before, one of the major, if not the major thing that love is based on after reconciliation is PRIDE. The pride you have in the person they have become. You never have to forgive the person they were and what they did, but perhaps you’ll be able to forgive the person they have become.

The changes they made. They support they gave. And pride in that they worked really hard and they did it for you, and your relationship, and to earn some of your respect back. That is what you will come to find the basis for perhaps falling in love again, years later. It’s not easy. But it’s possible.

I wish you well.

Stevesn,

Thank you. It's hard because I don't even know what I need from him. I can say he's been extremely remorseful and has been going above and beyond to try to help me through what he can. There has been no contact with her at all. On both parts. It was hard getting the kids to stop contact but that has stopped now also so I don't have deal with that anymore. The last conversation with her was a 3 way call with her, her husband, him and me. That ended in them yelling and cussing eachother out due to one saying the other is lying and so on. Pretty pointless conversation. I just personally wanted to hear her finally admit to it all. Which she did. He has been good about answering all my questions. Some things he claims he can't remember because it had happened back around 2011-2013. So, those conversations go bad when he "can't remember" something.

I love him so much and as the days go by I lean more towards I need to leave. I just don't think I can ever get over this. I want to believe that he can fix this and we can work out but I just don't know. He's been doing everything I've asked and more and it still just doesn't feel right or enough. I think the hard part is, he's never treated me badly. He's always been so caring and always mad eme feel special

sorry...hit Submit Message by accident. He's always made me feel special. So, now when he's doing extra stuff I wonder if it's just for the moment to try to "win" me back because he is guilty. And I wonder how long is this going to last, with all the extra stuff. I feel like all the good stuff he has done all these years was just all bullshit since he was screwing my friend on the side too. All our memories are ruined because 90% of them were with her and her family. But yes, trying to figure out what I want and need is hard when I don't even know what any of that is right now. I'm just lost.

PerfectSorm you take as much time as you need.

Just breath in, talk, vent, scream, breath out and repeat.

Talk to IC, legal and Doctor. Exercise and try to eat well. You have such a betrayal to go through.

One day at a time.

Buffer

Big cyber hugs 🤗

Buffer,

Thank you. I am definitely trying.

What the two of them did was gaslighting. They played you for a fool. That’s what is so hard about long term affairs. The two people you trusted most in the world are world class liars. He was getting all the sex he wanted and she was the witch feeding you the poison apple. Honestly, she sounds like a sociopath. I agree with others. No matter what you decide it is going to take you a very long time to feel like you aren’t drowning. Just put one foot in front of the other and take care of the basics of life. You don’t owe him anything. You do owe your children your best self. Concentrate on staying healthy and look after your kids. Those two things are the most important.

You are not alone in the length of the betrayal, or the details, and certainly not in the lack of knowing. Unfortunately, as you have been welcomed to the club already, you know that.

Them telling eachother they love eachother. Her telling him she can't lose him. Him telling her she's all he has. It's just so heartbreaking. And the whole time her husband and I there like two fools, not having any clue. They played it so well. Hardly even interacted in front of us.

Remember, in your head, to try to keep these things in context.

Many affairs are chock full of stuff like this, compliments, emotional gushings, etc.

It is all just so much bullshit, as people try to convince each other how special they are, how special their relationship is, and cover up the gaping wound they are tearing in their families.

Me, during my FWS affair, I get myself up in the morning, get ready for work, make my wife coffee, leave for work, work all day, come home, eat dinner, spend time with my wife and kids, and go to sleep, repeat the following day. I'm nothing special. Turns out the OBS was largely the same.

But, our WS's, oh, they were special.

FWS and her AP are throwing compliments at each other, fucking in the park, as well as each others homes, and other places, and talking up how wonderful each other is, while they actively work to destroy their families and to top it off her AP is trying to convince her to "run away together". It was all just crazy when looked at in a detached way. I mean, really, just how was that all supposed to work, the "running away", both families with small children, mortgages, car payments, etc?

The compliments, the talk, the behaviors, all just immature escape from reality, like pretending to be a superhero when you are a kid, but not doing your chores.

THIS PARAGRAPH BELOW, THIS IS IMPORTANT.

His contact with her was less and less over the last few years. I feel like this healing process is just never going to end which makes me feel like we will never work out. I will always have these thoughts in my head. Maybe if he was man enough to have admitted it all to me without me having to go look for proof then I l'd be able to get through it better but I had to read word for word their emails to eachother and it was gut wrenching. The hard part is how good we are together. We parent great together. We have fun together. Even now, on our good days, we have a great time together. Everyday he's thanking me for speaking to him and "allowing" him to be around me after all he did.

Sounds like he may have learned a lesson about life, about what really matters, and grown up somewhat. Now, he needs to grow up some more, and if he does, and works hard at it, you may have a FWS one day who is worth living with even though you can't completely get the betrayal out of your head.

It takes more than the talk though, he has to do the work to be a safe partner, he has to recognize the damage and UNDERSTAND the damage. None of that is easy work.

Good luck.

I do not want you to think b/c your H came to you and admitted the affair that anything would be different. You have previously mentioned that maybe things would be different if he had admitted it to you.

He most likely would have lied and minimized the affair. You would not know the whole truth. Do you believe he would have told you the affair was with your friend? I don’t think so (sorry to say).

My H came home one night and admitted the affair. He said it was an EA and it was nothing. I gave him credit for admitting it. I thought that was brave. Two weeks later he wants a D. Gee I guess it’s more than nothing.

I didn’t have SI then to support me. Made all the mistakes and learned the hard way not to trust a lying cheating spouse.

I just think (in most cases) you never get the complete truth unless the betrayed spouse finds it on their own. My H was BEGGING me to R. Funny how he was willing to let me believe the OW pursued him - until she sent me 300 emails and I saw his email asking her to meet to discuss a work project - at a bar!!!!! He pursued her. But unless I found out on my own there were things he never would have admitted.

I think the same would be true for your situation b/c WHO he had the affair with was the most damaging part.

I found out about part 2 of my H’s affair b/c I called the OW. She spilled the beans. When I asked my H what his plan was he was honest (for once) and told me he was going to make amends, repair our marriage and take it to his grave.

Typical cheater IMO!

[This message edited by The1stWife at 6:22 AM, April 17th (Friday)]

Standinghere,

Thank you for your response. During our counseling together the therapist has said similar to what you said about the exchange of words. It doesn't help much with the pain. I guess maybe to help me understand the affair more. My H tries to tell me it was all lies he was saying to her. Some of me believes it just by what emails I have read but I do feel there was some truth to it. Especially later on after they've established their relationship with eachother. I'm sure at first he was lying to her to get what he wanted and see where it went. I saw her email pretty much telling him she doesn't want to feel used and wanted to make sure he was feeling the same way as her. She was almost coaching him into what he needs to say to her. Weird, but he went along with it. For a lot of the emails after it was him just basically reiterating what she said. Like, I feel the same as you and just repeating the same words as her. That went on for awhile. He said it felt like a chore after awhile. She would write email after email to him and finally he'd respond with a few sentences repeating what she was saying. He said it was to get her off his back (eye roll) and to just say something back. I told him if he didn't want to talk to her, just stop responding. He said when he tried to distance himself from her, she would start treating me weird and I'd notice it and start telling him about how she stopped talking to me for no reason or was acting shitty to me and I was going to call her out to see what her problem was. He would go back to "normal" with her and then she'd get back to "normal". After the PA ended it seems like that's when he got more emotionally involved. He emailed more about his feelings. The therapist said it was his way of gaining the control he lost over it again. But that's hard for me to believe.

I do believe he has learned a lesson about life. I just fear it maybe too late for us. For the first time he's in his own therapy (2x a week), sex addict therapy and then our therapy together. He's never really been open to it in the past. One of my main questions to him was WHY and he couldn't really answer it. My Ex Friend isn't even his "type", he actually was always annoyed by her. Probably because he was fucking her and he had to be a certain way around her husband and I. He's always been a home body and never really went out. When I would make plans for her family and ours to go out to do things he was always annoyed and hated it. Sometimes we would get into a disagreement and I thought it was him just wanting to stay in the house. He had a very sheltered childhood and I was the opposite, Always out and about. I thought it was that. He would always thank me after for getting him out to experience things, especially with our kids. But he constantly talked bad about her which used to upset me. It is just all still so crazy to me. It's definitely going to be long road to whichever way we end up.

The1stWife,

Im so sorry that you have gone through this too. You are actually 100% right. I know he wouldn't have been forthcoming with information. I HAD to have physical proof. For the both of them to admit what was going on. I have asked him for the past 7 years to tell me the truth and for 7 years he has denied it. Not telling me a single thing. Even at first he told me he couldn't remember things. I know it was a long time ago but there are just certain things you DON'T forget when it comes to this. At first he told me it was just sex a few times. After speaking with his own therapist she told him he needs to come clean with everything and anything. They worked together on him coming clean. Also, I'm sure he knew the more I'd read, the more I would learn on my own eventually. Finally he started opening up. But I do feel it was forced because I made comments about if I keep finding more info and he couldn't be honest and tell me on his own then there's no way I can stay together. Finally he opened up and started telling me the details. About how they did have sex a few times but he was struggling "keeping it up" so she started giving him oral sex. And once he was able to get that from her he always asked for that. That's when he admitted she pulled his pants down in our kitchen and attempted oral sex while her husband and I were outside with the kids. He used to also be very aggressive and would try to hurt her during it. He has never been like that with me. Also gentle, always makes sure I enjoy the sex and I was getting off first. She never even got off with him, so that baffles me as to why she would keep it going back for more too. When talking to her she admitted a lot and had no answer as to why she kept it going because she didn't enjoy the sex. She thinks it was more of the emotional part. He even apologized to her once for hurting her during her giving him oral sex and she said it was ok she liked it. He just turned her into his cup dumpster which is disturbing to me because he has never been like that or even acted that way. Me and everyone that knows him knows him as this gentle calm man. He doesn't even argue much. He waits until things calm down and then expresses himself. So he definitely had another side of him with her. That only she knew about. With her he seemed to have an entitlement about their relationship they had going on. It's just weird. And she played a whole different role than who she really was too. The whole thing is just so screwed up.

My husband also had an affair with my best friend . The double betrayal is so hard to handle.

In the forums, scroll down, there is own called “I can Relate”, click on it and scroll down to the forum called “Double Betrayal”. It talks about what you and many others are dealing with. It does not get a lot of action. But I found that just by reading what others had gone thru it really helped me understand that I was not “over reacting” or losing my mind.

Double betrayal has it own set of pain. The person you would have turned to to help you thru this is no longer there. Neither is the man that you thought you had married. You feel so alone.

My heart goes out to you.

Lefty,

Thank you. I'm so sorry you are going through the same. You are so right. It's definitely a whole other level of hurt. I have to mourn the people I thought they were because that is dead and gone. But so hard to.

I started reading some of those posts in the Double Betrayal. The pain is just awful.

PerfectStorm, I am so sorry that you are having to experience such a betrayal! It's almost surreal, isn't it??

As I am reading your story, something keeps coming to my mind...this is about you now and how you unknowingly (unconsciously) accepted two people in your life who you loved so dearly but betrayed you so deeply and for a very long period of time, your WH and your best friend of 25 years! I almost want to say unbelievable but my story and what I accepted was unbelievable too! :(

First of all, you've mentioned your wayward girlfriend has admittedly gone out on her BH several times and he's even physically abused her because of this.

What do you think made you turn a blind eye toward your girlfriend's wayward behavior? Also, why do you think you accepted your WH porn use? Why do you think it was okay that your WH watched porn? It really doesn't matter how often he did it, just understand he did it.

I think if you dig deep enough, you may find your answers as to why you would overlook these horrible defenses and I'm sure there is more that you are subconsciously accepting but it just hasn't come to light yet.

Knowing what I know now, I would be careful and take my time to make a decision as to whether to want to R with this man or to move forward in your life without him. But if you choose to stay with him just understand that the trust will never be the same again. Can you have some sense of trust again? Maybe, but not the blind trust you once felt before this trama.

What I have found is that I was always looking over my shoulder and never feeling the oneness I felt before my deceased (3/14/2020) WH betrayed me in the worst ways possible. Lots of gaslighting and the new term, duping delight going on. Sounds like you had to experience this also. I'm so sorry.

I hope you find some healing and understanding throughout this journey you've been forced to embark upon. But please know that you will never be able to unsee or unknow the person, the truth of who your WH now is. He can say and do anything but the fact remains that he did this without a conscience for many years. Who cares if he looked at you with sadness in his eye's. Still didn't stop him from doing the shitty behavior.

You also mentioned how well you and your WH got along. Same here, except when WH was drinking, he became a total jerk. Couldn't stand the person (monster) he became.

My WH did all sorts of kind and wonderful things for me and we also got along really well. I mean, I truly loved him. Still do! But my WH did all these vicious things against me, (can't forget the kid's) and our marriage. Why? Because he was emotionally sick is why, just as your ex wayward girlfriend and your WH is. But we are emotionally sick too for accepting bad behavior as the norm. Healthy minds wouldn't accept this.

Can a leopard change its spots? Not so sure its possible.

Sadly, I put up with my WH shitty behavior until around a year ago when he did it again (used other women to make me jealous).

I retaliated by hitting him, kicking him and cursing at him. I couldn't take it anymore. I'm not proud to say but I stooped to his level. Got him to stop hurting me but at what price?

I'm sure he did have a hard time being around her with you and her husband there. He had to watch everything he did and said and everything she did and said to keep from tipping you two off. Also he had to watch her with her husband which was probably not something he wanted to see and she was most likely giving him a hard time for any affection he showed you. What a mess!

I know that is really hard because so many of your memories from the past now feel tainted. I don't have a lot of advice to add just wanted to say I feel so badly for you. I hope you can find some peace.

Hurtmyheart,

I'm so sorry to hear about your pain as well and am sorry for the loss you are going through as well. I can't imagine the pain you are enduring now, especially with the way the world is right now. I am so grateful I stumbled across this site.

My therapist actually brought up the same point you did. Me knowing what she had done in the past to her own husband and me looking the other way. I still don't have an answer to that except for the fact that I am awful at judging character. I've always not judged people by their actions to others and just solely on how they treated me. As you can see. That hasn't played out very well. People show me their true colors and as long as it didn't affect me I didn't hold them accountable. Pretty shitty and stupid on my part. I've definitely learned my lesson. I definitely used to voice to her that what she was doing was wrong but she always gave the excuse that he cheated first.

As for his porn use, I'm not really sure why it never bothered me. Now it bothers me due to him going to therapy and finding out he actually has a sex addiction. One of the things they discovered was he used it for coping. He claims since this has started he hasn't looked at porn but I really don't know. I know in the past back when I was struggling with my own depression. I had no intention in being intimate with him. He would literally beg for anything from me. It was hard to connect during that time. So, I was glad he'd use porn to leave me alone. Over the years it just wasn't something I cared about him doing. Not really sure why. I always knew but just never how much. I think if I knew he needed to do it at least 3 times a day (even at work) then that would have been alarming to me. Rather than him doing it when we didn't have the chance to so he went to that instead.

In my own therapy my therapist has stated that I allow a lot of these unhealthy things because I never knew anything healthy. It's kinda normal for me to have chaos and things happening (if that makes sense?). I had a shitty childhood that I'm still trying to work on to be a better person and parent for my kids. I guess it shows when I knowingly allowed things to happen around me and not correcting it or cutting it off like a healthy thinking person would.

You're right, I don't think I'll ever trust him again. Definitely not blindly trusting him. Which is huge for me. Without the trust I don't think he can rebuild much. I feel like if he'd do it with someone so close to me then nobody is off limits. Who next? I'm afraid to allow myself to try again and then end up hurt again like you said your WH did again. There's no way to tell. I also feel like there's just no point in even trying to waste more time trying to move forward together. I constantly ask him why try? Why put so much effort now? Just let it go and be done. But he believes he can fix it all and rebuild and we can be better. I'm just not so optimistic about that.

Beenthereinco,

I never even looked at it like that. I'm know she gave him shit about being with me. She constantly asked him to leave me and when will he do it. He had to constantly deflect the questions. She'd write long drawn out emails of how she wants him to leave me and then saying he said he would and hasn't. So, I'm sure of he showed me any type of affection or attention around her, he had to later deal with her bullshit about it. It finally got to the point that she wouldn't leave him alone about leaving me and he responded that he's not leaving me and his family. That's when she gave him the ultimatum to leave me or nothing with her anymore. So, he confirmed he wasn't leaving again. She cut off the sex from him but continued to have the EA long after that.

Our memories are forever tainted and just ruined. Which makes me so sad because there's so many memories and pictures that include all of our kids that are just so painful to look at. I love her kids as my own. And I'll never be there for them for anything ever again. So, while I've lose (who I thought was) my best friend and a great husband but also 3 amazing kids of hers that I can no longer have contact with. Definitely a big mess.