SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You have been so wonderful from the start. I think your thread should be a bullseye post, an example of what to do when one just finds out. I have a feeling it will be pointed out as an example to newbies just as much as Space Ghost's is.

And I also think your plan going forward is ideal.

Others before me have already offered excellent perspectives on his last email. I think Ilovejoes's post is especially perceptive...on how unwilling he was to end the relationship despite multiple incentives to do so.

Just one additional issue: Bob's knowing made everything worse in my view. HOW he knew also bothers me. I'd assumed all along that your H confided in Bob. That would be bad enough- his motives would have to be questionable. Eg was he boasting? Or truly wanting Bob's help to stop- help which he then completely ignored?

So telling Bob would have been bad enough. Bob finding out on his own seems worse to me. Just having the affair is sickening. Doing it in a way that someone else found out before you is really disrespectful.

I'm really sorry, TOC. He's lost (or seriously risked losing) someone very special. Unbearable and painful though it is, I'm so glad you found out. I wish you steady healing- and balm for body, mind and soul.

ETA: edited in view of whenwillitstop's post below.

[This message edited by looking4thesun at 8:04 AM, September 22nd (Thursday)]

TOC -- his email (which was pure unmitigated drivel) really pissed me off. He was looking forward to screwing his side piece up until his plane took off to London, would probably text her while you were on your vacation together, and continue to screw her after you got back. The only reason the affair stopped (if it has) is because he got caught. He and Candy are both morally bankrupt and neither has an ounce of character between them. You have an amazing support system; your friends and family have all flocked around you and circled the wagons. You must be a wonderful friend to have all these people who are so willing to help you. I doubt your husband can say the same. You have found strength through debilitating pain. I am so sorry you are hurting.

I'm giving you a standing ovation at this very moment. Bra-freaking-vo! Seriously you did so well with that, I am your biggest fan.

He doesn't know why he did it...he WANTED to. That's all that matters. That's the only answer you need.

Keep holding strong. You are amazing.

Sincerely,

Your biggest fan :)

Reading his letter reminded me of the "old fool" character played by Alan Rickman in the movie "Love, Actually". (Horrible film, by the way, when you think about it after going through infidelity. )

I am sorry you are going through this.

[This message edited by Ginny at 7:34 AM, September 22nd (Thursday)]

Looking4htesun -

'So telling him would have been bad enough, but Bob finding out on his own is worse. It means he was out there with her in public, risking further humiliation for you - friends/acquaintances could have spotted them just as Bob did.'

Any humiliation should reside squarely on HIS shoulders.

Lots of "I LOVE you's" in that message. Made me think of this:

williteverstop: thank you, I stand corrected. I edited my post to reflect this.

'

TOC,

In terms of men wanting to be needed:

I am a 53 year old professional woman. Like you, I am fucking awesome. Unlike you, my H and I have been together since I was a fucking awesome 21 year old. Even then I was strong and independent. He chose me. As the years wore on I learned that I could not count on him emotionally. I had "needs" but he could not fill them. Once when I needed help with a flat tire so that I could pick up our kids he rushed home angrily and left saying "I hope you don't expect me to always rescue you!" (ouch!--I got AAA the next day). I became even more independent.

His OW was inferior to me in every way, and he knew it the whole time. She did "need" him and he was happy to be the professional mentor she wanted. That was a need he was comfortable with; professional advice. (and he would occasionally fill her sexual needs as well of course--what a good guy!) But it was never about her. It was always about his ego. She could have been anyone. And when her needs became more emotional he backed away from her as well.

So I personally wouldn't put too much stock in that needy thing.

I suspect it was ego, ego, ego. New woman wants me! Aren't I the shit.

You are the prize.

I was thinking the same thing as antlered's meme. does he even know what love means? loving someone means you don't hurt them.

Hi TOC, hope you are ok. Don't expect you will have much time to read all the replies you have received. You are so awesome and such an inspiration to me, and I am sure many other people.

The email you posted from your WH sounds so much like the standard bull sh&$ (I would use BS, but that is already taken) from the WS. It's so similar to the shite I heard from my WW it is unbelievable. He is just looking out for himself at the moment, I urge you not to believe a word of it. He is shitting himself and is in self preservation mode. There is no remorse there, just regret that he has been caught.

Stay strong, do what you want to do and make sure you are happy. I am sure when I say that everyone here on SI has your back.

[This message edited by RoburCordis at 8:31 AM, September 22nd (Thursday)]

TOC, wow, that letter sounds so false - there isn't actually any shame there at all; its more like he's bravely standing there with jaw jut out, declaring in his heart he always loved you... But here's the thing:

Someone who truly loves someone would puke at the thought of fucking a convenient twat. Its about the respect one is supposed to feel for their lover; its about desiring to celebrate their lover every single day.

I've tried to edit down this post because I know I am triggering alot reading about your situ and from reading your WS's crocodile tears on the page type of email.

But honey, they usually affair down. Maybe your girlfriend is right, that men need to be needed, but the assholes among them also get a little bit emasculated by a strong confident woman - which was exactly what they signed up for when they married, but go figure. You're a smart, professional woman, obviously managing significant job responsibilities, on the go for international work ( and yes, I know from experience its not all its cracked up to be, but from the outside its enviable). We know that you are confident, and its clear that who you are overall is well loved and valued by your friends and family. And your WS probably appeared to admire all of that - maybe even bragged a bit to his friends.

Yeah, mine did that too.

PuppyWalker is a loser. Yeah yeah, she started a business - doing the only thing she is obviously capable of. She's a single mom so there is some experience she had of having a relationship breakdown, and so she knows of that sadness - yet felt nothing about setting you up to feel that pain. She knew you personally; in these past four months that she's welcomed WS "in" her she has seen you, talked to you, KNOWN what she was doing to you... you think she wasn't walking away from each encounter with a smartass little cat-got-the-cream grin? You know, that despite all you are, she must be something if she got WS? This wasn't a situ where OW could be led on to think WS was unhappy in his marriage, blah blah blah.

I apologize if this is coming out hard but it is another aspect of this whole shitstorm, and you are now thinking about her because you found out who she was. Yes WS is TOTALLY responsible for his smug self-satisfaction that he could have a mistress. But PuppyWalker is a different kind of evil.

There are a lot of people here who will say that we shouldn't focus on the OW, that it is our WS's who hold all the responsibility/fault. I'm not one of them, but thats because I had the added blessing/curse of knowing how the OW in my nightmare rather enjoyed how she was screwing me while she was screwing my WS. Given that, I guess you could say I have a bias about this, but Puppy Walker's own "why" might have been that she got some kick out of getting one over on you. It sucks to think that a woman could do this to another woman, but we know that they exist and that they do.

Both WS and PuppyWalker didn't get "caught up in the emotion" -- the scum knew exactly what they were doing on every level.

I am so very sorry that you had to experience this all, but as I've written before, you are my absolute hero. I should have done *exactly* what you did, and because I didnt, I'm paying a price. TOC, you are amazing, and even if you can't see it now, just accept that all the praise your friends, family, and all your brother and sister on SI are heaping upon you is absolutely well deserved. You know who you are -- and by cracky, you are reminding WS, who obviously forgot all he ever knew about the prize he once had.

I am sorry your wh made these poor choices. Everything pretty much has been said.

One thing that strikes me is his why. My impression is he had some type of day free time. It seems more of a opportunity was there in a down time. Defining down time as just regular life.

As a stay at home mom I do interact with the opposite sex. There could be opportunity on any day. Especially just carrying out daily life, with my child, my pets etc. Reading not just friends by shirley glass, after our d day, made it clear to me how easy it would be to slip into a ea or a pa.

My point is the explanation and his letter, the emotion he had about the affair was the addiction of the flirt, the ego kibbles, the excitment of the whole thing. Does that make it in any way acceptable, no. However, it makes sense to me.

With all the choices and constant need for stimulation in todays society, I believe people forget just daily life is okay. It allows us the time to appreciate the great things that happen and sadness as well. All these false expectations of every minute should be exciting and fulfilling are not real. It can be fulfilling to work but sometimes work is just work.

Sorry dont mean to pontificate, just trying to give another perspective.

Another point is remember there is regret at getting caught and remorse at having done it. I see shades of both. However, if he was truly remorseful he would have ended it when bob called him out.

That isnt to say that he doesnt have some remorse now.

While i applaud your strong response, please remember it is okay to change your mind. I would suggest you get some individual therapy, to ensure you process this with a neutral party.

[This message edited by PricklePatch at 9:22 AM, September 22nd (Thursday)]

At 4 yrs out I have a lot of experience with the "why".

"men need to be needed and you aren't needy. OW probably was. Stupid reason but why the hell else would he do something so stupid?"

That just about sums it up. You already know the rest. Selfishness. Maybe some entitlement for some. He did it because he wanted to and he could because of his character. His ego boost was worth more than you. He valued his ego more than anything in life. It is sad. What a person is willing to do to themselves to get an ego boost. When in retrospect they destroy themselves in the process and are worse off than when they started. Pathetic really. Washing away everything good and sincere and replacing it with poison in their life. I still can't believe how self-destructive people can be. Delusional really. To think the outcome could ever be a good one. With all the examples in society of infidelity gone wrong. These people still believe they are the exception to the norm. He took you for granted. People like that often do when they value those around them as objects to fulfill their needs, wants, and desires.

As far as love. That depends upon your definition of love. I would not let him get away with claiming he loved you one more minute if his definition of love was not what you felt. I have no doubt he loved you before the affair. I have no doubt he loved you to himself during the affair. Perhaps an object love. There was nothing loving about his actions. Nip that in the bud the next time he mentions it. See if he can at least own that. I also would not allow him to continue to claim he just got lost in the moment. That is a lie. He is refusing to see himself and his actions. He deliberately chose to have this affair. He decided how much risk to take. Right now he is realizing he gambled too much. He is regretful right now because it is all about what he lost. He probably does feel shame for hurting you. However, it over shadowed by the fact that you hurting resulted in you leaving. It isn't just because he hurt you.

I wish you some respite on your retreat and so much peace and serenity. You truly are blessed to have such a loving circle of friends and family to support you. It speaks volumes of what he lost.

Antlered: I love it. We watch that movie often. I will never be able to look at it the same way.

Amazingyetlost: I have come to the conclusion that men that cheat marry strong so that they don't have to work for themselves. Marry the strong independent ones. They benefit and reap the harvest of our maturity and work ethics. We are safe. For my husband it also meant the escape of weak and needy imprinted by his mother. He didn't want to marry his mother. He didn't want to be stuck for the rest of his life with someone like her. He married the complete opposite. Then, he cheated with the women like his mother to feel needed and get his ego boosts. The easy ones. The desperate. The ones that would not hold him accountable. The ones that would not push him to the limit to better himself. The ones that would accept the worse version of himself he could possibly be and find it acceptable because they value themselves so little. The immature (but to the wayward they are carefree). The ones that require no work to please and are easily bought. The "yes sir" types. They are cake eaters. They want both in their lives. We all feed their ego's in different ways. The OW just mirrors them so that they can look into their eyes and behold themselves in all their uncontested glory. (BTW I stole that line from my husband).

Hey TOC,

So glad you are going to take some time away and relax. One of the side benefits of the way you handled it was it really does tie things up so can put this whole ordeal into perspective as done and done right just as soon as the divorce papers are filed.

For what it's worth, his letter does seem genuinely contrite. I know there is commentary about it being all about him but it seems that is him trying to respond to your questions about where his head was (in addition to being up his ass). I agree he has no idea of his Whys and he isn't writing about what he needs to fix in himself but that seems more that he is just in a panic fugue.

I think you are doing great, and again because of the way you persevered through an incredibly tough week you can choose to let all this go now for just a bit and center yourself. He on the other hand gets to stew in pain. Sorry, but I am very glad for his pain.

I know that this is Act I, and Act II's are usually messy... you won't get the clarity you need for the long term overthinking this now; let it go, let him stew, and come back ready to more forward with what is best for you and your own happiness. You get this chance at a reset, to actively pursue your own happiness above all others, and that is a hard won gift to yourself.

You could not have done better -- enjoy a victory lap in the spa pool!

^This^

SpokenFor summed up my thoughts on this very well, so I'll leave it at that.

This is a horrible story and just like mine. I go to Calistoga often; its beautiful; enjoy it and never look back at your STBX WH. What an ass!

I too am a strong independent financially sound professional woman with my career booming and my guy over the last 12 years has devolved to the point where he is an unemployed idiot who does not plan to work and mocks my "corporate 9-5 prison". This remark while screwing my friend and hitting me up to get an equity line to pay off his debts so he can afford to move out and become a day trader. Apparently one day he will laugh at me as he goes by in his Porsche GT3. HA

I'm just hoping I don't have to pay him too much child support for what my lawyer says will likely be only 20% custody for him.

Anyhow - I relate entirely. Drop this dude like a hot potato and let him enjoy his cheap Candie. What is that stuff they sell as CVS? Russell Stover. His loss.

"Candie," how cheesy is that? I felt the same way about my cheating wife's paramour's name, "Rod." Uh. Really? What's the last name, "Cliche?"

My take on the email was that he's sincere in his panic.

I am concerned that he kept the affair going after the friend caught him. MAYBE he thought about ending it at that point, but note that he gave in to temptation rather than end it.

If that's the case, I don't think you can trust him much at this point.

Why do you think he is trying to hang on and salvage the marriage instead of saying. "I'm caught, I totally f-d up and I accept the consequence." You did say at the beginning that HE always said an affair would be a deal-breaker, so why is he begging you to take him back?

I'm curious, would you go into counseling with him?

I'm thinking that a big difference in our stories is that your spouse admits he messed up and is trying to save the marriage. My spouse says she messed up but it was sorta ok because she wanted out anyway.

The dog-walker, I'm thinking, saw a well-off older man she could ensnare, maybe marry to help raise her child and give her the sort of life you have.