SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Skins, I am with you.

Why should I bother? She is so sad and so hurt now. But she made all this. SHE MADE ALL THIS HAPPEN.

I want D so that I am a free man. Then she can see if she can get me back and she will be against the competition. Downside for her is she already fucked me over and destroyed me emotionally once. That's not a good starting place. But she can try I suppose.

I don't even know if I want a woman at this point in my life.

Your main point. Why do I have to go through all the pain and mental torture just because someone else is fucked up? Get rid of it. Throw it away like you would with any other damaged goods and get on with your life as a good and decent person.

Hell, I'll even save you a seat

shotgun!

But please don't speak for all of us

He doesn't speak for all of us. Every one of us has an opinion. His one post doesn't represent all advice given on this site any more than mine does. Otherwise the site would be called 'survivinginfidelitywithfartjokes.com'

He's also a relatively new member that went through hell.

One of the biggest things we tell newbies is to take what you need and leave the rest.

A lot of us folks that have been here years have seen a lot. Periods when dudes said to new dudes to be alpha. Fortunetelling spam. Biological engineers that recommend the regrowth of testicals. Great debates. Painful debates. Debates that devolve into insult slinging. Single Aps who think they have the answer to all our pain in two sentences. Worse.

Skins is taking the stance he is because he formulated a strong opinion based on his experience. His is ONE voice in THOUSANDS.

If he has chosen to take this stance in order to survive what his ww put him through, more power to him. I'm happier to see his strength now than where he was a few months ago. I'm glad he's healing and willing to share what worked for him.

If it doesn't work for others, so what? They can take what they need and leave the rest. Those of us that made it through took our own paths, with help. And even if what he says helps just ONE person, its still worth saying.

We don't have to tell him his generalization is not all encompassing if we're already living examples.

Right?

@josiep, it doesn't matter. Guidelines are guidelines and they are for everyone. Most people here are in some level of pain, so they should have an exception from guidelines? If they get one, then others should get them. Like if they talk about politics they don't get banned because they posted it whilst they were in pain. We need guidelines for everyone otherwise it would be anarchy!

It is also rude and insulting to make such a gross generalization about reconciliation. I don't care how much pain you're in, you don't get to be rude and insulting to others about their choice. You are responsible for your choices. (<meaning what we choose to post) Always. It gets tiresome to read many posts where members make the statement that reconciliation is not a valid choice. It invalidates so many people here. I expect it IRL, it is really disheartening to hear it from fellow SI members. It makes people feel defensive and can possibly undermine some people, too.

When one is reminded that they are generalizing they can correct it. I don't feel anyone was lecturing but pointing out his generalization. And, now you are "lecturing" us on how we need to post or how you feel we need to post.

eta: to fix sentence and to explain that I put quotes around the word "lecturing" because I don't feel you, or anyone else on this thread, was lecturing

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 7:31 PM, March 30th (Friday)]

Just curious skins but do you think that BS that stay and work on it are not empowered just because the R for marriage fails?

All of the betrayed spouses need to be empowered to take their lives back again, find happiness again, gain independence and freedom. "get out of infidelity" by using the 180 method. I'm advocating doing exactly that and to file for D.

I am not a BS, but I find offense in this statement that if a BS stays and doesn't D then they are what? There is the issues with the generalizations. I am not sure how a BS that chooses to stay would feel about that statement. You make them sound like dumb weak fools when they are completely the opposite. The only dumb weak fools are the WS that waste the chance at R themselves. Not the BS that choose to give it a try.

I agree with josiep. People in reconciliation get too defensive when angry, 'I'm outta here' posters say anything. When people post about R, nobody gets offended. But when people are anti-R, reconcilers get offended.

There are two sides post-infidelity. Everybody knows it. Skins is just arguing the unpleasant side. Just because it's unpleasant doesn't make it any less valid than the pleasant outcome. It's not that big of a deal that a few posters think reconciliation is a terrible idea; it just offers a counter view and some support to those who are suffering with unremorseful spouses.

Just my opinion.

Do people who have reconciled make topic posts and threads about what a crappy choice it is to get a divorce? What a waste of time and energy it is to get divorced? Making those who make the choice to divorce feel like they are weak and foolish? I don't think so. I have been here 8 years and I have never seen a thread topic about people making the choice to get a divorce being foolish and weak.

I will say I have seen some comments, but not threads/topics, about divorce that I don't agree with i.e. that it is the easy way out or that it is selfish and not thinking of the children. But never have I seen a topic about divorce the way I do with reconciliation.

Yeah, so maybe people do get defensive and rightly so. This site is about supporting each other, not condemning a whole groups choice.

POSTING AS A MEMBER:

For clarification,

There was a flag on this thread for generalizing. Members were pm’ed and asked to stop and as long as someone says “IMO” or “it looks like”, or even “most” when posting, it’s not generalizing. We are allowed to post our opinions.

Is this thread filled with helpful advice for the OP? Of course not. We know very little about this current turn of events for OP. Instead, we know a lot about how he feels about everyone else’s situation. And so that is what most responses are about. This thread is a wonderful example of why generalizing is against the rules. It polarizes the board, it’s rarely constructive for the thread starter and it creates bad feelings.

For myself, and many others here I’m sure, the sooner Skins stops posting about our marriages, the sooner he’ll get help navigating and processing his own.

Skins doesn't speak for me. I didn't even try R. Infidelity was an immediate deal breaker on my end, but I salute those who try to make it work.

To each his own.

I must admit that some face challenges in R that seem insurmountable. Even ghastly.

I chose to try and make it work. So far, I'm happy more often than i'm not. But this is still hell, and I certainly don't blame anyone who chooses to throw in the towel. After all, our WS' knew the potential outcome of their actions and decided to do it anyway.

As long as he's being faithful and a good H, I'm willing to stay. But I don't take a backseat to anything anymore, and if I decide I'm done, then I'm done, and I don't think anyone would blame me for that.

OP, I understand and respect your choice. I wish you a happier life from now on.

Is this thread filled with helpful advice for the OP? Of course not. We know very little about this current turn of events for OP. Instead, we know a lot about how he feels about everyone else’s situation. And so that is what most responses are about. This thread is a wonderful example of why generalizing is against the rules. It polarizes the board, it’s rarely constructive for the thread starter and it creates bad feelings.

First of all I do think that there is a lot of great advice in this thread. I see many people supporting my line of thinking.

Question to you: Would you rather stay with your WS and try to R but still struggle with mind movies, negative thought loops, daily triggers and thoughts of AP during sex even 5 years after DD or..... start the process of emotionally detaching right after DD, do the complete 180, separate/divorce and be free from the source of your pain and have most of those thoughts and feelings disappear and be generally happy only after a year or 2 instead?

For myself, and many others here I’m sure, the sooner Skins stops posting about our marriages, the sooner he’ll get help navigating and processing his own.

I have the help I need in processing the end of my marriage. I agree that I should have seen the IC immediately instead of going to MC. My IC definitely thinks D is the way to go and is 100% supportive in that choice. She is guiding me through this rough patch toward my new found freedom. She is going to be coaching me in getting to the great new life I deserve.

Update: WW is now using sex to try and manipulate me into giving her more money in the divorce!!!!

Sunday she jumps me coming of the shower for sex. Monday at dinner in a restaurant she demands I pay for her CC bills and car in the D settlement. She completely ambushed me.

DO NOT Reconcile with cheaters. They lie, manipulate and deceive. They are selfish, greedy, mentally insecure people.

RUN away from cheaters as fast as you can. GET THE FUCK OUT!!!!!!

THIS IS A WARNING. The longer you stay with a cheater the more damage they cause to your mental health and life long happiness.

Why are you staying with a cheater?

Why are you having dinner in a restaurant with your ex-wife?

Why use the house as an excuse?

Update: WW is now using sex to try and manipulate me into giving her more money in the divorce!!!!

Sunday she jumps me coming of the shower for sex. Monday at dinner in a restaurant she demands I pay for her CC bills and car in the D settlement. She completely ambushed me.

DO NOT Reconcile with cheaters. They lie, manipulate and deceive. They are selfish, greedy, mentally insecure people.

RUN away from cheaters as fast as you can. GET THE FUCK OUT!!!!!!

THIS IS A WARNING. The longer you stay with a cheater the more damage they cause to your mental health and life long happiness.

skins21, it doesn't seem that you have detached if you are still having sex and going out to dinner.

Why are you staying with a cheater?

I'm not staying. I'm applying for my own condo today and scheduling a mediation meeting ASAP.

Why are you having dinner in a restaurant with your ex-wife?

She isn't my EX yet, we are still in the house until it sells or we move into new places. We still eat dinner together most nights. I'm trying to stay amicable with her but I do need to stop. My therapist told me this morning to avoid her like the plague.

Why use the house as an excuse?

Excuse for what? Still living together, still eating meals together? I'm still working on detaching from her emotionally. I've avoided touching and kissing her for the past week until she jumped me when I got out of the shower. I guess I caved and had a moment of weakness. I still have needs to and I don't have anyone else right now. But yeah, now I know she is using sex a weapon to get what she wants. I just didn't think she was like that but maybe I was too blinded to see it before.

Excuse for what? Still living together, still eating meals together? I'm still working on detaching from her emotionally. I've avoided touching and kissing her for the past week until she jumped me when I got out of the shower. I guess I caved and had a moment of weakness. I still have needs to and I don't have anyone else right now.

In essence, you are advising people to do what you haven't done.

Question to you: Would you rather stay with your WS and try to R but still struggle with mind movies, negative thought loops, daily triggers and thoughts of AP during sex even 5 years after DD or..... start the process of emotionally detaching right after DD, do the complete 180, separate/divorce and be free from the source of your pain and have most of those thoughts and feelings disappear and be generally happy only after a year or 2 instead?

I'd rather stay. And that’s exactly what I did.

See I made a calculated decision. I knew (or thought I knew) my wife and we were happy and in love for 25+ years. Would I be happier with her or without her in my life IF she was willing and able to work her ass off to address her issues and become a healthier person? Is it worth all the pain you described if that has a shot and I wouldn’t have to break up my family as well? My answer was and still is, absolutely.

(Btw, I’m not a big fan of the “our marriage is better than it ever was” line of thinking, but I think my wife is a healthier person and our communication skills are better, and we are living more authentic lives)

I do not regret my choice. I can always take a different path if she stops working on being the person she really can be. Could I be happier if i divorced her? Who knows? In my mind that’s trading one type of pain for another. Some people D and find happiness. Others don’t. There are no guarantees in life as every BS here knows all too well.

Last thought: I stayed and it was probably the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life. You’re right, to heal with the source of pain is tough. To work through it and not throw in the towel despite the triggers and mind movies because you value what you had and what you could have is far from easy. You may call me weak for staying. I’ve discovered I have an inner strength I never knew existed until now. Because I have been tested and I am still standing. I don’t call people who D cowards who can’t take the heat and run home to mommy. I’d ask you afford those who R the same courtesy. Neither choice is an either or. Both are understandable and right for the folks who choose them.

I’m sorry your WW is causing you so much pain.

In essence, you are advising people to do what you haven't done.

Exactly, I tried to R instead of doing the 180 immediately and detaching emotionally. That's the first thing all BS should do. From there planning your exit plan is much easier because you are thinking logically.

I'm still wrapped up emotionally because I never stopped loving her and it's hard to do that even now, even when I know it's the right thing to do.

It's why I decided after a year to finally get IC. She's the one who's helping me navigate this exit and stay focused on the plan.

Doing the 180, getting into IC and leaning on your friends and family for support as you leave your M is the best way to get out of infidelity. I made mistakes along the way and if I can show people the pitfalls to avoid and get them healed quicker then that's valuable information for many BSs.

Would you rather stay with your WS and try to R but still struggle with mind movies, negative thought loops, daily triggers and thoughts of AP during sex even 5 years after DD or..... start the process of emotionally detaching right after DD, do the complete 180, separate/divorce and be free from the source of your pain and have most of those thoughts and feelings disappear and be generally happy only after a year or 2 instead?

That's a false choice, skins. There are many options, not just 2.

Those mind movies, negative thoughts, triggers, thoughts of AP during sex are your problems to solve. They're in you. Yes, they're in you because your W cheated, but you're the only one who can stop them.

Yes, it's strange to stay with the source of the pain, but in R - when both partners do the work - the source of the pain is also a source of support. If you accept and process the pain, you get the support, and that allows you to accept and process even more pain. If you D, you are on your own. Your guess of 'a year or two' may prove to be optimistic.

Alone is usually far better than staying with an unremorseful WS, but if you do find a new person, you're taking a significant chance that the new person will cheat. IMO, a WS who does the necessary work will be far less vulnerable to cheating again than any random new person. Again, that's JMO.

You made a wrong choice in choosing to R. Now, in pain, you have apparently decided to D, and you've decided R can never work. IIRC, you're in finance. I see the SPX is down 0.77% for today, as of a few minutes ago. Saying the your one case proves it's useless to R is the same as saying the S&P will hit zero in the next 130 trading hours.

Your assertion that everyone should dump his WS is just plain bad advice.

If you really want to help BSes, I urge you to help them figure out what's best for them in their individual situations. I know you've paid lip service to that concept a few times, but post like you believe it - because this is true: sometimes D is the best choice; sometimes R is the best choice; sometimes waiting is the best choice.

[This message edited by sisoon at 9:56 AM, April 4th (Wednesday)]

Doing the 180, getting into IC and leaning on your friends and family for support as you leave your M is the best way to get out of infidelity.

You believe in retrospect that it would have been the best way for you to get out of infidelity. And it likely is the best path when you have a WS that not remorseful, repentant and still cheating.

Everyone's path to getting out of infidelity is different. Even if we end up divorcing, I will never regret working on reconciliation. My faith has deepened and I understand me so much more. My WH was the one who encouraged me to get IC. And I was quite insulted by the suggestion. But it was a good thing for me.

Divorce is only one path to getting out of/surviving infidelity. My first post here was in the divorce/separation forum. Each person has to evaluate their situation and decide what path is best for them.

I wish you well in your journey skins21.You don't have to stop loving your WW. You do have to love yourself enough to refuse to allow another person to mistreat you.

[This message edited by northeasternarea at 9:54 AM, April 4th (Wednesday)]

Skins21,

You don't know me.

You don't know what I went through. You don't know my pain, or my suffering, or the danger i put MYSELF in when I did what I did. You don't know the state of my marriage. You don't know anything about me, my H, or my life.

Your advice is not actually advice is it? because advice is given, after gaining knowledge about a situation.

Since you only know about your life, your W, the state of your marriage, and your pain, how can you possibly advise ME, or my H, or anyone else here? How can you throw around something as permanent and life changing as "DIVORCE THE SCUMBAG" without knowing more information about peoples lives?

That is extremely irresponsible of you and could possibly hurt way more people, including BH and BW and WW and WH, and even worse, CHILDREN, whose lives can be put together.

You don't know about anyone elses life but your own, and what people may post here.

Either listen to peoples words, and respond with advice to them, basing it on YOUR experiences, or don't. Thats how it works on a board like this. (and in life)

What you are doing here is wrong, and its self-centered, and based entirely on the experiences of YOUR life.

Stop trying to bully people into conforming to your limited, small vision and experience.

Yes Im a cheater, yep thats me. I did it. Yes I did.

But I am nothing like what you write. I never was, and I never will be.

What I WAS was suffering from post-partum depression from a painful miscarriage, in a painfully horrible marriage, with many life stressors. Which I dealt with poorly.

But the loss of my unborn child, and the pain it caused me, and my H, and my family, and the pain I then caused because of my choices, does NOT make me a lying cheating scumbag.

And you are wrong for saying it. And you owe people here an apology for your generalizations. These people continuously try and help you, and you are being a very rude guest on this site.

Also, if you don't like what I wrote, thats okay too, because it is my opinion, based on my experience, and based on what I read, from your posts. Thats how advice works. Try it. You won't blow up nor would you be lesser if you just back down and try and see what these fine people have been trying to show you.

But stop telling me that Im a scumbag. I lost a child and I dealt with it very very badly. And now, after reading YOUR words and your position and insistence that i AM these things, and that my H should have left me on the spot, I am in tears and I am in pain.

Do you feel better now?