SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I think OM was Plan A. Wedding BJ guy Plan B. And I am Plan C in her mind.

Dude , when are you going to get this divorce going ?

I need better people in my life.

How does a man at my age have absolutely no friends to confide in? Outwardly there is nothing strange or unusual about me. I do not have odd mannerisms nor am I particularly hard to look at. I tend to give others sound advice. I listen well. I am not stupid about the world and can have meaningful conversations with people.

I am a Nice Guy for sure. I don’t open up well and care desperately what others think of me but pretend not to. I certainly have baggage. But how is it that after all this time in my life I have absolutely no friends whom I can count on?

That is probably a good question for my therapist and not this forum.

There is a point to this rambling though.

I have a close relative, let’s call her Cookie, who I have known my whole life. Cookie and I have been through tough times together. I have always tried to be there for her when she had trouble and she has been there for me in the past.

But Cookie has a big mouth. And Cookie is very focused on Cookie. When you talk with Cookie about your problems, she always has a way to bring them back to her and her experience. You see everything is about Cookie.

I have been really wanting to speak to people in person about all of this shit though.

I see my therapist once a week or so and that is great.

But I need more deep human contact and connection than just that. So I thought about talking to Cookie. She is not my first choice to talk to about this stuff. Really my only choice. Other than you wonderful people.

So today I did. She went out of her way to come talk to me. I spilled the whole story. I needed to get it off my chest. I need to talk about how I feel to someone other than my therapist or my wife!

And what happened?

No surprise here.

Cookie was cookie. She listened. She sympathized. She made excuses for my wife (while saying, “but I’m not excusing her behavior”.) And then she brought it back to her experiences. Her husband cheated on her years ago so I thought she would be able to give me what I needed in the conversation. For her to shut up and listen and understand what I am going through. Instead, she kept turning the conversation to what we were having for dinner. (like I care!) and whether I wanted dessert.

A huge let down.

I know she means well. I appreciate her going out of her way to talk to me. I appreciate her trying to give me advice. But it was so unsatisfying.

I think I want someone to rage with me and tell me that my wife is a bitch and a horrible person for doing what she did and to be as outraged and angry about it as I am. She could not do that. She did not know to do that.

I facetimed with my boy tonight.

My wife and son are at her sisters house. I am of course away working. They were all laughing and seemed to be having a jolly good time in the background.

Sickening.

I need to make some friends.

And Gary, I have asked her to tell her family. Supposedly she is going to this weekend. I don’t think they are really going to care. Even though she said she would tell them what happened from my point of view, I don’t think its going to matter. She will be the victim and I the evil husband. It should make Christmas interesting this year.

The other thing that I can say Gary. Is that if and when we divorce, she will find another man in weeks. She is pretty and looks young. And she looks very vulnerable and knows how to manipulate men easily. She is a master at that. I think that is another thing that bothers me. She will find someone else immediately. It will take me a lot longer. But again, I am starting to care less and less about that. And I have to get my own shit in order before I get into any other relationship anyway. No more of this insanity in my life. Ever.

Yeah Mouthkeepshut, people in my family are pretty messed up from when we were kids mostly likely. So everyone is a little crazy and not terribly happy overall. So seeing a sibling or someone else suffer just makes people think that their own lives are better. I wish it wasn't this way, but that is the way it has always been.

Treborwi, I hear you. Your family sounds wonderful. In one sense mine is similar. We never talk about personal issues. In my opinion its a fault for us. I always wish I was part of a family that openly loved one another, was close, and shared stuff. But we are all distant, cold, and closed with one another. A damn shame.

Thanks for your thoughts Widower. I would like to think that compartmentalization had something to do with it. But sometimes I am not sure. She has not convinced me that I am not just and ATM to her. And yes, I have been reading lots of other threads here. So much heartache. These selfish assholes have no idea what they are doing to people whom the are supposed to love and care for. They are so stupid. And many of the stories are so similar. Its really heartbreaking.

I think you are spot on as usual wk. Except its clear that MANY guys want her. Most probably just to use her. She doesn't realize that. But many would want her. I really loved her even with all her flaws. But before there is any chance at R she will have to prove herself to my satisfaction (which she may never be able to do) and I have to work on myself.

And ivehadit. believe me I hear you. When I read other threads I think the same thing, i.e. what the fuck is wrong with this guy/girl? Why doesn’t her or she just…

I know. I know what you are thinking. And I appreciate your sentiment. Thank you for taking an interest in my situation.

Ok end of rant for now.

Grizz, reading your posts make me think that a modern classics like "7 Habits" by Stephen Covey would help you a great deal better than Seneca's stoicism. Have you heard about Eisenhower matrix? Have you read about people trapped in a so called "Quadrant 1"? You are one of these trapped people, and you need to stop this pattern of endless urgent commitments.

grizzly, has your wife shown any signs of such behaviour in the past. Has she been flirty, interested in other men, disrespectful in any way ?

It is clear that she is not into this marriage. This is very clear. The marriage is a means for her to

* have a child (satisfy her biological clock AND keep you busy)

* have financial support so she can enjoy her life at your expense

* have an adventurous and fulfilling (for her) sex life with other partners (I say partners instead of men because it won't be long before her white knight lesbo friend makes a move on her)

It is also clear that she is an accomplished and remorseless liar and will say anything to keep you under control.

Also the incident with the cops is a good indication to you of what can go down when she plans with others to take you out if you do get nasty about things.

So … you need to wake up and smell the dogshit!

SHE DOES NOT LOVE YOU - I DON'T THINK THAT PRETTY LITTLE FRAIL HER KNOWS HOW TO LOVE!

SHE IS LYING TO YOU AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO!

SHE HAS A NETWORK OF SUPPORT THAT CAN BE LETHAL TO YOU!

SHE PREFERRED SEX WITH THE OM AND THERE WILL BE OTHERS! I SOMEHOW DONT THINK THIS WAS HER FIRST RODEO ANYWAY.

You need to protect yourself asap. At the moment you appear to be treading water (wasting time in real terms). This can be very costly to you. By the time you snap out of this could well be too late with her taking you for everything you have got, you having minimal access to your son, and both of them shacked up with some other piece of shit! Get an attorney and get the ball rolling. Split your finances and do the 180 properly. Keep monitoring and spying on her till this is all over. And pull the plug - get the D underway asap.

Wake up grizzly!

if and when we divorce, she will find another man in weeks.

She is pretty and looks young.

She will find someone else immediately. It will take me a lot longer.

Grizzly, I can understand your sense of betrayal and sadness over her ability to rebound, but consider this. She will be able to easily attract a man, but she wont be able to hold on to him. Attraction is only the first step in finding a true love and there are many steps beyond that. Her actions tell you that she wont be able to hold the course and equally, men tend to use attractive women and throw them away.

Griz,

The other thing that I can say Gary. Is that if and when we divorce, she will find another man in weeks.

She's already done that anyway!!!

if and when we divorce, she will find another man in weeks.

She is pretty and looks young.

She will find someone else immediately. It will take me a lot longer.

Also, think about the quality of guy she would be getting. Most likely she isn't going to get a guy that would treat her any where close to how you have treated her...but will she expect it? Yes. Will she be faithful? No..

You on the other hand will focus on healing and your son and find someone of quality that appreciates you and all you have to offer. It's not that you can't find a girl next week it's that you have standards and are going to be wary.

The BS's self esteem always takes a hit because they have stayed faithful, and done everything possible for the marriage only to be cheated on. The WW is the one that's broken, not you.

I've got a male friend that felt the same way as you did. When he was ready he did one of those dating websites. (He has thee kids that are older, smart, hard working, family man) He was very picky, did a lot of one time dates, then would go out with someone for a few dates... and finally he has met someone great.

If you are really worried about this check out the men only thread on the I can realate topic.

if and when we divorce, she will find another man in weeks.

She is pretty and looks young.

She will find someone else immediately.

This is still your self-esteem talking. It's understandable. If the two of you did divorce, yes, she will eventually enter another relationship. And if she KNEW in her heart that the biggest mistake she ever made was losing you---then that would make things a little less bitter to swallow. BUT, if she goes on like it was not soul-shattering, and her thoughts of grizzly eventually fade more and more in her new and 'happy' life, then it is one of the biggest blows that your ego can take.

We want to be that special person. Part of happiness that we have in ourselves is knowing that we are special in our partners minds and hearts. Knowing that we were chosen above all others. And that isn't necessarily unhealthy ego stroking; we expect that feeling to be reciprocal.

It is amazing what some real empathy could do to get us through this shit.

When you talk with Cookie about your problems, she always has a way to bring them back to her and her experience. You see everything is about Cookie.

I'm curious, is your WW like this as well? Was she very approachable to you when you first met her and you were able to confide in her? If so, did your WW also turn those conversation back to her and made it all about her?

As for her rebound dating, all I would look at is if her coping mechanism on dealing with insecurity and lack of happiness has changed. If she goes right back to the "you go" girls and starts dating again then you know her claims of wanting to change her ways and be a better person were all a sham, both to you and herself. You would dodge fake R. However, if she did not date after D, got a job, focused on self improvement, started earning your respect for her, then perhaps that is something worth paying attention to for consistency. There are members here who have gotten back together after D as well.

There are more than one path out of infidelity. YOU get to choose which one.

Grizz, I hear you with the thoughts on her easily moving on and you being alone. I know I though that and it has happened. But honestly try not to think about it as why would you want to be thinking or getting into another relationship with anyone now. This time is for you to heal.

My wife is vey manipulative and with her looks can use that to her advantage. She got a new bf very quickly and not even the guy she cheated on with me in fact. I was hurt she did but she is her problem now and will be dealing with her Princess ways soon. I have not even gone out on a date, have had offers but declined. I don't feel I am ready or its right. I need for me to get right before I get involved in that.

Yes its lonely and you will feel that too but it does help to focus on you. I might feel the void of being with someone but I have found it beneficial that for once in a long long time I am doing things for me. The other stuff will come in time.

How does a man at my age have absolutely no friends to confide in? Outwardly there is nothing strange or unusual about me. I do not have odd mannerisms nor am I particularly hard to look at. I tend to give others sound advice. I listen well. I am not stupid about the world and can have meaningful conversations with people.

Nice guy = codependent. You are a codependent. What you have done/are doing is actually pretty common. Reading NMMNG is a good start. From there, move on to Codependent No More by Melody Beattie.

Grizzly, I just want to give you the biggest hug ever. I don't understand. The good ones are always the one that gets hurt the most. Keep your head up. I know where you are, I had a endless stream of tears when I found out and I still cry like crazy. I pray that God give you the strength for you and your son.

what keeps you in this Grizzly ? Why do you accept such abuse ?

Why do you not listen to the people here ?

Griz,

I'm glad to hear your WW is getting a job. I think she had way too much time on her hands. I work full time, run a business on the side, raise two girls, cook, clean, etc. Therefore, I don't have much sympathy for your wife. She CAN do more. She just chooses not to.

As far as the rape comparison-I was raped in college by a stranger who broke into my apartment. It's definitely not the same-it's like comparing apples and oranges. However, there are similarities in feelings- shame, guilt, disgust, anger, and convincing yourself it's not about you.

I'm a BW going through R and it's by far the most difficult thing I've ever done. When I read your posts, I can relate to all your feelings. I think we all can. We've all felt the same things, questioned ourselves, and wondered what the next best step is.

Hang in there! Keep posting!

[This message edited by Writersblock122 at 11:28 AM, November 22nd (Tuesday)]

I am a Nice Guy for sure. I don’t open up well and care desperately what others think of me but pretend not to. I certainly have baggage. But how is it that after all this time in my life I have absolutely no friends whom I can count on?

Unfortunately, it is part of the package of being a Nice Guy. Being a nice guy ends up translating into being a magnet for self-centered people. It absolutely sucks.

I also came to the same realization within a few months after DDay, but additional time led me to additional insights. They may or may not apply to you, but I'll share in case you find it helpful...

1. The levels of betrayal deepened. It was first my wife. Then I found that those close to me were self-centered and that felt like a betrayal. Then I felt that I had betrayed myself by being a Nice Guy.

2. I dug in to why I was a Nice Guy and found the roots of it within my own FOO (family of origin). I had deeply held assumptions and beliefs based on my childhood experiences that were incorrect.

3. I dug further to find that my FOO caused me to believe that I wasn't worthwhile. The arc of my life followed that belief -- trying to gain love through being nice to others, yet only attracting those who used me and reinforced my belief that I wasn't worthwhile.

4. My wounds are very deep. I now see that, while I have been a nice guy, that it wasn't a very authentic way to love -- it was giving in order to get. So I not only haven't been able to feel loved, I haven't been able to love well. Layering on the fact that I find it difficult to trust anyone anymore makes this a very difficult situation.

I'm still working on my own healing and what I currently see is...

1. Being betrayed is a unique wound that many people don't understand. Finding help can be very difficult (thank God for this site).

2. It is a unique gift to be deeply empathetic and caring. There aren't a lot of people out there who have that capability, but they do exist. If you find one within your life, be very grateful.

3. The only thing I have control over is myself. I recognize and own the fact that I don't like where I am. I'm committed to pressing forward in my healing and in changing old habits. That has started with working on being thankful in order to see that I am worthwhile and then extended into finding people that I can trust.

I tell you all of this in the hope that you find it useful, that you see that you aren't alone and that you will sense that you are cared for and respected here.

Griz,

Like many commited spouses, you built your life around your partner and family. In the future you should consider broadening your relationships. I have no doubt you are a likable person. You will develop friendships as you move forward. Don't beat yourself up on this point.

Importantly, you seem to be getting a good grasp on your personal issues. This is huge in moving forward and rebuilding yourself. Many people get so caught up on the treadmill of blame, regret and anger that they fail to look inward.

You cannot influence your WW's attitudes and behavior

Regarding her future any more than you could her past.

What you can have huge influence on, is your own healing and future. Believe it or not, you may well see this horrible chapter in your life as a blessing in the future. Use this to help give you the impetus to be a better you. Conquer you FOO issues. However your future plays out. Be a better partner, father and person.

Crushed7,

I have read through a few of your responses. You appear to be working through your past with great wisdom, humility and grace. The world needs caring and thoughful people. Very much appreciate the insight and opinions of folks like yourself.

Concerned about you Griz.

Grizzly

Yes - if her priority is a man she will get one quickly. There are always men who are desperate.

My XW was not an attractive woman when I dumped her (we were mid-forties).

I was recently told (I hadn't asked) that once we split "nothing in trousers was safe from her". As far as I know she never had a stable relationship of any consequence and lives with a co-dependent relative, in a foreign country, in near poverty (can't afford a car etc.).

It was a couple of years before I met my current love, we've been together now c. 20 years, are financially stable and have a really good quality of life.

Hey Grizz,

I hear you about the friends thing. I have very few friends, but those that I do have are VERY good friends.

I don't have a lot of acquaintances. That's what most people have. I don't want that, and I certainly don't need it.

I am definitely an alpha-male, I'm very confident, outgoing, I succeed at most things I attempt, I'm smart, successful, slightly above the red on the ugly-o-meter, and I'm interested in a HUGE range of things. But... I'm a bit of a outsider. I always have been. I don't like "normal" stuff. I don't give two shits about the weather, the price of shit at Costco, how many K's my TV has, or weather my watch can tell me when someone has posted some inane garbage on Fakebook.

I'm attracted to smart, cynical, pessimists who TRULY don't care if people like them or the things they do. The problem is that there aren't many of us out there. But we are out there.

So, just be yourself. It's okay if you are indifferent to most people you meet. You're just being honest. Do the things you enjoy, the way you enjoy doing them and you'll find some kindred spirits.

You can't really force a friendship, but you can get out there and put yourself in the position to find it. So, get off yer ass and get out there!

Still pulling for you Grizzly.