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I'm spending the day with my son today. Here is a text I got from my wife:

I am at home, I finished the book that you recommended yesterday and today I'm finishing "after the affair". I am going to write about my intentions. I'm not trying to pretend everything is okay. I know it's not. I know the damage that I have caused between us. I know it may be too late, but I have hope that if both of us do some serious work on our own and together we can get through this and thrive as a couple. Thrive as a family. I know you have no reason to believe my words, because of the serious hurt and pain that I have caused you, but I deeply want the chance to show you that I love you and want our relationship to be as good as it can be. This has been a wake up call that I cannot go forward in life without facing how my past has impacted the person I am and the relationships that I have been in. I deeply regret that I have hurt you so much while acting out. You deserve a partner who treats you with respect and care, I regret spending that energy outside of our marriage and giving that attention to someone else. I regret not doing this work before I had a chance to hurt you so deeply. I know you feel so much pain and anger and sadness right now. I commit to you Griz, to make up for this hurt. To give you the care that you deserve. To be open and honest and communicate before and destruction occurs. I commit to doing the work to be honest with myself so that I can be a better partner to you and parent to our son. To have integrity in all that I do. I hope that someday you will be able to trust me again. I hope that my actions will help to give you a bit of comfort in this really horrible time.

(Sounds more like a legal declaration than a heartfelt text to me. Will respond to other posts when I'm able. I appreciate all the support and prayers. Thank you.)

There are a lot of "I" statements in there, but, I think that there need to be at some point.

Yes, it might sound stiff. She probably worked on it a while. It isn't a poor-me sobbing letter. It seems to be pretty accurate, actually.

Full disclosure, I would have been tickled pink to have gotten even that much from xwgf, so take me with that in mind.

There does need to be more there. That rarely happens overnight.

If you decide to try to rebuild then watch Actions, Not Words. Actions can be faked for a while but usually break down into old behaviors rather quickly if the words are false.

@devotedman

Here is more detail on the books I referenced...

"Getting the Love You Want: A Guide for Couples, 20th Anniversary Edition" Harville Hendrix (there is a book and, if you want, a workbook as well)

"Hold Me Tight: Seven Conversations for the Lifetime of Love" Sue Johnson

The words of her text certainly are hopeful. But, as devotedman advises, watch her actions. Her words might buy her some time, but it will be her heart (as seen through her attitude and actions) that demonstrates whether she is just trying to avoid losing you or if she really is becoming increasingly remorseful.

The text is a good start. Proceed with caution as they say.

Even if you decide to divorce at some point, her getting in the right frame of mind will help you co-parent.

Words are nice. Does this mean she's ready to give up her go girls? If not, her words don't mean a thing.

Grizzly, it's up to you. If you can be with her it does sound sincere. Like everyone here has stated, is her actions that count. I pray specifically for all 3 of you when I read your thread. Maybe she finally gets it. If she's reading, there's hope.

God bless you brother!

NOW is the time to ask for a written timeline.

Don't demand it; just tell her that it is one of the most important things that she can offer you at this point. It's up to you to decide how much explicit details are necessary, but if she is ready to 'shut up and put up', this would be my next step. Gage her level of cooperation/resistance. See if things make a little more sense with this in hand.

Definitely drop marriage counseling for now. There is way too much muck to muddle through right now. If you like your MC as an IC, then I would go that route. As for her IC? If you are uncomfortable with her, then at least express your concerns. Right now, it is really important to observe her actions. I, too, wasn't impressed with her text to you. It still seems like there are marriage issues of your doing that she feels need to be addressed....and this isn't going to fly. She has an enormous amount of work to do first.

Sounds more like a legal declaration than a heartfelt text to

I think this is because she read the book and is relaying what it told her to say. It probably sounds very different from her normal texts that came from just her... and thus the legal declaration feeling.

That said, it's not too bad...she is saying the right things...but it's words. She read the book which is a good start...but is she just writing what the book tells her? or does she really get what she has done and what you are feeling?

Regardless, she is trying. This is the time for actions. Is she able to say/write one thing but do another? for example can she write...

You deserve a partner who treats you with respect and care, I regret spending that energy outside of our marriage and giving that attention to someone else.

but say.. I will not get rid of the gogirls, I need their support. You are being controlling.

This would be spending energy and giving attention to people outside of the marriage (that hurt the marriage) and not helping gain back your trust.

Now is the time to test what she is saying. Did she take one of the jobs... or is she on a never ending interview tour using lot's of excuses for what she can't work? Will she write out timeline of all of her "missteps" and take a poly? or is that too far for her? Can she keep up being a committed wife and mother (attention on son and you) or will she go back to being on the phone, computer or out with friends in a couple of weeks.

I have to say you are at least seeing something from her which is a good start. I'm sure the confession about the BJ was straight from the book. That it told her how difficult TT are to over come... the question is if she told you everything or if that was the tip of the iceberg to see how you would react...

Again, even though she is showing some signs that she may be "getting it", you should still meet with a lawyer. See if you can get a free one hour consult and have your questions about the business ready.

Sorry you are going through this. I understand the deep emotional reaction it is normal. Someone you loved and trusted has just betrayed you and it to say it hurts is an understatement. I hope you are seeking counseling for yourself and then when you are able for both of you and your marriage. I would suggest your spouse seek counsel too. Remember you are not alone and what you feel is shock. I remember feeling distant and shut down at first, just numb from my toes to my head. Crying was actually a relief. I don't know what else to say. But , I think you need to talk to a counselor.

Griz,

You're going to know when she is showing remorse, by her actions and not the words.

She has to ditch the enabling bad friends. She has to take the initiative on finding out what was wrong that led her to the bad choices she made. She has to IC and dig deep for the reasons why. You have to have access to her phone and all online accounts -- you don't have to play detective, just be able to check when you feel like you need to.

You know how she has treated you before and you will know when she is serious about saving your M based again, on what she does everyday to try to earn your trust and a 'chance' at R.

A note is nice, but real change from her is required and needs to be visible on a daily basis.

Strength and prayers to you brother.

Griz, man I know the pain you are feeling and so do others on here. Really just take a step back and read what they are telling you. I too would balk at the advice and say to myself but I can make my situation different. Guess what, nope.

My wife immersed herself in a circle of friends that either condoned this behavior or made her to be the victim. "Its ok you cheated I mean your husband is working two jobs not spending every second with you. How could you not accept another man's advances". Problem is you are looking in a mirror and seeing what is wrong and what can be fixed. She looks in a mirror and sees perfection. You cant change crazy.

And I hate to say this but when a spouse does the things your wife and mine did its not a one time thing and you found this out. I thought my wife was in some fog but I too found out recently that she propositioned a friend of a friend. He turned her down but she made the move. Thank god the people here got me to wise up.

If I had stayed I be going thru this all over again. Don't punish yourself. But you really got to start living for you. My life is not that great but its mine alone and I don't have the sickness in my stomach worrying what am I to do with this woman. But the cancer out man.

Also Griz, I would say do your best for her not see your pain. If you gotta cry and weep do it alone or with someone that has your back. Stop letting her see you so distraught. Don't give her the ammo to make you feel worse or knowing her character probably use it as humor. My wife read my letters of wanting our marriage to work and pain and love to her friends drinking wine. Nice huh? Make her see nothing but a confident and doing ok Griz.

I think this is because she read the book and is relaying what it told her to say.

Exactly.

And more shit. Her therapist says our marriage therapist (who I actually kind of liked) is “crazy, creepy, and she would not recommend him to anyone.” I think for one therapist to be bad mouthing another is very unprofessional. But what the hell do I know. So my wife doesn't want us to see him anymore. And a seed of doubt has been planted in my mind about him now. How the hell can I get therapy or marriage counseling if our fucking counselors are bickering and shitting on one another? What the hell is wrong with the world?? So we have to find a new god damn MC now.

Bullshit. How convenient. This is a therapist she sees by herself so you cannot confirm the comment first hand. And you are right, a professional therapist would never say that about another. Don't you see? This is her way of lying to get out of going to counseling and putting it on you, "now we have to find a new counselor". Can you even confirm she is seeing an IC?

Re marriage #3 - believe me, we all feel like damaged goods whether it is #1 or #2 or whatever. You'd be surprised, they are women who have been put through the ringer just as you have. The sincere ones will see you as you are. I myself don't even know if I'd get married again, that piece of paper means so little to so many. But that doesn't mean there isn't a healthy long term relationship out there.

Your childhood is heartbreaking, my heart goes out to you. I'm sure that affects your choices in life. You have to get out. She does not respect you, she uses you, and it all goes back to being about her and her poor me's. You need to tell family what is going on, whatever their response may be. Stop protecting her actions. She is directing the whole show, who can know and who can't, who she will stay friends with no matter how you feel, what counselors you will and will not see, what jobs she will and will not take, what groups she will join, etc. It is valiant of you to try and save this, but this is not the relationship for that. She will break you. Cut your losses, start thinking about custody and what you would like that to look like.

I know this will take time, but start seeing yourself for the man you are. A stand up man. One who does anything for his family and works like a dog to support it. You deserve a PARTNER, someone who has your back, supports you, loves you, works as hard as you, and is your soft place to land. It is out there but first you need to work through all of this, spend time healing and listening to yourself and making you happy with just you. Then one day, the right person will come into your life and you will be healthy enough to recognize it while recognizing and rejecting the wrong ones.

Your son will be okay as well. It's hard but things will eventually work out. I'd start working towards full custody based on wife's instability.

Take care and remember in your darkest hours, you have people here who know and have felt your pain. You are not alone.

grizzly.

WW gave money to an EXBF. Is this the 'BJ at the wedding EXBF'?

Was this money ever repaid?

WW was phoning blowjob guy recently at 3am. It sounds as if she was setting up plan B. Perhaps you are plan B, or maybe plan C or D.

WW admits to contact with blowjob guy over several years. This really sounds like an ongoing A. I cannot believe that 1 BJ was all the sexual contact.

I am sorry to say this, but you should DNA test your son. As you seem to have an STD, you already know that WW has unprotected sex with APs.

As others have said, WW is a confirmed serial cheater. It is very likely that so far you have seem just the tip of the iceberg.

If you decide you need to D, no-one could blame you. In any event you need to see a lawyer, so that you understand just what D means in your location.

If you are considering R, a written timeline of all As from WW is vital. You then tell WW that she faces a polygraph and one question is whether the timeline is truthful and complete. Carpark confessions outside the polygraph office are common.

Next time you have access to WW's phone, check for the typical cheater apps such as Kik or 'words with friends'. Also check the deleted items folder, cheater apps are often installed then removed on a daily basis.

Continue with the VARs. Now she has been caught, WW may start cheating smarter.

Stay Strong.

Grizzly, got you on my mind today. What's going on?

I’m at the airport headed home after a business trip and I feel like I am going to cry. I am at the food court surrounded by travelers and tears are welling up in my eyes. Tears. I can’t break down here. They will take me to a nuthouse. Me crying. So hard to believe. I cried this morning when I prayed. I cried last night before bed.

And I want to cry again now. Me. I don’t cry. I haven’t shed a tear in years. And those tears were for my child being born, my wedding, the death of my mother. I would make fun of people who cried and were overly sensitive. Maybe that’s Karma.

And now I am a blubbering imbecile. I’m ok for a while and then tell myself how everything is going to be fine. That now I have pulled myself together. Now is the time for next steps. Now is the time to move forward. Have a plan.

And then it all goes to shit when I read a post on here or watch a TV commercial or walk by a neck massage place at the airport.

And then there is work. My work requires a tremendous amount of focus. You have to concentrate 100%. There is very little room for error. But I can’t concentrate. I am distracted. I am not at my best. I used to take a lot of pride in doing my job well. Now everything is dull and grey. I just go through the motions joylessly. Food is tasteless. I am returning from a beautiful city, but could care less about its attractions.

I spoke to my IC this past weekend before leaving on my business trip. I just went into his office and vented. I needed to badly. The time went by so quickly. It was a relief. For the rest of the month, we are planning to move to another town, will ramp up the business, and I will be changing my career. Anyone of those things is stressful. All of them happening simultaneously is a horror show. Add to that my wife’s infidelity and you can see the shit I am dealing with. Now on top of that, I have no one to talk to but my IC and I’ll have to get a new one closer to my new house. So much transition. So much going on in my life. It would all be so wonderful but for the infidelity. I have been working so hard for this transition for so long and now its all messed up. All of you on SI have been wonderful. I thank you again.

My IC suggests and I tend to agree that I just can’t handle all of this on my own. It’s too much. So he said it might be wise to just take my time. Let everything sink in. Move. Get settled. Work on the business. And reevaluate any serious decisions (D or R) when my life and state of mind are more stable. For now that is the best I can do. And that is the advice and course of action I am planning on. Maybe to my detriment.

I keep thinking about what someone wrote on here something to the effect that having anger and resentment is like drinking poison yourself and expecting someone else to die. I know that this misery is hurting me and only me. The rage, anger, and resentment I feel are doing me harm. And my fucking work schedule is also doing me harm. I am going back to the gym and going back to fighting as soon as my schedule allows in the next week or two.

This trip is the last obligation I have for the foreseeable future. I am going to tone it way the hell down in terms of travel and work. I think I will finally be able to start caring for myself a bit.

It’s so sad. I am home now. Trip was uneventful. Did some good reading on the plane. I read Seneca “On the shortness of Life”. Beautiful read.. I have also been reading some posts on SI. So sad. Those poor people. Stories so similar to my own. Some much worse, some marginally better if you can ever think of infidelity that way. And the drama unfolds. More new users. More shock. More trauma. Its like an endless stream of people falling into a well and crying out for help. So sad. My heart goes out to them all.

And then there is my own misery and personal hell. This morning I was perseverating. The thoughts were tumbling in my mind over and over again. I was literally torturing myself lying in bed. When I realized that I breathed and cried and then stopped doing it.

My wife is texting me now. Telling me where she is. What she is doing. That she is really motivated to change herself and make our marriage better.

I wonder how long that will last.

As for jobs, she said she is going to start at the beginning of the new year because of the tremendous transition we are going through right now. She is actually doing stuff. I am pretty shocked really to see that she seems capable of competent work and seems to be getting things done. I don’t know for sure. She could still be fucking her boyfriend (she claims no contact and denies any other shenanigans vociferously).

It seems like something in her snapped recently. That she awoke and realized what she did. That she finally sees how ugly she is as a person. I certainly don’t trust her as far as I could throw her though. I assume everything she says is at best partial truth.

I am starting to care less about her. I am trying to steel myself for the possibility that I will be divorced again. I am just trying to get through the days and fulfill my responsibilities.

Please don’t ask me about lawyers or VARs or surveillance. I simply don't have the energy. I just don’t. I genuinely appreciate your kind words and wishes and advice. But I am not ready for that yet. I’m sure you want to strangle me and shake me to my senses but I really have too much else on my plate that needs immediate attention.

I will attempt to answer some of your questions and very kind concerns.

About my son - he looks just like me. He is my boy. No doubt about it.

So often, I think about “letting her go”. What she did was beyond anything I could ever have imaged putting up with. But the fucking timing is so bad. I have to hang in there just a bit longer. If she so much as looks at another guy I am going to drop the fucking axe. I guess I am just biding my time. If she scan pull of a miracle and show me she is genuinely remorseful and can change, we might have a shot. Otherwise, I don’t think it looks very good. As you guys suggest, the decision is ultimately mine to make.

You are very right Crushed, just like your wife, my wife saw that I am a stable, loyal, person with motivation to make a life for himself. She latched onto me because she knew I would always be there for her. And I latched onto her because she made me feel needed and I like the idea of being a provider. From the safety and security I provided her, she went outside of the marriage in search of thrills and “ego kibbles” as you guys put it. That is absolutely the case. And I think she admits as much.

One of the things that is so hurtful and infuriating about all of this is how calculated it was. She PLANNED everything. The 9 month affair happened gradually but then was hidden and their meetings planned in advance. The BJ and meeting with her ex was in the works for months. I never thought she could be so calculating. She seems so sincere now. But she might just be a better con man since getting caught.

I am really curious if there is more shit she hasn't told me. At this point I don’t think I would be surprised if there was. She has zero credibility with me. I am starting to not care about her. There are 4.5 billion women in the world. Why the hell did I end up with one like her?

I have to do something about myself so if and when things fall apart in the marriage, I don’t end up with another d day by another woman in 5 years. I can’t keep attracting these types of woman and being in these idiot relationships.

I’m going to get and read those books you recommended Crushed. If nothing else, I am reading some great stuff (and listening to better music!) because of recommendations on here.

SpaceGhost. You are amazing. I just have to say that. I wish I had your cajones.

I have been away from home for the past several days and have not yet seen my wife. I will get a better feel for the gogirls and her overall attitude after being apart for a bit. We will see. She did agree to take a polygraph but how accurate are those things?

Farsidejunky, I think you are right. She is a serial cheater. I deserve a hell of a lot better.

And by the way I called the New Age MC and told him why we weren't going to be working with him anymore (ie my wife’s IC was badmouthing him). I told him very diplomatically. He was very appreciative. I think he deserved to know the truth and not some bullshit excuse.

Thanks for your advice Gary. You have been where I am now. I appreciate your kind words and support. I really do.

And thank you for thinking of me Wool.

Hugs to you all!

(((hugs))) right back at you.

Grizzly, your on my mind because your story resonates with me.

I ain't going to tell you what to do. It does sound as if your wife is finally trying. She reminds me of my wife.

I just ask her again for probably the thousandth time, why she wanted to come back to me. She says she didn't want to hurt me anymore.

I think the title of these post are dead on...Gutted...

I think it's a great time to see if she can prove herself.

I wonder how long that will last.

This was a question I had for my wife. My wife is the most impatient woman you'd ever want to meet. So I expected her sympathy to last a week or less, and when she dropped it, she was gonna get the axe.

You know what? She hasn't stopped caring and is being so patient with the healing. (Over 8 months and counting)

Thus is what I pray is happening to Mrs. Grizzly.

Whether it's too late, that's up to you.

Nobody deserves this, but you will or have realized how strong you really are. I'll be your yougoboy! I'm pulling for you and your wife. You're going to be a testimony, whatever your decision will be.

I always wanted to go to school to be a counselor, but I think God knows, I had limited experience. Now, probably like everyone here, I feel like an expert.

[This message edited by Wool94 at 7:20 PM, November 16th (Wednesday)]